Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
You have got to be kidding. Invuln tank set is far superior versus everything but Psi and Energy damage - Invincibilty and Dull Pain alone. The added HP (+80%) from Dull Pain and the +Def from Invincibility add up to really heavy damage mitigation outside of the pure resists in the set. Plus Invuln tank can cap their smash/lethal resist. AND they can take aid self. Even vs. Psi damage Invuln gets the benefit of buffed max HP.
The two sets aren't in the same world, please don't put out stupid non-factual propaganda like that.
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Shadow dweller. Passive skill in DA stalker version. Immob protection, defense, and perception.
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I meant specifically the knockdown protection, that's really pretty valuable (more than immob). Can't believe that's going on a passive, although it'd be neat.
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Shadow dweller. Passive skill in DA stalker version. Immob protection, defense, and perception.
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I meant specifically the knockdown protection, that's really pretty valuable (more than immob). Can't believe that's going on a passive, although it'd be neat.
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Well it'd be pretty lame to make Grounded into a toggle that only gave Passive lvl energy and negative resists. It'll most likely stay a passive.
Kinetic Fusion - lvl 50 EM/EA Brute
Galvanized - lvl 50 Bots/Dark Mastermind
Umetrus - lvl 50 Fire/Kin Corruptor
Psychotropic Pstud - lvl 50 Mind/Psi Dom
Yes I agree - what I said was that I think Castle mis-stated, and probably meant that knockback/immob is going on the EXISTING TOGGLE, not that I think they will make grounded into a toggle.
you like the word "strugglin." huh /snicker
do have a afew questions for you have you tried */elec past lvl25? or any other brute */* set past 25ish when the game actully picks up?
KB/Imm protection glade elec got it 3 cheers for */elec =p
short-term survivability, is about the same as fire/dark/invuln if you ever played these and got to a desent lvl with them you would know you dont have to heal every group
long-term while heals are nice and good in a pinch and will help in the longer run then more then elec but look at EA and SR both are still vary workable with no heal, and if you wont a heal there is always aid self
self heal hp+ yep dull pain is vary helpful i will admit that but fire/dark dont have this on there heal and yet do fine
5-6% res more then other sets dont know where you get your numbers unless you where looking at s/l only if thats teh case your strugglin. but lets run them really quick (assume you do at least 3 so++ for everything recharge res ect) all %'s came form teh hero builder witch are pritty close if not dead on
Elec - 41% s/l/f/c/p 30%n.eng 90%eng 0%toxic Almost full mez protection (no fear/repel/confuse) last power is basicly unstopable with EMP hold at the end
invuln - 50% s/l 20.6%c/f/e/n/t 0%psi 2%bace def (yes unyeilding takes up alot alittle over 1% for the next 9 witch dont def vs psi) also almost full mez protection (no slow/fear/confuse/tp/end drain) has dull pain (40%hp boost and recharge of 183.22 witch is along time when fighting a +3-5 CoT ghost with its psi attacks) unstopable drain life and end when it crashs no paoe hold at the end
Fire - 35.3% s/l/e/n 20.6%cold 78.5%fire 0%toxic/psi Mez protecction (missing KB and imm pro in burn with is not bad per say also no fear/repel/confuse/tp/slow/end drain) Healing flames 30.54 recharge for 25% heal and 15% toxic res 30.54 set also along time when fighting a +3-5 critter Rise of the phoenix probly the best looking power i think but wonder why they have rez
dark - 35.3%s/l/c/f 23.5%eng/toxic 58.8%psi 47.1%n.eng 5.1%def to all but psi mez protection (no kb/tp/confuse/repel/slow) dark regen is a nice power but one of thow things that dont work unless bad guys are around 30% per bad guy thow recharge of 15.27 can see it as helpful
Soul Transfer hehe bad guys near you to rez
stone - (dont knwo this one as well as the others) 8.8%s/l 29.4%c/f 0%t/e/n/p def 19.6%s/l/e/n/p 0%c/f/t earth's embrace 183.22 recharge 40% heal 40% boost to hps 15% toxic mez protection (no fear/slow/confuse/tp) and a number of -spd -fly -jump powers Granite armor now this is uber but has -recharge -dmg -spd -fly -jump but is uber def/res
not going to do Eng thow i should sents it dont have a self heal and is all def baced and thows that play def baced chars know when they get hit they get hit and hard
over all there res are way over what every one else has in almost every respec while turn no heal dose hurt it just mean elec will be for into med pool like fire/da into leaping and stone into tp
last post i'll do on this to menny little kids getting there feather ruffled over something that is not even out yet
and for teh record never did the perma MoG ;P
Dark Armor has end drain resistance.
