Not once, not twice, but three times...
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2006-01-10 16:26 in Developers' Corner
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I saw lvl 50's die all the time. You just have to push your limits. That's what makes the game "fun". And it was fully possible to do that pre-I5. To claim it wasn't is to be flatly dishonest.
I saw level 50 dies frequently. They are called blasters. Meanwhile I'd watch a tank herd upwards of 150 foes at +4 to his level and watch his health bar not move and scrappers do the same. A character shouldn't have to go to rediculous extremes to face a threateing situation in a video game based around combat.
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and yet said problem coudl be fixed by...
limited taunt (oh waith they did that)
limiting aoes (oh wiat they did that)
puting a agro cap im place (they did that)
inproving the AI (they claim their doing that)
or
nerfing defenses...
they did all 5 when any one would have gotten the desired result
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO
I'll make you a deal. I'll try this if you can manage to make a typo free post? 
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This is a Typo Free Post. Oh BTW, I've coded BOTH in Dark Basic as well as bones animation and a basic random action AI.
And a 3d environment to run around in....
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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thats a falacy, yes their are other people on line but answer me this, in the real world when you are say commuting to work in your car you consider that a team activity when your the only one in the car?
No man is an island. Even if you are alone in your car there are other people on the road who could slow you down or in a worst case scenario an accident might occur which would cause a traffic slowdown for everyone. Like it or not your actions do not occur in a vaccuum.
i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO
I'll make you a deal. I'll try this if you can manage to make a typo free post?
Um actually since ED doesnt ADD anything it cant BREAK anything by remving it except leting folks 6 slot powers again.
Removing it breaks inter-AT balance between CoH and CoV. Removing it would also break defenders once more because players would be hitting their caps. Altering the caps in anyway would unbalance us versus the environment.
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Oh the precious Defenders will not be wanted again oh what will we do???? I was never not wanted i always got a team and 80% of my friends list were + level tankers. I love my defenders and ED cut my damage output in addition to changing the specialty of my builds. Besides only the best builds come close to self capping and as far as i can see not that many have that good of a build. You do see them but my exp has been most people are not Min Max experts.
I think ED had more to do with PVP, COV character inherent damage bonuses getting out of hand and clamping down on Protective powers, Hasten and Stamina than anything else.
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my FF defender mad a living being complety unable to solo, i had so many buff that i made teams into gods (their own words) at the EXPENSE of beable able to protect myself, my dmg output was so poor that out level missions vs -23 foes took a hour to complete!
Then along came I5 and ED and...my dmag output is stil lshit and my defenses are...he same as a balanced defender. but my dammage hasnt inproved any.
My take was in the exact same situation, when i respeced my tank for ED knwo what i found? she played EXACTLY liek my brute - fury.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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ME on the other hand ive always proposed tanks shoud not only be tough but hit hardbut have a horible, horible rechnage on every attack.
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I agree with this whole-heartedly. When they hit you, it should hurt worse than any other attacker (with the possible exception of blasters), but they should have a much slower attack rate, either because they are so big, so dense, so dumb, generally slow, or because they are very, very careful about WHO they are hitting, and how hard, so as to avoid killing an innocent bystander, a teammate, or even a villain (since tanks are heroes, after all).
And thanks for the backup, Neko.
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Us insane twinks have to stick together, me id give tankes back I5 s/l defense for everthing (self capable at 60-70% seems fair and leaves room for defenders)
up their dammage to KO blow-nuke level and rechanges likes those seen in controlers now.
their have a pain gun but liek a Real tank be slow to fire. And lie ka real tank id also give them a lower base accuracy.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
Phew...ok i think i found all the points i want to reply too....
:returns to writing novel:
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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BTW, Personamorpher, I know we don't often agree, but I want to tell you I think your "vision" in your sig line is a magnificent idea.
Now THAT is a constructive suggestion!!!
