on the list of accolade requirements, they all have this funky "if known" comment. It would be really helpful to label which of those lists are complete and which ones still need some input. For example, is there anyone with the 4 badges listed for Megalomaniac who still lacks the accolade?
That will just help us know where to focus future analysis.
Also of use:
Minimum levels for accolades based on the badges listed...
Megalomaniac - 40 (to get the RV explore badge)
High Pain Threshold - 10 (to get debt)
Demonic - 1
Task Force Commander - 35 (to run Numina TF)
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To rehash the previous discussions:
1. The heroes get the equivalent accolade about 10-15 levels earlier, a common trend.
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I have yet to see one villian accolade that requires you to run 6 task forces. The Villian equivalent to Task Force Commander, Invader, is for getting the 9 mayhem mission exploration badges, so while heroes must wait until lvl 35 and spend at least 18 hours towards this badge, villians can spend an hour, jump into 9 mayhem mission with a lvl 45 backer and earn it. Yes many of the villian badges can't be earned earlier than heroes, but the effort to earn them is far less (so far as we've seen)
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Perhaps the Invader accolade should also include the Captain badge, just to prevent this kind of powereleveling to lackeys. I can see SGs offering a Magical Mayhem Tour as part of their recruiting package.
6 TFs isn't really that bad with the power you have from slots when you exemp as a 40. It's not much more time per TF than any hunt badge. Is 6 overkill? eh... I think the only problem here is that it's very unfriendly to people who solo.
However, this is about ONE Accolade that's easier for Villains. As a whole, the villain ones are much harder to get, and come at much higher levels. This strikes me as unfair, particularly when battling for Siren's Call.
Upon further analysis regarding levels...
Villains have not managed to unlock equivalencies of these 3, listed here with the minimum level they exist for Heroes...
Portal Jockey - 1
Atlas - 7
Geas - 30
Though I've yet to see a level 1 with Portal Jockey, I'm sure someone out there has done it just to do it once. But I can see people making a case that they're an effective SK in a mission if they have SOs, so let's say this is unlockable by 22. That's still in time to use the accolade in Siren's Call, just like the other 2. So that's 3 extra powers heroes get to use in battling for Siren's Call.
Now let's look at the rest, I'll list Hero/Villain levels.
Mez Boost (Vanguard/Megalo) - 40 / 40
This is the only one I've found that's completely even as far as minimum possible level.
Def Boost (Archmage/Demonic) - 21 / 1
5% HP (TF Comm/Invader) - 35 / 1
Again, 1 is not too practical. Anyone want to suggest a level where most people actually unlock these powers?
From a Siren's POV, though, it seems the current limit is fair on the Def boost, and villains win on the 5% HP. So far 3 in favor for heroes, 1 for villains, 1 even.
but... wait... 5% HP is half of Portal Jockey. So villain's DON'T actually get anything, it's more like 2.5 in favor of the heroes.
10% HP (Phalanx/HighPain) - 24 / ???
I really don't know what level to use. You could do this at 10 if you were obsessive. (get debt, exemp, repeat.) How quickly can you get the debt badge if you perma-debt starting at 10? Would it be a fair average to assume half your level is in debt for an average player? What would that calculate to? Anyone know where I can find an XP table?
Crey Pistol / Immobilizer - 33 / ???
I don't think we have enough to judge this one yet.
and if anyone wants to replace there numbers with practical levels for unlocking, let's consider that. But it seems the heroes will get a lot more edge in SC, and probably in Warburg with the exemplar rules.
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on the list of accolade requirements, they all have this funky "if known" comment. It would be really helpful to label which of those lists are complete and which ones still need some input. For example, is there anyone with the 4 badges listed for Megalomaniac who still lacks the accolade?
That will just help us know where to focus future analysis.
Also of use:
Minimum levels for accolades based on the badges listed...
