No numbers were given for Magnitude on any PPP. Or durations for Mez powers, either. Or Knockback magnitude. I'm very disappointed at the dirth of information given out for the PPP, considering that they are un'respec'able. How do they expect people to make an informed choice without *all* the information?
As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
Doesn't sound right to me...
My Defender's Dominate is somewhere around 10-14 second duration @ 50 and recharges in the standard 8... Once I started slotting it, I was chain-holding +2 bosses.
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Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
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Gotta love my selective hearing. 
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Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
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Gotta love my selective hearing.
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lol dont think he noticed that part but yes, it is indeed a letdown...wow mag2 for what recharge/end cost?
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As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
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Whatever happened to "The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the equivalent powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools)..." I don't have a level 40 villian to test with but from everything described on the boards and Castle's quote directly they are intended to have the same power.
Here's the question: How are the Villian Patron Pool Powers more "powerful" than Hero Ancillary Pool Powers?
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Here's the question: How are the Villian Patron Pool Powers more "powerful" than Hero Ancillary Pool Powers?
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Because the heroes haven't been nerfed enough yet?
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Truedusk - Human Rogue
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As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
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Whatever happened to "The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the equivalent powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools)..." I don't have a level 40 villian to test with but from everything described on the boards and Castle's quote directly they are intended to have the same power.
Here's the question: How are the Villian Patron Pool Powers more "powerful" than Hero Ancillary Pool Powers?
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Huh? Didn't you just read that post? He says "Expect the hold to be similar in power to the holds from the EPPs."
Yeah, those holds are weak, but you're treading into foreign territory. That seems to be the norm.
And actually, if you check out the Ghost Widow PPP thread, one guy ran the numbers, did the math, and found her ranged Gloom-like attack IS more powerful than the exact same EPP on the Hero side. It's got a 5% boost to damage. A Defender with Gloom is better off, but a Brute is better with Gloom than a Tanker (or whatever it was), albeit by a very small margin.
Don't expect us to be blowing the heroes out of the water, but most of the numbers I'm seeing suggests we do, in fact, have an advantage.
As long as it works on Stormies, I'm cool with it having a duration of only 1 second.
Hold
Placate
AS
em evillaugh
It takes MAG3 to affect a LT, not MAG2.
You can say that LTs are "Mag2" but that means that it requires MAG3 to exceed their threshold.
An easy way to verify:
Minions either require Mag1 or Mag2 (depending on how you look at it)
Oppressive Gloom will only affect Minions, but TWO Oppressive Gloom users will affect BOSSES.
If OG is mag1, then the two together equal MAG2 and will NOT affect a boss.
If OG is Mag2, then the two together equal MAG4 and that WILL affect a BOSS.
Since two OGs WILL affect a boss, we can rest assured that the 2nd is correct.
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As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
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I believe if it affects LTs but not Bosses, that makes it Mag3 instead of Mag2.
My rationale for this goes back to when thunder kick's disorient was changed from a 100% mag-something-that-wouldn't-disorient-anything, to a 20% mag-something-that-would-disorient-minions. Clearly, there had to exist a magnitude that wouldn't affect minions, but was non-zero. So I assume mag 1 doesn't affect minions, mag 2 does, mag 3 LTs, mag 4 bosses, assuming none of them have specific protection against the mez in question.
Also, the Geko Mez Post stated that:
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You have a base value to each Mez/status effects of -1. If that number goes over 0, you are mezed (Hold, Sleep, whatever).
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This sounds like a Mag1 mez doesn't do anything: it doesn't increase mag *over* zero - at least for players without any mez protection. I'm assuming that's also what minion critters are.
If I'm wrong, I hope Castle appropriately thwacks this post.
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Thanks for clearing up the "Mag" rating system for me. Whatever the value is, it's enough for Lt.s but not bosses.
While I said it is a "let down," I will still take APP/PPP holds whenever I can. They're great skills that are markedly sperated from controller equivalents.