Dasher
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Actually, I have to give credit to Satanic_Hamster for that one. It's his idea. I just found it so ammusing I had to add it to my signature. If you've been around Hamster long enough you'd know how very Hammy and idea it is (as in Hamster-ish, not cortn). For those who miss out on the idea if I change my signature I'll quote it here:
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I...
I have a vision.
The Shard, open to both Heroes and Villains. But we're all on the same side.
Satanic_Hamster
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P.S. I was just re-reading this after posting it, and I noticed something: You must suck at this game. That's the only way you could die enough to stay in a level long enough to get enough drops to have enough money to do what you said you did.
Yup, it all makes sense now. You suck. Heh. Sorry it took me so long to realize it. Guess you're not a liar after all.
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Umm ... so deaths mean someone sucks? Death *IS* suppose to be a learning tool. Anyway, I die ... and frankly i've gotten the first death badge -- and cause I *suck* cause i push a character to the breaking point. I find every weakness and strength.
Hell, i've fought and just about died an somehow got some good hits and survived. Then, again, i forgot i'm suppose to suck cause i die.
come on. find something else to be lame about.
You probably got PL'd or something, dropped on your head, and skipped the deaths. Who knows. but there is nothing wrong with dieing. so give out over it.
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The post to Xeroshadow is in the context of a long-standing feud between the two of us on these boards. Specifically, it refers to his claims to not need the influence/infamy gained in defeating foes/missions in order to fully and effectively enhance one's character. And the "you suck" comment is in DIRECT response to him saying something similar to me.
I can understand you feeling defensive about it, but honestly, it's not a general condemnation of dying in-game. In fact, one of my ongoing themes in this thread is that, even BEFORE the I5/I6 nerfs, death was not avoidable even for the so-called "uber" class and powerset, the inv/ tank.
So calm down, Beavis.
Finally, before you start throwing around accusations about me being PL'ed, you might want to check my post history, specifically in the consolidated PL thread. I am, or was, one of the most vociferous (and some would say venomous) opponents of PL'ing, even to the point of calling it a way of "cheating", and suggesting that broadcasting for PL's should be a bannable offense.
I'm gonna let you off with a warning on this one. But for future reference, you take potshots at me at your own risk. I have little to do at work overnight, and researching your post history would, I'm sure, give me plenty of ammo with which to fling insults back at you, baseless or not. I don't LIKE flame wars, but I don't pretend to be above them.
Alrighty then, have a good day, and drive safely, sir. These roads can be treacherous.
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P.S. I was just re-reading this after posting it, and I noticed something: You must suck at this game. That's the only way you could die enough to stay in a level long enough to get enough drops to have enough money to do what you said you did.
Yup, it all makes sense now. You suck. Heh. Sorry it took me so long to realize it. Guess you're not a liar after all.
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Umm ... so deaths mean someone sucks? Death *IS* suppose to be a learning tool. Anyway, I die ... and frankly i've gotten the first death badge -- and cause I *suck* cause i push a character to the breaking point. I find every weakness and strength.
Hell, i've fought and just about died an somehow got some good hits and survived. Then, again, i forgot i'm suppose to suck cause i die.
come on. find something else to be lame about.
You probably got PL'd or something, dropped on your head, and skipped the deaths. Who knows. but there is nothing wrong with dieing. so give out over it.
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The post to Xeroshadow is in the context of a long-standing feud between the two of us on these boards. Specifically, it refers to his claims to not need the influence/infamy gained in defeating foes/missions in order to fully and effectively enhance one's character. And the "you suck" comment is in DIRECT response to him saying something similar to me.
I can understand you feeling defensive about it, but honestly, it's not a general condemnation of dying in-game. In fact, one of my ongoing themes in this thread is that, even BEFORE the I5/I6 nerfs, death was not avoidable even for the so-called "uber" class and powerset, the inv/ tank.
So calm down, Beavis.
Finally, before you start throwing around accusations about me being PL'ed, you might want to check my post history, specifically in the consolidated PL thread. I am, or was, one of the most vociferous (and some would say venomous) opponents of PL'ing, even to the point of calling it a way of "cheating", and suggesting that broadcasting for PL's should be a bannable offense.
