Tankers would be better off getting an auto 2% defense. Crazy, maybe. Would anyone complain, sure. But it may be nice to see a defensive AT power on a defensive AT
Heck, I wouldn't complain, at least 2%Def helps with something...
It would help with countering the Unyielding DEF Debuff that, according to the apparent change of the Scrapper version to 3.75%, is never...
I repeat, NEVER...
Going away. 
Frankly... I'd rather have Gauntlet than Defiance or Vigilance. Defiance has only been useful to me pre-lvl15, or in the .4 seconds before I eat concrete. And Vigilance? If my team's dying, giving me an endurance discount never helped me a bit. It's not endurance I want during those times, it's speed. Sure, Gauntlet is near-useless in PvP... so what? We don't need an inherent, we were mostly granted one because everyone else got shinies. The villains were balanced around their inherents, we got them to keep us from feeling left out.
Victory: @Brimstone Bruce
Brimstone Bruce (lvl50 Stone/Fire Tanker) Broadside Bruce (lvl50 Shield/WM Tanker)
Ultionis (lvl50 Dark/Dark Defender) Cortex Crusher (lvl50 Mind/Kin Controller)
Patronox (lvl50 Kat/Dark Scrapper) Harbinger Mk.7 (lvl50 Bots/FF MM)
NightShift for Life.
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Frankly... I'd rather have Gauntlet than Defiance or Vigilance.
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You haven't thought things through. I'd take any version of Defiance, even a nerfed one, and run laughing all the way to the bank.
Good God...Ice would be such a scary....lmao....funny. Thanks for the laugh.
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Defender's Inherent is still useful in that it actually help with the endurance a little,
[/ QUOTE ] Vigilance is absolutely useless. When your team is dying, endurance will not help you keep them alive. Decreasing recharge will. Increasing the effect of your powers will. And even then, not always.
Sonic and FF are fire and forget. You buff your team, then you are, for the most part, a gimped blaster. Once you've handed out your buffs, you're done paying attention to your primary. More endurance may help keep the dps rolling, but it's not a whole heck of a lot of DPS, unless you're significantly buffed from another defender. Vigilance won't save your team.
TA spams all their debuffs at the beginning of a fight, then switches to blaster mode, just like ff/sonic. More endurance won't save the team.
Kinetics never worries about endurance in the first place. Stacking endurance on a toon with infinite endurance is just dumb.
Dark and Rad can drop into endurance conserve mode and not really worry about it. If the Rad/ has AM up, he doesn't have to worry about it at all. The Dark/ can lean on their pet pretty hard as well, and fluffy doesn't suffer from endurance problems.
Emp defenders get milage out of Vigilance if they're noob and six slot their heals for heal/rech, don't put slots into Fort or cast it on the wrong targets or got behind in rebuffing fort, and don't have Recovery Aura up. If all of that was true, they can benefit from Vigilance.
Storm gets milage out of it because Storm is so endurance heavy, and endurance can often be a reason for not using some of their abilities. Good for them. 
They get to be on the cool kid's team.
Vigilance is useful to people who don't take fitness though. Or for people who don't believe in slotting for endurance. But defenders, (other than storm/) more than any other powerset other than /regen scrappers, are the easiest to build to not suffer from endurance problems.
I can't believe you're talking about inherents, and didn't mention containment. It's the best inherent in CoH. Double damage, all the time? The only catch is that I have to do my job? Yes please.
Behind containment is scrappers and their crits. Then there's Gauntlet. A ways behind Gauntlet is Defiance, (Defiance gets PvP cool points) and if you pull out your dousing rod, you might be able to find the dead, rotting corpse of Vigilance floating somewhere in the bottom of the barrel.
The inherent powers on the hero side were tacked on and they feel tacked on, however would you rather have your "trademark" ability the one that all tanks have or be unique? Villians to me feel very cookie cutter, dominators are defined by there domination, A stalker with out his assasian strike is worthless from what I have seen(not saying that they are just my observation please no flames from stalker fans). Though a 2% def would rock.
I am a bit new to tanking but my understanding of it, is that the tank attacks produce extra agro. Would you really want to remove the taunt, eliminating punchvoke, for 2% defense?
If my understanding of this is correct, then I will take gauntlet.
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I am a bit new to tanking but my understanding of it, is that the tank attacks produce extra agro. Would you really want to remove the taunt, eliminating punchvoke, for 2% defense?
If my understanding of this is correct, then I will take gauntlet.
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yes, i would gladly trade gauntlet for the defense boost...any day of the week. at least the defense boost would be useful in solo play, team play and pvp. gauntlet, however, is not useful in solo or pvp play (how often to teams stand close enough together that gauntlet will affect more than one?) and only marginally useful in team play. yep, give me the defense boost over gauntlet.
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The reason that I think Gauntlet is useless is because it doesn't seem to help Tankers get more agro or anything...Maybe it does just a little but most Tanks already have Taunt to cover that.
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The whole point of Gauntlet was that with it, Tanks don't HAVE to have Taunt in order to maintain aggro.
