Yeah, it'd be mostly useless, but what else are you going to do with your vast mountain of leftover salvage?
Actually, it would be useful to have at least one "stored". If you get raided and your gen is destroyed (and somehow you still have 1.5M in the bank), you would just have to place it. If you don't have on stored up, then you're in trouble because your base is almost certainly too big to be powered by a single basic gen, and workshops without power don't work.
Also, it would be insurance against an "oops" moment where you accidentally sell your generator.
Also, it's the only way you would be able to upgrade a room in place if you don't have the space for a temporary room to store your crafted items. You just have to craft more of them and delete them along with the room when you upgrade.
No worktables yet. We just have a power room with a basic generator so far.
[ QUOTE ]
For those players who have reached the Salvage Limit with one or more pieces:
Is your SG capable of making a Worktable so you can consume some of that Salvage into the raw material? (Raw material has a limit of 99 currently).
[/ QUOTE ]
No but soon, with 50 of us all playing in VG mode all the time we should be able to afford the final component to be up and running. At least that will help, now if we could only afford enhancements. Damned if you do, damned if ya don't.
Cheers!
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it'd be mostly useless, but what else are you going to do with your vast mountain of leftover salvage?
Actually, it would be useful to have at least one "stored". If you get raided and your gen is destroyed (and somehow you still have 1.5M in the bank), you would just have to place it. If you don't have on stored up, then you're in trouble because your base is almost certainly too big to be powered by a single basic gen, and workshops without power don't work.
Also, it would be insurance against an "oops" moment where you accidentally sell your generator.
Also, it's the only way you would be able to upgrade a room in place if you don't have the space for a temporary room to store your crafted items. You just have to craft more of them and delete them along with the room when you upgrade.
[/ QUOTE ]
Using storage for spare equipment is everywhere. Military Bases, Your Motor Cyscle shop, My friends house that Runs a 4WD Club.
When I worked on Aircraft Stroage was essential. Spare Radios, Engines, Parts ETC. Were always availible. To prevent back ordering for out of stock parts, every month one plane was designated a can-bird in which a part was stripped to a mission essential craft and then the new part would be installed on the can-bird several days later.
Poz, gives us storage 
.
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
I LOVE SHOOTING THIS ONE DOWN EVEN MORE!
I'm not riding on a high horse, I personally HATE PvP. I have maybe played a total of ten matches in the arena & have been to all the new PvP zones just to check them out. I think the DEV's are making the price for items so high because they want the game to last forever & by having the prices high up, they will expect you to hang around & play a lot or play for a very long time.
I read the thread, I know it's about salvage, I simply frowned upon reading further into what you guys were actually wanting to say. LOWER COSTS ON EVERYTHING!
Don't you think that all this stuff has been tested?
Don't you think that the DEV's came together before the game was released & made a VG to actually see how it was going to work out?
Don't you think that they took the numbers from the current SG's in CoH, made a note as to how many characters were in each SG & said, "Hell, if they have SG's like this in CoH, then they will in CoV too!"
Maybe they are putting a cap on the amount of salavage that you can hold because they WANT you to use it, NOT hold onto it.
Be thankful that they didn't put a time limit on how long you can keep the salvage before it is dropped from you inventory.
[ QUOTE ]
I read the thread, I know it's about salvage, I simply frowned upon reading further into what you guys were actually wanting to say. LOWER COSTS ON EVERYTHING!
[/ QUOTE ]
Translation: I'm not going to bother trying to use my brain; I'm just going to flame anyways, because this is SURE to be another thread about 'BASE COSTS ARE TOO HIGH OMG!'. Even though it's actually not, I don't care.
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe they are putting a cap on the amount of salavage that you can hold because they WANT you to use it, NOT hold onto it.
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't see the contradiction between "They WANT you to use salvage rather than hold on to it" and "They have made starting costs too high to use salvage before you start losing drops"? 
Kam
[ QUOTE ]
I LOVE SHOOTING THIS ONE DOWN EVEN MORE!
I'm not riding on a high horse, I personally HATE PvP. I have maybe played a total of ten matches in the arena & have been to all the new PvP zones just to check them out. I think the DEV's are making the price for items so high because they want the game to last forever & by having the prices high up, they will expect you to hang around & play a lot or play for a very long time.
I read the thread, I know it's about salvage, I simply frowned upon reading further into what you guys were actually wanting to say. LOWER COSTS ON EVERYTHING!
Don't you think that all this stuff has been tested?
Don't you think that the DEV's came together before the game was released & made a VG to actually see how it was going to work out?
