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Has anyone addressed the 2 second wait time after Ranged shot (where you can't attack) in Archery/ yet? I know it's in Concern and Redzero's reposts of the old consolidated issues thread, but I think it's worth repeating. No other snipe has that downtime to deal with, and I'm pretty damn sure it's a bug.
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I *think* I fixed that when I fixed it for Defenders. I tested it and it's better, but not perfect. I'll wait 'til it reaches you guys before making a final determination.
Careful Castle, that makes Stalkers, Scrappers, Defenders, and now Blasters you're looking at.
Soon no one will have anything to whine at you, and be green with envy about!
Then its back to your boring old lunch breaks where you're not buried under power bugs!
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
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Then its back to your boring old lunch breaks where you're not buried under power bugs!
[/ QUOTE ]
Naw, then I'll just go back to making PCGen .lst files for my own fun and amusement.
Actually, I'll throw one more on the barbie here:
A very, very long time ago, Statesman told us Electric Blasters that our strength was using Endurance Drain on Bosses and ArchVillains.
You may or may not be aware, but AVs are almost next to impossible to drain. I've spammed Short Circuit and Power Sink next to them and never seen so much as a budge in their Endurance Bar.
They have 800 Endurance, and insane Endurance Recovery.
Perhaps you could look at their apparent immunity to Endurance Drain.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
The intent is probably for Defenders to be way better than Blasters at endurance drain, but you're right. An Elec/Elec Blaster, using his whole suite of endurance-sapping powers, ought to at least take a significant bite out of AV endurance. For that matter, I'm not even sure Defenders can make much of a dent in AV endurance.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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The intent is probably for Defenders to be way better than Blasters at endurance drain, but you're right. An Elec/Elec Blaster, using his whole suite of endurance-sapping powers, ought to at least take a significant bite out of AV endurance. For that matter, I'm not even sure Defenders can make much of a dent in AV endurance.
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No, not even with kinetics can a defender really make a budge of AV endurance.
This led to a weird power bug with Arahkn (SP?) where she would spam an PBAOE leach that would refill her hit points. It's a power that costs 50 endurance, so the *player* version is hardly ever taken. But she was able to spam it, making it impossible for anyone to fight in melee with her at all.
This seems to be not the case (at least she doesn't spam that power anymore.)
Still here, even after all this time!
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The intent is probably for Defenders to be way better than Blasters at endurance drain, but you're right. An Elec/Elec Blaster, using his whole suite of endurance-sapping powers, ought to at least take a significant bite out of AV endurance. For that matter, I'm not even sure Defenders can make much of a dent in AV endurance.
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No, not even with kinetics can a defender really make a budge of AV endurance.
This led to a weird power bug with Arahkn (SP?) where she would spam an PBAOE leach that would refill her hit points. It's a power that costs 50 endurance, so the *player* version is hardly ever taken. But she was able to spam it, making it impossible for anyone to fight in melee with her at all.
This seems to be not the case (at least she doesn't spam that power anymore.)
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A defender, a single defender back when Perma-hasten was around could actually drain any AV that used a nuke power. The negative recovery from the nuke combined with a well slotted drain power (pre-ed) that was sped up by Perma-hasten could actually drain an AV, especially if the kinetics defender spammed it with Short Circuit and Transferrence. It took a few applications but you could do it. I know I drained Drek three times. With a Perm-Hastened Kinetics defender slotted for drain. Which is about as extreme as you can get.
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Then its back to your boring old lunch breaks where you're not buried under power bugs!
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Naw, then I'll just go back to making PCGen .lst files for my own fun and amusement.
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NERD! NEEEERD!
Just kidding.
I'm just jealous that I can't write .lst files for PCgen. It's a fine program.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
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Actually, I'll throw one more on the barbie here:
A very, very long time ago, Statesman told us Electric Blasters that our strength was using Endurance Drain on Bosses and ArchVillains.
You may or may not be aware, but AVs are almost next to impossible to drain. I've spammed Short Circuit and Power Sink next to them and never seen so much as a budge in their Endurance Bar.