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As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
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Since we're still debating this and other details, why don't we just get the real, accurate numbers for all powers. It would really help everyone involved, including some of us who are testing to know the values in order to accurately evaluate if the game is working correctly and let us adjudicate which Patron Power is more conducive to our characters needs?
The fact that such values such as resistance percentages and magnitude are unavailable is really inefficient to the testing process for players. We really do not know what is "working as intended". In addition, we were told that the Patron Power numbers would be available, now we discover that important details are being left unknown.
I therefore humbly ask that such details be made available to the playerbase. The magnitude of a hold is supremely important in an evaluation process. We appreciate all the hard work that is being done; however, to reveal only some power details without giving others is like selling a car to a customer and asking him to take it without being given the percentage of the financing and only revealing the monthly payment.
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As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
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Anyone know if I attempt to stack GW's hold with Petrifying Gaze will it hold a boss as long as both hold effects are in place? If not, no big deal. I love holds, I'll be able to shut down long bow spec ops even better (god I hate those...)
Man, even if it isn't that super of a hold...it sure is awesome looking. Very rarely will I look at a power and say "Meh, it's not all that powerful, but look at the pretty effect! OOH! AAH!" This one had me from the word go.
Regards,
Captain Head Explody
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As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds about right, actually.
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Anyone know if I attempt to stack GW's hold with Petrifying Gaze will it hold a boss as long as both hold effects are in place? If not, no big deal. I love holds, I'll be able to shut down long bow spec ops even better (god I hate those...)
Man, even if it isn't that super of a hold...it sure is awesome looking. Very rarely will I look at a power and say "Meh, it's not all that powerful, but look at the pretty effect! OOH! AAH!" This one had me from the word go.
Regards,
Captain Head Explody
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Should.
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I think that as long as your total Magnintude of stacked holds is greater than the targets resistance, a "hold effect" will occur.
A few points:
1- Whatever hold has the shortest duration is often the limiting factor- whether it's cast first OR second (or third and so forth). If you are casting two holds to stack Mag on a boss, or a player in PvP, it is often better to lead with the hold that has a higher duration, since the weaker hold will be cast several seconds later.
2- If you have to stack holds, do it immediately after the first was cast. If you waste several seconds in attacking between holds the first hold's duration will largely be wasted.
I'm not sure exacylt how this works in PvP regarding toggles and click powers. But it seems that in PvE Bosses and Lts always have their Mag resistance active, and as soon as your mag is dropped below their resistance point the "hold" status effect will end. This might be true for clickies like Practiced Brawler, which I suppose is why they are often preferred in PvP.
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I think that as long as your total Magnintude of stacked holds is greater than the targets resistance, a "hold effect" will occur.
A few points:
1- Whatever hold has the shortest duration is often the limiting factor- whether it's cast first OR second (or third and so forth). If you are casting two holds to stack Mag on a boss, or a player in PvP, it is often better to lead with the hold that has a higher duration, since the weaker hold will be cast several seconds later.
2- If you have to stack holds, do it immediately after the first was cast. If you waste several seconds in attacking between holds the first hold's duration will largely be wasted.
I'm not sure exacylt how this works in PvP regarding toggles and click powers. But it seems that in PvE Bosses and Lts always have their Mag resistance active, and as soon as your mag is dropped below their resistance point the "hold" status effect will end. This might be true for clickies like Practiced Brawler, which I suppose is why they are often preferred in PvP.
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The basic minion/lt/boss mez resistance is an auto.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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I think that as long as your total Magnintude of stacked holds is greater than the targets resistance, a "hold effect" will occur.
A few points:
1- Whatever hold has the shortest duration is often the limiting factor- whether it's cast first OR second (or third and so forth). If you are casting two holds to stack Mag on a boss, or a player in PvP, it is often better to lead with the hold that has a higher duration, since the weaker hold will be cast several seconds later.