Don't you think that they took the numbers from the current SG's in CoH, made a note as to how many characters were in each SG & said, "Hell, if they have SG's like this in CoH, then they will in CoV too!"
Maybe they are putting a cap on the amount of salavage that you can hold because they WANT you to use it, NOT hold onto it.
Be thankful that they didn't put a time limit on how long you can keep the salvage before it is dropped from you inventory.
[/ QUOTE ]
I care not for costs, I'll be here a while. I want the current storage decor items to be used for actual storage functionality. Some of these things fill up a 1 x 1 square and offer nothing. With the high costs of worktables and the support function to run them we are losing salvage and components. Come here and offer a solution and take your temper tantrum elsewhere...
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
For those players who have reached the Salvage Limit with one or more pieces:
Is your SG capable of making a Worktable so you can consume some of that Salvage into the raw material? (Raw material has a limit of 99 currently).
[/ QUOTE ]
My SG has slightly less than 200,000 prestige. We're a small group. However, we also happen to work together and take on a lot of higher con enemies. We have several players who have hit the max for Glittershrooms, Blood Samples, and DE Samples, and a couple players have had to seperate Ectoplasmic Samples onto multiple alts. One player who did a lot of work in the PvP zones is maxed on a piece of Arachnoid salvage, as well.
It's even more problematic since, to take the example of the guy with Arachnoid salvage, I don't think he has the other part required to refine.
I'm not complaining about the salvage drop rate, but if it's going to take us another month or two to build a workshop at this rate, the caps need to be brought up or the workshop needs to be made much, much cheaper or require fewer prerequisete buildings.
First wanted to thank Positron for letting us know that the raw material has a higher limit. So once it can be crafted, that's an almost endless supply of salvage.
This thread did take off in a different direction. I was just trying to inform people that if you have 20 of a specific item, you should give a couple to your friends so you don't lose out on salvage. On that note, I will agree that costs are a little much, but not unreasonable. My active SG is pretty close to making a base that can support the table already. Granted, that still weeks away from a med room and mission computer and such, but it's a big start. I mean, CoV has only been out for a week. It's stuff you're supposed to earn.
Yes, my SG is large and active, the smaller ones have trouble getting to the same place. Personally, I think it's really too hard to close the gap between large and small SG's...
[quoteI think you misunderstood Positron. When he said raw material, he's talking about stuff like "Tech Material", "Tech Power", "Mystical Foci", etc... Since it takes 3 pieces of salvage generally to make one of those, you still have a ways to go until you hit the limit.
IE, you have a maximum limit of 20 E-Chips, but you can build one tech power from 3 E-Chips and you can hold 99 tech powers. Even if you fill up on tech power, you can use 2 E-Chips and 1 Armor Shard to make a tech material, and bleed them off that way.
Note: all numbers in the previous paragraph except the limits were pulled out of my butt.
In other words: Dropped salvage (many different kinds) is limited to 20 of each kind. Salvage turned into components is limited to 99 of each kind. Components turned into placeable objects is limited to ??. The maximum limit on placeable items might well come up too, if people start crafting like crazy just to eat up salvage. It'd be no trick at all to have 20 or so turbine generators to your name before your SG gets the space and prestiege to place a single one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure did, doh. However, I do have a couple items that I have 8 or 9 of currently. Since our calculations put a functional base around another 10-12 weeks away, I still think I'll hit the limit but I guess only some more time will tell.
[ QUOTE ]
For those players who have reached the Salvage Limit with one or more pieces:
Is your SG capable of making a Worktable so you can consume some of that Salvage into the raw material? (Raw material has a limit of 99 currently).
[/ QUOTE ]
Not even close. We have a very active SG and have been working up Prestige specifically to get *any* of the tables operational, but buying 3 rooms (Energy, Control, and Workshop), plus 3 functional components (Generator, Mainframe, Table) costs about 875,000. After 5 nights of playing hard and the 300,000 from the bonus, we still don't have a Worktable... and many are reporting inventories that are bulging.
Salvage rate is fine, IMO. It's the high prices of even the most basic items that seems high, especially with only one option. I'd like to see several low-end Generators and possibly a few low-end Mainframes to choose from, each with their own qualities.
[ QUOTE ]
For those players who have reached the Salvage Limit with one or more pieces:
Is your SG capable of making a Worktable so you can consume some of that Salvage into the raw material? (Raw material has a limit of 99 currently).
[/ QUOTE ]
We barely had enough to add the workshop and power room to our base with 50k left over. It sure goes fast, and with such low prestige from each kill, it's going to take us awile to get enough for a generator let alone a table for the workshop.
My sg has about 20-30 members, but only 3-5 of us are active on a daily basis. I guess it's time to recruit. 