Megalomaniac - 40 (to get the RV explore badge)
High Pain Threshold - 10 (to get debt)
Demonic - 1
Task Force Commander - 35 (to run Numina TF)
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No way does HPT only require level 10. You need the Bad Luck mission badge from a 30-35 Contact, the Ganbuster badge from killing Marcone bosses, Technofreak, Locked and loaded, Freak of Nature, and then you need the Deathless badge, which requires you to pay back 5 million debt. You only get 100 debt per death at level 10, I believe, so unless you and a friend to malefactor with you have no lives you'll have to spend the time leveling to 30 in permadebt to get it.
yes, but people have always assumed unlimited Sidekicking ability when talking about minimum accolade levels. You can get someone in your SG to kill mobs for you while you stay at the ferry, or invite you to their level 35 mission, or teleport you to the top of Atlas for the badge. Atlas is minimum 7, if you get someone to help you kill Vampyri. It's usually 20, so you can get into Striga and get someone to kill Vamps for you there. It's really like 27 if you have to kill the Vamps yourself, but everyone I know always brings out a 50 to kill greys to help all their friends.
so the minimum is 10. but what's a practical level for HPT?
if you perma-debt with no exemping, 5 million takes you from level 10 to about half way in level 36.
if you assume half your level is in debt, it will take you until just shy of level 40.
though I seem to recall the number 2 million instead of 5 million. That would make the levels 32 with permadebt and 36 with half-debt.
and that assumes the total XP chart I found is correct.
Anyways... staying on topic... I wonder what the minumum level for this badge SHOULD be. Should it be possible for level 30s to go chasing this in hopes of using it in Siren's Call? And what if you're a good player who doesn't die, but you want this accolade? Do you kill yourself, and delay your leveling, at the levels where content really doesn't cover all the needed XP already? Or do you wait for 50, when the debt won't matter, and then never get to use the accolade on the way up to 50?
remember, for comparison, Phalanx can be unlocked at 24. Yes, you can't kill a single Fake Nemesis with your 24 - that doesn't stop people. Should HPT require enough debt to take you to the high 30's? That's the issue - is the unlocking level fair to Villains when you look at the hero equivalents?
Is the level fair at all, considering some people won't get the debt until the high 40s?
I have to assume that this has already been mentioned, but it is just plain silly to require Deathless as an accolade. I took pride in the fact that I was only rarely defeated in my run from 1-40, and I surely don't want to be defeated from 41-50. I was not running easy missions either - I usually had my difficulty settings up to level 3 or higher. In order to get this badge, I am going to have to intentionally die, just to get debt to repay so I can earn this badge. What kind of requirement is that? Surely, it would make more sense to base this on how much damage you have taken, for instance.
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I have to assume that this has already been mentioned, but it is just plain silly to require Deathless as an accolade. I took pride in the fact that I was only rarely defeated in my run from 1-40, and I surely don't want to be defeated from 41-50. I was not running easy missions either - I usually had my difficulty settings up to level 3 or higher. In order to get this badge, I am going to have to intentionally die, just to get debt to repay so I can earn this badge. What kind of requirement is that? Surely, it would make more sense to base this on how much damage you have taken, for instance.
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Making this based on a damage taken badge would make a lot more sense, I agree. I also don't like to die, so going for this badge is counterintuitive to my nature and is a complete grind.
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Surely, it would make more sense to base this on how much damage you have taken, for instance.
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That would also make sense in saying "look, I have a high pain threshold!"
That badge can still be helped along by a higher level (they can LK you so you can take more damage per hit), but you really can't have a high level do all the work for you like they can with hunt badges. This requires *playing the game* just as much as a debt badge, but without the downsides of a badge of shame and of delaying leveling.
When do most people earn Unbreakable? I tend to see it in the upper 30s at the latest. That would be a fine level to expect to get this accolade.
Well I just earned Deathless on my level 37 plant/thorn Dominator and I haven't been trying for it. I solo at Villainous and I don't have a bad build although it's not a perfectly optimal build either. That might be more a commentary on Dominators than anything else, but hopefully it does put some context on when the accolade is achievable. In fact if issue 7 went live today I'd be awarded the accolade.
Personally it looks to me like this is a balancing measure for people with weak builds or who are otherwise having trouble with the game. I don't know if the boost is big enough to matter but that's the impression I get. Changing to the damage badge would be a really bad idea because defense-based builds take less damage than resistance-based builds, and damage taken is not really a measure of difficulty.
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Well I just earned Deathless on my level 37 plant/thorn Dominator ...
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Do you have Unbreakable yet on that character?
No. I'd estimate I'm between 2 and 2.5 million damage total on that badge. I don't expect to see the 4th damage badge for a long, long time. I only have 860-odd HP at level 37 so it doesn't take much to kill me. An in-mission defeat gives me 10,500XP of debt if I remember rightly.
then maybe this indicates the third damage badge is a good replacement for the debt badge. do you have that?
