Not once, not twice, but three times...
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2006-01-10 16:26 in Developers' Corner
I do not find the game to be too easy in its current incarnation and frankly I measure the game not buy the number but buy how much fun I am having.
Then what difference does it make if the enemies are +0 levels or +3 levels?
Seriously though, i've always found the "everyone else does it" argument a bit weak. This is probably because many of my favorite games have been those that deviated from genre norms.
Are wheels round because "everyone else does it" or because that's what works?
Just because MMOs are not physical things does not mean they are infinitely malleable. Games like CoH tend to follow similar patterns because that is what works. If your intent is to hold the player's interest with a PvE game, that game has to get more challenging as levels increase.
In WoW (which is not a difficult game, but people often criticize it for adds being fatal when soloing), my lower level characters can typically solo stuff up to a level or two higher with a bit of difficulty, but my upper level characters can solo multiple equal-level enemies or handle elites or normal enemies that are 4-5 levels higher.
WoW is a PvP game; its PvE game only exists to build characters for PvP.
I bought WoW the day it came out in November '04. I quit in the early days of January '05 with a 60 Hunter and 42 Rogue because the PvE game was too easy, except for EQ-style grinding in instances hoping for the 1% chance something would drop that would improve my character and someone else didn't win the roll for it. After five months of 2-5 Hate raids a week for Earthcaller I've had my fill of that. And I'd rather stab out my eye with a salad fork than get involved with PvP.
That would break the difficulty scaling and do so arbitrarily.
Obviously I would be in favor of reworking the entire system. The current system is nothing but a kluge intended to keep the game from becoming a total snoozefest.
It would also deprive people who try to push the limits of the ability to run invincible eight-person missions (with all eight in the mission defeating stuff), something that should be possible with teamwork and good builds.
They would certainly be free to try. They might even succeed.
It doesn't. Unyielding can easily provide more xp faster, depending on what your build is best at handling.
I said "more XP", not "best XP". Fighting on Invincible, if you can handle it, is more productive than fighting on Heroic. I am well aware that Unyielding is better; that's why almost all my characters fight on it post-SO. (I think it's hilarious that my oh-so-mighty "tank mage" PB doesn't dare raise the difficulty past Tenacious because +2 Voids will murder her.)
I don't think we've seen any indication that the devs don't want anyone to be able to solo invincible.
Res ipsa loquitur. The game is getting harder at the high end, both because of nerfs and because of the introduction of more difficult enemies (particularly in CoV). Whether or not that progression continues remains to be seen.
Just because you SAY it's "too easy" doesn't make it so.
I am far from the only person to point out that the game is too easy. The devs themselves have done so in these forums. I heard Mr. Emmert himself say it in person at one of the East Coast appearances.
There are various options with which you can make the game more difficult, even if the difficulty slider is already on the highest setting, such as not selecting the most effective powers, not slotting them, or slotting them with TO's or DO's instead of SO's, as well as going up against enemies best suited to kick your butt.
This brings us back to: games that only work if the player refrains from putting "X" in the center square are inherently uninteresting. Every player is entitled to play at the best of his ability and find the game challenging when he does so. Games that fail this criterion are conquered, defeated, unworthy of continued play.
I'd like you to quote the post where I said that.
You know perfectly well that discussion on I5 and I6 has long since scrolled off the forums. But this is not the first time we've met and my memory is longer than the software's. (For that matter, the bulk of your choice comments the last time around were purged by the moderators.)
Words mean things.
Words mean many things. A "tank" is also something you put gasoline in; by that metric CoH Tankers are an abysmal failure as they hold no gasoline.
In MMOs, the word "tank" is jargonized. It means a defensive character with (comparatively) low offense whose primary function is to absorb damage -- a meat shield. That's exactly what CoH's Tankers are. You don't want them to be meat shields; you want them to be nigh-indestructible engines of carnage. Well, you can't have that, because history has shown that if you make an MMO class with both high offense and high defense it will ruin your game.
Don't presume to tell me what I know so that you don't have to give anything resembling a substantive reply.
I am merely pointing out the emperor's lack of clothing. You are equivocating, and you know it.
