He so smart, he stupid. (Web of Arachnos spoilers)
By
Alevan,
Posted on: 2005-10-15 19:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
Really? So, who was that in the CoH trailer in the WWII-era footage with States and gang?
[/ QUOTE ]
Possibly a coincidence. Similar in looks only, and all that.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
[ QUOTE ]
I just can't believe how COLD Stefan/Lord Recluse became after they drank the waters. And being I love Greek Mythology, the whole play just gave me a great kick. But if you think about it, the Furies said "If two entered, two others must die." That prophecy DID come true, and no one died as a result.
I think they meant that the moment they drank the water, the people they were would die and a new being or person would be born. So, Marcus Cole and Stefan Richter died that day, and Statesman and Lord Recluse were born. They just needed that space to do it.
VERY good book so far.
[/ QUOTE ]
*gasp* What book!!!! Im so lost and confused *woobbles in corner* Im a very clueless person.. What book and who cartries it and is it a comic or a novel?
[ QUOTE ]
I finished the book last Thursday (yes, you read that right.)
Few thoughts:
1. Statesman is a lying liar. He's as much of a treasure hunter as Locke Cole was. Liar.
2. So, do the current members of the Phalanx know what a man about town States used to be? I can just see Manticore finding out and going "Dude! You used to be cool! What happened?!"
3. Is Recluse an incarnate of Zeus as well? The book never says that either of them are incarnates of Zeus, so that question is still a little hazy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Someone played Final Fantasy 6. Gotta love Locke Cole :P
Luficia's Virtueverse Page
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did Statesman get with his Quasi-Step-Sister and then Marry her, Betraying his best friend in the process ?
[/ QUOTE ]
Now, I come from the South, so y'all'd better take this how you will, but quasi-step-sibilings are fair targets the last time I checked. Certainly not ideal, but fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
As a social worker who works with at risk teens, I can tell you that tagging your step-sister is an old and honored tradition in many inner city households, as well.
I've seen some family trees that had loop-the-loops in them.
What I found interesting in the book is that though Statesman is recognized as Paragon City's first superhero he really wasn't, that honor actually went to The Dark Watcher (16 year old Devon Willcox). However, his parents' desire for him to avoid publicity kept him from gaining that designation.
Statesman (Marcus Cole) came second, followed by Vambrace (Brandon Warfield and James St. John-Smythe), Elementar (Raymond George Washington) and then Maiden Justice (Monica Richter sister of Stephan Richter aka Lord Recluse). All of which joined together to become the founders of Freedom Phalanx.
BTW I thought the book made it clear that Marcus Cole became a criminal only because he was desperate to find a cure to the lung disease that was killing him. After he was cured, he gave back everything he took plus.
[ QUOTE ]
Dark Watcher: Magic Mind Control/Force Field Controller w/ Stealth and Teleport pools
Vambrace: Technology Electric/Energy Blaster w/ Flight Pool
Hmmm... Vambrace is a two-man team. James John-Smythe would probably count as a Technology Illusion/Kinetics Controller.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't the Dark Watcher be an Illusion/FF Controller with the Teleport pool? He doesn't exactly control people's minds; it's more like he takes their worst nightmares and uses it to scare the crap outta 'em (Spectral Terror anyone?).
And I wouldn't have given St. John Smythe an archetype at all..
Dark Watcher - Illusion Control/Force Field/Teleportation, making him a Controller
Vambrace - either a Kinetics/Electrical Blast Defender or an Elec/Energy Manipulation Blaster, with Flight
Elementar - Storm Summoning/Electrical Blast/Flight Defender
Maiden Justice - Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper. At least at the point where I am in the book, she doesn't have Invulnerability.
Storm Summoning is great because it makes you better than everyone else in the game. - Camma
Knockback is mitigation. It won't be removed just because meleers ***** and moan. - Chaos Creator
[ QUOTE ]
I just can't believe how COLD Stefan/Lord Recluse became after they drank the waters. And being I love Greek Mythology, the whole play just gave me a great kick. But if you think about it, the Furies said "If two entered, two others must die." That prophecy DID come true, and no one died as a result.
I think they meant that the moment they drank the water, the people they were would die and a new being or person would be born. So, Marcus Cole and Stefan Richter died that day, and Statesman and Lord Recluse were born. They just needed that space to do it.
VERY good book so far.
[/ QUOTE ]
**SPOILER WARNING**
Well, since you've obviously read the book, I guess you completely forgot the part where two members of the Cole gang die while exploring the island where the Well of the Furies resides. The first one dies from a trap in the well, and the second one dies at the hands of Stefan after he and Marcus discover the black box.
PS: This whole thread should really have a big, bold, red spoiler warning on the front page. 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did Statesman get with his Quasi-Step-Sister and then Marry her, Betraying his best friend in the process ?
[/ QUOTE ]
Er.. technically, Monica wasn't Marcus's step-sister. Their parents were never married. Marcus was Monica's father's adopted son.. I dunno what that makes Marcus and Monica, but I don't think it makes them step-siblings. I could be wrong though. And what's with this betrayal nonsense? Marcus married Monica long after Stefan went to the dark side.