If you take, slot, and spam Taunt, then you don't have as much use for Gauntlet. I still think that it has a use: Aggro cap is 16, while Taunt cap is 5 per use... when I charge in with Provoke (or Taunt), hit Tremor and Fault, I should have every mob in the spawn aggroed on me, and maintaining their aggro on me until the Gauntlet fades. Meanwhile, if I had only Taunt, what would happen is that I'd have 5 aggroed on me and stuck there, and the rest of the spawn would go to whoever did the most damage... and that would be to the Blasters behind me, not to me. So in terms of quickly grabbing an entire spawn, Gauntlet is definitely necessary. A Tank's AEs don't do so much damage that he can maintain aggro on an entire spawn with just Taunt, not unless you slot it up heavily, and even then it would require multiple uses of Taunt to get the entire spawn.
Most teams can't or won't wait for you to Taunt 3 times. Gauntlet allows you to hold aggro without having to wait for any power to recharge. That is extremely beneficial to a tank whose goal is to be the anvil upon which the enemies are smashed (see sig). Without Gauntlet, with a 5-mob limit on Taunt, we'd have serious aggro-management problems. Serious as in "we'll aggro a random 5 mobs from the spawn, the rest are your problem".
Bleh, I still don't see Gauntlet helping out much at all, they might as well get rid of it and not give us any Inherent so we can say "Hah! We can own without any Inherent!"
Guantlet? Rely on that? Riiiight, Cause with guantlet I can keep AV agro just fine, With Guantlet I can make sure Every Mob Stays on me, With Guantlet I can keep my team safe.
NOT.
Guantlet is completely useless if your fighting anything thats +2 or Above, simply because the taunting effect doesnt last at all, So Unless Im spamming Taunt and using footstomp every 10 Seconds Its damn hard to hold Agro.
And try to use Guantlet on an AV now and see how long they attack you before your squishy defender gets 1 shotted.
I absolutely rely on gauntlet and my aggro-auras to maintain aggro, and I've never had any complaints. I haven't had taunt in my build since about I4. I have fought AVs, large spawns, +3s and +4s, and GMs without losing aggro to my teammates.
You can indeed rely on it, without problem.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Guantlet is completely useless if your fighting anything thats +2 or Above, simply because the taunting effect doesnt last at all, So Unless Im spamming Taunt and using footstomp every 10 Seconds Its damn hard to hold Agro.
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But by using Footstomp, aren't you using Gauntlet to support your Taunt?
Point being, as we can all agree, we have what I like to call the Taunt Triangle. Taunt, Gauntlet, and auras, all of which combined, give the tanker the utmost in aggro management tools available from within the primary and secondary. Take one out, and while you still may be able to maintain maximum aggro in certain circumstances, never will you be as effective as if you had all three parts of the triangle.
Not saying it can't be done...
It's simply easier with all three components. Sound about right?
Part of the problem is there is a lot of confusion on what Gauntlet is. My understanding is that the AOE powers mentioned above, Auras, the Taunt Power, temp powers are *not* using Gauntlet at all. Only some single target attacks use gauntlet. Gauntlet is a *small* aoe taunt bubble around a single target when you hit the target and your power is one that makes use of it.
I just started a tank that is at level 28 and I can't say I'm sure I've ever seen Gauntlet do anything. Although for an Ice Tank with CE and Taunt, I don't really need it to. I really like the idea of an Inherent that gives a damage boost when you attack enemies who are agroed to a teammate.
Funny, I was taking for an 8 person team on a Moonfire TF this past weekend and caught myself saying, "Man I love punchvoke...err gauntlet".
I've found that the trick is to re-learn how to tank. This isn't the good ol' days when you could just spam taunt and provoke and have everyone's attention arround you. We could just stand still in those days and attack one target at a time. Tanking is a bit more interactive now. I find myself throwing taunt around to different aggro sets while running around attacking various targets to get their attention as well. You can see once you hit a baddie their attention does turn on you; it helps give your engaged team-mate a little breathing room.
So my advice is learn how to tank effectively (or at least what I consider effective) and you will find that gauntlet does work...to some degree.
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I absolutely rely on gauntlet and my aggro-auras to maintain aggro, and I've never had any complaints. I haven't had taunt in my build since about I4. I have fought AVs, large spawns, +3s and +4s, and GMs without losing aggro to my teammates.
You can indeed rely on it, without problem.
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Ahem, Aett, a slight problem. We are Ice/Ice tanks with the ultimate in agro grabbing. A thermonuclear device can't pull agro off us once we step into the range of a spawn. The only way we could possably loose agro is if we for some insane reason wanted to loose it. >.> The poor other powersets are not as lucky.
As for Gauntlet beeing useless? Come over here so I can thwack some sense into you with my mixing spoon! I have not used taunt since my first most formative days (back when I got it at level 4 I believe >.>
I can get all the agro I want with punchvoke, er gauntlet. I had an Inv brute standing beside a mob while a teammate tested her brawl indexes out. That was a brute with the inferior version of gauntlet. My Inv/SS's also never wanted for agro. Less agro maybe, but not more agro. <.<
If not for this possable agro bug Guantlet would be all a tank would ever need for agro management.