Note that infantry, air support, intell, and so forth can all be effective in their own element without tanks, as well, but when all are used together, the synergy makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts.
But that's not what you want. You don't want "synergy". You don't want to need a Defender backing you up and Scrappers or Blasters providing the real offense.
Or are you claiming that, before I5 and I6, there WERE no other AT's being played?
Of course there were. MMO players are a diverse lot; many will play weaker characters types out of sheer orneriness if nothing else. But people were gravitating towards the FOTM builds, and as long as a game has such builds the players always have and always will flock to them. FWIW, I've noticed as I've been levelling up my alts recently that the current crop of new characters is a lot more diverse than I've seen in the past.
Outgoing damage, which kills your enemy quickly, is the best way to mitigate INCOMING damage. That is, if your enemy is dead, they can't hurt you anymore.
There are a few Blasters who would like to speak with you about this principle.
The tanker's problem is he can't kill ANYTHING quickly nor can he survive for long anymore.
Tankers aren't supposed to kill things quickly; that's what the rest of their group is for. The group is also supposed to help keep him alive. Buffs, debuffs and healing are supposed to matter. That means a Tanker without such support can't expect to walk up to a spawn intended for an entire group and let it all hit him, confident of survival.
Now, if there are Tanker builds that even with such support can't perform their function, that is a legitimate concern. I am perfectly willing to concede that this may be the case with Invulnerability Tankers, and perhaps others (I don't have much experience with Ice Tankers). The solution, though, is to improve those builds so they can function with support, not to the point where they can function without it.
Again, where did I say that? I want them to be able to withstand a +2 - +4 3-man spawn as well as the supposedly "squishie" classes can.
And what are the other two players doing while the Tanker is taking all that fire?
Ummm...there hasn't BEEN any progress since ED, and once again you've made a statement with no supporting arguments.
The entirety of CoV is "progress since ED"; every CoV power and AT was designed with ED in mind. If ED were rescinded, CoV would have to be redesigned in toto, which is (to put it mildly) logistically infeasable.
Likewise, there have been changes on the CoH side that would need to be re-examined if ED were rescinded; consult the patch notes if you need a list. Additionally, all future as-yet-unreleased development would need to be scrapped and restarted. ED is a done deal and it's here to stay. Get over it.
If I take the time to respond to you, give me the same courtesy, or don't bother to respond at all.
I prefer digest-style replies to spamming the topic with multiple posts. I only used multiples above because I missed a few things. I've been too busy playing the game to argue about it. You'll simply have to cope.
Oh, and one other reason for digesting is that I usually make it a point to reply to ideas rather than people -- but in your case I've made an exception.
And for God's sake, learn to use the "quote" button in your posts.
I prefer a different style; deal with it. Those boxes are ugly. Oh, and yes, I've ignored the obvious ad hominems and unsupported rhetoric.
1) Again, you start your response with a conclusion: "this is how MMO's work". Care to support that?
No, I have neither the time nor the inclination to recapitulate the entire history of mud/MMO development for you.
2) Even if it IS how MOST MMO's work, this one was touted specifically as a solo-friendly MMO without the "grind" of the usual MMO.
That does not mean it should be a cake walk.
At the aforementioned public appearance, Mr. Emmert said (paraphrased from memory) "sales of the game have remained strong, but subscriptions aren't going up. What does that mean? It means we're not retaining customers. Why? Because the game is too easy -- it's a joke, it's a snoozefest." Simply put, the empircal data, not just from CoH but from the entire history of the field, suggests that the model of play you advocate doesn't work.
I gave a great deal of support in my statement. You gave none in yours. I win.
You gave a bunch of numbers you pulled out of your nethers. There's just one problem: your conclusion is contrary to the experiences of many players, myself among them. While it is true that the loss of inf from mob defeats and such is significant, it does not empirically present a crippling loss.
No, they didn't. I received XP for clicking a glowie in a mission just today. So you're wrong. Again.
Glowies in my missions that used to award XP did not, as the patch notes said. I expect it's certainly possible that they missed a few, or that missions allocated before the patch might still function under the old rules.
Again, where are you getting this info from? Who told you that the "average" level 50 "ended up" (whatever that means) with "about 20 million extra influence"?