thanks for teh correction
For someone with multiple 50s on your sig, you probably should look at how the sets you use work a little more closely. Dull Pain/Earth's Embrace, when slotted for heal, now buff your health to a larger % - with 3x heal, the HP buff is +80%. The amount healed is increased by slotting as well, and has been for as long as I'm aware of.
You totally ignored Invincibilty in the Invuln set, which is about the best power in it. Even strictly within brute sets, the +80% health boost and commensurate increased HP regen coupled with the +Def in Invincibility versus a large number of targets make Invuln very obviously better in the majority of "tanking" situations. You have a 50 Invuln scrapper in your sig, you ought to know these things.
Not to say that Electric is a bad set, I think it's pretty interesting as is, but NO WAY will it replace Invuln for general purpose "tanking". Nor Stone. Frankly before Granite, Stone is pretty bad compared to about everything else, especially the Brute version.
I was being very general with my numbers, but if you look at the number YOU posted, you'll see that on average, if you put all the sets numbers together that /ELEC has abit better resists all around while having awesome energy resist.
Nothing in your post really disproved anything I said. You brought out some numbers which, since you were trying to be really technical, were off here and there.
You also glossed over several powers from every set. You have to look at all the power s combined in each set to be able to compare it to another set. You can't just try to prove your point by selectively picking and choosing powers to make your opinion look stronger than it is.
I don't know how many brutes you have, but your sig shows only heroes. I have a lvl 40 EM/INV brute, a lvl 36 SS/EA brute, a lvl 25 SS/INV brute, a lvl 19 stone/fire brute, a lvl 31 EM/regen stalker, a lvl 24 fire/kin corruptor and about a bagillion lowbie alts in the 10-20 range. I have first hand experience and plenty of it. Specifically as pertains to brutes.
You say /ELEC resists are so high above everyone else and that all it needs to do is invest to power into getting an interruptable heal that while nice, needs to be 6 slotted, is interruptable and has an animation that roots your toon for a couple seconds. Again you prove nothing as I already said big whoop. Any other set can effectively have 2 heals allowing them to still outstrip /ELEC's damage mitigation from healign alone, not to mention their other damage mitigation powers. Lets list the resistances for all the sets you listed up close for a nice comparison. We assume each set is maximally slotted and picks all appropriate powers to maximize their secondary. Numbers(%) being right on to VERY close:
S/L F C N.eng Eng toxic Psi
ELEC 41% 41% 41% 35% 90% 0% 41%
+ no defence, no healing and no damage mitigation powers available. Can cap energy resist.
INV 50% 20% 20% 20% 20% 0 % 0%
+Invincibility, dull pain, highest S/L resist
FIRE 35% 78.5% 20.6%35% 35% 0-15% 0%
+heal, extra damage through aura, fiery embrace etc
DARK 35% 35% 35% 47.1% 23.5% 23.5% 59%
+best self heal of brute sets, 2 damage mitigation cloaks, stealth power, +perception, highest negative and psionic damage resist
STONE Since it's shields are defense based it makes comparison difficult. Fully slotted granite(toggle)=75% resistance to all I think and 75% defence.
+100% regen in toggle, earth's embrace=Dull pain, granite, mud pots
Now you then add in how much the sets are capable of healing and how much they can mitigate damage and then the picture becomes clear. Basically I've just said what I said before only a little more technical, but in the end I'm correct. Besides the slightly higher resistance numbers overall, it has no healing or damage mitigation. It has nice toys and uniqueness and I have no doubt the set will be very fun to play and very good in pvp, but it's not overpowered compared to other sets in any way, shape or form.
Ya, I like the word strugglin. You are trying to get a set nerfed that clearly does not need to be nerfed simply because it has slightly higher resists overall (DUH, no selfheal, no damage mitigation) and capped energy resist( gotta have something we are good at resisting). IT will solo fine. In large teams it will clearly not do as well as some of the other sets unless it has a healer or respites on hand at all times. It means you are struggling to comprehend the situation, BRAH...
