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Devs' idea of a small SG: seven members.
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This is a reasonable assumption based on the given info, however... those sort of numbers assume that no actual effort goes into making the base function. Get six other people, plop down a room, a couple items, boom. Seems too easy to me. That's basically like giving someone something for nothing.
I'm guessing the model is closer to 4-5, and here's why:
1) You have to work a little bit to get that extra smidgeon of prestige, which is fine because...
2) no salvage = no buffs, so you must put some effort into gathering salvage to get anything out of these options.
I think this is entirely do-able by 2 or 3 fairly dedicated players, especially if they get started on their base early in their careers. It may be more work than some people are willing to put into it, but you can't really factor laziness into models like this.
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Hasn't it been stated that all of these are self-powered and require no control?
[/ QUOTE ]Where did you read THAT?
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I think this is entirely do-able by 2 or 3 fairly dedicated players, especially if they get started on their base early in their careers.
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I was actually thinking 'woohoo, a SG as small as seven people could use this'. But you're right, of course - even smaller SGs could get a lot from it.
Anyway, it's easily do-able by two. Just fill the 13 other SG slots with alts, and who knows what treasures 300,000 Prestige will get you? 
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Total Cost for working Salvage storage and a working Empowerment Station: 130,000 Prestige
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7 members at 20,000 bonus Prestige per member = 140,000 Prestige
Minimum number of members necessary to achieve this: 7.
Devs' idea of a small SG: seven members.
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So you want it for free? If you are a two man or solo SG then you have to make some hard choices on what your going to purchase first. At least you don't have to purchase a generator and control elements AND the room to put those in first.
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Hasn't it been stated that all of these are self-powered and require no control?
[/ QUOTE ]Where did you read THAT?
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One of the Positron interviews, I think. I'm trying to find it now.
EDIT: Here you go. It was in the MMORPG.com interview.
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What are the empowerment stations?
* Low-end base items that can give your characters a buff in exchange for Salvage. These base items are self-powered, so even a bare-bones base will be able to install and use it.
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Hasn't it been stated that all of these are self-powered and require no control?
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It has been. The empowerment stations and some of the storage units should require 0 control, 0 power, no mater what level they are.
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One of the Positron interviews, I think. I'm trying to find it now.
[/ QUOTE ]No, he gave the power and control for the "lowest level empowerment station" and the "Salvage storage rack." NOT the lvl 2-3 of either variety.
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So you want it for free?
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No, no, no. I'm just countering those who were worried about some SGs being too small to benefit. It was a happy post, not a whiny one.
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No, he gave the power and control for the "lowest level empowerment station" and the "Salvage storage rack." NOT the lvl 2-3 of either variety.
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Look again:
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What are the empowerment stations?
* Low-end base items that can give your characters a buff in exchange for Salvage. These base items are self-powered, so even a bare-bones base will be able to install and use it.
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Items. Plural.
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Items. Plural.
[/ QUOTE ]Low-end...items. Last time I checked the low-end empowerment station and salvage rack would count as "items." If you guys go on thinking you will NOT have to pay control or power for the Lvl 2-3 items it is your own fault for failing at reading comprehension, not the Devs.
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Total Cost for working Salvage storage and a working Empowerment Station: 130,000 Prestige
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7 members at 20,000 bonus Prestige per member = 140,000 Prestige
Minimum number of members necessary to achieve this: 7.
Devs' idea of a small SG: seven members.
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I have several characters in their lower 20s with that much Prestige by themselves. I have a level 31 Brute that I keep in debt a lot who has 250K prestige by himself.
A single player could easily afford that and more by his or her 30s. An SG with two or three active players could have all that before their twenties.
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Items. Plural.
[/ QUOTE ]Low-end...items. Last time I checks empowerment stations and salvage rack would count as "items." If you guys go on thinking you will NOT have to play control or power for the Lvl 2-3 items it is your own fault for failing at reading comprehension, not the Devs.
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Any people say I'm cynical. Geez. 
Still, you could be correct. Except that the mistake would be assuming rather than earning an F in reading comprehension.
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Another HUGE question. If I place my salvage/inspirations/enhancements in the storage station and an SG Base Architect sells the storage station to temporarily free up cash/space/move rooms around, what happens to the salvage/inspirations/enhancements? This is a major question requiring an answer IMO.
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Bump till this question is answered...
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Low-end...items. Last time I checked the low-end empowerment station and salvage rack would count as "items."
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But the question was 'What are the empowerment stations?'
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What are the empowerment stations?
* Low-end base items that can give your characters a buff in exchange for Salvage. These base items are self-powered, so even a bare-bones base will be able to install and use it.
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(Insert reciprocal snarky comment about reading comprehension here.)