That's what mine ended up with.
A level 50 is at the end-game. It was fun "giving away" influence to people with cool character bios and great costumes, and I don't mean in Atlas Park.
It may be "fun" but it was crocking the economy something wicked, to the point where they had to invent a whole new economy for base construction because there was no way to make the old one make sense.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
*raises hand slowly*
I-I've heard Mud/MUDD used many times and have been gaming for about 20 years in various forms...but...never actually played/participated in/with a mud...what exactly is it and hows it done?
And why do people seem to constantly link it with MMOs?
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*raises hand slowly*
I-I've heard Mud/MUDD used many times and have been gaming for about 20 years in various forms...but...never actually played/participated in/with a mud...what exactly is it and hows it done?
And why do people seem to constantly link it with MMOs?
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Text based online game. Some are advanced enough to have ASCII overland maps.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
Multi User Dungeons. Essentially it was a small text based program someone wrote that was similiar to playing an RPG online with a group of friends. They are associated with MMOs because the current MMOs would probably be best described as direct descendents of these games.
that sounds like saying Tomb Raider is a direct descendent of Zork text based games with puzzles :-p
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that sounds like saying Tomb Raider is a direct descendent of Zork text based games with puzzles :-p
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Neither Tomb Raider, not Zork were MMO's.
:P
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that sounds like saying Tomb Raider is a direct descendent of Zork text based games with puzzles :-p
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And that assertion would be accurate. Software is evolving a much more rapid rate than we do. Hardware even faster still.
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congratulations you just won an award for the most posts in a row by the same person! 
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Five? FIVE? Five in a row? That's...most?
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I remember getting at least as high as 7 or 8 in another thread after responding to several posts at 5 in the morning when hardly anyone else was on.
I for one welcome our new multi-posting overlords.
As I told you before, I'm not going to pull my quotes out of a post you are making because you are too lazy to respond to my post, nor am I going to put in line markers to show where your quotes end and mine begin, or vice versa.
So...
Your response is, when stripped of its veneer, simply a matter of "This is what you are saying, because I SAY this is what you are saying. It doesn't matter that I have no support for this, or that you deny it, or that your posts show otherwise. I am right because I am me, and to doubt me is sheer folly."
Well, then I am a fool. I doubt you, I deny you, and I rebuke you. I never said, nor implied, that tanks should be able to provide as much damage as scrappers or blasters, nor do I believe that they should be able to handle entire (or half) maps. Your insistence that you know my opinion better than I do, or that I'm somehow backpeddalling from something I never said, simply makes you look like a megalomaniacal, self-important blowhard.
And when comments like those above get "purged" from the thread, it doesn't really prove that you were right, that I was wrong, or that my characterization of you was in error, only that the moderators prefer to keep this forum more civil than is generally possible when people like you insist on ignoring argument, and instead focus on spitting baseless insults at people like me.
That is to say, if you piss down my back, you're going to piss me off, and I'm going to tell you what I think of you as a result. And I don't care if that gets my post deleted, nor do I believe it impacts the meaningfulness of my general arguments.
Oh, and there IS no economy in CoH, your experience at level 50 isn't the "average", you still didn't define what "ended up with" means, I will talk to the fictitious blasters about my statement when they show up, I don't care if the boxes are ugly, they work to demarcate posts from replies, a three-man spawn is what you get when soloing, so there ARE no "2 other people, ...
Oh forget it. It's just not worth the effort. I'm putting you on ignore, because I just don't feel like dealing with your B.S.
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congratulations you just won an award for the most posts in a row by the same person!
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Five? FIVE? Five in a row? That's...most?
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I remember getting at least as high as 7 or 8 in another thread after responding to several posts at 5 in the morning when hardly anyone else was on.
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Well, I've had Miss Kitty accuse me on multiple occasions of trying to get a whole page (10 posts) to myself, so technically, I think I'm still in the lead. Well, except for the "filling a whole page with quotes" thing.
And in self-defense, I post in the middle of the night CST here in America, so I can't help it if I have to post a bunch of replies to posters who had to wait all day for a response from me.
Which they did. Anxiously. With 'bated breath, even.