The idea here is to suggest to the Devs a replacement badge requirement that is earned at about the same character level for the "average" players, but the replacement badge will keep people happy if they avoid debt.
Yes, I have the third badge. Like I said, 2 to 2.5 million total. Not sure when I picked it up, maybe the late twenties?
Well I think a debt badge is better because like I said this strikes me a compensatory measure more than anything. If you want to scale it back, sure, but I think going to damage badges would be tricky. For example I think I was in the late 30s before I picked up even the third damage badge on my SR scrapper (it was a long time ago, I took a break at level 38 around issue 4 and only recently came back to make 50) and never made the 4th badge so I'd imagine defense-based stalkers and brutes would be in the same boat.
It really comes down to what the devs are trying to achieve with this badge. Most of the accolades have a specific goal and/or are oriented towards a specific subset of players.
Yea, on my Brute, I had only the 2nd debt badge. When I heard the 4th debt badge was required, I suicided on Thorn Isle to max debt a number of times and worked it all off till I got the 4th one. Was hard working it all off, but also a little ridiculous.
Just a note, but a lot of these level based concerns would go away if accolade powers were kept when exemping.
As is, organized pvp based groups will get the appropriate accolades for their hardcore pvp toons at the absolute smallest level.
Those groups will have a permanent advantage over people that didn't develop those types of contacts until much later in the game.
Not only would the gap between the Have and the Have Nots be shrunk if we kept accolade powers exemping, it would reduce the number of silly comparisons between heroes and villians based on levels badges were gained at.
Agree with you 100%.
On an interesting note, the TF Commander badge has a placeholder & progress bar, it seems. Cool.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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how do you get this badge? it sounds familiar
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It's an exploration badge that's halfway up Recluse's tower in Grandville. Can't remember the coordinates off the top of my head, but if you go straight up from the base portal, you'll hit it no problem.
So yes, it seems to require some sort of flight, but I haven't searched too hard for another way up there, since my Superspeeder still has half an hour on her Sky Raider jetpack so I personally didn't have to worry about that.
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Found it...coordinates for Master of the Airwaves badge are 2726.2, 734.3, 1045.2. Fly straight up from the door leading into the room with the statues of the villians. There is a ledge just below the top of the building on that side. That's where the badge is....Now to watch some television.
'Lo, there do I see my father.
'Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers.
'Lo, there do I see the line of my people, back to the beginning.
'Lo, they do call to me.
They bid me take my place among them.
In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live forever.
I have several problems with the Deathless badge requirements.
- First and foremost is the fact that it's unenjoyable. I actually LIKE working on the defeat-mob achievement badges. Dying intentionally so you can work up enough debt is not my idea of fun.
- The badge does not reward good gameplay, rather the reverse
- Any claim that this is done to prevent farming the badge, are only true to a certain extent. To farm debt intentionally only becomes rewarding at higher levels, true, but it's also far easier for a paid service to farm it than the kill-mobs ones (yes, i've seen the adds for the Atlas Medaillon and other hero accolades). As for high levels in a SG/VG helping lower levels get the kill badges - uhm.. wasn't there this idea of stimulating people to be social? I don't really see the harm in it. If you want level restrictions to be in place (in which case, PLEASE the same ones the heroes have) then do it by requiring a mission badge only the correct level players have access to. Location badges in the pvp zones come to mind.
Linna
Matt Miller: The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the �equivalent� powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character.
I haven't been able to see anywhere whether the Rocketman badge has been fixed in I7 - currently, you need 10 nukes to earn it, and my understanding is that it should be 5.
If it has been fixed, will it retroactively award the badge if you have already gathered 5 or more nukes?
Thanks, my search-fu doth sucketh.
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- Any claim that this is done to prevent farming the badge, are only true to a certain extent. To farm debt intentionally only becomes rewarding at higher levels, true, but it's also far easier for a paid service to farm it than the kill-mobs ones (yes, i've seen the adds for the Atlas Medaillon and other hero accolades). As for high levels in a SG/VG helping lower levels get the kill badges - uhm.. wasn't there this idea of stimulating people to be social? I don't really see the harm in it. If you want level restrictions to be in place (in which case, PLEASE the same ones the heroes have) then do it by requiring a mission badge only the correct level players have access to. Location badges in the pvp zones come to mind.
