Personally, I don't need another endurance power. If I do, I can take stamina...
All I would like from Regen is for IH to return as a toggle. I'd much rather see PvP and PvE servers...if the issue is balance, I'd gladly reroll on a PvE server only just to have a toggled IH back.
If the issue is fun, well...I miss the toggle. I'm not a clicky guy. I took a year off--right before I4--and I'm back up to lvl 30 with my regen scrapper. I think all you need to know about my new feeling regarding regen is I acutally put off getting IH to lvl 30. I used to think those that didn't get IH at 28 need a psych visit...now? Bah...gimme my toggle back...gimme a reason to relish a lvl after lvl 16 in the regen set...
Kid Quills
[ QUOTE ]
new idea for regen and MoG's eventual replacement.
Since regen matches the other secondaries with just the first 7 powers, we need something different for the last two.
so, first we move revive to tier 9. Change nothing about it's recharge. But we change this power to be a compy of Mutation from the Radiation line. Give it a nice damage buff, acc buff, and recharge rdx to all powers as well as 75% hp and 50% end like now. The name becomes "Glorious Revival". I'd go with glorious ressurection but that's a mite religious.
Then, as our new tier 8 power, we get more of the other half of the regen set, recovery. Ideally, this would be a click power that click power that gives double the base recovery of quick recovery. I know, techincally its a conserve power clone. So what? Regen is all about the green and blue, so let's have it then. give it a similar recharge to CP of course. Call it Unflagging or Unrelenting or Tireless or something.
thoughts?
[/ QUOTE ]
Thought #1: doubling recovery != 1/2 end cost (conserve power). Doubling recovery is better. I don't know why people keep saying that.
Thought #2: Regen does better than match the other secondaries with the first 7. Buffing the last two would cause me to wonder why the best set was getting buffed, when the lower two (SR, Invuln) were not.
Thought #3: Revive probably should be buffed, if for no other reason than high level self-revives should have some benefit beyond eliminating the trip back from the hospital. You're dead: you've already paid the price for your hubris. A buff on a self-revive is much less balance-altering than anything else.
Thought #4: Funny you should mention this, because in my (as yet unposted) scrapper secondary balance analysis, I considered the option of taking quick recovery away from regen, strengthening it, and giving it to SR. Net damage mitigation change: zero. And yet, it creates all sorts of interesting balance opportunities.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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[ QUOTE ]
Thought #4: Funny you should mention this, because in my (as yet unposted) scrapper secondary balance analysis, I considered the option of taking quick recovery away from regen, strengthening it, and giving it to SR. Net damage mitigation change: zero. And yet, it creates all sorts of interesting balance opportunities.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now your just being mean...
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Thought #1: doubling recovery != 1/2 end cost (conserve power). Doubling recovery is better. I don't know why people keep saying that.
[/ QUOTE ]
i know. i just didn't feel like getting into it.
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #2: Regen does better than match the other secondaries with the first 7. Buffing the last two would cause me to wonder why the best set was getting buffed, when the lower two (SR, Invuln) were not.
[/ QUOTE ]
i know again. but how much of a dmg mitigation buff is this if at all? i was trying to do something with these two that would not result in more powerful mitigation but would still make us want the powers after IH.
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #3: Revive probably should be buffed, if for no other reason than high level self-revives should have some benefit beyond eliminating the trip back from the hospital. You're dead: you've already paid the price for your hubris. A buff on a self-revive is much less balance-altering than anything else.
[/ QUOTE ]
cool.
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #4: Funny you should mention this, because in my (as yet unposted) scrapper secondary balance analysis, I considered the option of taking quick recovery away from regen, strengthening it, and giving it to SR. Net damage mitigation change: zero. And yet, it creates all sorts of interesting balance opportunities.
[/ QUOTE ]
i'm not kidding when i say this, but if regen lost quick recovery without being given back another +end power, i'd quit.
i'll save further discussion of this thought for your next thread.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
I'm new here but I have a question...