You know what I found most annoying.
The lack of PICTURES.
I know, I KNEW there were none, but I was hopeing to see some concept art or something.
I mean images of the hero's, the Way the city looked at the time.
Pics of the Nemesis robots.
SOMETHING..
I found my self in the later half of the book hitting the web trying to find images of Nemesis Bots that fit the description.
Ohh well.
And APRIL of next year?? sheesh. Long time to wait for the second book. Ohh well.
The 40's States looks like a nerd!
>_>
Just sayin'...
[ QUOTE ]
so...
Mr.States + Mrs.States................... Mr.Recluse + Mrs.Recluse
...............||................................. ...................||
...............||................................. ...................||
.........Statesman........................Maiden Justice & Lord R.
......................\\.......................//
.......................\\.....................//
.........................=====||=====
................................Miss. Lib + Mr. X
.............................................||
..........................................Ms. Lib
so...Lord R. is Statesmans Brother in law? and also Ms. Lib's Great Uncle?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a far more pressing question.
As I am sure I have seen a Mr.X running around on a couple of servers ... which one of them is the father or Ms Liberty?
Nadira
[ QUOTE ]
Like I mentioned, Marcus Cole begins the story as a fairly self-centered, self-absorbed character.
[/ QUOTE ]
And that changed when? 
As to who created the box, I don't think anyone really knows. It was opened 3 times, iirc, first by people who became greek gods (can't recall the names offhand), second by the women who became the Furies of greek legend, and thirdly by Marcus Cole and Stefan Richter who became Statesman and Lord Recluse.
It is doubtful any of the greek gods created the box. It is described as magical and technological, as well as being 'alien'. Also, it is doubtful any of the characters of greek mythology would take that kinda time to build it with the intent of making others into gods.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
[ QUOTE ]
As to who created the box, I don't think anyone really knows. It was opened 3 times, iirc, first by people who became greek gods (can't recall the names offhand), second by the women who became the Furies of greek legend, and thirdly by Marcus Cole and Stefan Richter who became Statesman and Lord Recluse.
It is doubtful any of the greek gods created the box. It is described as magical and technological, as well as being 'alien'. Also, it is doubtful any of the characters of greek mythology would take that kinda time to build it with the intent of making others into gods.
[/ QUOTE ]
Prometheus is a Titan (well, technically not one of the original titans, but he's still considered one). They predate the gods and goddess (Zeus, Hera and the like) in Greek mythology. And before the Titans there's Gaia and Chaos.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
I generally enjoyed the book, I managed to read it in a day, the style was fluid and easy too read, however I did have a few problems:
SPOILERS!!!!!
[*] I didn't really like Nemesis' portrayal in the book... he was too concerned with taking over the criminal underworld... also, he really didn't seem to be portrayed as the guy who has backup plans for his backup plans... and really... sending huge robots to take over Paragon City? Sounds more like a plan by the Clockwork King than the Prussian Prince of Automations.
[*] Some things felt deliberately hurried and sometimes characters wouldn't always behave as you'd expect them too.
[*] Why oh why was Recluse referred to as Stefan during the final fight but States refered to as Statesman? Couldn't we have Marcus vs. Stefan (to old friends now rivals fighting over unrecognisable differences) or Statesman vs. Recluse (showing that both had finally embraced their powers and destinies and become more than the sum of their parts)... instead we get Statesman vs. Stefan... okay...
END SPOILERS!!!!!!!
Apart from that it was a pretty good book, filed in the information on States and Recluse as well as providing some decent entertainment. Hopefully "Freedom Phalanx" will be just as interesting.
[ QUOTE ]
Lord Recluse: Science Invulnerabililty/Super Strength Brute/Incarnate
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but Recluse is a former Mastermind, not a former Brute. This is official.
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. Since our incarnates will not be as strong as States and LR could this be the explaination?
[/ QUOTE ]
A fundamental law of all RPG design is that player characters are NEVER to be allowed to be nearly as nice as the Mary Sue characters. Statesman is a Mary Sue.
AUGH!
Reading through even the first page of this thread, my mind numbs at all these people that claim to have read it but get details wrong!
Firstly...Maiden Justice and States had Miss Liberty, who marred someone Manticore refuses to disclose the identity of, and had Ms. Liberty. That's how it went.
Secondy, Maiden Justice's name is Monica Richter, not Maria Jenkins.
Thirdly, she did NOT become Ghost Widow. GW is the result of a relatively unknown Night Widow named Belladonna Vertrano dying in a mish gone wrong. She hung on by her love for Paolo Marino, who was the only other survivor and eventually became Wretch.
Fouthly, "Jimmy" St-John Smythe is the father of Johnathan St-John Symthe (science contact). (The lack of wheelchair didn't give it away?)
Edit : Aw crap...now I see that Manticore cleared everything up that I was yelling about....well, at least I proved I'm a CoH story fanboy. >.>
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Like I mentioned, Marcus Cole begins the story as a fairly self-centered, self-absorbed character.
