Official Thread for Recluses Victory: PvP Zone
By
Adam7,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:15 in Developers' Corner
Id rather killed by Black Widow then a one hit Statesman...
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I hope that Ghost Widows PPP is just like hers i would be able to cut threw alot of heros that it would acttually kinda tone the balance between heros and villains
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Don't we WISH. That level of Magnitude is just plain crazy. Now, a Mag4 (or heck, 5) would be great....but getting an AV's TRUE signature attack....eesh, you have any idea how much gripe there'd be?
funny, i was having such a hard time holding anything in a PvP zone at all, stealth did me no good, arctic air seemed to have no effect at all, and a stalker sat still for 2 minutes while i tried to hit him with a hold, i couldn't even get a hit in, i have every hold i have 2-3 slotted for acc, and i missed with everything i had, there was no elude/mog style power running either... i am very turned off to PvP with my controller, it's seems like the CoV equivelents of CoH powers work alot better... the only thing that the heroes have going for them right now is numbers
vills dont get force mastery, psi mastery, body mastery, etc
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the only thing that the heroes have going for them right now is numbers
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...and better burst damage, better control, 3 of the top 4 hitpoint ATs, two buff sets, stronger buffs and unresistable debuffs, critical holds, 3x containment damage, FA, FoN, IW.
AND numbers.
Finally got in there and wanted to add my thoughts. First off, even though I usually avoid PvP, this zone is too good to pass up. The zone changes are great, and the whole thing was just incredibly fun. Even when i got mobbed by 12 villains, I really didn't mind. There are still some issues, as it took 14 of us working together to almost kill Black Scorpion, then of course the zone reverts. Glad that part is fixed, although they might want to look at the AV difficulty in here. Not as much so as in missions, but maybe cut it back a bit. Overall, had a tremendous time. Agree, the base camping is an issue, but not any more so than in other zones, and I am sure that once it hits live this will lessen. Thanks devs for a job well done.
I'm not sure When I'll have time to test this, so could someone answer a curiosity for me?
4 of 5 Villains PPPs contain a ranged Hold/Immob.... How is this affecting Blasters and Defenders? I ask b/c In general... The Devs' design mantra has always been "No AT is absolutely required for any team"... But if PvP becomes even more of a Mez-fest, then doesn't that make Empathy Defenders/Controllers required on all teams? We know Tanks and Scrappers can't absorbe mezzes, let alone find room to take Stimulant for their squishy Teammates so what exactly is the equalizer here? ...Other than a tray full of Break-frees I mean.
IE: Are Blasters and Defenders in ALL Team Make-Ups maintaining the same level of success they have in other zones and the Arena?
when the villains level up enough to get those powers we'll get back to you
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I'm not sure When I'll have time to test this, so could someone answer a curiosity for me?
4 of 5 Villains PPPs contain a ranged Hold/Immob.... How is this affecting Blasters and Defenders? I ask b/c In general... The Devs' design mantra has always been "No AT is absolutely required for any team"... But if PvP becomes even more of a Mez-fest, then doesn't that make Empathy Defenders/Controllers required on all teams? We know Tanks and Scrappers can't absorbe mezzes, let alone find room to take Stimulant for their squishy Teammates so what exactly is the equalizer here? ...Other than a tray full of Break-frees I mean.
IE: Are Blasters and Defenders in ALL Team Make-Ups maintaining the same level of success they have in other zones and the Arena?
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Hard to say right now since alot of villains are still lvl 40 and dont have access to their Patron Powers yet. Honestly I dont see that many Defenders, Blasters or Trollers at all. The hero side has been like 60%+ Scrappers in my experience. In fact I've seen more Tanks than defenders (and even Blasters) at times. Of all hero ATs I see Defenders the least.
Defenders still seem to be the most vulnerable though. ALOT of Blasters have been hiding in PFF and only attacking when Aim+BU have recharged, so its hard to say if they're really being affected by mezzes. Scrappers walk all over pretty much any villain AT that doesnt have a Corrupter buddy. Tanks are unkillable without debuffs.
If they devs really said that "no AT should be required for teams," in the context of pvp, then I beg to disagree. If anything its even worse for villains than heroes since alot of vills are very reliant on Corrupters. There's really no subsitute for Corrupter buffs IMHO. Where you can arguably substitute a Defender/Troller for buffs & debuffs for heroes, you can't substitute a Corrupter for any other villain AT.
About time I added my two cents...
1. First off I want to hand it to Cryptic for making a kick-[censored] PvP zone that puts every other zone PvE or PvP, to shame, NICE WORK. BUT there are a couple things...you know quid pro quos, etc...
2. The Signature Heroes and Arch-Villains are sweet, but the ones with defense and resistance are WAY off the walls, they need a major debuff towards their resistance and defense powers, and powers like Moment of Glory, Elude, Unstoppable, etc should have a MUCH longer recharge, currently once Captain Mako's health gets low he activated Moment of Glory and heals to full HP, by the time he is usually brought back down it has recharged and he is stuck in a cycle of never-ending battles.
3. Scrapper/Blaster holds need a decrease on their hold times, giving such hard-hitting Archetypes completely gimps hold resistance-less, squishy types like corrupters and dominators. AT least give them the 32 second recharge crap we get...
4. When the zone reverses it resets the skin/graphics to the hero ones, even if the villains controlled it last, is this a bug, or working as intended, if it's the later of the two then I think it should be re-thought. :*(
5. No mission contacts or patrols?
6. Why can't re-inforcements, like Siren's Call Longbow and Arachnos spawns guard captured pillboxes, right now they just seem...eh when there aren't heroes guarding them, which happens alot as groups move on to take other boxes.
7. No Paragon Police? :*(
8. Mini-Heavies...Eh, cool, but why teh two shotting of them?
9. Heavies...Hmm, please put them back once you're done datamining... 
Other than that make them less like zombies, I find it quite often my heavies take me on a most wonderful journey around the zone ending up with them stuck inside of objects
10. Patron Powers < Ancillary Powers when Posi said in an interview Patron Powers > Ancillary Powers... 
It makes me feel so gimped in high-level PvP...
11. Past the Patron Power V.S. Ancillary Powers thing and the scrappers and blasters being able to hold corrupters and dominators not carrying break frees without knowing anything other than all they have to do to win is hold + smash attack buttons...
12. Running out of suggestions...
13. Back to the signature heroes/av's, I don't see some of the smaller servers like triumph always having even a sliver of the numbers needed to take some of them, could we get a minor scaling change that gives them slightly more power when dealing with tremendous numbers in their general area, as compared to a very few?
14. I feel lonely and empty in this zone alot, can we boost the spawn numbers/groups of spawns and make it feel like a REAL warzone?
15. Increase the dimensional reversion timer by a few minutes minutes or something, its kinda anticlimactic to engage in such a great battle for what... A couple measly minutes of control?
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I'm not sure When I'll have time to test this, so could someone answer a curiosity for me?
4 of 5 Villains PPPs contain a ranged Hold/Immob.... How is this affecting Blasters and Defenders? I ask b/c In general... The Devs' design mantra has always been "No AT is absolutely required for any team"... But if PvP becomes even more of a Mez-fest, then doesn't that make Empathy Defenders/Controllers required on all teams? We know Tanks and Scrappers can't absorbe mezzes, let alone find room to take Stimulant for their squishy Teammates so what exactly is the equalizer here? ...Other than a tray full of Break-frees I mean.
IE: Are Blasters and Defenders in ALL Team Make-Ups maintaining the same level of success they have in other zones and the Arena?
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No... heroes aren't really being effected by villain holds at ALL from my experience, while there aren't alot of them with holds, hero holds are more powerful, and heroes have alot more self granted hold/mez resistance, of CoH's 7 AT's at least 4 have access to hold resistance (3 if you lump khelds into one group, 2 if you disclude them) and they all have high HP and holds. of CoV's 5 they have 2 that have it accross the board (ff MM's have it too, but...) one of them is very squishy (even though they can hide yes...) but in all villains are getting Patron powers that are on a lower level than Ancillary powers, with less to back them up against this inbalance...
-RAMBLE THAT IS SURE TO GET ME INSULTED OFFICIALLY OVER- 
actually including apps, every hero at except defenders get some type of mez protection
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No... heroes aren't really being effected by villain holds at ALL from my experience, while there aren't alot of them with holds, hero holds are more powerful, and heroes have alot more self granted hold/mez resistance, of CoH's 7 AT's at least 4 have access to hold resistance (3 if you lump khelds into one group, 2 if you disclude them) and they all have high HP and holds. of CoV's 5 they have 2 that have it accross the board (ff MM's have it too, but...) one of them is very squishy (even though they can hide yes...) but in all villains are getting Patron powers that are on a lower level than Ancillary powers, with less to back them up against this inbalance...
-RAMBLE THAT IS SURE TO GET ME INSULTED OFFICIALLY OVER-
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Now is this with or with out Hamidon SO's or not becuase of course the heros are going to have the up in holds if they have the uber SO's
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I'm not sure When I'll have time to test this, so could someone answer a curiosity for me?
4 of 5 Villains PPPs contain a ranged Hold/Immob.... How is this affecting Blasters and Defenders? I ask b/c In general... The Devs' design mantra has always been "No AT is absolutely required for any team"... But if PvP becomes even more of a Mez-fest, then doesn't that make Empathy Defenders/Controllers required on all teams? We know Tanks and Scrappers can't absorbe mezzes, let alone find room to take Stimulant for their squishy Teammates so what exactly is the equalizer here? ...Other than a tray full of Break-frees I mean.
IE: Are Blasters and Defenders in ALL Team Make-Ups maintaining the same level of success they have in other zones and the Arena?
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Actually, with the massive nerfing of tank passive resists, many invul tanks are going a regen type route using 3 slotted health, DP and aid self. My invul tank has stimulant, though its duration of protection is amazingly low.
I found that many scrappers are difficult to hold mainly due to the combo of mez protection + high defense. Hard to hit, when you do hit it dont do anything. So, with a farily low to hit chance, you have to stack 3 holds (less with domination of course) and any misses typcially allow the first hold duration to expire (ie, not counting to overcoming mez protection). you cant use acc inspirations because you have to have a boat load of BFs too.
Tanks are the same, in that most tanks on test seem to be stone with granite or ice, which get a lot of defense.
I have held blasters and defenders and controllers, but scrappers and tanks are tough to hold, as much due to defense as mez protection.
On the PPP, it kinda makes me wonder about the thinking, as a corruptor (ice/dark) can have as many as 4 (or was it 5?) ST holds, plus two pets. In addition, they have a fear cone, healing, debuffs and good damage.
In my humble opinion (ok, not so humble), tanks and scrappers should have been vulnerable to mez, but keep defense and resistance while mezzed. They should never have had any ability to do any type of mezz at all (no stuns, KD, etc). Maybe real high knockback on one or two attacks that are on real long recharge timers (so it cant be a soft hold).
Then, squishies should have mez protection, and the ability to do mezzes (but balanced, as in if you do great damage, you cant mez). In my system, defenders and dominators and controllers would have mezzes, while blasters would not have mezzes and corruptor mezzes would be much weaker (only 1/set, and longer recharge).
While I know the above will never happen, as it is now mezzes are much better for blasters than controllers or dominators, because with BFs the durations just dont matter. Acrobatics is somewhat a counter to non-controller or non-dominator holds, but really holds dont work much in PVP.
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No... heroes aren't really being effected by villain holds at ALL from my experience, while there aren't alot of them with holds, hero holds are more powerful, and heroes have alot more self granted hold/mez resistance, of CoH's 7 AT's at least 4 have access to hold resistance (3 if you lump khelds into one group, 2 if you disclude them) and they all have high HP and holds. of CoV's 5 they have 2 that have it accross the board (ff MM's have it too, but...) one of them is very squishy (even though they can hide yes...) but in all villains are getting Patron powers that are on a lower level than Ancillary powers, with less to back them up against this inbalance...
-RAMBLE THAT IS SURE TO GET ME INSULTED OFFICIALLY OVER-
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How are hero holds more powerful? Dominators and controllers have the same mag. Other AT holds are 1 lower in mag, which make them resistable by acrobatics. Doms have 80% duration, but with BFs I would say the average hold time for all ATs is ~3 seconds (the time to pick and trigger a BF in the tray). With powerboost, hold durations for doms are much longer than anyones holds without BFs (but with BFs, ~3 seconds still).
Really, I havent been "held" much in RV. Its more stuns from nrg melee, immobs combo with head splitter, etc. Certainly the stregnth of holds has not been a problem, more the number of heros, the pre-ponderance of scrappers and tanks, and the difference in levels (4 more powers, lord knows how many extra slots). For example, many of my easy losses to scrappers would be a lot harder if I had my ppp armor running and slotted up. It would hurt, but I would survive and have options. As it is now, they dont miss and do loads of damage, I still usually have a chance if its only 1v1, and not 1 v 10-15 (who are smack talking about people running to the base!?!).
The same is also true of the jousting blasters. If you had the armor up, you would likely live long enough to hit BF (from the stun from TF) and to hold/run. As it is now, quite a few times my dead bod was left looking at a held blaster.
Im very disappointed in the PPP overall, but the armors (for a dom) will help a lot to even stuff out. Wish it had mez protection, but it will be good.
Yep, I agree with you about corruptors. The villain teams are much too reliant on them. In fact, they have been since Siren's at least.
I assumed it was just the fact that the villain ATs are later bloomers, but we don't have that issue any longer in RV (aside from some slots and PPPs, which really will not help).
I think the problem is that the villain ATs are just too squishy overall. Lower hitpoints across the board, our second support class (MMs) being subpar buffers, brutes are still squishy and generally low-damage, less mez protection than heroes and hero APPs. And while bodyguard might have helped MMs (still to be determined IMO), they still suffer in PvP because of the pets (pathing, slow, long setup, etc).
Honestly, as I have been playing in a PvP-oriented VG for a while, the villain pvp just seems shallow atm. Too much corruptor support reliance. A hero team can do pretty well with a mix of ATs, but villains have to have way too many corruptors. At least doms are useful now, even if they are squishy and mezzable.
It really has stunted my desire to level past 40. That and the crappy PPPs giving me nothing to look forward to on the PvE side. Mayhem missions are cool though!
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And while bodyguard might have helped MMs (still to be determined IMO), they still suffer in PvP because of the pets (pathing, slow, long setup, etc).
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Plus bodyguard could be easily countered. Repel (force bubble in particular comes to mind) to push those pets away, or just tp foe.
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No... heroes aren't really being effected by villain holds at ALL from my experience, while there aren't alot of them with holds, hero holds are more powerful, and heroes have alot more self granted hold/mez resistance, of CoH's 7 AT's at least 4 have access to hold resistance (3 if you lump khelds into one group, 2 if you disclude them) and they all have high HP and holds. of CoV's 5 they have 2 that have it accross the board (ff MM's have it too, but...) one of them is very squishy (even though they can hide yes...) but in all villains are getting Patron powers that are on a lower level than Ancillary powers, with less to back them up against this inbalance...
-RAMBLE THAT IS SURE TO GET ME INSULTED OFFICIALLY OVER-
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How are hero holds more powerful?
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I was refering to ancillary holds and patron holds, the patron holds have an insanely longer recharge time and while I've only heard from word of mouth on the hold durations, those are shorter too, as a hero I can stack my ancillary powerset holds rather quickly when it takes a villain about twice as long.
Sorry, I tried reading through, but this thread got much too large. Has there been any word on whether missions are going to be added? I went on both the hero side and villain side and did not see any mission contacts or quests other than the info on turrets and heavies.
I recall Positron said several months ago that the new PvP zone would contain mission content like the other zones.
Did anyone else find contacts? Has there been any more recent word? My level 50 would like the opportunity to get a nifty phase/stealth temp power like the other zones give out.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
you know what would be cool? a placate temp power
but nobody's heard or seen any contacts in RV yet
i can't even find the damn weapons seller that the 2 arbiters there tell me to go see...
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I was refering to ancillary holds and patron holds, the patron holds have an insanely longer recharge time and while I've only heard from word of mouth on the hold durations, those are shorter too, as a hero I can stack my ancillary powerset holds rather quickly when it takes a villain about twice as long
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I can barely stack a hold on an even level LT on my tank with 2 Hold, 2 Recharge SOs. I tried it on someone with no protection they were held maybe 7 secs. 3/3 I can't see being enough to hold someone long unless they weren't protected much to begin with. Which hold and AT are you using?
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Just saw Recluse, Widow, Mako, and Scorpion in RV. Got screenies of Mako and LR, none of the other though, and no signs of Scirrico.
Lord Recluse 1
Captain Mako
Lord Recluse 2
Enjoy 
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GRRRRRR.......LINK IS #$%@&!# BROKEN.......PLZ FIX IT I WANT TO SEE THE COOL VILLAINS......GRRRRRRRr 
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but i saw some turrets a week or 2 ago that were lvl 50...did they change all of them to be 54, or are some 50 and some 54, or what?
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I've seen reports of both. All the ones I've seen were 54. However I didn't sweep the whole zone so it's entirely possible there's some disparity in how things are spawning.
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Swept whole zone the other night all turrets were level 54.
The author of this post is speaking in generalities from his personal experience.
Your experience may vary.
Hi, I'm not going to read 20 pages of text it's nothing personal, just tossing out my 2cents.
Look, I'm all for the "Zero Health" we you die and respawn aspect of this zone, but the zero endurance is killing Masterminds.
You reduced the recharge on our 32 skill, but it's still a brute on endurance. Normally when I die in a PVP zone, I summon all my pets, apply 2 tier 1 buffs, 1 tier 2 buff, then use my rest. Now, I have to use my rest, and I'm back to ye'olde 5 minute buff cycle, meanwhile everyone else in the party is back out in the fray ;-)
Please, let us start with no health but full endurance. Or at least MM's...
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Ghost Widow has the same power when I fought her as a EB in a mission. Was teamed up with a Invul brute, and he snatched him up in Soul Storm, even with him having 3+ IDs on him. Kinda cool, if you ask me.
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yeah it's cool, but after a while it's damn annoying XD