I made a MA/Regen scrap on RV today so I was auto lvled to 40. I took every power except revive and slotted them all accordingly. Now, I skimmed through this topic and saw alot of people dis satisfied with MoG.
I dont know if MoG got a buff in I7 or not but I dont see how people dont like that power. It literally, took at least 20some Villains to kill me after a good 3ish or more minutes. Also, I've never felt so un killable in my life. even without IH its so easy to live through a 3man assult.
But yeah back to MoG, if someone could explain to me why no one likes it that would be great.
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know if MoG got a buff in I7 or not but I dont see how people dont like that power. It literally, took at least 20some Villains to kill me after a good 3ish or more minutes.
[/ QUOTE ]
the duration of MoG is 180s, 3 minutes. I promise you that you didn't last the entire duration of MoG. I've been using it in RV all day and so far, if actually stay and fight, i have yet to last more than a minute. And that's with def slotted too.
here are the quick points.
1. mog with 1 res slot caps your res to all but psy dmg. it also drops you to 25% hp. effectively, this is the same as having no res and full hp. why? you take 1/4th the dmg but have 1/4th the hp. so the dmg you take still removes the same % of your hp.
2. mog gives zero defense to psy and toxic dmg types. that means something with psy will kill you and kill you fast because you have 25% hp, no defense and no res to it. Toxic will only take slightly longer to kill you because you have no defense to it.
3. you can not heal at all for 3 minutes. defense against specific types is not enough to get them through 3 minutes, unless you run or are using it against stuff you don't really need to use it for in the first place.
4. you can achieve the same defense as MoG in pve with 6 small lucks. two at a time, they will last you 3 minutes and you still have access to all your healing.
5. the rest of the set, DP and IH, recon and Int, together are better than MoG will be fore 3 minutes. this is fact, its been proven numerically.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
Revival powers as Tier 9 just don't do it for me. I've always seen Tier 9 powers as the crown jewel of the set. The power that *IS* the set; that exemplefies the set; the power that upon seeing it you *know* what that set is about.
Elude = evasive/defensive scrapper set. Perfect for SR
Unstoppable = the epitome of Invulnerability.
Various Tier 9 Blasts = the loud BOOM of a Blaster.
Controller pets = The ultimate form of control in that the matter/power type in question is made material.
The list of examples goes on and on.
My suggestion would be to make MoG give a superior level of +Regen, moderate +Def, moderate +Res, and superior EndRecovery. At the same time, it would only last 30 to 60 secs and then you'd crash. Each of the other comparable powers give you nice bonuses up front and you pay for them with a crash at the end. MoG is different in that way in that you pay a whole lot up front, continue to pay it while it's active, and then pay that cost when it's nnot active. I'd also give it a 10-15 minute recharge (exact value would depend on how comparable the power would be to the other scrapper Teir 9s as well as considering whether or not they should be on such long timers).
This would make it ideal in that you'd want it for when you are out of luck, your inspiration tray has a couple of BFs left and your team is getting (or has been) wiped out. This allows it to stay within theme, it keeps the same relative level of power but has a drawback in that enough burst damage will still drop the scrapper and is NON-PERMA.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
i'd be fine with that too- i've suggested it in the past, but like arcana said, i don't see them giving us more dmg mitigation when we're already this good.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
[ QUOTE ]
hey eg,i have seen you in the chat channel a few times.each time though you do not respond.do you have a new toon without the lounge in the chat options by chance?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, as you found out, there are several of my characters who have yet to add the Lounge to their chat tabs.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #1: doubling recovery != 1/2 end cost (conserve power). Doubling recovery is better. I don't know why people keep saying that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree. When you're not attacking you're still getting back endurance faster. That's the problem with skipping Stamina for me even if I can afford it with endurance reducers.