I'm just sure of it.
Plus, I'm bored. 
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that sounds like saying Tomb Raider is a direct descendent of Zork text based games with puzzles :-p
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And that assertion would be accurate. Software is evolving a much more rapid rate than we do. Hardware even faster still.
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Some don't believe in evolution. Some believe in intelligent design.
Of course, those people probably were never in on a design-requirements meeting.
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I for one welcome our new multi-posting overlords.
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KNEEL BEFORE ZOD...ER..SCIONOFSATAN!!!
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KNEEL BEFORE ZOD...ER..SCIONOFSATAN!!!
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No, I'm not Schizophrenic.
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KNEEL BEFORE ZOD...ER..SCIONOFSATAN!!!
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No, I'm not Schizophrenic.
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Whatever, here's a bran muffin.
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As I told you before, I'm not going to pull my quotes out of a post you are making because you are too lazy to respond to my post, nor am I going to put in line markers to show where your quotes end and mine begin, or vice versa.
So...
Your response is, when stripped of its veneer, simply a matter of "This is what you are saying, because I SAY this is what you are saying. It doesn't matter that I have no support for this, or that you deny it, or that your posts show otherwise. I am right because I am me, and to doubt me is sheer folly."
Well, then I am a fool. I doubt you, I deny you, and I rebuke you. I never said, nor implied, that tanks should be able to provide as much damage as scrappers or blasters, nor do I believe that they should be able to handle entire (or half) maps. Your insistence that you know my opinion better than I do, or that I'm somehow backpeddalling from something I never said, simply makes you look like a megalomaniacal, self-important blowhard.
And when comments like those above get "purged" from the thread, it doesn't really prove that you were right, that I was wrong, or that my characterization of you was in error, only that the moderators prefer to keep this forum more civil than is generally possible when people like you insist on ignoring argument, and instead focus on spitting baseless insults at people like me.
That is to say, if you piss down my back, you're going to piss me off, and I'm going to tell you what I think of you as a result. And I don't care if that gets my post deleted, nor do I believe it impacts the meaningfulness of my general arguments.
Oh, and there IS no economy in CoH, your experience at level 50 isn't the "average", you still didn't define what "ended up with" means, I will talk to the fictitious blasters about my statement when they show up, I don't care if the boxes are ugly, they work to demarcate posts from replies, a three-man spawn is what you get when soloing, so there ARE no "2 other people, ...
Oh forget it. It's just not worth the effort. I'm putting you on ignore, because I just don't feel like dealing with your B.S.
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Does it really surpise anyone he just says whatever he wants to say you said? The lutker can confirm that Sicon never talked about dammage just making a take More you know Tanky, tough, cause you know they were......SUPER-NERFED, by the new SUPER-NERF-BAT (with cape)
ME on the other hand ive always proposed tanks shoud not only be tough but hit hardbut have a horible, horible rechnage on every attack.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
incidnetly i still content that the DEVs AI needs work their so predictable
"well repeal the hated steath nerf but not ED or I5 oh and were planing implementation of steath syppression"
hell i could predict the devs responce like i can predice the attack patern of a freak show spawn
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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So, how much to you think you earn over three levels? Five? I don't buy new enhancements every level. I don't think anyone getting SOs does. You are just using one level's worth of earnings, when I don't think anyone plays that way.
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You're wrong. I did on my first four or five toons, trying to keep all enhancements green at all times. And even if you're suggesting that you should buy them at +3 levels at the earliest opportunity, then leave them alone until they are -2 levels and repeat the process, you have to recognize that that meanst you're getting an even SMALLER percentage of the buying price from selling, as your drops are that much lower in level than the next level you're looking to buy.
As to how much can be earned, my lvl 35 MM currently has all SO's, all white or green, and 1.5 million in the bank. He has only purchased for open slots (and one or two of those were filled by drops) since level 32, not to combine, and has not been in SG mode at all since lvl 27, nor has he purchased anything at Icon. To give you an idea of how frugal I'm being with him, he's been hoarding a lvl 39 damage SO since LAST level, to use NEXT level.