2- If you have to stack holds, do it immediately after the first was cast. If you waste several seconds in attacking between holds the first hold's duration will largely be wasted.
I'm not sure exacylt how this works in PvP regarding toggles and click powers. But it seems that in PvE Bosses and Lts always have their Mag resistance active, and as soon as your mag is dropped below their resistance point the "hold" status effect will end. This might be true for clickies like Practiced Brawler, which I suppose is why they are often preferred in PvP.
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The basic minion/lt/boss mez resistance is an auto.
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Since we're talking about the technical details, technically this is boss mez protection magnitude not resistance. Resistance is the term used to describe the ability to shake off mez faster than normal. For example, Practiced Brawler gives me both enhanced mez protection (just one hold won't do anything) and enhanced mez resistance (that 20 second hold of yours? Lasts about 2 seconds on me.)
Things like Accelerate Metabolism, Health, and Aid Self, all convey mez resistance without any mez protection (to the best of my knowledge) so resistance and protection are not synonymous, nor do they always come together.
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As far as magnitude goes, expect it to be exactly the same as Tanker APPs such as Block of Ice, Stone Prison, etc..
Those have a hold magnitude that is able to work on LTs but not Bosses, making it Mag2 I believe. Recharge will likely be 30+ seconds, and duration will be around 8-10 seconds.
Ranged holds are possibly the most nerfed APP crossover skill, and I think that it will be the same for PPPs.
If I'm wrong about mag and recharge/durtation then GW's hold will indeed be an amazing skill for stalkers. Otherwise, the holds are a bit of a let down.
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Sounds about right, actually.
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So a corruptor or mastermind who gets Mag3 holds in his primary or secondary will have access to an even worse hold in his patron pool? It's hardly a crossover skill for tthem.
Actaully, if you only have one hold in your primary/secondary, then getting a second in your PPP/APP is actually a big boon. It means holding (with slotting perma-holding) bosses that you were previously unable to control. My Ice Melee tanker took Char from the pools and it's been a huge help in nullifying bosses, and frankly bosses are the targets you really want held most of the time.
Yes, I understand that it is nice if you have another hold to stack it with but my point is that holds are not a crossover skill for every AT. Giving a corruptor or a mastermind a Mag2 hold in their PPP's that recharges in 32 seconds would be like giving brutes a 2.5% smashing/lethal resistance passive in their PPP's.
I understand that these powers are not totally horrible in their current state but I do believe they could be buffed and made more appealing to the players without causing any balance issues. Introducing new powers in a slightly weakened state and then buffing them if possible at a later date is always better than giving us something too good then ripping apart but I doubt that is the developers intentions here.
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Yes, I understand that it is nice if you have another hold to stack it with but my point is that holds are not a crossover skill for every AT. Giving a corruptor or a mastermind a Mag2 hold in their PPP's that recharges in 32 seconds would be like giving brutes a 2.5% smashing/lethal resistance passive in their PPP's.
I understand that these powers are not totally horrible in their current state but I do believe they could be buffed and made more appealing to the players without causing any balance issues. Introducing new powers in a slightly weakened state and then buffing them if possible at a later date is always better than giving us something too good then ripping apart but I doubt that is the developers intentions here.
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The APPs/PPPs can hold a lieutenant in one shot. That makes them MAG 3 which is equivalent to controller holds (with the exception that a controller can occasionally land a "critical" hold that will be MAG 4). It takes a MAG 4 hold to hold a boss.
My point here is that the strength of the holds are not worse than other holds in the game. I suppose people can challenge and debate the recharge values on them, but I don't think they want these pool powers making someone better than a controller.
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Ok, so it is Mag3 then. I was thinking it was Mag2 since one of the posters above said it will be Mag2 and Castle said he was right.
Just wondering if the numbers have been given as to the magnitute of the Ghost Widow hold,Soul Storm.
Quick follow-up question Mr. President: Would it be worth dropping Eagle's Claw for the power?