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #2: Regen does better than match the other secondaries with the first 7. Buffing the last two would cause me to wonder why the best set was getting buffed, when the lower two (SR, Invuln) were not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because MoG is broken and Revive is not useful enough for a tier 8 power. SR is broken. It won't be fixed until the devs add a self heal to it and stop making SRs take seven powers that all buff the same stat. Invul won't be fixed until they roll back some of its nerfs. I support doing that AND fixing Revive and MoG.
Does Regen need the buff? No. But MoG is stupid the way it is. A panic button power should provide more mitigation that the powers that precede it.
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #3: Revive probably should be buffed, if for no other reason than high level self-revives should have some benefit beyond eliminating the trip back from the hospital. You're dead: you've already paid the price for your hubris. A buff on a self-revive is much less balance-altering than anything else.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just halve the debt when you revive. Give DA 33% debt reduction per mob they drain. Those powers will be immediately more popular.
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #4: Funny you should mention this, because in my (as yet unposted) scrapper secondary balance analysis, I considered the option of taking quick recovery away from regen, strengthening it, and giving it to SR. Net damage mitigation change: zero. And yet, it creates all sorts of interesting balance opportunities.
[/ QUOTE ]
You get your hands off me QR hippie. You need to stop with this foolishness and start working for what WILL fix SR. I.E. Roll the AoE toggle into the Ranged toggle and then replace the AoE toggle with a Reconstruction clone. Get drunk. Profit.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #4: Funny you should mention this, because in my (as yet unposted) scrapper secondary balance analysis, I considered the option of taking quick recovery away from regen, strengthening it, and giving it to SR. Net damage mitigation change: zero. And yet, it creates all sorts of interesting balance opportunities.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why oh why will people never learn?
The game isn't fun when characters and powers are nerfed. The devs haven't and won't learn this, but as players, this should be READILY apparent to everyone. Balance is done best when BUFFS are handed out...not nerfs.
I can't believe how much LESS fun I'm having now with my regen scrapper. I miss IH as a toggle so much I nearly cry everytime I think about how much fun my old regen scrapper was. Did nerfing IH do anything but make me quit for a year? No...and even now that I'm back, the IH nerf makes me want to quit again.
Fun doesn't need nerfed, and QR doesn't need to be taken away from Regen. BUFF other sets--and leave regen alone. Is it O.K.? sure...but it's nowhere near as fun as it used to be...
I liked being a Hero...I don't like being a constantly clicking Average Joe...
Regen is only the best of a bunch of crap secondaries now. Buff 'em all, I say...
[ QUOTE ]
You get your hands off me QR hippie. You need to stop with this foolishness and start working for what WILL fix SR. I.E. Roll the AoE toggle into the Ranged toggle and then replace the AoE toggle with a Reconstruction clone. Get drunk. Profit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or you could give SR a click resist power that functions like dull pain... Or dull pain for that matter.
As for what to do with MoG... I say it should be a click power that makes the next attack that lands insta kills us, right after we go nova and blow up everything on screen.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Im only half joking. I think it would be much more enjoyable then the crap it is now, and it wouldnt mess up any of Arcanna's math equations.
And it makes revive more usefull...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know if MoG got a buff in I7 or not but I dont see how people dont like that power. It literally, took at least 20some Villains to kill me after a good 3ish or more minutes.
[/ QUOTE ]
the duration of MoG is 180s, 3 minutes. I promise you that you didn't last the entire duration of MoG. I've been using it in RV all day and so far, if actually stay and fight, i have yet to last more than a minute. And that's with def slotted too.
here are the quick points.
1. mog with 1 res slot caps your res to all but psy dmg. it also drops you to 25% hp. effectively, this is the same as having no res and full hp. why? you take 1/4th the dmg but have 1/4th the hp. so the dmg you take still removes the same % of your hp.
2. mog gives zero defense to psy and toxic dmg types. that means something with psy will kill you and kill you fast because you have 25% hp, no defense and no res to it. Toxic will only take slightly longer to kill you because you have no defense to it.