But without an aura on, do you notice the baddies around the one you attacked coming to attack you.?
The baddie you attacked is attacking you because your attack has a taunt on it, you did damage to the target, and you have the highest threat modifier on the team.
For me I always have CE on and so anything I am within 10 feet of is going to be agroed to me. It is *really* hard to see any effect of what I understand to be Gauntlet.
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And try to use Guantlet on an AV now and see how long they attack you before your squishy defender gets 1 shotted.
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My squishy defender usually gets one shotted by the AV's AoE, not because I lost agro, and the AV turned and attacked said squishy defender. Damn them for getting in close to give me RA! 
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Part of the problem is there is a lot of confusion on what Gauntlet is. My understanding is that the AOE powers mentioned above, Auras, the Taunt Power, temp powers are *not* using Gauntlet at all. Only some single target attacks use gauntlet. Gauntlet is a *small* aoe taunt bubble around a single target when you hit the target and your power is one that makes use of it.
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You're half wrong. Allow me to introduce you to the guide for Taunt.
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And try to use Guantlet on an AV now and see how long they attack you before your squishy defender gets 1 shotted.
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My squishy defender usually gets one shotted by the AV's AoE, not because I lost agro, and the AV turned and attacked said squishy defender. Damn them for getting in close to give me RA!
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Had that happen against the clock king last night. I had agroed him without even noticing he was near the spawn I had leaped into. 
I blame the sunset glare! Anyhow, I was doing my normal thing Contronking the spawn (oranges and greater to me) when I took a rather large hit. >.> I thought the Prince just got lucky and hit me at the same time as a pair of Tesla Knights <.< A couple of teamates face planted and the rest were talking about the Clock King. >.> Silly me, I thought they were discussing theory. >.< Well, I turned around and gave a a big 'DOH!' when I saw ol' Clocky pounding on my fellow icers head. It was about then that the defender (I don't think she was an empath) ran in to use one of her powers and was hit by a nuke. I take full blame for all those face plants. 
I should have looked before I agroed! 
Actually, I think evey single other member of the team did a face plant against Clocky.
Nice Guide. So wrong in the sense that the taunt the attack power puts on the directly attacked target is part of the Gauntlet system? Seems like a little bit of semantics since AOE powers, without Gauntlet, taunt the targets they hit.
Is the Gauntlet bubble taunt still working? I can't seem to notice it.
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Nice Guide. So wrong in the sense that the taunt the attack power puts on the directly attacked target is part of the Gauntlet system? Seems like a little bit of semantics since AOE powers, without Gauntlet, taunt the targets they hit.
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Wrong in you're thinking on Gauntlet. And it's not semantics, its lack of using terms the way the devs do. We need to learn to refer to things the way the devs do, not in our own special way. Half of understanding this game revolves around spending the time to do that.
The devs consider Gauntlet to be the Taunting ability.
This is separate and distinct from whether or not that Taunting ability is AoE.
From there if a power is single target then it's Taunt from Gauntlet is assigned an AoE.
And if that power is already AoE, then it's Taunt from Gauntlet is left alone.
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Is the Gauntlet bubble taunt still working? I can't seem to notice it.
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What is a Gauntlet bubble? And if it's what I think it is, then there was an entire thread devoted to there being an agro issue since I7, that may or may not be related to Taunting working properly, which would include Gauntlet.
I bet you if the Devs take away Gauntlet but still leave the Gauntlet icon on...no one would be able to tell that it's gone.
I know this subject had probably been brought up a lot but I still don't see the Devs saying anything to improve it or change it or whatnot (or maybe I haven't looked hard enough).
The reason that I think Gauntlet is useless is because it doesn't seem to help Tankers get more agro or anything...Maybe it does just a little but most Tanks already have Taunt to cover that. In PvP Gauntlet becomes obviously useless. Other Archetypes' Inherent are useful even though very little, but at least they are useful. Scrappers get Critical sometimes, Defender's Inherent is still useful in that it actually help with the endurance a little, and even Blaster's Defiance help somewhat when they're in the red HP...So why can't Tankers have an Inherent that actually does something?
Improving Gauntlet?: Maybe Gauntlet's Taunt can be a little bit stronger? And in PvP it can sometimes pull a Taunt on other players for maybe a split second or two?
Get rid of Gauntlet?: Get rid of that Inherent and come up with something else such as an one that would make a Tanker recharge a bit faster the longer he stays in combat?(like maybe 5% - 10% faster or something like that?) I knowthat this could be too unbalanced or something but it's the only thing I can think of right now =/
If you guys know how Gauntlet can be useful, please let me know so I can maybe adapt to it.
I just mainly want to see what other's opinion on this is. If you have any other ideas for a Tanker's Inherent feel free to post.