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There's a fine balance between being able to help someone with a badge, and being able to do it for them. Unfortunately, however, the badge system is set up that you can kill grey-cons and get credit.
What I see with the CoV accolades is not so much a need to make every accolade require a level, but a requirement of *playing*. Doing a SF is a good example, but it's not solo-friendly. Debt would seem to be a good way to enforce playing over PLing, but has the other problems you list. Taking damage, mentoring, being held - those all can be achieved with some kind of grind, but are at least a step up from having someone kill grey-cons for you. And in the case of those grinds, each one could eventually be addressed with a code change if needed. (eg, mentoring already has some limit so you can't sit innactive for 10 hours, tweak this to include sitting in a CoT damage crystal.) (course, mentoring isn't solo-friendly and may be problematic for that reason.)
anyways, yeah, debt has its problems. I can see why it would be chosen, but the bad outweighs the good here.
Why not just make every accolade have a level requirement? This can sort of be done with hazard zone levels, but that's not possible in CoV. Forcing people into a PvP zone for an accolade will be seen as a problem for some players who absolutely hate PvP. Is that worth the brief exposure to PKers?
So why not just have every accolade directly have a level requirement? You need this set of badges AND need to be level 36 or whatever. I guess you could use the level 30 and level 40 badges if you needed to, but 10 level steps may not be the best option.
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- Any claim that this is done to prevent farming the badge, are only true to a certain extent. To farm debt intentionally only becomes rewarding at higher levels, true, but it's also far easier for a paid service to farm it than the kill-mobs ones (yes, i've seen the adds for the Atlas Medaillon and other hero accolades). As for high levels in a SG/VG helping lower levels get the kill badges - uhm.. wasn't there this idea of stimulating people to be social? I don't really see the harm in it. If you want level restrictions to be in place (in which case, PLEASE the same ones the heroes have) then do it by requiring a mission badge only the correct level players have access to. Location badges in the pvp zones come to mind.
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There's a fine balance between being able to help someone with a badge, and being able to do it for them. Unfortunately, however, the badge system is set up that you can kill grey-cons and get credit.
What I see with the CoV accolades is not so much a need to make every accolade require a level, but a requirement of *playing*. Doing a SF is a good example, but it's not solo-friendly. Debt would seem to be a good way to enforce playing over PLing, but has the other problems you list. Taking damage, mentoring, being held - those all can be achieved with some kind of grind, but are at least a step up from having someone kill grey-cons for you. And in the case of those grinds, each one could eventually be addressed with a code change if needed. (eg, mentoring already has some limit so you can't sit innactive for 10 hours, tweak this to include sitting in a CoT damage crystal.) (course, mentoring isn't solo-friendly and may be problematic for that reason.)
anyways, yeah, debt has its problems. I can see why it would be chosen, but the bad outweighs the good here.
Why not just make every accolade have a level requirement? This can sort of be done with hazard zone levels, but that's not possible in CoV. Forcing people into a PvP zone for an accolade will be seen as a problem for some players who absolutely hate PvP. Is that worth the brief exposure to PKers?
So why not just have every accolade directly have a level requirement? You need this set of badges AND need to be level 36 or whatever. I guess you could use the level 30 and level 40 badges if you needed to, but 10 level steps may not be the best option.
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Two comments to that:
- if the badge were inside the relatively safe pvp zone entrance, the non-pvp players could not really object, and the level issue would be solved
- not giving credit for grey cons would be the worst idea ever. I only got into badge hunting after level 40, and did not even KNOW about accolades untill then. Badge hunting is a part of the game I really like, ESPECIALLY in the hours when I cannot find a team. Making grey-cons not register, would deny me something I enjoy in the game, and exemplaring down is NOT the answer for me.
I understand your dislike for the team farming of grey con mobs, but I insist that it IS a team activity, and that it is a good solution for those who simply cannot do those mobs at even con, either through lack of teaming opportunities or through general weakness of their AT or a combination of both.
Even for non-badge mobs, I would be HORRIFIED if I did not get kill credit for grey cons on my lvl 16 illusion troller (2 attacks... hah), for instance. It's the only way I can get some street hunting missions done.