3. you can not heal at all for 3 minutes. defense against specific types is not enough to get them through 3 minutes, unless you run or are using it against stuff you don't really need to use it for in the first place.
4. you can achieve the same defense as MoG in pve with 6 small lucks. two at a time, they will last you 3 minutes and you still have access to all your healing.
5. the rest of the set, DP and IH, recon and Int, together are better than MoG will be fore 3 minutes. this is fact, its been proven numerically.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was more of 3 min of DP, recon, IH and then mog. But I didnt slot my mog with res i slotted it with def.
*shrugs* you guys obviously know more than me about it but to me i dont think it needs any kind of buff. My situation was an extreme case of using an "Oh *****" power. In reality you prolly wont be jumped like that.
PS. less than 20 heroes but I have survived the entire duration of MoG.
[ QUOTE ]
i'm not kidding when i say this, but if regen lost quick recovery without being given back another +end power, i'd quit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a challenge. I believe I can design a regen set without quick recovery and without another +end power (sorta) you might still want to play, and would still basically fit the description of regen having the best downtime. But it'll have to wait until I can write it all up.
Give you a hint, though. Suppose integration wasn't so important anymore, and the constant reconstruction clicking went away?
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thought #4: Funny you should mention this, because in my (as yet unposted) scrapper secondary balance analysis, I considered the option of taking quick recovery away from regen, strengthening it, and giving it to SR. Net damage mitigation change: zero. And yet, it creates all sorts of interesting balance opportunities.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why oh why will people never learn?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm funny that way. You should have been here when I suggested power pool defenses not stack with SR defenses.
I'm incorrigible.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
Give you a hint, though. Suppose integration wasn't so important anymore, and the constant reconstruction clicking went away?
[/ QUOTE ]
Take away the constant clicking and I'd be thrilled....not thrilled enough to be happy about loosing QR though.
[ QUOTE ]
I considered the option of taking quick recovery away from regen, strengthening it, and giving it to SR
[/ QUOTE ]
See, everyone's missing exactly what needs to be done to balance out SR, and I'll post it here because the topic of discussion seems to have drifted to /SR and Quick Recovery. Gather around, children, and I shall share the wisdom. Arcanaville, you'll want to listen to this.
Since MoG basically turns a /regen into a /SR, lets turn the tables. Give the /SR folks a tier 9 called 'Moment of Envy,' that for exactly 1 minute drops all their defense and makes them into a full-fledged regenner with Integration, IH, Dull Pain, and QR running, and one self-heal available. Bam! Problem Solved! No more /SR players within 10 minutes of the patch! 15, tops.
You can all bow down, now. Cryptic, I'm available for hire or consultation.
Scrappers, GET TOUGH!
"I'm pretty sure it's deliberate. All they did was change the names and give the african americans super powers."
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm not kidding when i say this, but if regen lost quick recovery without being given back another +end power, i'd quit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a challenge. I believe I can design a regen set without quick recovery and without another +end power (sorta) you might still want to play, and would still basically fit the description of regen having the best downtime. But it'll have to wait until I can write it all up.
Give you a hint, though. Suppose integration wasn't so important anymore, and the constant reconstruction clicking went away?
[/ QUOTE ]
Anything that would require me to actually look at the blue bar is BS. If your idea makes me spend one minute in endurance management with my precious Kyll, it's an awful idea and I shall poke a voodoo doll with your image repeatedly. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
MoG is pretty darn good in RV right now. You'd be stupid not to take it.
[ QUOTE ]
MoG is pretty darn good in RV right now. You'd be stupid not to take it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not my experience. Any villain who understands how defense work will cut through MoG in seconds.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
B_C_P,
The only inconsistency is that when a regener activates MoG, all healing and regen GOES TO ZERO and they only function at 25% of their current max.
To achieve similar results with "Moment of Envy," every attack on you would have to be fixed to Auto-Hit, since you would have to have ZERO defense. And by doing that, well, even with everything running and a self-heal available, you are only a good spike away from debt and all of that "Green with Envy" syndrome becomes, and SRs should be used to this anyway,
"WTH happened? I got planted... Son of a <insert explicative here>!!"