I think that, if I weren't getting inf rewards per kill I would be broke and poorly enhanced. I think I've shown this. I don't think, by level 37, that I will have 5 million in inf, but if I do, it will be because of the kill and mission rewards, not from selling enhancements alone, or even mostly.
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im lvl 40 on a scrapper, i have yet to get 5 million from drops alone, and im 2 bubs from 41, wonda what i have to fight to get this mythica "5mill from enhacment drops"
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Yeah, because that sounds like SO much fun...
I'd at least try it, and I'm sure lots of others would too. Build a mountain, and people will try to climb it because it's there.
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and most people would not, imface im sure the majority would not. Raise your hand if you climbed a mountat recently because 'it was their' AND paied somone for the privilage
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Uh, no, because they are PAYING to play a game where they can play a SUPERHERO, not part of a Cirque Du Soleil acrobatics troupe fighting crime on their night off.
That's got nothing to do with the issue. Just because it's a superhero game doesn't mean it should be mind-numbingly easy even at the highest difficulty setting.
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and i still content i have enough trouble on HEROIC, and other that have little to no trouble at invincible?
what happend if you up the curve? yo make th game UNPLABLE for the first instance and give a little challange to the other group.
God its like the american edicatio nsystem except your not pandering to the lowest domininatior but the highest. Set a fair average, some wil ALWAYS beat it. And what if thei make invinc tougher and some brezaases thoug htat? MAke it even harder intil only th e 10 most skill kings of europe can plan the game on heroic and only the devs can beat invinc?
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Where in HELL do people get off dictating to others how they can play the game when those others are playing it ALONE?
No one plays this game alone, even if they solo all the time.
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thats a falacy, yes their are other people on line but answer me this, in the real world when you are say commuting to work in your car you consider that a team activity when your the only one in the car?
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Jesus CHRIST, what is this, Nazi Germany?!?!
I WIN!
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victory has been repealed on groud of you beeing egotistical mine furrer :P
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As for "perfect builds", in terms of the games that require and encourage them, and the attitude which seeks to create them, both are the producst of lazy minds which cannot be bothered to seek creative solutions to problems.
There is no need for a creative solution to a problem when a perfect solution exists. Games that only function so long as the player refrains from putting "X" in the center square are inherently uninteresting.
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a prfct solution that require you to make no mistakes, comand your full attention at all times and will broken no comprimizes isn't perfect by definition, its a second job that you pay for the priviage to do. And guess what CoH is a game.
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This is the Engineer's mindset which sees every aspect of every problem as quanitifable in mere numbers.
All problems are quantifiable in mere numbers. It's just that in RL, we usually don't know the numbers. Or the equations, and they'd probably be too complex to deal with at that level anyway. Games, though, are mathematical structures and nothing else and can (and should) be dealt with as such.
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You never programed a game have you, ok smarly if things are so simple i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO
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You "should" read entire paragraphs, to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I did.
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wait i think you mad a typo :P
/I Didn't/
much better
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Specifically, then, I am referring to the balance within the game AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS, not as you would have it be at some mythical, far off time and place.
I am quite aware of that. I am merely pointing out that, your caterwauling notwithstanding, the game is still too easy.
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funny how i have a lvl 50 defender who cant solo at all, and a lvl 40 scrapper struggling at TENACIOUS....yup so easy...Obviosu your so good so maybe your TOO good for this game?
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THis is the continuation of that thought. Quite clearly, I didn't say that a change was unnecessary, only that the change made was OVERKILL.
But now you are being disingenuous, as you argued quite vociferously against both the I5 and I6 changes, and you've made it perfectly clear that you want the game to let you throw mobs around with no chance of defeat.
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Nope actuall hes says "I5 was over kill, i6 was kicking a wounded man" hes said, we all have that Invuln was opeer power in I4, hell we even located the problem (a bug in invincbilit ythat tripled its buff numbers)
however what did the devs do?
I5: gut defenses
I6: half defenses via ED
patch: Fix invincbility
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The tank is, as the name would suggest, supposed to be the heavy armor with impressive guns of the group.
That is not what "tank" means in MMOs, including this one, and you know it.
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actuall that is the definition of a tank in a MMO, the on e who takes the hit and has a few good ones of his own, often at a cost such as a movement penetry fro mthe heavy [censored] armor. Granit armo is the /clasic/ defintion of MMO tanking.