Any plans to raise the prestige amount, especially for 50s? I find it hard to believe I'm still getting 14-17 prestige per kill with my 50.
Proud member of the LEGION, and Sisterhood
[ QUOTE ]
For those players who have reached the Salvage Limit with one or more pieces:
Is your SG capable of making a Worktable so you can consume some of that Salvage into the raw material? (Raw material has a limit of 99 currently).
[/ QUOTE ]
Only a large supergroup would have the prestige for a functional workshop, even with one table. Most supergroups are much smaller, so will hit the salvage limit a long time before they can process anything. If that wasn't as intended, you might want to look over the mathematic reasonings posted in other threads about base costs, and the time it takes to make them. We won't start seeing workshops regularly for awhile yet.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For those players who have reached the Salvage Limit with one or more pieces:
Is your SG capable of making a Worktable so you can consume some of that Salvage into the raw material? (Raw material has a limit of 99 currently).
[/ QUOTE ]
Not even close
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed. I'm fairly close to the limit of 99 myself. I personally have 79 pieces of salvage, and several other members are getting close to that. Our base has an empty power room and an empty control room, and about 98,000 prestige right now. We need 225,000 prestige for power and something like 150,000 for control before we can even consider placing a workshop for another 100,000 plus tables.
I sincerely doubt that the salvage will have much market value because everyone will have more salvage than they need or can use. About the best thing we can figure to do with it is to dump it on less-played alts in the SG.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this is what I'm seeing too.
Too little prestige to actually *do* anything with your base. That could be because of the totally bug or what not, but bases seem to be about 100% too expensive. I'm not that close to maxing my salvage, but I'm not that far either. And my SG is pretty relaxed about things.
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
#1-if you have a life outside of CoV, THEN DO IT! Nobody's stopping you from doing it. You don't hear me complaining about not owning a BMW but 3 people on my street do, do you? They work hard for what they want. If you want the grand base the you are thinking about, then you are going to have to work for it. It's that simple.
[/ QUOTE ]
Blah, you miss the point entirely. If the man-hours involved in producing enough Prestige is so high that it takes several months or even years of casual gameplay by a moderately sized Supergroup to build an operational base of Moderate size before any relevant benifit or use is gained from it then the content that was payed for in subscribing to the game is largely inaccessible, and that's a big negative. I'm not asking for instant gratification, I just want to see something that is more accessible, and what I'm currently seeing is the prospect of a very large amount of work and effort in getting very little to no reward over a long period of time. That's a big no-go in my book because that is not fun.
[ QUOTE ]
you gain experience at the same rate in VG mode as you do out of VG mode, it's the infamy/prestige that you want to refer to. When in VG mode, then some of your infamy is taken away to be turned into prestige, when out of VG mode, then you get full infamy
[/ QUOTE ]
Simply too many terms and I got them mixed up. Never like Prestige to begin with, would have rather just gone with paying by means of Influence/Infamy.
[ QUOTE ]
Thus the NEED for a LOW Cost Vault is seen and heard!
Maybe make a vault that naturally builds when you build a base... like the entry room is?
[/ QUOTE ]
/SIGNED!!!
A Base that automatically comes with a vault that holds Salvage AND Enhancements would be nice
[ QUOTE ]
For those players who have reached the Salvage Limit with one or more pieces:
Is your SG capable of making a Worktable so you can consume some of that Salvage into the raw material? (Raw material has a limit of 99 currently).
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously this is horrible planning on your part (the plural you). You guys make it impossible to have functional workbench without almost a million prestige and then limit how much salvage we can hold in the meantime.
LAME
seriously this is the biggest issue I have had with you guys so far. I am one of the few that hasnt been complaining about the balancing and ED and what not.
The base implementation has been more that a little disturbing. Prestige doesnt record properly (my vg is 300k behind as we speak), bases are an insane lagfest they are saving like every 5-10 seconds, It takes a ton of prestige to do anything, you have to spend prestige to buy items that you made with salvage (efectively buying it twice) and you have to sit on items that have a limit size weeks before you can use them.
The limit would be like handing out lvl 30 SOs to lvl 5 toons and telling them that they would be useful in a little while. At least the 5s could sell the enhancements.
LAME
[ QUOTE ]
Only a large supergroup would have the prestige for a functional workshop, even with one table. Most supergroups are much smaller, so will hit the salvage limit a long time before they can process anything. If that wasn't as intended, you might want to look over the mathematic reasonings posted in other threads about base costs, and the time it takes to make them. We won't start seeing workshops regularly for awhile yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
EXACTLY! She hit the nail on the head.