I think you should really make the consideration if it truly disadvantages anyone that people get badges or accolades or kill credit in general for killing grey cons, either solo or in team. In my opinion, changing the current situation would cause a lot of harm and would not add anything extra to the game for those who actually play it.
Linna
Matt Miller: The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the �equivalent� powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character.
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- if the badge were inside the relatively safe pvp zone entrance, the non-pvp players could not really object, and the level issue would be solved
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You might think that, and I might think that, but apparently there was enough fuss from the community at large about talking to a contact in that same safe area that they made new out-of-zone contacts.
Fixing a hard level requirement would achieve the same result without having to make a new explore badge. It can also be done at any level, not just the zone levels. It would require very little code if they added a new invisible badge for hitting that level.
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- not giving credit for grey cons would be the worst idea ever. I only got into badge hunting after level 40, and did not even KNOW about accolades untill then. Badge hunting is a part of the game I really like, ESPECIALLY in the hours when I cannot find a team. Making grey-cons not register, would deny me something I enjoy in the game, and exemplaring down is NOT the answer for me.
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oh no, I'm not saying that has to be fixed at all. sometimes the only way to get a badge is to hunt greys.
I'm just saying it seems the Devs have imposed a requirement on each accolade that you can't farm greys for at any point. eg, Crystal Keeper and Deathless.
Let me tangent a moment. There may be a way to allow credit for greys but not credit for someone doing it for you. Require that you're within XP range on the team - similar to how it decides to award SOs for AV defeats - not XP range of the target. I'll use a 40 Fake Nemesis kill as an example. If you're 35 and a 50 teammate kills them, you get nothing. If you're a 35, you SK up to 49 and the 50 kills them, you get credit since you're within range of the team. If you kill them solo at level 49, you get credit, of course. The current problem isn't so much killing greys, as it is having a 50 kill greys for 7 people who sit at the ferry - this suggestion would solve that by having the 50 only help 1 person at a time, and that person has to tag along in SK range where they'll probably end up firing off a shot or two.
But that's neither here nor there. The system as it currently exists allows people to earn badges for other people. It seems that all of us are now being hit with harder accolade requirements because some people get 50 SG friends to earn their accolades for them. The whole point of this chain of thought, however, was that Deathless was going a bit too far along that design and it's too much harder.
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Thank you, developers, for reading the feedback and adjusting the TV's unlock requirement.
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Thank you, Devs, for the TV change. This has prevented a lot of SG headaches.
(I've been on vacation, if people wonder how I can be so vocal about this one day and then unresponsive to the change.) 
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No thank you for the change. I would rather have the infamy badge than a cheesy exploration. At lvl 45-50 the contact is never out-leveled and worst case scenario make it the Second infamy badge.
After all change the TV then you might as well change Doc Buzzsaw as well since its easier to outlevel him before you get 25 over the prestige issue.
I was looking forward to the time it would have taken me to earn the infamy to unlock this contact. It would have been an achievement. Now its just something anyone can do while twiddling their thumbs.
This game is not about making things easier for people otherwise you wouldn't have setup the "forced teaming" for AV's and such.
Give us back the infamy badge requirement.
Hell no don't bring back the inf. requirement. Statesmen has stated multiple times that he wants the game enjoyable, and things achievable for the casual gamer as well as the hard core gamer.
I knew this day would come. When people complained about how 'easy' this or that badge was..and it should be harder..or as I call it 'power-badging' when higher lvl toons help lower lvl ones get high lvl hunt badges. Who gives a rats [censored]? Worry about somthing important, and let people enjoy their game. If somone gets a badge before you, it does not impact your game play. 'oh what about the accolades that give +end and HP in PvP, they have an unfair advantage!' What a joke..the bonus is so small it makes no difference.
Quit trying to be elitist jerks and let people have their fun. Its a badge nothing more.
The Harpers
It puts the lotion on it's skin or it gets the hose again!
Don't forget to help control the Furry population; have your Furry spayed or neutered!
Kellen Wolf/Claw/SR(Scrapper)/ protector
Si'Nifay/Electric/Fire(Blaster)/ protector
Thank you, Devs, for the TV change. This has prevented a lot of SG headaches.
(I've been on vacation, if people wonder how I can be so vocal about this one day and then unresponsive to the change.)