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Not the artillery with no defense (blaster), or the support team (defender), or intel (controller), or infantry (scrapper), but the TANK!
And who would play any of the other ATs, if Tankers were what you want them to be? The simple fact is that if you want Blaster or Scrapper offense, you'll have to live with the corresponding level of defense.
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tanks were never popular, ever, why because folk liked bieing a fast kill or glass cannon better then something that takes roughly 38 levels to be good at combat.
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Yes, each AT should be able to contribute to the group, but the tank shouldn't be one of the least dangerous, easiest to knock down classes.
Which they are not. Even poor beleagured Invulnerabilty Tankers are more impressive, defensively, than Scrappers, never mind the squishies. (Invulnerability Scrappers on the other hand are now lagging that particular pack.)
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Actually their not, its been prooven, PROVEN that a invuln tanker can function on just passive and dull pain, when 6 sloted my invuln could not stad up without dull pain for more then 3 secods agains a common spawn of 6 cabal at lvl 32, and when i soloed a madness mage at +3 (who at mele range use just s/l) it took me /11/ minutes to down him and that was using DP and inspiration to last that long and iwas stil lbeing hammered.
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Maybe there's a happy medium in there somewhere where the tanks can't herd an entire map and survive, but can solo at least as well as a controller or a scraper or a blaster.
Of course. But your idea of that "happy medium" is to restrict the Tanker to herding only half the entire map instead of all of it.
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or to you know put a cap on agro of a reson amont of 17 might be enough...oh wait they did that. Invulnd by nature NEED to herd one of theor poers REQUIRES them to have mobs on their back at alltimes.
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First you misquote me,or at least quote me out of context, then you agree with me, then you say I was wrong. For God's sake, man, pull it together. You just admitted I was right, then argued with yourself.
No, I merely conceded that Invulnerability was reduced too much, specifically in its resists to elemental and energy damage types. That is a far cry from agreeing that Tankers should be "the colossus of the game"...the game should not and must not have a "colossus".
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Tel lthat to the X-men, im sure they wil lbe glad to knwo Pioter can leave :P
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What??!! How do you figure that? Because to change one's mind is to show weakness? The hyenas will pounce if they sense the pack leader wavering?
No, because once you've made a fundamental change to a complex system and proceeded from that point, reversing the change doesn't fix the problems it created: it compounds them. Rolling back ED would break all the changes made to the game since its introduction -- including all of CoV. It would be a disaster. Like it or not, ED was a committed move that can't be taken back.
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Um actually since ED doesnt ADD anything it cant BREAK anything by remving it except leting folks 6 slot powers again.
ED did not ADD one thing to the game, not one.
nada
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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congratulations you just won an award for the most posts in a row by the same person!
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Five? FIVE? Five in a row? That's...most?
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I remember getting at least as high as 7 or 8 in another thread after responding to several posts at 5 in the morning when hardly anyone else was on.
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Whate else is there to do during server downtime?
I walk the dogs, I throw the frisbee, I drink coffee, I read the posts, I pound on the crackhouse door for my CoH fix... 
BTW, Personamorpher, I know we don't often agree, but I want to tell you I think your "vision" in your sig line is a magnificent idea.
Now THAT is a constructive suggestion!!!
Dasher
HELP SAVE THIS GAME!
If we can save this game, I promise I will never complain about Travel Power Suppression again! You have my word on it!
"The customer is always right."
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congratulations you just won an award for the most posts in a row by the same person!
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Five? FIVE? Five in a row? That's...most?
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I remember getting at least as high as 7 or 8 in another thread after responding to several posts at 5 in the morning when hardly anyone else was on.
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Whate else is there to do during server downtime?
I walk the dogs, I throw the frisbee, I drink coffee, I read the posts, I pound on the crackhouse door for my CoH fix...
BTW, Personamorpher, I know we don't often agree, but I want to tell you I think your "vision" in your sig line is a magnificent idea.
Now THAT is a constructive suggestion!!!
