Why, after 2 years, is Barrage still horrible?
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2006-02-10 13:24 in Tankers
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Fire Bomb - I'm not trying to insult you, and I didn't really want to get back into this thread, but Monay's post sucked me in.
If your numbers were posted to compare L1 attacks AT L1, then my comments just don't apply. But after it was made clear I meant my comments in the context of later game play, it is clear to someone thinking that they're not that relevent, for reasons stated.
Please realize I think your post was, in many respects, excellent, and I didn't intend for my comments to be construed as a personal attack. I just wanted to be clear that those numbers can't be considered relevent in the context that I was trying to say barrage was lacking.
But I posted initially more just to gripe about how useless it was to me at 45, with no way to get rid of it, when I'd have preferred to replace it with any other L1 tanker power or a pool power.... but my post was just a gripe and I didn't really put the needed info into it. I was lazy and started things off poorly. I'm going to try again to exit the thread. Sorry again.
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I smell backpeddling. I like fuel to fire a month later!!
Yeah Porkchop is right......we grumbled about having more of an offense and look at what happ to our defense.
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
QFT
I say it should do something along the lines of Stone Fists dmg, cause Energy is supposed to be the least resisted than anything in this game besides Psionics/
Stone Fist can disorient but does more damage than Barrage that does the same thing but less damage
If we really want to fix a tanker melee skill, change that PBAOE sleep at the end of ice melee!
It really needs to be something else ^^;
Energy IS less resisted than Psionics.
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
k...your pretty much agreeing w/ my statement...
No, I'm being cranky about the idea of Energy Melee buffing, especially if you're trying to base it on "ought to be resisted less than" a damage type whose "least resisted" perception is in one place - PvP. In PvE, I would say it's resisted as much or more than physical damage (blades and blunts).
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
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Seismic Smash, for example, is pretty comparable. Really, Seismic is actually better than anything but ET, and ET does self-damage.
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Seismic is better than Total Focus? I don't think so. I think it's identical, as is Knockout Blow.
ET is what defines the Energy set just as Rage defines Super Strength. But the real jaw-dropper is ET AFTER you've just unloaded with Total Focus.
Barrage is a fine power. I had it on auto for close to 30 levels. No complaints here.
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What is the activation time of Seismic Smash compared to Total Focus? Obviously, they have the same BI, but do they have the same animation time as well?
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No, I'm being cranky about the idea of Energy Melee buffing, especially if you're trying to base it on "ought to be resisted less than" a damage type whose "least resisted" perception is in one place - PvP. In PvE, I would say it's resisted as much or more than physical damage (blades and blunts).
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k...it does like what? about 6 dmg when you first get it...a few more points of damage wouldn't hurt. Your making it seem like I want it to do a helluva lot more.
even before PvP it was known that Smashing/Lethal was the highest resisted dmg in the game. The fact that it's energy based and does less dmg than all the other sets is just off...
Seismic smash is MUCH faster on Animation time as it uses the Bone Smasher animation.
And why is everyone raving about ET? its not BETTER than Total Focus in terms of per hit damage its even. Unless i missed a patch note somewhere. And doesnt Seismic hit multiple targets that are close together or no? I could be wrong there.
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If the things Blasters and Stalkers can do with EM haven't made us Nerf EM yet, absolutely nothing said here will. Carry on.
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Yikes! 
No offense meant, but are you playing the same game we are? How does Cryptic determine what justifies "tweeking" powersets? You really can't compare the other blaster secondaries to EM, especially in PvP. Do you honestly believe that other blaster secondaries and stalker primaries are as effective as EM?
My Ice/EM blaster is leaps and bounds more effective in PvP and PvE than any other blaster combo I have. So effective that everyone I know and see in PvP zones on a regular basis all abandoned their blasters to make new /EM ones.
If un-unique builds are what you are all striving for, you are succeeding with flying colors. It's interesting to me that on one hand, Cryptic says nerfs were needed because certain sets were overpowered. If EM isn't, I'd really love to see what Cryptic considers "overpowered".
Mind you, I have 3 /EM characters (2 hero, 1 villain).
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And doesnt Seismic hit multiple targets that are close together or no? I could be wrong there.
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Yes, you are wrong.
Although the animation makes it look like it should be a small AoE, it is in fact a single target attack only.
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And why is everyone raving about ET? its not BETTER than Total Focus in terms of per hit damage its even.
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That's why everyone raves about it. It's a fast animating (and relatively unresisted) extreme damage attack, in a set that already has an extreme damage attack, except the second extreme damage attack also has a boss-level stun attached.
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
doesn't ET use the same animation as Power Thrust? (think that's the power name...) and Stun uses the Slash(?) animation?
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doesn't ET use the same animation as Power Thrust? (think that's the power name...) and Stun uses the Slash(?) animation?
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Yes to both. ET is the quick outward Palm thrust, and Stun is the slowish fist and body being drawn back for the blow. Everyone would recgonize Stun as that slow drawn out attack that Tsoo Red Inkmen use. I mean who hasn't had their knoggin's rung a couple times by Red Inkmen?
I love Barrage.
Fast power.
Good DPS.
Great animation.
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I love Barrage.
Fast power.
Good DPS.
Great animation.
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Barrage is horrible DPS. What kind of evil crack are you smoking?
Even within its own set it's horrid. Look at these numbers:
Barrage: 1.41 BI per second
Energy Punch: 4.87 BI per second
Bonesmasher: 3.04 BI per second
Energy Transfer: 12.6 BI per second
Total Focus: 2.99 BI per second
It's the worst DPS in the set by far. The next-worst power is Total Focus, which is still over twice the DPS of Barrage.
~Gabriel
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I love Barrage.
Fast power.
Good DPS.
Great animation.
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Barrage is horrible DPS. What kind of evil crack are you smoking?
Even within its own set it's horrid. Look at these numbers:
Barrage: 1.41 BI per second
Energy Punch: 4.87 BI per second
Bonesmasher: 3.04 BI per second
Energy Transfer: 12.6 BI per second
Total Focus: 2.99 BI per second
It's the worst DPS in the set by far. The next-worst power is Total Focus, which is still over twice the DPS of Barrage.
~Gabriel
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BTW Stun is by far the worse power in that regard. DPS isn't everything in a power. TF is a Mag 4 10 second Disorient. With the right slotting, you can chain stun a Boss, in addition to the massive damage.
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BTW Stun is by far the worse power in that regard. DPS isn't everything in a power. TF is a Mag 4 10 second Disorient. With the right slotting, you can chain stun a Boss, in addition to the massive damage.
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Stun isn't really a damage power. It's a hold. I didn't line it up with the others for a reason.
~Gabriel
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It is horrible for the exact same reason that frozen aura is horrible from Ice Melee. I have never found a use for that power except for logging into the test server and remembering why I will never take that power. At least barage does damage, not much - but some, and is not your final power of the set.
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Gesh! Just slot it w/ Acc & Disor enhnces and stop complaining. Put the darn thing on "Auto" it cycles so fast that it is like having a cont with you all the time. 
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Seismic Smash, for example, is pretty comparable. Really, Seismic is actually better than anything but ET, and ET does self-damage.
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Seismic is better than Total Focus? I don't think so. I think it's identical, as is Knockout Blow.
ET is what defines the Energy set just as Rage defines Super Strength. But the real jaw-dropper is ET AFTER you've just unloaded with Total Focus.
Barrage is a fine power. I had it on auto for close to 30 levels. No complaints here.
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Seismic does the same damage as TF and does it quicker and has an equal duration status effect.
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What I always like in posts like this is that people only look at the brawl index, and not factors like power recharge/activation time, or endurance cost.
So I'm going to do something I rarely do, and back up my words with a factual avalanche. Presented below is a table of every tanker melee first power's brawl index, activation + recharge time, and endurance spent.
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Your analysis is disingenuous or ignorant. Activation time and BI are what matter for these powers at higher levels. Recharge times and end costs are basically irrelevent (not for all powers; but for powers in this tier). We could poll /En tanks about trading up to a BI of 2.778 in return for 5.5sec rech and 5.4 end. I'd expect near 100% to be in favor.
Some powers still have a use at higher levels, especially in builds which are hard pressed to free up power slots to take extra attacks, but Barrage just can't find a home in a build. The damage is too small to be relevent.
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This is just B.S i have to say.
Your poll is doscounted right here: I don't want the EM set touched. Barrage is fine. lvl 40 and STILL using it, on my Invuln/EM Tank.
Damage over time, endurance used and total front load damage all play a factor. To say they don't is to say we all remain level 1 forever. You hit level 6 inside an hour. And level 14 inside a couple days of normal play. Barrage is fine.
By the way, whirling hands is an incredible AoE power you get incredibly early. Stun, Damage in two components.
Castle, thanks for dropping the truth on us. two thumbs way down.