I'm gonna let you off with a warning on this one. But for future reference, you take potshots at me at your own risk. I have little to do at work overnight, and researching your post history would, I'm sure, give me plenty of ammo with which to fling insults back at you, baseless or not. I don't LIKE flame wars, but I don't pretend to be above them.
Alrighty then, have a good day, and drive safely, sir. These roads can be treacherous.
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Remberfolks
SiconOfSatan Lord of the Flame Wars
Neko_Lurker Lord of the Typos
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Ok, first, I never said you got NOTHING from drops.
Your memory much like your comprehension skills need improvement:
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And in order to be fully decked out with SO's at even-con level the moment he hits lvl 50, he CAN'T be gaining prestige, or he won't have any inf. to spend on SO's.
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Ok, I can accept that, but I misspoke. Only by taking me absolutely literally here could you think I meant "none". Since that seems to suggest that YOUR comprehension skills are what are lacking here, I will replace the word "any" with the phrase "anywhere near enough", so as to help alleviate your apparent confusion as to my meaning.
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And none of this answers the math I did so painstakingly in that post for you.
It must have been painful to pull numbers from where you did.
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This, also, is not a substantive response. If you contend that my numbers are not accurate, please feel free to elaborate on why, and what would be more accurate. If you can't, then just admit that you're wrong, and I'm right, and be done with it.
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Your example you were running invincible missions. This is not required to play the game. As you pointed out it is actually making the game more difficult, as it should. Also your proposed XP numbers that do not seem to fall in line with the actual XP requirements to gain a level in the 30+ game.
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I make more inf per kill, and make my kills pretty quickly. I also get more xp per kill. Which means, if my numbers are off compared to your "less difficult" missions, it SHOULD mean that it takes you longer to level, and hence would get more enhancement drops, albeit of a lower level, and hence worth less per sale. In the end, I would think these would balance out, but that's pure assumption on my part. Perhaps in the test we do, you should run on tenacious, or Heroic even, and I'll run on invinc, and we'll see who gets what. The thing is, if we do that, we are adding MORE variables to the problem, hence making the results MORE difficult to interpret. Since the only issue under dispute here is whether or not enhancement drops alone are enough to keep you well outfitted, I would think that would be unneccessary (to run at different difficulties).
But, if invincible is too HARD for you...
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which you still haven't defined...do you mean "ended up with" when you stopped playing them regularly, or ended up with after buying all enhancements as soon as you hit level 50?
The latter. People who are still playing have excess of 50M a few I know even got into the 200M range.
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Well, obviously, if you keep playing, and never need to buy anything else, the upper end of inf you can gain is infinite. That's why I was asking. Since your answer is "the latter", I still have to say I don't accept your thesis. But then again, I've never played on anything less than Invincible after level 30, as I prefer a more challenging game than you do, apparently.
By the way, if you are not playing on the most challenging level, and are complaining that the influence gained from drops AND kills is too much, perhaps it isn't out-of-line to suggest that you are desiring more challenge. In which case, i would think the answer would be obvious...
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P.S. I was just re-reading this after posting it, and I noticed something: You must suck at this game. That's the only way you could die enough to stay in a level long enough to get enough drops to have enough money to do what you said you did.
Nope sorry. I generally get complimented as one of the best players people have seen and was one of the highest level villains on Virtue for the first week of CoV. I did die but it was by no means frequently.
Yup, it all makes sense now. You suck
And not but a few posts back you were proclaiming I was too good for the game. Perhaps I'm just a whole lot better and particularly smarter than you? In this statement you've essentially said that i utilized what was supposed to be a punishment to maximize my rewards. I'd say that's downright ingenious.