At least with Elude you get the rest of your secondary and outside healing.
And, on the record, I agree that some of the SR defense powers should be combined and some form of self-heal should be included, or a power that heals some moderate enhanceble HP regen for every hit that misses, but that's just my mind wandering to give something different to SR.
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
ArchGemini: I know, hehe. Whole thing's just a joke. I'm aware that the issue with MoG and /SR is more complicated than just a little 'Moment of Envy.' 
Scrappers, GET TOUGH!
"I'm pretty sure it's deliberate. All they did was change the names and give the african americans super powers."
Is a fun thought, though. To think, "screw this, SR isn't working, let's try Regen-Style," do the \tarzan emote to represent integration and the changeover, and just go.
But the big thing about Regen compared to any other set and the subsequent teer-9 is that Regen does not care about who you're fighting unless they're bashing the -regen and -heal, whereas you have to worry about autos, toxic, and psi in Elude or Unstop (right?).
And can one of the big Regen-wigs please tell me why resilience is in the set for the low numbers that it has? Is it equivalent in use and/or purpose for the other secondaries or what? I would take Fast Healing again over Resilence, since at least it doesn't require Tough to be useful (but Tough makes everything a little more useful). For regens, resilience could be like more healing and/or (and I will be shot for this) a pinch more end recovery.
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
[ QUOTE ]
Anything that would require me to actually look at the blue bar is BS.
[/ QUOTE ]
As nice as QR is, it isn't infinite END even now. Without stamina, even regens have to manage END. In fact, even with QR and DC on my DM/Regen, I still run out of END in teams when I go all out. I'm afraid I can't take seriously the "unless regen has zero END problems at all, its broken" objection.
A serious balance concern to me is that the devs use END as a limiting factor on offensive output. QR effectively means that not only does regen have the best damage mitigation, it a priori has - and cannot possibly not have - the best long term damage output. Nowhere in the description of regen do I see that conceptually it must beat everyone on damage mitigation and simultaneously must beat everyone on damage output.
The issue is that QR was originally meant to power IH, and now IH doesn't need powering. Which means QR is really giving an offensive benefit, not a defensive one, and a massive one that was probably not originally intended. On the defensive side of the equation, regen now burns more end than it used to because of reconstruction, which is in effect replacing a lot of the original benefit of IH, at lower end cost.
If regen's actual regeneration was less dependent on burning END - if in essence regen didn't cost end to run - QR's reason for existence would be greatly lessened.
I wouldn't worry though. The devs have repeatedly stated both publicly and privately that they have no intention of altering QR. I think its because they are afraid of pissing regen scrappers off at this point. Which is good for regen scrappers, and I play regen scrappers, but when that carries more weight than actual material balance concerns, I'm not so sure that's really a good thing.
If nothing else, consider that if that's the mindset, if they ever change their mind, logic is not going to be a useful weapon to get them to change it back. Personally, I'd rather have what I have because the devs honestly think its the right thing for me to have, and not because of fear. SR has the (low) defense it has because of fear: just fear of a completely different sort.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
We change this power to be a copy of Mutation from the Radiation line. Give it a nice damage buff, acc buff, and recharge rdx to all powers as well as 75% hp and 50% end like now.
Then, as our new tier 8 power, we get more of the other half of the regen set, recovery. Ideally, this would be a click power that click power that gives double the base recovery of quick recovery. I know, techincally its a conserve power clone. So what? Regen is all about the green and blue, so let's have it then. give it a similar recharge to CP of course. Call it Unflagging or Unrelenting or Tireless or something.
[/ QUOTE ]
Edited and QFT!
I am the 99%. Occupy the World.
Minister of Infinity's Secret Police, Official Mooch of dUmb and League, Official Purveyor of Free Straws, the Most Interesting Man in the World.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes