Alright, great suggestions so far, guys. Now is anyone going to sweep 'em up, summarize them, and add them to the old consolidated list in a new post?
I think we've gotten enough new stuff (that isn't a repetition of the old stuffo n the list) to revise it and repost it.
I'd do it myself, but am too busy irl with schoolwork.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
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Bitter Freeze Ray is a power that's routinely skipped, and when it is taken, its only real use is a combat opener, much like a snipe however it does really low damage incomparison to one too...
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BFR's animation used to be shared with Twilight Grasp, but it was changed because the animation made it too difficult to use TG as a heal.
I suspect that BFR's long recharge/animation was intended to balance the fact that Ice has two single-target holds, which allowed you to hold a boss right off the bat.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Bitter Freeze Ray is a power that's routinely skipped, and when it is taken, its only real use is a combat opener, much like a snipe however it does really low damage incomparison to one too...
[/ QUOTE ]
BFR's animation used to be shared with Twilight Grasp, but it was changed because the animation made it too difficult to use TG as a heal.
I suspect that BFR's long recharge/animation was intended to balance the fact that Ice has two single-target holds, which allowed you to hold a boss right off the bat.
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But you still can hold them "right off the bat" if you open with bfr. I think bfr's animation is to balance its longer ranger, much more damage, and I believe stronger (in mag) hold.
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Bitter Freeze Ray is a power that's routinely skipped, and when it is taken, its only real use is a combat opener, much like a snipe however it does really low damage incomparison to one too...
[/ QUOTE ]
BFR's animation used to be shared with Twilight Grasp, but it was changed because the animation made it too difficult to use TG as a heal.
I suspect that BFR's long recharge/animation was intended to balance the fact that Ice has two single-target holds, which allowed you to hold a boss right off the bat.
[/ QUOTE ]
But you still can hold them "right off the bat" if you open with bfr. I think bfr's animation is to balance its longer ranger, much more damage, and I believe stronger (in mag) hold.
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Well, how many powersets have two single-target holds?
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
All im saying is that I think bfr's animation is to balance the power for reasons other then there is another hold in the set. Ice is all about redundancy (ice blast/bitter ice blast, fr/bfr, ice storm/blizzard). If that logic held true, they would for example have to balance bib with some kind of penalty.
Not so much as an issue but one energy blasters opinion.
I LIKE the knockback in fact I prefer it to knockdown, knockdown is silly for energy blasts they have POWER and send things flying back from the sheer force of them.
It would just hamper us further to have to slot knockback enhancements to get our previous functionality back, knockback is usefull it gets them AWAY from us and keeps melee from happening which lets us blast.
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Careful Castle, that makes Stalkers, Scrappers, Defenders, and now Blasters you're looking at.
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So if i have a 50 in each of those sets, will i get the "_Castle_" accolade badge? =)
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Not so much as an issue but one energy blasters opinion.
I LIKE the knockback in fact I prefer it to knockdown, knockdown is silly for energy blasts they have POWER and send things flying back from the sheer force of them.
It would just hamper us further to have to slot knockback enhancements to get our previous functionality back, knockback is usefull it gets them AWAY from us and keeps melee from happening which lets us blast.
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Or it lets you close into melee and deliver a fully-charged Bonesmasher onto a foe while he's struggling to get up. Both strategies work.
I love knockback. I'd hate to have to waste a slot on knockback enhancements to get the same effect I get out of my blasts as they are.
Windlacer, I'm suggesting changing knockback to knockdown on AOE's only, if that hasn't been clear before. An Energy Blaster can be counted on to eliminate single targets they knock back (generally speaking) and this makes single target knockback not a problem imho. It's the knockback on the AOE's (particularly Explosive Blast, which should honestly be changed to knock-UP imho) that make me boggle. And I'd like to see Energy Torrent changed to knockdown (knockback with 1 knockback enhancer) but with a slightly higher chance of the knockdown effect taking place.
Anyhow, regarding Nukes again:
I've shown that with aoe chaining, "fake" nukes are able to do the same damage as "real" ones, but 4 times as often and without draining all your endurance to boot (which allows you to mop up along with the rest of your team for even more damage)
This makes me conclude that "True" Nukes are unbalanced right now.
I suggested previously that all nukes should be changed into psuedo-nukes like Full Auto and Rain of Arrows, but realize that this solution isnt' palatable to many people, players and devs included.