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I think it is likely that Castle mis-stated where the KB/Immob resist is going - all other KB/Immob resist in the game as far as I am aware is on a toggle or click, never on a passive. While it would be nifty to have these things on a passive, I just don't think it's terribly likely.
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well, dark stalkers are getting passive immob res too. i think that they are going to make the mag protection lower than the toggle mez protection but leave the res to the effects intact. So elec will still be affected more by these particular mezzes but will still resist a bunch.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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For someone with multiple 50s on your sig, you probably should look at how the sets you use work a little more closely. Dull Pain/Earth's Embrace, when slotted for heal, now buff your health to a larger % - with 3x heal, the HP buff is +80%. The amount healed is increased by slotting as well, and has been for as long as I'm aware of.
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just to be a pain, the DP buff is only half enhanceable. slotted up with 3heals, the buff is 60%
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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I think it is likely that Castle mis-stated where the KB/Immob resist is going - all other KB/Immob resist in the game as far as I am aware is on a toggle or click, never on a passive. While it would be nifty to have these things on a passive, I just don't think it's terribly likely.
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well, dark stalkers are getting passive immob res too. i think that they are going to make the mag protection lower than the toggle mez protection but leave the res to the effects intact. So elec will still be affected more by these particular mezzes but will still resist a bunch.
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Exactly what I was thinking. Get more than 1 spines scrapper on your tail and you're gonna be sitting still for a moment. Oh and don't get me started on grav trollers who make effective use of immobs. *shudders*
Wow Sheva as someone else stated for al the 50's you have, you don't know how a lot of the powers work that well at all. As already stated by myself and delirious anyone can pick up aid self so saying that /elec picking up aid self puts them over the top. Then an Inv with aid self is what? Running dull pain with 60% boosted hp and being able to hit aid self is just too uber then huh?
Yes you are strugglin with your arguements which you know seem to know little about. Smashing and lethal is close to 50% of the damage seen in the game. How nice of you to take the time to slot you heals with recharges but not with heals, yeah like anyone in their right mind is gonna do that.
Unstoppable drop you can dull pain right afterwards to recover your health. Even more so since all buffs start flashing when they are about to drop now in I7.
Your long term survivability seemed to be solo. All that damage resistance will do squat without massive healing on a team. Lets not even mention if you need to actually run because you or the team got in over your head. All the other resistance sets which heals can cast their heal as they run, sure some have animation times to deal with but you can still hit it while running. Aid self being interuptable you won't have the same option.
There's a typo in the Electric Armor description in character creation.
"...Electric Armor offer better than average resistance to just about all types of damage "," including Psionic, but has not healing abilities or resistance to Toxic. Electric Armor also offer superior...."
It should be "offers", no first comma, and "does not have".
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you make some vaild points but wont change the fact it will go live as it is and some where down the line after people start hitting 50 they will datamine and it will get hit the next issue, something i would like to avoid myself dont know about you but playing a char to 50 and then having the guts riped out is not fun... to each there own and dont say i didn't tell you so when i8 rolls around
and well whats his name birdbird are what ever your name was are is when unstopable crashs whats happens? ummmm... HP/end drop witch means no dull pain for you tell you get alittle end back, and umm most people the smart people put 3/recharge/heals in there powers i was not about to go fully slot up chars just do i could tell you how mutch they heal when i was looking for recharge times
and you are saying i dont know how powers work.
survivability yep was bace of solo and on a team if your smart you have a thermal or kin corp with you witch is not hard to find... go back to ap i'm sure they miss you there
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ummmm... HP/end drop witch means no dull pain for you tell you get alittle end back
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I believe people save blues for the crash so they can go crash/blue/DP/other stuff
Electric will be able to go crash/blue/aid self/power sink/conserve power/raise shields/continue on like normal. With their nuke at the end, they might even survive long enough to get it all off.
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bunch of stuff said by sheeva
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Um...do you think you could put a bit more thought into how you say stuff? Your posts are REALLY hard to read. They feel incoherent. It takes like 3x or so as long as a normal post to figure out what you're trying to say, and even then it's still a bit confusing.