They have 800 Endurance, and insane Endurance Recovery.
Perhaps you could look at their apparent immunity to Endurance Drain.
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If any secondaries need to be looked at, I'd say /Fire and /Ice are much further up on the list than /Elec.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
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Then its back to your boring old lunch breaks where you're not buried under power bugs!
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Naw, then I'll just go back to making PCGen .lst files for my own fun and amusement.
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Gimme!
Sure, I don't know the campaign at all, but I must have. Just for the twisted stalker-esque component.
That and to encourage me to make a picture of Meowth with a PCGen mockup.
Let's Dance!
Any chance we can get the aoe's for Elec/ and Energy/ Buffed? Maybe Sonic/ too. I find it odd that Claws and Spines can out aoe these sets two aoe's combined (And Elec/'s are DOT's, one of which has to be delivered in melee) once they get their level 32 powers and slot them at level 33.
I mean, sure it takes them a long time to get to 33, but to get from 33-50 takes a lot longer than from 1-33, and during that time, Energy/ and Elec/ blasters will have worse aoe damage than two Scrapper sets, while having similar (in Energy's case) single target damage, or in Elec's case... worse single target damage.
I'd also talk about Fire/ Brutes also being able to out aoe these sets two combined aoe's with JUST Fire Sword Circle, but they can't cross over to COH yet.
edit: Oh, and have you seen the single target damage capability of a Fire/ Brute? It's BLAPPER-level, and has an elemental damage component.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
With the power of AS and ET as well as resists of other Ats and our def, dramatically lower the damage of our melee damage, increase our range dmg base or cap and make the Sniper powers have a chance of getting a "headshot" with the same damage and cap of AS ^_^
hehe
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Any chance we can get the aoe's for Elec/ and Energy/ Buffed? Maybe Sonic/ too. I find it odd that Claws and Spines can out aoe these sets two aoe's combined (And Elec/'s are DOT's, one of which has to be delivered in melee) once they get their level 32 powers and slot them at level 33.
I mean, sure it takes them a long time to get to 33, but to get from 33-50 takes a lot longer than from 1-33, and during that time, Energy/ and Elec/ blasters will have worse aoe damage than two Scrapper sets, while having similar (in Energy's case) single target damage, or in Elec's case... worse single target damage.
I'd also talk about Fire/ Brutes also being able to out aoe these sets two combined aoe's with JUST Fire Sword Circle, but they can't cross over to COH yet.
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On the energy/ side, torrent is more or less fine. Its low damage, but relatively fast activation and has KB mitigation in it (although the 50% chance is about the worst possible percentage that can exist, and it really seems like the scrapper APP torrent has a much better KB effect).
Its explosive blast thats borked. Its a high level power, but it has lower damage, longer activation, slower recharge, and higher end costs than torrent. The only thing going for it really is range, and an AoE KB power like EB makes more sense as a close-up power like torent than a long range one like EB (because the knockback at such long range doesn't offer the same situational damage mitigation benefits).
Explosive blast should probably be change in one of the following ways:
1. Increase damage from 2.5 to at least 3.5
2. Decrease recharge and end costs by 33%, and reduce activation time to the same as torrent (~ 1.1 seconds)
3. Alter the knockback to 100% knockup
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Arcanaville, the knockup buff to Explosive Blast is something I really really agree with. I also think that the damage should be higher than 2.5 BI too, honestly.
Anyhow, This is copied from the Blaster and Scrapper analysis... thread:
------------------------------
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It does bother me just a little that the numbers are even close, but to be honest, I don't think the devs can really give us much more damage; blaster buffs are likely to have to come from other sources.
[/ QUOTE ] (quote from Arcanaville, regarding similarity between energy blaster and martial arts scrapper single target dps)
This is what bothers me the most too. I personally favor better recharge times in Blaster ranged attacks, more range overall (especially in the 20' near-melees) and buffing of aoe's for Energy/, Elec/, and possibly Sonic/... which I think is reasonable...