Dasher
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the only problem wit hthat is getting threads lie kthis
"OMG my Brute just beat a +4 Brute"
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
Again, where are you getting this info from? Who told you that the "average" level 50 "ended up" (whatever that means) with "about 20 million extra influence"? You are just making things up, and then asking me to justify these arbitrary numbers.
Leveling up 3 characters to 50. As well as various friends who have leveled up to 50. 20M was actually the low end of the spectrum.
But even assuming you were right, which I don't, so what? What about at level 45? 40? 35?
I used various alts level 30+ to twink a character who had recently hit level 22 as well as several friends and still managed to finish with plentiful influence when I needed it. My level 38 sonic defender who I stopped playing around the time of CoV beta first wave is sitting on approximately 5M influence.
But I couldn't do it as soon as I hit 50. I had to play for a while, getting all my SO's to ++, then gaining enough extra to be able to be a philanthropic "hero of the city".
Ok wow you sucked if you actually had to save up influence to ++ your SOs when you hit 50. You can still do the latter it will now just take more time for you to gather that influence if you so choose and to garner prestige as well.
So you admit, then, that you DIDN'T get 5 million infamy from drops alone.
You stated that you got no influence from drops. I stated I gathered a frickin buttload from drops. You are splitting hairs. I dropped out of SGmode for End of Arc bonuses because I thought they should have been scaled differently than simply being reduced to a mission complete prestige wise.
So you admit, then, that you DIDN'T have money to waste in upgrading your enhancements.
I've never bothered to upgrading my enhancements every level because it a waste of resources. It always has been. 40k influence for a 3% bonus is a joke.and that's only if you want to keep them from going yellow. If you are increasing to green you are gaining even less. I also stated I had 2M extra infamy when I achieved level 40. So I in fact did have extra infamy to waste on upgrading but simply chose to avoid doing so.
I saw lvl 50's die all the time. You just have to push your limits. That's what makes the game "fun". And it was fully possible to do that pre-I5. To claim it wasn't is to be flatly dishonest.
I saw level 50 dies frequently. They are called blasters. Meanwhile I'd watch a tank herd upwards of 150 foes at +4 to his level and watch his health bar not move and scrappers do the same. A character shouldn't have to go to rediculous extremes to face a threateing situation in a video game based around combat.
thats a falacy, yes their are other people on line but answer me this, in the real world when you are say commuting to work in your car you consider that a team activity when your the only one in the car?
No man is an island. Even if you are alone in your car there are other people on the road who could slow you down or in a worst case scenario an accident might occur which would cause a traffic slowdown for everyone. Like it or not your actions do not occur in a vaccuum.
i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO
I'll make you a deal. I'll try this if you can manage to make a typo free post? 
Um actually since ED doesnt ADD anything it cant BREAK anything by remving it except leting folks 6 slot powers again.
Removing it breaks inter-AT balance between CoH and CoV. Removing it would also break defenders once more because players would be hitting their caps. Altering the caps in anyway would unbalance us versus the environment.
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thats a falacy, yes their are other people on line but answer me this, in the real world when you are say commuting to work in your car you consider that a team activity when your the only one in the car?
No man is an island. Even if you are alone in your car there are other people on the road who could slow you down or in a worst case scenario an accident might occur which would cause a traffic slowdown for everyone. Like it or not your actions do not occur in a vaccuum.
i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO
I'll make you a deal. I'll try this if you can manage to make a typo free post?
Um actually since ED doesnt ADD anything it cant BREAK anything by remving it except leting folks 6 slot powers again.
Removing it breaks inter-AT balance between CoH and CoV. Removing it would also break defenders once more because players would be hitting their caps. Altering the caps in anyway would unbalance us versus the environment.
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Oh the precious Defenders will not be wanted again oh what will we do???? I was never not wanted i always got a team and 80% of my friends list were + level tankers. I love my defenders and ED cut my damage output in addition to changing the specialty of my builds. Besides only the best builds come close to self capping and as far as i can see not that many have that good of a build. You do see them but my exp has been most people are not Min Max experts.
I think ED had more to do with PVP, COV character inherent damage bonuses getting out of hand and clamping down on Protective powers, Hasten and Stamina than anything else.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
Joy!!!
Sorry just need my post fix hehe