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What you are evidently having immense trouble grasping is the NATURE of the errors that the Devs have made, which you cited. They all depended upon player use to screw them up. My point, which is really very simple, is that making a design decision to which players then react to unexpectedly is NOT the same as making a design decision that cripples your intent in and of itself, straight off the bat, making it unworkable for the very players for which it was intended (small SGs).
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Heh.
I grasp it completely. Its just an irrelevant distinction. The only reason you even made the baffling contrast was as a smoke screen to cover your complete inability to refute my examples of errors made by the devs. (BTW, Im still waiting for you to show me where I said that players would make empowerment stations unaffordable.)
You are evidently having immense trouble grasping the fact that a person who makes many errors in one area can also make them in another closely related area. Its like saying that just because someone has atrocious spelling, you do not expect him to have poor grammar. In fact, you would predict that his grammar is excellent !
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Or - as I keep asking - do you perhaps think that's a valid concern? Do you really think the Devs would accidentally make empowerment stations too expensive by SOMEHOW requiring you to buy huge rooms for them? Maybe I could get an answer this time, instead of your delightful rhetoric?
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Jesus H. Christ on a Gravy-Soaked Biscuit
.. You dont know the answer YET ?!?!?!?!? 
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By the way, there are numbers now, so this discussion is redundant.
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The word you are looking for here is irrelevant.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Any people say I'm cynical. Geez.
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I don't "feel" cynical. I just see how they are being specific in their language for a reason. And honestly I REALLY don't want to have to save up for Advanced Mainframes and Advanced Generators. Thinking I might have to do that makes me sick. 
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Any people say I'm cynical. Geez.
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I don't "feel" cynical. I just see how they are being specific in their language for a reason. And honestly I REALLY don't want to have to save up for Advanced Mainframes and Advanced Generators. Thinking I might have to do that makes me sick.
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Oh come on, note the emoticon. Just a gentle "elbow" there. Nudge, nudge. Know what I mean? Know what I mean?
My stomach is churning over the cost of the 8x12 plot. 
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Is this a different workshop than where you place your workbenches? If not, 30K to put this stuff in isn't bad.
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My read on that is that the emp station/storage items take up the same "slot" as a workbench would, which is what I've been positing all along. So they'd need their own workroom.
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Empowerment Stations occupy the Empowerment slot, not a Workbench slot.
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Thats great news but what is the size of it?
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Thats great news but what is the size of it?
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Solarfox:
Based on the screen shot. The basic empowerment stations take up 1/4th of a square. The advanced ones take up 1 square.
So you could easily fit 2 empowerment stations, and 2 work tables in a single 2x2 room, as an example.
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Oh come on, note the emoticon. Just a gentle "elbow" there. Nudge, nudge. Know what I mean? Know what I mean?
My stomach is churning over the cost of the 8x12 plot.
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Oh I knew you were kidding. 
That was just my frustrated face. We can empathize as we plan our individual SG's financial futures. Is "Smith Barney" still in the investment business?
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I grasp it completely. Its just an irrelevant distinction.
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No, it's not, and I shall explain why. Again.
None of the errors that you have mentioned were obviously errors at the time of design. They are all errors because of a failure to correctly anticipate player behaviour.
However, an accidentally overpriced Empowerment Station is glaringly obvious, even in the design stage. It's a numeric issue, not a behavioural one. It doesn't depend on player behaviour to stand out as an error. Because of that, it's not the kind of error a halfway competent Dev is going to make.
In brief, to make that kind of error, a Dev would have to say 'I know we intended to make these items affordable for small SGs, but we accidentally made them far too expensive, because we forgot all about factors X Y and Z.'
Do you really think that could happen? If so, you credit the Devs with far less competence than I do.
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Is "Smith Barney" still in the investment business?
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I was thinking E-Trade, actually. Just saw a commercial for them last night...
I need to get some of my people together so we can thumb our noses at the PvPers as we dash from door mission to door mission. There's some good XP & prestige to be had there. And we'll probably get some use out of the medlab too. 
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So you want it for free?
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No, no, no. I'm just countering those who were worried about some SGs being too small to benefit. It was a happy post, not a whiny one.
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Aye, My apologies. After I posted and read a few later posts I relized that but didn't have time to change my post (shh don't tell the boss!)
Thank you Posi for posting the numbers, but I think the 130,000 you quoted is light. Assuming these items are craftable, it would require a working Work table. In order to get a work table, the minimum cost is 750,000
Control rom: 100,000
Energy Room: 150,000
Workshop: 100,000
Basic Generator: 225,000
Mainframe: 150,000
Basic Work Table: 25,000
Total: 750,000
So unless all of the new items are 100% bought, not craftable, and require no power or control, the costs would be 780,000. That figure is still prohibitive for a small sg.
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1) What is the energy control cost for the Lvl 2 and Lvl 3 empowerment stations and storage units? Do they scale as badly as work stations?
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Hasn't it been stated that all of these are self-powered and require no control?