...but another thing that gets me is how situational the nukes are, and how often they're down (3 minutes with 3 recharges, and 2 minutes and 45 seconds with 3 recharges+hasten) compared to how not so useful they can be when used. One-shotting one spawn (up to 16 targets) every 3 minutes is not all that useful, particularly if you're an aoe set like Fire/ or Assault Rifle/.. not that Assault Rifle has this problem, because we get a "Nuke" that you can use every 36 seconds, for MUCH greater dps than the "boom"+total end drain+lock every 3 minutes types. Full Auto (and Rain of Arrows I guess) are NOT situational. They're set defining powers that can be used every spawn, or every other spawn on fast moving teams, and do whopping amounts of damage that make even Spines/DA types cringe. (Well if ROA for archery doesn't now, it will in I7 once Buildup and Aim can buff it...)
If you read TMS's Blaster vs Scrapper role on team thread you read lots of posts on why many Blasters don't use their nuke often or even skip it completely. Very good reasons such as how it's useless on small teams/overkill, they do enough damage already, they don't like twiddling their thumbs while waiting for the endurance lock to end while the rest of the team charges on blowing through mobs like crazy because they're a good team, it draws too much aggro and leaves to many people alive, it's not up enough to be a big factor... and such
And personally, I agree. The dps of a nuke is seriously godawful. The damage per second of a nuke at CAP (500%) is 0.3472 BI if you assume a 3 minute recharge. This makes "true" nukes more of an occaisional convenience to wipe out one spawn without effort every few minutes than a significant and consistent damage contributor to a team.
In contrast, Full Auto or Rain of Arrows at cap is 1.125 BI dps or more than triple the aoe damage per second that "true" nukes put out.
These attacks can be realistically applied to an attack chain for ludicrously devastating results.
My suggestion? This may be controversial and it may have been said before.. but I think we should get rid of "True" nukes and replace them with Full Auto/Rain of Arrows like powers.
This'd ensure that EVERY Blaster in the late game has devastating AOE's, not Just Fire/ Assault Rifle/ and Archery/
edit: I tell people that I do more damage than aim+buildup+nova (45 BI) every 36 seconds with buildup+flamethrower+buckshot OR m30 grenade+Full auto.
This is true, I do 47 BI (pre-resists) every 45 seconds as opposed to I dunno... 3 minutes? aim+buildup+fistful of arrows+explosive arrow+rain of arrows will do 50 BI in I7, if I remember correctly. Sure it's not all in one burst, and you can only do it to 10 targets at a time, but if you have a team to provide good aggro control (as you're supposed to), that's not that much of an issue considering the sheer amount of pwnage you can put out.
Hell, I personally can pump out buildup+flamethrower+buckshot+m30+full auto very consistenyl, that's 55 BI or approximately 120% of the damage of aim+buildup+nova every 45 seconds.
Which is why I'm calling for this drastic change to Nukes. Why use "True" nukes when "wannabe" nukes are better?
further edit: and about how much lethal damage is resisted... notice that since the DPS of "faux" nukes is over -3- times the dps of "true" nukes?
Even if you cut that dps in half to compensate for the many lethal-resistant mobs who do cut lethal damage in half... the dps is still 1.5 times better than that of a true nuke, and these faux nukes don't drain all your endurance and lock it either.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
There is a delay on the AR snipe, as well, but its not as bad.
Adam Seven, MA/Regen, Lvl50
Warboy, AR/Energy, Lvl50
Sammy Sorrow, Dark/Energy, lvl44
Cariosus, DB/Will Brute, Lvl50
Myriad, Mercs/Traps, Lvl 42
So many others...
"From the cradle bars
comes a beckoning voice
it sends you spinning
you have no choice...... "
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Then its back to your boring old lunch breaks where you're not buried under power bugs!
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Naw, then I'll just go back to making PCGen .lst files for my own fun and amusement.
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Dude, you really are a glutton for punishment. I've done some .lst files, they are a royal pain.