So I'd like to propose an alternate solution:
Changing the recharge timers for "true" nukes from 6 minutes to at least 4.
To oversimplify a little bit: right now, Assault Rifle (and Archery/ in Issue 7) can do nuke-level damage every 45 seconds (with aim and buildup 3-slotted for recharge and Full Auto/Rain of Arrows 2-slotted for recharge, with the limiting factor being the slow recharge of aim/buildup rather than Full Auto/Rain of Arrows)
Real Nukes, as I've said, can do this damage every 3 minutes.
If you divide 45 seconds into 3 minutes, you find out that you can use pseudo-nuke combos 4 times for every 1 time a True nuke can be used, allowing psuedo-nuke users to do 4 times the aoe damage per second. Even if you cut that damage in half because it's all or mostly lethal/smashing damage (with a little bit of fire on the Assault Rifle side) to account for how badly they can be resisted at times (which again, is an oversimplification...) fake nuke aoe combos still do 2 times the dps as real ones.
If you reduced true nuke recharge timers to 4 minutes, it'd be a 2 minute recharge 3-slotted with recharge SO's, which would mean that the psuedo-nukers could only get in 2.66 (more like 2, realistically speaking) aoe combos in between "True Nuke" usages.
And if you cut psuedo-nuke combo damage in half to account for all the lethal/smashing resistance, that makes psuedo-nuke combos and real nukes roughly even-ish in terms of damage per second.
Not absolutely even, but I think that "Real" nukes have some advantages that psuedo-nuke aoe combos don't, including:
A. Instantaneous activation (it's all in one boom, meaning it's easier to use solo, you hit everyone at once and so don't have to painstakingly line up 3 separate aoe's in the time of aim+buildup and hope you don't fumble or miss)
B. Elemental/Energy damage type (not so well resisted, so large groups of +con robots won't make you cry...)
C. The ability to hit 6 more targets, 16 instead of 10 (most team-sized spawns don't have more than 10 targets, and those spawns that do have more tend to be almost all minions... but bad pulls and sudden ambushes/etc. do happen and in these cases, being able to hit 6 more targets instantaneously with that much damage is very useful)
So anyhow, in a nutshell, if we want to leave True Nukes and Fake nukes as is (concept/execution wise), this is why I think True Nukes should have their recharge timers shortened.
In addition to closing the aoe dps gap between True Nukes and Fake ones, I also think that this would subtly address the "Blasters being overshadowed by Scrappers in the late game" issue a little bit as well.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
Also, let me say that I'd like the 20' attacks to be buffed to 50' (like Bitter Ice Blast) to allow them to be more easily chained with other longer-ranged singles, and also because it just feels "even" (if you're obsessive compulsive like me) to have the high-powered third blasts in every primary be 50' like Bitter Ice Blast.
That and adding one range SO to 50' adds +10', and 10' is such a nice and even, psychologically satisfying number to add as a range increment.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
How many pages does it take for a dev response?? LOL they say consolidate yet they show no action, no response. Hmm maybe if i put the game under my pillow a fairy will show up and fix it... got a better chance with this idea than a dev!!!
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How many pages does it take for a dev response?? LOL they say consolidate yet they show no action, no response. Hmm maybe if i put the game under my pillow a fairy will show up and fix it... got a better chance with this idea than a dev!!!
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Aw, don't worry about it Crallen. Castle's on the job.
_Castle_
If he can get Claws/ fixed, he can fix anything. Well... him and the other less vocal devs (that he mentioned) who also help to fix things, anyway.
You can rest assured that they are reading this thread and the other threads on Blaster issues (particularly the Blaster vs. Scrapper threads out there) right now, and can expect a response not "soon"... but rather, "eventually".
We brought up a lot of interesting and highly complex issues that's going to take a lot of number-crunching and thought to figure out, and then they're going to have to make tough decisions on what to do on that information, and what changes they can realistically make based on them.
This is not an easy task, so you can expect some wait before they respond conclusively. They may respond "soon"-ish, but probably not with that much info, as it'll take 'em a long time to start drawing out a plan of action.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
[ QUOTE ]
If that logic held true, they would for example have to balance bib with some kind of penalty.
[/ QUOTE ]
No Snipe.