And here's the math... It takes 750k Prestige for a bare minimum base and the smallest worktable.
Small SG (6 people): Starts with 120k Prestige. They have to earn 630k Prestige. That means defeating about 63k minions (10.5k each) if they're high level, a lot fewer Lts, or a whole lot fewer bosses. Starting at level 1 like all villains currently, it'll be a lot more than that due to the partial Prestige awarded at lower levels. What are the chances that they're gonna max at least one salvage item? I'd say REALLY REALLY high. If they actively avoid certain factions, or actively hunt others, then it's pretty much guaranteed.
Larger SG (45 people): Starts with 300k Prestige (capped). They have to earn 450k. That means defeating about 45k Minions, or 1k each. I'd say it's REALLY unlikely that they will hit the max unless they hunt a very small number of factions.
My VG is in pretty good shape. We've got the 3 rooms, power, and control. Tonight we should have a functioning work table. But we're pretty organized and medium sized.
This salvage cap may start a whole black market for refined salvage. For example, people may offer to refine salvage for a "small fee".
P.S. I'm @TopDoc, VG is on Justice, and 20% sounds good.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
[ QUOTE ]
This salvage cap may start a whole black market for refined salvage. For example, people may offer to refine salvage for a "small fee".
P.S. I'm @TopDoc, VG is on Justice, and 20% sounds good.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've already offered a couple of friendlies a decent rate on contracting out their Salvage needs.
And so the business incubators have begun
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
[ QUOTE ]
And so the business incubators have begun
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey, these bases aren't cheap. You should see the SG "INF and Prestige" proposal I sent to my team leaders yesterday.
Just to put things back on track....
Kam posted this in an earlier post.
[ QUOTE ]
Basic base with a working worktable:
Energy Room, 150 K
Control Room, 100 K
Workshop, 100 K
Generator, 225 K
Mainframe, 150 K
Basic Worktable, 25 K
Grand total of three-quarters of a million Prestige, just to be able to do something with all these nifty drops. When you can cap out on a particular piece of salvage, losing further drops, before it's even possible to do anything with that salvage, something's wrong somewhere.
Kam
[/ QUOTE ]
While close... it's not completely accurate. In order to have a base that will operate only one worktable... Here's what you need.
Energy Room 150K
Generator 225K
Control Room 100K
Database 106k
Terminal 30k
Workshop, 100K
Basic Worktable 25K
Total 736k
You must have a control terminal to access your mainframe or database. This basic set-up will leave any SG with plenty of enough power for a while. It also provides just enough control to operate 2 basic work benches AND a zone teleporter.
The database provides the same amount of control as the mainframe.. but uses twice the energy. Energy in this set-up is abundant and prestige is not, so this is a cheaper way to go. You can always replace the database later when you have the prestige for the mainframe.
[ QUOTE ]
Just to put things back on track....
Kam posted this in an earlier post.
[ QUOTE ]
Basic base with a working worktable:
Energy Room, 150 K
Control Room, 100 K
Workshop, 100 K
Generator, 225 K
Mainframe, 150 K
Basic Worktable, 25 K
Grand total of three-quarters of a million Prestige, just to be able to do something with all these nifty drops. When you can cap out on a particular piece of salvage, losing further drops, before it's even possible to do anything with that salvage, something's wrong somewhere.
Kam
[/ QUOTE ]
While close... it's not completely accurate. In order to have a base that will operate only one worktable... Here's what you need.
Energy Room 150K
Generator 225K
Control Room 100K
Database 106k
Terminal 30k
Workshop, 100K
Basic Worktable 25K
Total 736k
You must have a control terminal to access your mainframe or database. This basic set-up will leave any SG with plenty of enough power for a while. It also provides just enough control to operate 2 basic work benches AND a zone teleporter.
[/ QUOTE ]
WRONG... yoou MUST have a Mainframe in order to have a database that functions and a terminal that functions.
Both databases and terminals are AUX pieces.
w00t Radio
I don't believe a database is a control generator; at least during beta, it was an aux item (i.e. will improve your control if it's attached to a generator e.g. a Mainframe, but does nothing by itself) - same for the terminal.
<edit> Bah, beaten to the punch. 
Kam
[ QUOTE ]
If they lower the cost amount on everything, that just means that the bigger VG's (villain groups) will have MORE stuff in there base & have a a BIGGER base.
[/ QUOTE ]
Buh-loney. All that is germane to this thread are the lowest-end features that will make it possible to start ridding people of the salvage they are amassing. Positron asked if those who are getting full could afford a worktable to turn some of their salvage into raw materials.
Oh, and bases are not just for raids, hence SG trials.