I hope _Castle_ picked this up too, because I would like see the response as I am sure more than a few other people would be as well considering that many of the questions embody the core of some very heated and very long and repeated threads. Reposting this here because the everything seems to be migrating here and the other thread is apparently dieing off.
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I can explain why some things work the way they do.
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Ok.
Why do Blaster have so many Melee-centric attacks (melee or near-melee PBAoEs) when they are suppose to be a Ranged focused combatant? Does this not create an un-synergistic Archtype?
What is the purpose of the range disparities between longer range powers (excluding Snipe attack) in the same power sets like charge bolt and lightning bolt or Burst, Slug, and M30 Grenade other than to annoy the player? Is there any real, purposeful or effective consideration here that contributes to game balance or play in any significant manner?
Explain the support logic and fallacies behind "Range = Defense" theory. How is this balance out with defenders and controllers who also have range as well as support/defense powers?
The power curve of Blasters start off strong in early levels, flatline at about midlevel, and fall off at high levels in comparison to other Archtypes and MOBs. Is this veiwed as a problem? Is there any way to fix the power curve at the higher levels and how would it have to be done? Does not Defiance exaggerate this trend?
MOB ranges scale with level. Especially at high levels, Mobs can attack a Blaster without the Blaster even being at his/her most extreme range and well outside his or her mean range. Is there any real purpose to this?
What do blaster get, being a primary combatant, for not having a support/defense powers to defend against aggro and mitagate damage?
What is your view of the community's response to the inherent power of Defiance, and how do you think it compares with other inherents and the reaction of other Archtype communities to their inherents?
It has been mentioned by Statesman that there was work being done on reworking Blaster Secondaries with the option to respec into the new Secondaries. Is there a timeline and has any work progressed on this?
Perception is a new aspect to the game that is becoming more important and intergrated into the game play. Being aware of your situation is vitally important for Blasters. Can you discuss this and if it would be important for Blaster to have high levels of Perception and if so how it could be done?
Regarding Elec/Elec
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Balance: This set was supposed to be killer in PvP but we understand that isn't the case. The damage seems to be lacking. Most notably, it has only two single target attacks and a snipe.
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It probably was killier in PvP - which is why it got balanced downward. Powersink is (or at least was) auto-hit and could rip out most all endurance. Serious tank killer, that one, especially if Short Circuit follows it to lock endurance down. And remember that, in order for the arena match to 'really count' you had to do it starting with 0 endurance and no inspires. <drool>
I can see why endurance drain was quatered. However, we also got hit with several powers out there that could give resistance to endurance drain (like O2 Boost). Plus the whole no-inspire thing never materialized to my knowledge. I think we got over-balanced. Honestly, it seems far easier to me to just kill off an enemy. Maybe, just possibly, I might do well against a tank with it but that requires getting into melee range and surviving for a good while.
(Watch out for that top level Ice corruptor power, though. AoE endurance drain could work out very very different.)
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Endurance drain is an all-or-nothing gamble on the Blaster's part. It is said to be in design that enemies do not use certain attacks once their endurance drops below a certain point, but this is rarely noticed as the enemies have an impressive amount of endurance recovery. The only way the drain is often effective is that the enemy's endurance recovery is also killed, which is much more difficult to come by. (This is much more an issue in PvE than PvP.)
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I haven't done it much since I6 and ED but that's not what I was seeing at all. Power Sink + Short Circuit = heavily porked enemies. Particularly bosses which have much more endurance heavy attacks. Some enemy types are more endurance hungry than others - keep your eye on their bars and you'll quickly learn which is which. (For instance, Freakshow self-rez'ing tend to pop up with half endurance to start. Easy pickins!)
Now against AVs, that's another matter. You may as well not have endurance drain against the monsters and AVs. I'm not sure about elite bosses or AVs-reduced-to-elite-boss.
I should give proper credit to, and I believe the name was SFC_Stanley for making and compiling that list. I know a lot of work went into it and that he was particularly disappointed when it was not picked up after several weeks. I mearly saved it before it disappeared into the digital black hole of deletion in hopes that this day would come for it to be reposted and have his work vindicated to some degree.