I would assume that BFR has a long animation because it Holds and does Damage from a good Range and stacks with the 1 second animation Hold that lacks damage and the range of BFR.
As for issues, I cannont see any issues with Ice/Ice Blasters, especially after I7s reported fix to Rains. The only problem I have is the increased resistance to Knockdown and Slow effects when fighting higher level enemies, but that is in place for balance, so I can live with it.
I think Fire/ and /Fire have a few issues and could easily be resolved by giving Fire's DoT some sort of limited DeBuff, like -Acc as an example. This would, of course, need to be applied on a per power basis, not a sweeping change as the devs are used to doing. EDIT: Oh yeah. Flares. OMG something needs to be done with this skill. Half the animation or buff the damage, do something!!
AR/ and /Dev need some mad lovin, and I think RLs OP sums up much of the issues there.
I think Elec's End Drain needs to be buffed up big time to make it a viable tactic in both PvE and PvP. If a player can get out of a mez with a Break Free, then a player can recover from End Drain with a CaB. Heck, give CaBs a buff vs End Drain in PvP, similar to how Break Frees work.
Energy I think is working fine. As with Ice, both are good viable forces to be reconned with.
Cyclone Jack
-= idspispopd =-
[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
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Windlacer, I'm suggesting changing knockback to knockdown on AOE's only, if that hasn't been clear before.
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Actually, if the devs *were* to make a change, and I had the choice, I would make single target attacks knockdown and preserve knockback for AoEs, not the other way around.
The reason is that with single target attacks, the primary benefit of knock is the momentary damage mitigation, and I can at least make a credible attempt at chain knocking. But if I hit a group with torrent, I want them all pushed back, because I can only continue to apply KB to one of them; I'd like the others to be unable to close to melee range while I do. I'm in favor of increasing the KB percentage on torrent, but not suppressing it to knockdown.
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[ QUOTE ]
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Windlacer, I'm suggesting changing knockback to knockdown on AOE's only, if that hasn't been clear before.
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Actually, if the devs *were* to make a change, and I had the choice, I would make single target attacks knockdown and preserve knockback for AoEs, not the other way around.
The reason is that with single target attacks, the primary benefit of knock is the momentary damage mitigation, and I can at least make a credible attempt at chain knocking. But if I hit a group with torrent, I want them all pushed back, because I can only continue to apply KB to one of them; I'd like the others to be unable to close to melee range while I do. I'm in favor of increasing the KB percentage on torrent, but not suppressing it to knockdown.
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Even if the knockdown were buffable to knockback with just 1 Knockback Enhancement? I don't think I need to tell you that if Torrent was changed to knockdown, but with a higher chance for the knockdown to hit, and then you added a knockback enhancer to change it back to knockback again, that you'd have a better Energy Torrent than before if you wanted a greater % chance to knock enemies back with the power.
Anyhow, as long as they change the radial knockback in Explosive Blast to knockdown or knock-up, I'm happy.
That's the power I find myself having the most trouble with in teams.
I just think that changing Torrent into knockdown (but buffable to knockback) would be better in general for control-freaks who don't want to ruin team locational aoe strategies.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
[ QUOTE ]
Even if the knockdown were buffable to knockback with just 1 Knockback Enhancement? I don't think I need to tell you that if Torrent was changed to knockdown, but with a higher chance for the knockdown to hit, and then you added a knockback enhancer to change it back to knockback again, that you'd have a better Energy Torrent than before if you wanted a greater % chance to knock enemies back with the power.
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Not the way I use it. The way I use it, its slotted 1 acc 3 dmg 2 rech. Replacing at least one recharge with KB would be a penalty on me. Plus, torrent as it is allows me to knock back several in a group, and then target with single target attacks the one that isn't. Its tactically a better situation than knocking all of them down, and then still having to pick the one you want to shoot while all the others are getting up and still close by.
I'd take percentage increase and leave the rest alone myself.
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Just two comments.
1. Knock back in engery...I like it the way it is. If it were to be changed I would prefer it to be through the addition of a knock down enhancment. My feelings is that its nothing more than preception...If you know how to use knock back its a lot better than knock down.
