that'd work too. who know if they can do that though. simple things tend to elude them, like toxic defense.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
At the rate the devs are going, MoG will not only Immobilize you, but also reduce your damage and take your health down to 25%!
Defense_Options:
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I have a strange Idea. Take Int and make it an auto power. But remove the defense to status protection and give it resistance instead. However inexchange for that it gets resistance to all effects, fear, slow, everything. But it does loose KB protection. Really does it make sense that because you heal fast you don't get knocked back?
Anyway just a crazy idea.
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Stupid_Fanboy:
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i'll take you one further. do that for all scrappers and tankers. tanks get kb protection though.
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A long time ago I suggested that one way to distinguish scrappers and tankers was to give scrappers ultra-high mez resistance, but no protection, and to give tankers ultra-high protection, but lower resistance. So mez tends to connect with scrappers, but they shake it off fast. Mez tends to bounce off tankers, but if you get them, you get them good.
To make this work, you would need to shift more of scrapper and tanker protection into the passives rather than the toggles, to prevent sudden mez death.
Then each one would be immune, or relatively immune (high protection, high resistance) to certain specialty mez. SR might be slows, regen might be sleeps, invuln might be disorient, say.
Removing knockback protection, though, would require a major boost to scrapper defenses. It made sense in I3 to take KB protection away from a perma-elude scrapper. It doesn't make sense to take it away from an I6 scrapper, because so much of their damage mitigation is tied into killing attackers quickly. But I think a lot of people would trade KB protection to get back I3 regen or something close: really powerful damage mitigation, but can be tossed around a lot. Sounds more scrapperish to me, anyway.
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I really like the idea of high mez resistance instead of protection. I really don't like how mezzes are basically irrelevant to melees. But to do it I think you need to make one major change:
No detoggling from mezzes.
It doesn't make sense anyway. Sure if you take control of Collossus' mind you can make him detoggle, but if you trap him in Ice, there no reason he would detoggle. Perhaps you can let psi mezzes have a PvE chance of detoggling and provide specific protection to that.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Removing knockback protection, though, would require a major boost to scrapper defenses. It made sense in I3 to take KB protection away from a perma-elude scrapper. It doesn't make sense to take it away from an I6 scrapper, because so much of their damage mitigation is tied into killing attackers quickly. But I think a lot of people would trade KB protection to get back I3 regen or something close: really powerful damage mitigation, but can be tossed around a lot. Sounds more scrapperish to me, anyway.
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bingo, that's exactly what i was thinking. it just... fits better. this is an overused example, but collossus and wolverine really fit my idea of coh tanker/scrappers.
Collossus doesn't get thrown around but wolverine damn sure does. Mez effects can really screw Collossus over though whereas they aren't going to mess with wolverine's passives.
and while this is a really old issue, i still think it was a bad move to stick so closely to mmo conventions that basic comic truths were ignored, i.e. no mez protection for the mezzers.
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▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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and while this is a really old issue, i still think it was a bad move to stick so closely to mmo conventions that basic comic truths were ignored, i.e. no mez protection for the mezzers.
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QFT. You try to hold Prof. X or Jean Grey or Cable and they'll smash you.
But again, it's the detoggling that's the problem. In other MMOs, you can get stunned, slept, etc. but it's not so bad because you haven't lost most of your protection in an instant. Mezzing is bad enough as it is, it doesn't need toggle dropping.
Get rid of toggle dropping and getting mezzed would be annoying but fine.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
every idea for this that i think of also involves a game wide rebalancing in the critter use of mez powers.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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Get rid of toggle dropping and getting mezzed would be annoying but fine.
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The reason why I prefer to shift defense into the passives rather than totally remove toggle dropping is that I think controllers detoggling half your protection (but not most of it) makes a whole lot more sense to me than controllers doing containment. If this unnecessary "toggles must be stronger than passives" idea went out the door, and was replaced with "give the baseline protection to the passives, and give the "extra" protection we want them to have to the toggles," detoggling would make more sense. It would serve much like the downtime of dull pain or the limited uptime of IH does: that level of protection would be extra protection to allow scrappers to be more hardy situationally, but you couldn't count on it.
Mez would then be knocking scrappers down from "great" to "good" and not "good" to "kitten." Which would be another difference between tankers and scrappers: tankers, with the stronger mez magnitude protection, would be much less likely to be detoggled, which means they get to keep their "extra" protection under much more hostile conditions. Which is exactly what we want.
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I tend to agree. In so far as Regen is concerned. I would think Inv scrappers should act more like Inv tanks with protection not resistance. DA I can see either way and same with SR. Regen to me is about taking the hit and recovering, that's resistance not protection. And the whole KB thing would require a boost to defenses because it would play heck with damage output, still it fits things.
Both get hit by a car
Wolverine goes flying but gets up and shakes it off.
Collossus stands and takes it or should it be a tank he gets knocked down and takes a good deal longer to get back up.
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Get rid of toggle dropping and getting mezzed would be annoying but fine.
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The reason why I prefer to shift defense into the passives rather than totally remove toggle dropping is that I think controllers detoggling half your protection (but not most of it) makes a whole lot more sense to me than controllers doing containment. If this unnecessary "toggles must be stronger than passives" idea went out the door, and was replaced with "give the baseline protection to the passives, and give the "extra" protection we want them to have to the toggles," detoggling would make more sense. It would serve much like the downtime of dull pain or the limited uptime of IH does: that level of protection would be extra protection to allow scrappers to be more hardy situationally, but you couldn't count on it.
Mez would then be knocking scrappers down from "great" to "good" and not "good" to "kitten." Which would be another difference between tankers and scrappers: tankers, with the stronger mez magnitude protection, would be much less likely to be detoggled, which means they get to keep their "extra" protection under much more hostile conditions. Which is exactly what we want.
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OK I can dig that.
signed.
So that would make Regen something like this:
Fast healing - 200% Regen buff passive
Recon - same
QR - same
DP - same
Integration - super mez resists to hold, sleep, disorient, immobilize (reduced held time to 1/3) passive
Resilience - mez PROTECTION to disorient (only protection, very thematic for regen) 10% Sm, Le, Toxic resists
Instant Healing - same
Revive - same
MoG - Fixed somehow
--------------------
And Invul something like:
RPD - 12.75% Sm, Le passive
TI - 20.25% Sm, Le toggle
DP - same
Resist Elements - 13.125% Sm, Le, Toxic
Unyielding - Mega resists to status
Resist Energies 13.125%
Invincibility - 2% for first mob, then 1% thereafter cap 10
Tough Hide - 7.5% defense to all but Psi
Unstoppable - Something
Hmm... I like.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
So that would make Regen something like this:
Fast healing - 200% Regen buff passive
Recon - same
QR - same
DP - same
Integration - super mez resists to hold, sleep, disorient, immobilize (reduced held time to 1/3) passive
Resilience - mez PROTECTION to disorient (only protection, very thematic for regen) 10% Sm, Le, Toxic resists
Instant Healing - same
Revive - same
MoG - Fixed somehow
--------------------
And Invul something like:
RPD - 12.75% Sm, Le passive
TI - 20.25% Sm, Le toggle
DP - same
Resist Elements - 13.125% Sm, Le, Toxic
Unyielding - Mega resists to status
Resist Energies 13.125%
Invincibility - 2% for first mob, then 1% thereafter cap 10
Tough Hide - 7.5% defense to all but Psi
Unstoppable - Something
Hmm... I like.
[/ QUOTE ]
If, and only if, containment was taken away, some of the damage mitigation in the passives would be shifted to INT and UNY, so that instead of doing double or triple damage when held, instead the controller would detoggle that extra damage mitigation away temporarily.
In PvE, this would require more villains to run toggles instead of having inherent protection, so there was something for controllers to detoggle. Running toggles also simultaneously solves another non-regen non-scrapper related problem: what use is end drain? For blasters and defenders, even if the drain to zero is only momentary, its a detoggle, and the villain has to either fight with less, or take the time to retoggle, and either one of those is good for blasters and defenders.
The more I think about it, the more problems it solves. Give everyone something like 50%-75% of their protection in passives, and 25% in toggles, and use detoggling to give end drain and mez their proper damage-amplifying advantages. It allows mez to actually work in the game without being overpowered, and provides a way to distinguish scrappers and tankers so tankers don't feel scrappers intrude on them on pure damage mitigation: they get to keep theirs under heavy mez whereas we don't - but that also means the "cap" on scrapper mitigation doesn't have to be so strict to prevent scrapper/tanker overlap.
You know, it might also allow the return of toggle IH, since IH can now be more readily detoggled via end drain or mez, at least momentarily. It would force the regen to stop to retoggle it, or fight without it, but it wouldn't be permanently up in high end fights no matter how it was slotted, so perhaps it would no longer be overpowered.
Although, haha, in this scenario, regens might want to *keep* the click IH.
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Me wants to cry thinking of memories past....
How about NCSoft starts up an I1, I2, I3, and I4 throw-back set of servers so we can enjoy the game in our hey-day?
That would be groovy.
There was nothing better than tanking a +10 boss with my inv/ice and a +5 mob with my DM/Regen.
I think the nerf will go like this: Instant Healing will now give you a nosebleed as your health bar bleeds out, MoG will finally just kill you outright since it kills me everytime I see a Regen take this power and use it, Revive will be eliminated since it is so damn embarrassing to use this power anyway. I would rather go to the hospital and log out in private shame.
QR, DP and Recon will have a click and recharge of however long it takes for the next issue to come out to nerf us again.
I have to be totally grim about every issue that comes out since I know regen will always get a kick in the nether-region.
Bring back Issue 1-4 servers for us nostalgic types.
A whole bunch of 50's.
i love this whole discussion but this has to be the most fanciful conversation that's taken place in either of the Lounges, moreso than even the "create-a-nerf" stuff. I really don't ever see them going back on their stance concerning risk. All this stuff would make soloing much easier and I just don't think they'd ever do that. Situational power has been their design goal for the last 4 rounds of nerfs.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
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i love this whole discussion but this has to be the most fanciful conversation that's taken place in either of the Lounges, moreso than even the "create-a-nerf" stuff. I really don't ever see them going back on their stance concerning risk. All this stuff would make soloing much easier and I just don't think they'd ever do that. Situational power has been their design goal for the last 4 rounds of nerfs.
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True but to dream the impossible dream can be fun sometimes. After all we're all just sitting around in this old stinky lounge after all anyway.....
Pass the beer nuts EG.
Reminisce....it is always good to do this. Kind of interesting to see how this game has progressed/regressed in all aspects since release and beta too.
I am still happy with this game though. Static means boring. Dynamic means there is still thought going into the game. Albeit sometimes the thought is more narrow than broad 
A whole bunch of 50's.
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i love this whole discussion but this has to be the most fanciful conversation that's taken place in either of the Lounges, moreso than even the "create-a-nerf" stuff. I really don't ever see them going back on their stance concerning risk. All this stuff would make soloing much easier and I just don't think they'd ever do that. Situational power has been their design goal for the last 4 rounds of nerfs.
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True but to dream the impossible dream can be fun sometimes. After all we're all just sitting around in this old stinky lounge after all anyway.....
Pass the beer nuts EG.
[/ QUOTE ]
*Passes beer nuts and beer*
SF, of course, you're right. But this idea, not even a buff or nerf, just makes so much darn sense. Sigh.
Situational uberness - oxymoron
What's so uber about being situational? 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
i love this whole discussion but this has to be the most fanciful conversation that's taken place in either of the Lounges, moreso than even the "create-a-nerf" stuff. I really don't ever see them going back on their stance concerning risk. All this stuff would make soloing much easier and I just don't think they'd ever do that. Situational power has been their design goal for the last 4 rounds of nerfs.
[/ QUOTE ]
This makes regen, and all scrappers, situationally powerful. Except, instead of the scrappers dictating when it happens, the actual *situation* dictates when it happens.
Yeah, that just makes too much sense to think it will happen.
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hey, what if we combined Revive and MoG?
so you die. BLARGH! then click Moment of revival and you stand up and do the cool animation. Then you get full end and a the full heal/25% hp drop with capped res and def. duration, 45s. recharge, 300s
then, in place of revive, we get that click power that I mentioned earlier that gives 1.5 base end recovery for 90s, recharge 500s.
eh? EH?
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
[ QUOTE ]
hey, what if we combined Revive and MoG?
so you die. BLARGH! then click Moment of revival and you stand up and do the cool animation. Then you get full end and a the full heal/25% hp drop with capped res and def. duration, 45s. recharge, 300s
then, in place of revive, we get that click power that I mentioned earlier that gives 1.5 base end recovery for 90s, recharge 500s.
eh? EH?
[/ QUOTE ]
It occurs to me we can give regens exactly what they want using this idea. We absolutely, *cannot* allow healing within MoG so long as MoG is discetionary. But Soul Transfer is allowed to be *really powerful* because its also a self rez: its not a purely discretionary power.
So, how about this for MoG:
MoG: when you fall, you can activate this power to revive yourself. When you return, you return with 70% resistances to all but toxic/psi, 25% maximum health, 60% defense, and +800% (Instant) healing. The power lasts 60 seconds, and has 650 second base recharge. When it expires, your maximum health returns to normal, and you are left with your current health and endurance (i.e. no crash).
Perhaps the devs would consider that balanced *because* its a self rez, and therefore self-limiting.
In effect, just like MoG is *supposed to be*, this MoG is useful when regen fails. In this case, though, regen really *has to* fail for it to be useful. But if regen fails, this power would be *really* useful.
Its definitely not a cheap elude anymore, but it isn't exactly more powerful than elude overall either. It now has the same downside as Soul Transfer, but in exchange it works like a regen power, and doesn't overpower the set by doing so.
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i'd hit it. after i died of course.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
zombie betty page?
In my travels as a MA / Regen Scrapper I've noticed that other ATs have strategies, tactics, and abilities that we as Scrappers don't.
However, I consider myself philosophy of all that is "Scrap" and have come up with acceptable Scrappy substitutes for these tactics.
1. Pulling Many Blasters have talked about something called a "pull". The idea is to subtley "encourage" one mob off the group in order to whittle down their numbers.
Well, as I see it the whole idea is to get one bad guy from point A to point B, so I came up with the the Scrapper version of "the Pull" which I have dubbed "the Push". Pushing involves running behind the mob in question and knocking him back to the group. What's that? ALL the enemies showed up? Wonderful! Saves me the trouble of running back to Push the rest of them!
2. Holds Apparently, those handmotions the Controllers do are actually a power and not just them wasting time with Emotes. They can keep a mob temporarily in place under their control hence the name Controller! Anyways, this is called a Hold. I know what you're thinking, "They hold the enemy? Bahahahaha! What's their Ultimate power? Dry humping them?"
But don't be so quick to judge this "holding" because as I will explain, Scrappers are the best at it. In Holding an enemy is temporarily kept for moving or using their powers. However, a Scrapper can easily keep an enemy "held" indefinitely simply by killing it and I don't need to tell you that we Scrappers are the best at killing! Genius!
3. Taking Mass Aggro Now as Scrappers we know what Aggro is (a Mob's uncontrollabe jealousy over how awesome we are) , but did you know Tankers can take aggro from multiple enemies and do this is repeatedly? I know! The bastards can't kill their own mobs so they want to take all OUR'S!
As infuriating as it is to have a Tanker taunt that LvL 53 Infernal AV off of your epic solo battle (Damnit! I had him on the ropes! Those last 20 HP I had would have clearly stretched me to waiting for Archmage to pop again!), it is a solid fact that you can Aggro a thousand times better than any Tanker. Most Tankers rely on a few key factors: A. Good solid resistences and HP B. Inteligent use of Taunts & Gauntlet and C.Waiting for the team to get ready. As a Scrapper, you don't need to pay attention to any of these, infact they'd just hold you back! Right before the team gets ready, run past any and all Mobs ahead of you. Our buddies the Empathy Cheerlea- Errr defenders know about this and start our race to glory with their cue "Gather for AM, plz". You'll be Aggroing each and every damn one of those Council, Freaks, and Mitos in no team! Hell! I got so many at once that my team left the map before we finished the mission, they must have thought that I did such a great job that the mission was finished!
Learn well young ones! For someday, even you may enlightened enough to delve into all that is "the Scrap"!
I thought the scrapper "pull" was running in and grabbing one just by showing up, and letting him follow you back to your team.
But just like a blaster pull, sometimes we don't get just one. But unlike a blaster pull, we don't care. 
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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i'd hit it. after i died of course.
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That kinda MoG has my name on it.
I want!!
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
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i'll take you one further. do that for all scrappers and tankers. tanks get kb protection though.
then give squishies mag protection and no resistance.
hmmm, then change all toggles to long duration, short recharge, perma clicks.
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You could but why not just have toggles on tanks and scrapper not drop when mezzed.