BTW, does anyone know if he is still around or has left (or if I even have the spelled right?)
I know who you're talking about, but I don't know if he's still around.
It's SFC_Staley I believe, probably his actual real life rank and name. As Sergeant First Class (SFC) is an army rank (E-7) and he did say he was a Platoon sergeant, and these are usually SFC's. I don't think he's around anymore. He hasn't posted in a very long time and the few posts he does have in these forums have almost been eaten.
There's a good chance with the war going on that he's very busy with something or another. Even if he didn't get deployed to the front, he might be very busy (especially considering that he's in a position of leadership) supporting the effort, or doing extra work at a base to pick up the slack for units that might be deployed.
Wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.
Anyhow, my numbers above for Full Auto/Rain of Arrows combos vs Nukes is a little off up there.
Correction:
Without hasten, full auto/rain of arrows combos can only be pulled off every 45 seconds, as opposed to 3 minutes.
With hasten, full auto/rain of arrows combos can be pulled off every 36 seconds, but nukes can be used every 2 minutes and 45 seconds (2.75 minutes) which is a small difference (my overall points are still correct) but correct nontheless.
edit: these numbers have been fixed in my previous post here.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
Heck, I think I can take a shot at some of those, Red Zero:
The first two (melee powers and range differences) are really the same question. Why can't a blaster just stand at some max range and blast away with all powers? Because that would make them too strong. With it this way then you've got levels of strength according to range. You can stand out at 80ft and do reasonable damage. Get a little closer and you can use a few more. Get up close and personal and you can dish out some very heavy damage. It's far more dangerous close up, however. (Assuming you haven't held/drained all the remaining enemies.)
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What do blaster get, being a primary combatant, for not having a support/defense powers to defend against aggro and mitagate damage?
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1. You do more damage.
or
1. You do reasonable damage at range, thus taking much less damage yourself. (You definitely take much less damage from many enemy types at range.)
2. You can mitigate damage. Many blasters have holds and/or stuns and/or knockback.
P.S. Timelines from Cryptic are rare and subject to vast change. See the history of the Super Secret Non-Combat System. Oh, and the I7 info won't be posted for another two weeks. Such is the nature of programming.
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Actually, I'll throw one more on the barbie here:
A very, very long time ago, Statesman told us Electric Blasters that our strength was using Endurance Drain on Bosses and ArchVillains.
You may or may not be aware, but AVs are almost next to impossible to drain. I've spammed Short Circuit and Power Sink next to them and never seen so much as a budge in their Endurance Bar.
They have 800 Endurance, and insane Endurance Recovery.
Perhaps you could look at their apparent immunity to Endurance Drain.
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If any secondaries need to be looked at, I'd say /Fire and /Ice are much further up on the list than /Elec.
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The comment about the strength being draining bosses and AVs was about electric blast, not electric manipulation. The primary, not secondary. Short circuit takes power sink out back and whups it ten ways till Sunday when it comes to drain, and it's the electric blast set that's weak because of the supposed power of drain. You're right, electric manipulation's got nice enough damage to sit fairly pretty.
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Regarding Elec/Elec
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Endurance drain is an all-or-nothing gamble on the Blaster's part. It is said to be in design that enemies do not use certain attacks once their endurance drops below a certain point, but this is rarely noticed as the enemies have an impressive amount of endurance recovery. The only way the drain is often effective is that the enemy's endurance recovery is also killed, which is much more difficult to come by. (This is much more an issue in PvE than PvP.)
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I haven't done it much since I6 and ED but that's not what I was seeing at all. Power Sink + Short Circuit = heavily porked enemies. Particularly bosses which have much more endurance heavy attacks. Some enemy types are more endurance hungry than others - keep your eye on their bars and you'll quickly learn which is which. (For instance, Freakshow self-rez'ing tend to pop up with half endurance to start. Easy pickins!)
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One thing to note about full drain as mitigation: it is only perfectly effective when coupled with -recovery. Short circuit's -recovery lasts 10 seconds, I believe. Base recharge is something like 20 seconds. Technically, if you used your 3 non-endmod slots for recharge, you could keep this applied almost full-time (they'd have recovery active for the 3 seconds you animate), though it'd become quite an endurance hog. But let's look at why you need the -recovery to fully mitigate:
Without -recovery, enemies are still regenerating. They do so a chunk at a time, in the familliar "tick" pattern. Every few seconds, it ticks up, until they have enough to attack. Frankly, it's my experience that an electric blast blaster without access to lightning field (and I imagine that the timing rarely works perfectly with it, either), cannot rely on their attacks to counteract these ticks effectively. They either are timed wrong, or miss, but either way, the enemy gets a chance to get a shot in with its cheap attack.
Herein lies the problem. Cheap attacks for the enemy can be very damaging. Minions are the worst culprits. Way back when, I did some testing, and found that the average power a minion could use off one tick of endurance recovery did roughly 3/4s of the damage of the power he'd prefer to use when full. So full drain with no -recovery is good for 25% damage mitigation from minions -- keep in mind, you've already taken at least an unmitigated alpha strike while you drained them.
Bosses are a bit better. They tend to do about half their normal damage with their cheap, one-tick attacks. That's a heftier amount per-hit than minions, still, but presumably there's fewer bosses (and conversely, you've mitigated more per hit off a boss). Lieutenants fall somewhere in the middle, no suprise there.
So it seems that drain was balanced off the idea that it would take away a hefty amount of a boss's or lieutenant's dps, but the mob of minions would still be collectively dangerous. This makes sense if you assume the blaster is good at quickly eliminating the minions anyways with AEs. But, as ArcSalvo and I have pointed out in this thread, electric is one of the weaker AE sets. It's neither overwhelming in its damage, nor is the damage delivered quickly -- those minions will be shooting/swinging at you for a good long time while the damage ticks away on your ball lightning/short circuit combo.
But wait, did I say damage ticks away on the short circuit combo? Why, yes, I did. Here's the other problem with slotting recharge on short circuit -- it directly interferes with your AE damage capability, since you also have to slot endurance modification. You can forgo the constant -recovery and retain your damage, hoping you have a teammate to out-aggro and soak the incoming damage while your DoTs go to work, or you can slot recharge in an effort to sustain the -recovery more frequently, and find your ability to AE meager.
While we're on the subject, short circuit as a drain tool is a very late-maturing power. It's available at level 6, yet I could never recommend taking it before 20 with a good conscience. Well, perhaps if you were merely interested in the damage, but that seems pretty odd for a blaster and a PBAE DoT...
Perhaps several birds could be killed with one stone by increasing the base drain of short circuit to either current slotted levels or higher (considering it never got a bump to mitigate ED -- people used to 6-slot drain, and I feel for the poor /devices, /ice, and /fire saps who can no longer, and don't have drain-synergizing powers in their secondary to pick up the slack), in exchange for removing the ability to enhance drain in this attack. This would allow a damage/recharge slotting to be a sensible, if costly, option, without increasing the potential drain inordinately.
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Also let me add that I'm in total agreement with Concern about one specific thing: The snide question about us having a thread with our complaints. There have been more than enough of these threads posted since 2004 without a single Dev response. Players have spent hours testing and posting numbers that prove Blaster powersets are broken. Those types of threads are not uncommon in this forum and it's in very taste to even make a remark that suggests otherwise.
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More than enough, sure. And thus, very scattered. I asked for a consolidated list so I would not have to sort through multiple threads for it. Was I flippant about it? Yes. Was it meant as an insult? No.
I try to keep a light tone in my posts, and I meant that post as a gentle ribbing over something that was untrue. I am sorry if you took that as an insult.
More to the point, I grabbed Red Zero's list and Revolver Laws list and will be going over them. Thanks for reposting them (both here, and in the other thead.)