2. Sinper attacks in general could us a buff. 7.5 braw for a 3 sec animation thats interrruptable for 15ish end. Being locked into place is dangerous, and with it being interruptable doesn't make it on par with other range attacks and our melee attacks. Prime example is the effectiveness of Bone Smasher. Right now its much better to blitz with melee frist and follow up with short range solo. In groups, tank/scrapper takes frist punch followed by AoE onslought. Single targets are used for clean up. Snipe isn't necessary for pulling. It does poor damage if you are considering DOT and burst damage. Its purpose needs to be readdressed.
In regard to the arguments over particular skills not being worth the animation time they take to deliver, this has been a long-standing request of mine to the devs:
Include animation time in your power balance calculation.
For those of you who don't know, geko has explained some of his power balance work here on the boards in the past - he's got an excel spreadsheet with all of them listed out and a ton of calculations to show how much damage something should do, how much endurance it should cost, and how much recharge it should have in reference to similar powers. The one thing that I noted that was missing from this calculation? Animation time - the time it takes to use the power... which is a very large part in how people build their characters, a big matter in gameplay, and quite often the difference between one set and the next. (See Archery / Claw's woes and why people love Ice/, Dark Melee, and Energy Melee / Manip.) It has also been addressed several times in powers that have suffered from it before - Katana back in Issue 2, for example, and Twilight Grasp. Any set - any power, at that - that is supposed to be a quick use, quick recharge low-effect ability should be quick to use.
@Shenalia
Triumph: Ion Force (SG)
Victory: Evil Triumphs (VG)
Proud member of the Triumphant Defenders Coalition.
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In regard to the arguments over particular skills not being worth the animation time they take to deliver, this has been a long-standing request of mine to the devs:
Include animation time in your power balance calculation.
For those of you who don't know, geko has explained some of his power balance work here on the boards in the past - he's got an excel spreadsheet with all of them listed out and a ton of calculations to show how much damage something should do, how much endurance it should cost, and how much recharge it should have in reference to similar powers. The one thing that I noted that was missing from this calculation? Animation time - the time it takes to use the power... which is a very large part in how people build their characters, a big matter in gameplay, and quite often the difference between one set and the next. (See Archery / Claw's woes and why people love Ice/, Dark Melee, and Energy Melee / Manip.) It has also been addressed several times in powers that have suffered from it before - Katana back in Issue 2, for example, and Twilight Grasp. Any set - any power, at that - that is supposed to be a quick use, quick recharge low-effect ability should be quick to use.
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It should be included. It *has* to be included, or balance gets horribly thrown off (i.e. Trick Arrow). But there is a reason why it *isn't* included.
At the moment, activation times and animation times are strongly coupled, and animations cannot be changed on the fly by the game engine. So animation times cannot be tweaked by the power designers to balance powers - they can change the damage index with a push of a button, but it takes an act of god to change the animation of a power.
Set a power activation too long, and the set can underperform with little way to fix it. Set a power activation too short, and the set can outperform strongly with little way to fix it short of hitting it with harsh recharge penalties (which will make the set underperform, especially at lower levels).
But what that does mean is that the designers really have to be very careful when initially creating power sets, to make sure that the animation times won't create problems, and whenever they get a chance to redo the animations of a power set, they should be really be careful to design carefully - because they tend to be so set in stone.
Altering the game engine to allow for (small) adjustments to activation/animations is probably one of those things far far down the road but possibly one of those things that would convey a huge benefit to power balancing in the long run.
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[ QUOTE ]
It should be included. It *has* to be included, or balance gets horribly thrown off (i.e. Trick Arrow). But there is a reason why it *isn't* included.
At the moment, activation times and animation times are strongly coupled, and animations cannot be changed on the fly by the game engine. So animation times cannot be tweaked by the power designers to balance powers - they can change the damage index with a push of a button, but it takes an act of god to change the animation of a power.
Set a power activation too long, and the set can underperform with little way to fix it. Set a power activation too short, and the set can outperform strongly with little way to fix it short of hitting it with harsh recharge penalties (which will make the set underperform, especially at lower levels).
But what that does mean is that the designers really have to be very careful when initially creating power sets, to make sure that the animation times won't create problems, and whenever they get a chance to redo the animations of a power set, they should be really be careful to design carefully - because they tend to be so set in stone.
Altering the game engine to allow for (small) adjustments to activation/animations is probably one of those things far far down the road but possibly one of those things that would convey a huge benefit to power balancing in the long run.