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Obviously, I was being sarcastic before. Again, it would seem YOUR comprehension is what is lacking here, not mine. Also, to be perfectly clear, I'm also being facetious (and a little vengeful) in saying "you suck". I've never played with you (and don't really want to, to be honest), and hence have no way to know what your skill level is, in-game. I know it's not too good on the forums, but the two aren't necessarily intertwined. However, you SAYING you're one of the "best players in the game" really doesn't mean much. Braggadocio is seldom an accurate portrayal of reality. Often, it's simply compensation for "short"-comings. If you know what I mean. Which, from the looks of your general comprehension of anything not explicitly and literally stated, isn't likely.
Oh, and for god's sake, use the quote button. As you can see above, your "bolding" doesn't persist from reply-to-reply, doesn't separate my quotes from yours, and you don't bother with demarcation. I know what I said, and you know what you said, but no one else is going to know that two different people said these things. Seriously, it's easier to do than bolding, and it's easier to read. To refuse to use the mechanisms given for clear responses is just as ineffective as eschewing inf from kills in-game.
Hey, by the way, are you posting under another name?
Buh-bye.
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they rollback the ED patch, they would have to code the enhancement display stuff back in.
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Leave it out. I'd rather have things be guesswork, but not nerfed, than nerfed, and obviously so.
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Just saying there was something added with ED. You were the one saying ED added nothing.
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Actually, no, that wasn't me. That was a different poster. I was responding to your response.
But let me say it now...ED added NOTHING. The "indicator" numbers are completely separate code implemented in TANDEM with the implementation of ED, as well as in tandem with everything ELSE that was implemented in I6 with the release of CoV.
So, no, ED doesn't have anything to do with that. But my point is, even if it WAS an "if this - then that" gain/loss, I'd be fine with it. As would, I think, everyone else who hates ED.
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they rollback the ED patch, they would have to code the enhancement display stuff back in.
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Leave it out. I'd rather have things be guesswork, but not nerfed, than nerfed, and obviously so.
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Just saying there was something added with ED. You were the one saying ED added nothing.
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Actually, no, that wasn't me. That was a different poster. I was responding to your response.
But let me say it now...ED added NOTHING. The "indicator" numbers are completely separate code implemented in TANDEM with the implementation of ED, as well as in tandem with everything ELSE that was implemented in I6 with the release of CoV.
So, no, ED doesn't have anything to do with that. But my point is, even if it WAS an "if this - then that" gain/loss, I'd be fine with it. As would, I think, everyone else who hates ED.
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give it ups Satan its clear to EVERYONE that your just a poor clone of me...that why things you say or i Say are interchamble to the other.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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they rollback the ED patch, they would have to code the enhancement display stuff back in.
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Leave it out. I'd rather have things be guesswork, but not nerfed, than nerfed, and obviously so.
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its still guess work sicon, oh sur e its stright forward on dammage but thing lie kdefense are still guess work
that 57.7% on those defenses are real 57.7% of the base among (30% for say TI so your looking at +57.7% of 30%) whihc actually HURTS new players who see their dmg is doing 50% more and their defense is 50% beter so they expect to take 50% less damamge not roughy 15% less
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Granted. I just liked the pithiness of my response, since brevity is, I've been told, the soul of wit. Given the average length of my posts, not to mention the complaints about the sheer number of them in a row, I thought I might be wise to use a little more brevity. If that's not a paradox.
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they rollback the ED patch, they would have to code the enhancement display stuff back in.
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Leave it out. I'd rather have things be guesswork, but not nerfed, than nerfed, and obviously so.
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its still guess work sicon, oh sur e its stright forward on dammage but thing lie kdefense are still guess work
that 57.7% on those defenses are real 57.7% of the base among (30% for say TI so your looking at +57.7% of 30%) whihc actually HURTS new players who see their dmg is doing 50% more and their defense is 50% beter so they expect to take 50% less damamge not roughy 15% less
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Granted. I just liked the pithiness of my response, since brevity is, I've been told, the soul of wit. Given the average length of my posts, not to mention the complaints about the sheer number of them in a row, I thought I might be wise to use a little more brevity. If that's not a paradox.