[/ QUOTE ]
And that changed when?
[/ QUOTE ]
Never, is the obvious answer, as you intended.
However I, too, had trouble with this "paragon of justice" being a criminal and stealing millions of dollars in loot and no doubt injuring people in the process, but sloughing it off as his "wild youth." 
Meh.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As to who created the box, I don't think anyone really knows. It was opened 3 times, iirc, first by people who became greek gods (can't recall the names offhand), second by the women who became the Furies of greek legend, and thirdly by Marcus Cole and Stefan Richter who became Statesman and Lord Recluse.
It is doubtful any of the greek gods created the box. It is described as magical and technological, as well as being 'alien'. Also, it is doubtful any of the characters of greek mythology would take that kinda time to build it with the intent of making others into gods.
[/ QUOTE ]
Prometheus is a Titan (well, technically not one of the original titans, but he's still considered one). They predate the gods and goddess (Zeus, Hera and the like) in Greek mythology. And before the Titans there's Gaia and Chaos.
[/ QUOTE ]
And Gaia and Chaos got their power from the box, too, as I understand it. Which means it's been around for freakin'-ever.
Also, am I the only one who thinks Lord Recluse's initial hatred of magic as an explanation for the unknown makes a ton of sense?
-Lord Recluse and States, rolling new toons-
Lord Recluse : Hey, check it out, States, I made an awesome kin/nrg defender with a science origin - his story is way awesome. And so much different from my other chara- wait....you're...Magic....again
States: Yeah, what's wrong with Magic?
L.R.: I'm sick of doing that damn "Find the Necklace" mish, and street hunting Hellions, that's what! I'm so damn sick of you making some hero that found some obscure ancient greek artifact and got the powers of the gods! God! You'd think you'd use that masters in ancient history for something other than writing character bios!
---
Please don't nerf me, or go back in time and kill my ancestors. >.>
[ QUOTE ]
Secondy, Maiden Justice's name is Monica Richter, not Maria Jenkins.
[/ QUOTE ]
To be fair, until this book was released, the storyline of the game had Maria Jenkins as Maiden Justice, it might still even be in her contact info in game (haven't gone and checked recently), so the confusion came from the story elements that we already had. Maybe it was a mistake, but my views on it were expressed earlier in this thread. I've read enough comics to know when an editor is pulling a retcon from some dark place to cover a mistake, or to try to add importance to something that was added in later.
Call me a cynic.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Odd...I went to my local bookstore and they said the book wasn't coming out for another 3 weeks!
Tropic
www.cohwritersguild.com
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't trust them.
I went to Books-A-Million, and they said they didn't have, and weren't expecting, any copies. I was looking in the fantasy/science fiction section for something else to read, and I saw it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I went to Waldenbooks (smaller book store owned by Borders) and they said it wasn't in their computer as Web of Arachnos. I found it in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section and it turns out that the book is listed as City of Heroes not the actual book title.
Arc ID: 475246, "Bringing a Lord to Power"
"I'm only a simple man trying to cling to my tomorrow. Every day. By any means necessary."
-Caldwell B. Cladwell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's all so confusing!! Anyone else happen to notice that in Issue 3 of the Top Cow comic, Recluse says "My sister sends her regards" but how the heck would he know?
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe she turned evil, died and became Ghost Widow?
[/ QUOTE ]
No for one thing GW was in the fight when Recluse said that and the other thing was her name is something Italian, I just dont remember exactly what it was.
Arc ID: 475246, "Bringing a Lord to Power"
"I'm only a simple man trying to cling to my tomorrow. Every day. By any means necessary."
-Caldwell B. Cladwell
Ghost Widow is Belladonna Vetrano.
Storm Summoning is great because it makes you better than everyone else in the game. - Camma
Knockback is mitigation. It won't be removed just because meleers ***** and moan. - Chaos Creator
[ QUOTE ]
-As far as Maria Jenkins goes, there is a mistake in her bio information. Maria Jenkins was Madame Danger not Maiden Justice. She worked with Statesman in the 30's. Sorry for the confusion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? So, who was that in the CoH trailer in the WWII-era footage with States and gang? Sure looked like Ms. Liberty, in fact looks just like the early version of Ms. Liberty from the loading screen. I know that I always assumed it was Maiden Justice/Maria Jenkins. If it's Maiden Justice/Monica Richter, then there's a smallish problem. On page 31 of Web, Monica is described as having short, dark hair, and this heroine with a costume that appears to be inspired by Statesman's has long blonde hair. I know that it could have been Monica with a few more years of hair growth and some peroxide, just seems a bit fishy to me. Monica doesn't seem the type to change her hair color for simple fashion sense in the book.
Perhaps the footage was bad? Perhaps the Furies changed her appearance to reflect the look that the future wearers of the Girdle of Hera would have? Or perhaps it was a big, fat retcon to cover up an editor and writer who didn't actually watch the promotional trailer while concocting more ways to shoehorn Recluse into Statesman's past.
Just sayin'
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."