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I understand and agree with you 100% on this. In the meanwhile, though, they should balance the numbers they can change to match with the animation / activation times the powers are now stuck with. Whether this means making some powers very low in endurance cost (Swipe in Claws, Flares, etc.), making them more potent for the time allowed, or even lowering their effectiveness slightly (noting Energy Transfer here might piss off some people, but hey - it's true)... it should be addressed. Quickly. When they can adjust the actual animations / activations, they should do so, but it shouldn't be left to sit in the meantime.
@Shenalia
Triumph: Ion Force (SG)
Victory: Evil Triumphs (VG)
Proud member of the Triumphant Defenders Coalition.
While we're on the subject I'd like to nominate Shout as a power that could use a little tweaking. It's short range with a horribly long animation time. There is a follow through motion after the power hits that is the main culprit. Removing or reducing the time on the follow through would be a great help. Until then my Sonic corrupter will continue to neglect it in his attack chain, it's just too slow and too dangerous.
I think, overall, that most of the good points have already been made. However, I'd like to go over (and rehash in a couple cases) some of the dilemmas in the /fire secondary set. I can only speak for this set, as it's my only blaster AT at the moment.
Ring of Fire:
This isn't really a problem power, per se, except that many enemies can avoid the immobilize aspect of the power. Try using it on any large enemy (as in most bosses, any large minions like Abominations and Embalmed Aboninations, etc) and you notice that they may take damage, but they aren't stopped.
Combustion:
Utterly useless. I can do more damage faster when I hit fire sword circle. As others have already said - the damage is DoT which is fatal to a blaster. Couple that with the slow animation and minimal damage and you have a power that really doesn't work.
Blazing Aura:
I have this power on my tank. I love it. But I wouldn't imagine using it on my blaster as it just further angers mobs that are already too close for comfort.
Hot Feet:
I agree with the other posters who have said this power would be of more use if it weren't the level 36 power.
Rain of Fire:
I LOVE this power, except for two things - one is the unbuffable nature of the power (which, I believe, was partially patched recently). Even SO damage enhancements don't seem to affect the damage done by this power. The other issue is the fear aspect - it seems that before any meaningful damage has been done, the MOB has fled the effect area.
Overall:
Blasters are meant to keep enemies at a distance and unleash their damage from there. However, as others have pointed out, most groups have higher range and can close in to melee while a Blaster is rooted trying to fire attacks. What would be useful is some level of immobilization for groups to keep them at a distance. Giving an auxilliary soft-immobilization power to the /fire set would make it much more attractive and useful.
That's my two cents, at least.
On a side note - thanks _Castle_ for taking the time to review these issues.
I haven't been able to read through this whole thing yet, but here are some ideas for Electric blast and Electric Manipulation:
Electric Blast:
Charged Bolts - Reduce animation time, make it similar to the rad blast of just a palm thrust, increase range slightly, and include maybe a 1 second -endrec to it. Take away rooting
Lightning Bolt - Solid attack,make it unrooted, -2 second endrec to it, makes the end drain count more
Ball Lightning - Unroot, slight BI higher b/c it is has about the same dmg as Charged Bolts but 3x cost. .5 second -endrec per tick
Short Circuit - I would really love if this power was just short ranged, like 40', but I doubt that would happen, so fix the bug of enemies seeing it and raise the PvP end drain to 33-40%
Aim - Leave as is
Zapp - has to stay rooted, but make it have 3-5 seconds of no end recovery to make it the powerhouse it should be
Tesla Cage - Love this power, maybe unrooted but might make it too powerful. .5-1 second -endrecovery
Voltiac Sentinal - Gah, so many things wrong. Raise dmg output, either make it an actual pet the can draw aggro and maybe shoot a Tesla cage/Ball lighting or two, or make it a 3rd ranged blast
Thunderous Blast - Love it with all my heart, as is with maybe a 5-6 second -endrec to enemies. Stay rooted
Electric Manipulation
Electric Fence - Not much to say, unroot it
Charged Brawl - Have sleep% same a /nrg
Lightning Field - uhg, I hate this thing. My idea to replace it is with Quickness from the /SR, but call it something else. It gives more creedance to the supercharged feel of /elec
Havoc Punch - See Charged Brawl
Build Up - as is
Lightning Clap - another power I hated getting when I was a noob. A extreme measure is make it like Thunger clap from the storm set or replace it with a Shield with status protection
Thunder Strike - Make dis% same as total focus
Power Sink - Love this power. Increase end drain % and maybe a slight -rec on it, maybe 1 sec
Shocking Grasp - Increase BI just slightly, and if you want it to be a real end all power, tack on a 1 second -endred for each tick
Bascially my ideas were not only should we end drain, but its the -rec that would really make us more powerful. Also I would really like have a 3rd attack or a actual pet
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Blazing Aura:
I have this power on my tank. I love it. But I wouldn't imagine using it on my blaster as it just further angers mobs that are already too close for comfort.
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Blazing aura for blasters should do the opposite thing that it does for tankers: BA should induce fear, much like burn does. That's logical, and would benefit blasters more (i.e. if a foe enters into melee range, they are compelled to run away for a certain amount of time, without attacking).
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Arcanna, I am very much in agreement that blasters should have their attack chains pretty much laid down by the time they hit their teens but I don't think that blasters need situational powers in addition to what they already have in their secondary.
What you described as a replacement to nova is something that I would consider a great secondary power. I think that blasters can have a good attack chain starting out and then as the levels progress pick up powers that can be helpfull in certain situations. The final powers though should allow them to basicaly upgrade their ranged attack chain at a time when they really need that attack chain to be strong enough to deal with the masses of mezzing mobs.
I am with you in regards to making the first powers the bread and butter, I just think that the bread and butter can get better as time goes on.
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I don't so much disagree with this sentiment as I have a parallel one. I have an aesthetic dislike for a situation where, say, we could make a full attack chain with power bolt, power blast, and torrent at low levels, and then eventually, we can "upgrade" that chain to power blast, power burst, (new) nova. It orphans powers and takes up power slots. I'd much rather "upgrades" come in the form of self buffs, like build up. So I see "upgrades" mostly coming from the secondary: build up, boost range, power boost, conserve power, for example. In effect, I'd rather have my power bolt work better over time, than have my power bolt replaced with a "better" power.
Doing it that way gives us more options to put other powers in the primary that are there just for variety's sake - either situational powers, or powers that aren't necessarily "better" or "worse" but are subject to player taste (i.e. TK verses CAK in the MA set).
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Exactly. One of the best things about City of Heroes is that you don't have a mess of bland "upgrades" that do the same thing as something you already have, only better. You get a power at level 1, you use it all the way to level 50, and it stays useful and effective, though enhancements and coupling it with other stuff.
I don't want to get into a replace mode. Some scrappers are already like this, and I don't like it. I see a lot of builds posts on the scrapper boards that basically take very few attacks pre-, say, 18. This just seems like exploiting respeccability, and tends to indicate that some sets in there are going against the CoH mantra of "high level powers = specificity not just more overall power."
I don't want to see blasters fall into that.
I agree -- help our early attacks build a better chain on their own, and then we can afford to do more situational stuff at the top.
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I understand what both of you are driving at.
I look to scrappers for insperation though when it comes to attack chains simply because they have some very good ones. When players usually say to skip low level attack powers it is usually to pick up a power pool power that may cost more endurance but is better for a variety of reasons. I see very few builds that advocate taking only a few attacks except for perhaps DM but DM can make an attack chain out of all of it's straight damage powers and cycle in it's powerfull powers as they recharge.
Which is what I was looking at in terms of blasters. Sure they get their regular chain starting out but then when they hit the end-game they get their stronger slower recharging powers that they will be able to cycle in as a normal part of their attack chain, not replacing powers so much as displacing them for a short period of time. You couldn't simply make an attack chain with nothing but strong powers, you would have gaps where you would need those quick rechargeing minor attacks.
I also see how Arcana would like the set to play. More of a bag of tricks set than a set that just throws the damage out there non-stop. The secondary would provide the tricks and the primary would deliver them. The /Eng secondary I imagine is what he would like to model the other secondary sets after. Perhaps /Eng with some changes to focus the primary a bit more on range.
Oddly enough, I proposed a defender primary set that would be based off of a similar philosophy. Since they have the power now to make buffs affect other powers, I thought it would be neat if you could make an all self-buff primary that allowed you to give secondary debuff effects to your secondary attack set. Like a Click buff that added slow to your next few attacks for 4 seconds, or something like that. I thought it would have been interesting but the concept was deemed overpowered.