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but im not limited, how many replies do i have here...12 in a row i think
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Remberfolks
SiconOfSatan Lord of the Flame Wars
Neko_Lurker Lord of the Typos
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LOL!! I'm gonna put that in my signature! The typo in my name is a beautiful touch, by the way. 
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Remberfolks
SiconOfSatan Lord of the Flame Wars
Neko_Lurker Lord of the Typos
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LOL!! I'm gonna put that in my signature! The typo in my name is a beautiful touch, by the way.
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Nothing else would be tolerated by the citizen of Typo-pia
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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give it ups Satan its clear to EVERYONE that your just a poor clone of me...that why things you say or i Say are interchamble to the other.
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Shhh...if Marvel hears you, they'll sue for "clone wars" infringement...even though they try to pretend they never did that sad excuse for a storyline...
We own this thread now. Interlopers BEWARE!!
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give it ups Satan its clear to EVERYONE that your just a poor clone of me...that why things you say or i Say are interchamble to the other.
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Shhh...if Marvel hears you, they'll sue for "clone wars" infringement...even though they try to pretend they never did that sad excuse for a storyline...
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Actuall they retconed thet retcon of the clone wars.
spidy: Oh No. I am NOT joining the Champions.
Cap america: It means, my friend, that i have the athority to assemble any TEAM i see fit to go on any MISSION i see fit.
spidy: Yeah? I have clones.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
Interloping.
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Interloping.
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KILL THE INTERLOPER!!! 
The AV/Elite Boss idea is BRILLIANT and SOLVES the problem of Soloability in the high levels of the game!
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Did you reply to that twice?
Oh, and still interloping. 
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Remberfolks
SiconOfSatan Lord of the Flame Wars
Neko_Lurker Lord of the Typos
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Can I have a title, too?
Maybe "Dasher, Lord of the Rant" (I think I'm probably a shoo-in for this one), or "Patron Saint of the Lost Cause"?
Dasher (Something or Other of the Something)
HELP SAVE THIS GAME!
If we can save this game, I promise I will never complain about Travel Power Suppression again! You have my word on it!
"The customer is always right."
Your response is, when stripped of its veneer, simply a matter of "This is what you are saying, because I SAY this is what you are saying. It doesn't matter that I have no support for this, or that you deny it, or that your posts show otherwise. I am right because I am me, and to doubt me is sheer folly."
Simply put, your posts don't show otherwise. Even your .sig belies your intentions.
I never said, nor implied, that tanks should be able to provide as much damage as scrappers or blasters,
...except for later in the thread, of course, where you want them to be able to alpha-strike anything out of existence.
nor do I believe that they should be able to handle entire (or half) maps.
...except for earlier in the thread, where you complain that you can't tank without healing. If you could tank group-sized spawns without healing, we'd be right back to the Bad Old Days.
(...)and instead focus on spitting baseless insults at people like me.
I haven't insulted you at all. I've pointed out the shortcomings in your arguments. As long as you insist on posting gems like this (I'll use the quote box for this one :-) ):
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I'm gonna let you off with a warning on this one. But for future reference, you take potshots at me at your own risk.
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...I don't think I need to insult you.
Oh, and there IS no economy in CoH,
...because everyone has more money than they know what to do with, which is why the devs cut the supply.
your experience at level 50 isn't the "average"
You're right; I've heard of lots of 50s who ended up with more inf than I did.
you still didn't define what "ended up with" means
Xeno already covered this: what you have after you've upgraded your enhancers for the last time. At that point there is nothing left to buy, and any inf you have is essentially left over.
a three-man spawn is what you get when soloing, so there ARE no "2 other people
A three-man spawn is what you get when there are three people in your group. A three Minion spawn is what you get when you are soloing, at least on three out of five difficulty settings -- but if you're soloing, you won't get any +4's. Invincible only spawns +3s. Your original complaint called for "a +2-+4 three-man spawn", thus implying the former interpretation. I'd also have to say you don't have much chance of convincing anyone that even the weakest Tankers can't tank three Minions, post-SO, even at +3.
and most people would not, imface im sure the majority would not.