Culex's resistance guide
sorry about that
people like birdbird personly attacking me cuz i dont agree with them makes me go abit on the defencive side and typing gets really bad
Ya, /ELEC is going live like it is, but with Immob and KB protection too. Is it gonna get nerfed come i8? I sure hope not. About the only thing the dev's could nerf the set with is by lowering energy resistance, which if they did would be really messed up considering that is like this sets trademark resist like fire armor has mega fire resist and INV has high S/L resist.
If you are talking about the set getting nerfed then you should explain exactly why?
How can you nerf /ELEC?
Well, you can't lower the all around resistance of the set. It has no self heal and it's resistances are not too high at all. They are good, but not great considering it can't heal damage. The only damage is has great resistance to is energy and it should stay like it is.
So what else can we nerf? Well you can't very well nerf lightning reflexes. That's just dumb. You can't nerf conserve power or power sink. That's retarded. You can't really nerf grounded. They sure as heck aren't gonna nerf it's lvl 38 power surge. Can't nerf lightning field. So what can you nerf?
None of it's powers mitigate damage or heal away damage.
So let me ask you. How can you nerf the set? If you say it has to have it's resistances dropped you are plain retarded.
And BTW, comparing this set as is to INV or regen back in the day is RETARDED. And yes, I like that word because it's not considered PC.
Later.
i think the resist levels should be buffed about 5% (base) since it can't heal and has no defense
Well we know Geombear is not retarded. 
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and well whats his name birdbird are what ever your name was are is when unstopable crashs whats happens? ummmm... HP/end drop witch means no dull pain for you tell you get alittle end back, and umm most people the smart people put 3/recharge/heals in there powers i was not about to go fully slot up chars just do i could tell you how mutch they heal when i was looking for recharge times
and you are saying i dont know how powers work.
survivability yep was bace of solo and on a team if your smart you have a thermal or kin corp with you witch is not hard to find... go back to ap i'm sure they miss you there
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As Generic said, with the new change in I7 for buffs you will know when it will drop, so either wait it out or hit a blue and possible a break free, then DP. DP is not interuptable like Aid Self so hitting a blue then getting interupted after trying to heal for electric will not go so well.
If you are going to use other sets having heals to argue that electric needs nerfed that argument made no sense to begin with. Aid Self can be taken by anyone. Sorry but disregarding the health boosts from the powers is exactly what you did. That an Inv or Stone brute with the added health boosts gets better results from health from fitness pool. Also when you completely disregard defense in those sets you make it appear like you really don't have a full grasp of the sets.
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DP is not interuptable like Aid Self so hitting a blue then getting interupted after trying to heal for electric will not go so well.
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There's an emp blast thingy at the end of power surge in the electric set that incapacitates the enemies around the electric brute, giving you time to pop blues/heals/raise shields/whatever.
Assuming it hits. Also, aid self really isn't that hard to get off. I'd be more worried about dying than a properly slotted aid self not going off.
But you are right that an invul tank can also take aid self and have 2 heals.
Electric still has more resists than invul, however. The pseudo resists that DP gives aren't true resists as heals don't scale with the new hp. Still, I think that the defense, resistances, and the super healing and regeneration boosts that DP gives, passes up electric's defensive ability quite nicely. Except maybe against energy attacks. But it should because invul is pure defense, and electric has LOTS of utility.
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just to be a pain, the DP buff is only half enhanceable. slotted up with 3heals, the buff is 60%
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Thanks for the correction, I should have known that.
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been around sents CoH beta myself, if you look at my sig you'll see i've done both 2, just gets abit old rebuilding every issue and can see elec going down that road... while you make a good point that should wait and see who knows grounded may be turned into a toggle
you have to admit 41% res to s/l/c/f/psi 30%ish res to n.enf, 90%ish vs eng pluse full set of mez protection but for repel (and would like to test that myself might just be unlisted like it is on unyeilding) is abit mutch when compaired to the other Res baced sets brutes have even if you add in that they can heal on average in every 120sec are so (i know some are short are some are longer)
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This makes an inv tank look sad. The best they can get is like 28% vs all non s/l but psi and toxic. A brute set with better resistances then a tanker set. Inv needs some Dev Work pronto.
It is nice what they have done with the electic armor though for sure!
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