Of course not. If it was easy, everyone would do it.
and i still content i have enough trouble on HEROIC,
What are you doing, six-slotting Rest and Brawl?
In any case, who said anything about changing Heroic?
God its like the american edicatio nsystem except your not pandering to the lowest domininatior but the highest.
Speaking of the education system....
thats a falacy, yes their are other people on line but answer me this, in the real world when you are say commuting to work in your car you consider that a team activity when your the only one in the car?
Xeno's already covered this but it bears repeating. MMOs are a social activity. What one person does affects everyone in the society. If people can use exploits, design flaws or broken builds to trivialize content it doesn't just ruin the game for them as if they were cheating at solitaire. It affects the levelling curve. It affects grouping dynamics, both by affecting the curve and because the tactic in question will leak out and get used by groups. Even if everyone who ever used the tactic in question only ever played solo, its use would spread and trivialize the game for more and more people. That's exactly what's been happening to CoH.
victory has been repealed on groud of you beeing egotistical mine furrer :P
Godwin's Law reference. Or more properly, to the following convention that whomever makes the first comparison to Hitler or Nazism has lost.
a prfct solution that require you to make no mistakes, comand your full attention at all times and will broken no comprimizes isn't perfect by definition, its a second job that you pay for the priviage to do.
Whose definition is that?
You never programed a game have you, ok smarly if things are so simple i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO
Non sequitur, as we were discussing playing games and not designing them.
funny how i have a lvl 50 defender who cant solo at all
If that's an Empathy (or maybe TA) Defender you're excused; otherwise I'd have to wonder what the problem could be. The other Defenders are quite powerful, properly built.
Nope actuall hes says "I5 was over kill, i6 was kicking a wounded man"
Right: he wants to return to the Bad Old Days with a token reduction in power. T'ain't gonna happen.
hell we even located the problem (a bug in invincbilit ythat tripled its buff numbers
First I've heard of that.
actuall that is the definition of a tank in a MMO, the on e who takes the hit and has a few good ones of his own, often at a cost such as a movement penetry fro mthe heavy [censored] armor. Granit armo is the /clasic/ defintion of MMO tanking.
No, tank classes in MMOs pay for defense with comparatively weak offense. I haven't seen one yet other than CoH that assessed a movement penalty: who would care?
tanks were never popular, ever, why because folk liked bieing a fast kill or glass cannon better then something that takes roughly 38 levels to be good at combat.
Riiiiight, Fire Tankers were never a FOTM.
Actually their not, its been prooven, PROVEN that a invuln tanker can function on just passive and dull pain, when 6 sloted my invuln could not stad up without dull pain for more then 3 secods agains a common spawn of 6 cabal at lvl 32,
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.
and when i soloed a madness mage at +3 (who at mele range use just s/l) it took me /11/ minutes to down him and that was using DP and inspiration to last that long and iwas stil lbeing hammered.
Don't you think a +3 BOSS should represent a major threat?
Invulnd by nature NEED to herd one of theor poers REQUIRES them to have mobs on their back at alltimes.
That's kind of like the Dilbert strip in which the PHM announces they're going to pay the programmers a bonus for every bug they find....
Um actually since ED doesnt ADD anything it cant BREAK anything by remving it except leting folks 6 slot powers again.
ED did not ADD one thing to the game, not one.
Sorry, but you're just being obstinate here. ED is incorporated into the design of CoV, meaning that to roll back ED all of CoV would have to be redone.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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I was never not wanted i always got a team and 80% of my friends list were + level tankers.
I've always been wanted. Often it was nothing more than padding or bridging though.
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back in I4 my FF defender was BEGGED FOR, peiole with hit me up on global jsut to ask me to pring out my defender, i got tesll on my scrapper"hey can ya get pink we coudl really use her"
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This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM