The Last CoV Primer - How's This Gonna Work?
By
40Thieves,
Posted on: 2005-06-02 17:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Well, I just hope he appreciates that I not only answered his question, but answered it before I went Nettiqute (sp) Nazi on him.
If Shadow can learn those two things, he will be ahead of many people, most of who are over 21.
Kinda reminds me of being 16 and hearing the 7/11 guy admit in amazement that he would never of carded for alcohol me when he heard my mom mention my age... (Had a young girl argue that I had to be at least 30-something then too, cause of my full beard at the time.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Here is a New Addition for the Primer:
Will the CoV Beta be on the Test Server?
Per Lord Recluse (and all reason): No.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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you know that is right but hey your probaly a geek ok im a 14 year old and has a part time jod i dont make money like you and do have a life out side a game i spend like an hour a day playing the game couz i dont live and breath coh 
so dont take this the wrong way but thats the way i fell this is for darl cowl
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You have a fair response, shadow. Understand that, because you have limited time and cash fluidity, you might have to make some some choices that some others don't. However, I'm thinking the fee situation - however it plays out - is not as dire as some imagine. Even if you decide not to have both games active all the time, the option remains for you to switch back and forth from villainy to heroism and back on a monthly or bi-monthly basis. Try and hold out on your final judgement until the formal announcement is made, then unload with both barrels if you have to you! 
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you know that is right but hey your probaly a geek ok im a 14 year old and has a part time jod i dont make money like you and do have a life out side a game i spend like an hour a day playing the game couz i dont live and breath coh so dont take this the wrong way but thats the way i fell this is for darl cowl
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You have a fair response, shadow. Understand that, because you have limited time and cash fluidity, you might have to make some some choices that some others don't. However, I'm thinking the fee situation - however it plays out - is not as dire as some imagine. Even if you decide not to have both games active all the time, the option remains for you to switch back and forth from villainy to heroism and back on a monthly or bi-monthly basis. Try and hold out on your final judgement until the formal announcement is made, then unload with both barrels if you have to you!
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Yeah, as per EvilGeko - don't go all anti-dev before the "issue" (in this case CoV) is released. If it is released and you don't like it, then feel free to enter a killing frenzy.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Dang! I got a PM from CatMan about updating this Primer a few days ago and I was like, "Wha?!? What part of Last CoV Primer don't you understand?" However, I'm bummed that all the E3 reports I linked to are kaput in addition to all the info I missed that came out in CGW literally the day after I posted the OP.
I'm hip deep in some business in TX until around the end of July, but I'll see if I can whip up a 'Farewell Tour' edition of the (for real) Last CoV Primer. It'll be tricky because I'll have to get that CGW issue back from my brother and all my CoV notes and saved threads are in CA.
We'll see...
Farewell Tour eh? take your time. business first. Catch all confirmed information threads that no one seems to read except us die hards second.
as always Clint. yer the man!
and it might not even be the last CoV Primer we'll beg from you.
remember a Primer is usualy the charge you use to ignite the real deal. unfortunately CoV beta still appears to be a lil ways off.
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i know that every one else that is going to get cov thinks that same thing.
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Realy im going to be getting it and i could care less if its 5,10 or 15 dollars more if its a great game that will keep me interested and keep me into it and enjoying it than ill pay, not everyones a cheap [censored] like you sorry, but its true, and ill be paying for wow so i could care less realy. But there are those that dont want to pay too much but thinking your going to be getting it free is pretty ignorant, you keep playing your little dream world but ill stay here in the real one.
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every time that an expansion comes out for uo/eq/eq2/wow/gw/et cetera, i should pay 5/10/15 MORE on top of the 15-20/month i'm already dishing out per game?
COV is an expansion to COH. if you want the guild houses (i.e. SG/SV bases), then you HAVE to buy COV. Heck the trade skill/professions thing might end up being a part of the COV deal.
i'm not really sure how to react to that thought of paying more and more for an online game when expansions come out. coh isn't even two years old yet and you're saying it's cool if they double the monthly charges.
i think someone is living in a dream world by believing it's ok to charge extra monthly fees in order to play an expansion to an existing game.
Gotta love it when links go patute. 
No worries Clintonian, just don't let the Humidity of Texas get to you.
Now, what do you mean by Farewell Tour? You leaving the game or something?
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
Btw Clint, have you checked out the Computer Gaming World 10 page CoV article? They have tons of good info in there like a Halloween release date if I recall and tons of details about the new ATs. I believe you can actually get the article online from the CGW website.
(If you or someone has already mentioned this, I apologize for being redundant!)
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COV is an expansion to COH. if you want the guild houses (i.e. SG/SV bases), then you HAVE to buy COV. Heck the trade skill/professions thing might end up being a part of the COV deal.
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Might.
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i'm not really sure how to react to that thought of paying more and more for an online game when expansions come out.
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i think someone is living in a dream world by believing it's ok to charge extra monthly fees in order to play an expansion to an existing game.
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If it were a simple expansion, you'd need CoH to play CoV and vice versa... but you don't. An example I've given many many times, now, is that CoH and CoV are like Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue. You don't need one to play the other... but to have access to certain bits of content, you'd need both.
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Heck the trade skill/professions thing might end up being a part of the COV deal.
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Except they have given ZERO indication of this. Bases have a direct connection to PvP, skills don't.
In additon, only 1 person in a SG actually needs to buy CoV.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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An example I've given many many times, now, is that CoH and CoV are like Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue.
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I'm sure that's a wonderful analogy for people who have any idea what you are talking about. The bottom line is they haven't answered this question yet, and given the contradictory things they have said, I don't think they have even decided on an answer yet. Even if they have made up their minds, they might change their minds during beta, or even later.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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If it were a simple expansion, you'd need CoH to play CoV and vice versa... but you don't. An example I've given many many times, now, is that CoH and CoV are like Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue. You don't need one to play the other... but to have access to certain bits of content, you'd need both.
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these pokemon games you're playing, you pay a monthly fee for them? if not, then your comment isn't that relevant.
cov is very much an expansion to coh, if it weren't, then how is it you HAVE to buy cov in order to get bases for your hero?
if you're just throwing out answers because you're a fanboy, sorry, warn me next time so i know.
City of Villains is not (strictly speaking) an expansion to City of Heros because it can also be used as a stand alone game. You can buy CoV, install it on your computer and play it without ever having touched CoH. If you do that and later decide you want to engage in Villain vs Hero PVP you will need to buy CoH.. to act as an expansion for your CoV game.
See the distinction here? They are two stand alone games that interact synergistically if you have both.
On a different note, when I was at Origins 2 weeks ago I was told you still started with no powers at 1st level. It's possible the guy behind the counter was wrong of course, I didn't think to confirm with Statesman because I hadn't heard there were conflicting rumours.
-Andor
Hmm, COH+separate game-COV+separate game = pay fees for both
No brainer here and for those that don't like, cancel the YMCA or fitness center membership your not using anyway.
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If it were a simple expansion, you'd need CoH to play CoV and vice versa... but you don't. An example I've given many many times, now, is that CoH and CoV are like Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue. You don't need one to play the other... but to have access to certain bits of content, you'd need both.
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these pokemon games you're playing, you pay a monthly fee for them? if not, then your comment isn't that relevant.
cov is very much an expansion to coh, if it weren't, then how is it you HAVE to buy cov in order to get bases for your hero?
if you're just throwing out answers because you're a fanboy, sorry, warn me next time so i know.
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Ah, but there's a further concern. You combine Pokemon Red and Blue and get to see extra stuff, as you do with CoH and Cov. So that's the same.
The monthly fee is because this is an online game that comes with quarterly "Issues". That's the difference.
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these pokemon games you're playing, you pay a monthly fee for them? if not, then your comment isn't that relevant.
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It was an analogy not an exact replica of the situation. It's impossible to miss the similarities. The game design works the same way, that's the point. You don't play the pokemon games off of large load balancing servers with thousands of people across the world. There are no updates to the pokemon games. There are no need for GM's to moderate the games. That's where the cost comes in.
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cov is very much an expansion to coh, if it weren't, then how is it you HAVE to buy cov in order to get bases for your hero?
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No, it's not an expansion. The bases are an example of the extra content you get if you have both. If you were to only have CoV, would you say that CoH is an exansion for it because you need it to fight heroes? I guess from that point of view, both games are expansion to each other. And following your logic that you shouldn't pay for expansions, they should all be free.
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if you're just throwing out answers because you're a fanboy, sorry, warn me next time so i know.
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No need to get juvenille.
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these pokemon games you're playing, you pay a monthly fee for them? if not, then your comment isn't that relevant.
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The relevance is within the fact that City of Heroes and City of Villains are both standalone, much like Pokemon Red and Blue... but they can build off of each other. As noted previously, what about those who only get City of Villains? Wouldn't City of Heroes just be an expansion?
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cov is very much an expansion to coh, if it weren't, then how is it you HAVE to buy cov in order to get bases for your hero?
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Because it's part of the City of Villains package. There may be things in CoH that CoV won't get. You don't know yet.
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if you're just throwing out answers because you're a fanboy, sorry, warn me next time so i know.
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I didn't think that the fact that CoV isn't just an expansion was so classified or made-up that it made me seem like a fanboy, so I apologize for my ability to pay attention to posts on such matters which have been all over the forums, at some point.
Thanks for posting this, Clintonian. It is very helpful to have a single resource to peruse.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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If it were a simple expansion, you'd need CoH to play CoV and vice versa... but you don't. An example I've given many many times, now, is that CoH and CoV are like Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue. You don't need one to play the other... but to have access to certain bits of content, you'd need both.
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these pokemon games you're playing, you pay a monthly fee for them? if not, then your comment isn't that relevant.
cov is very much an expansion to coh, if it weren't, then how is it you HAVE to buy cov in order to get bases for your hero?
if you're just throwing out answers because you're a fanboy, sorry, warn me next time so i know.
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As far as the basics go, it is exactly the same.
With the pokemon games, each version has pokemon and items that it's partner version(s) don't. If you don't link up to the other(s), you never get them.
Here, you never get to (personally) build a SGBase if you don't have CoV, although you can go in them, from what I recall.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Hmm, COH+separate game-COV+separate game = pay fees for both
No brainer here and for those that don't like, cancel the YMCA or fitness center membership your not using anyway.
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Someone never read the primer. It has been established again and again that we will NOT pay fees for both if we have both. The devs said a $3-5 increase to pay for the extra GMs and other employees they have to hire to maintain COV, and make new updates for it. The increased fee is to pay for increased expenses. they could cut the fee somewhat if they didn't make the big updates free. Would you like them to be sold seperately, a la Everquest, shelling out another $50 every month? Sorry, I think I just started ranting about all the complaints about the increased fee.
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
[URL="http://paragonunleashed.proboards.com/index.cgi"][IMG]http://gamefacelive.com/bre/joker.png[/IMG][/URL]
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The devs said a $3-5 increase to pay for the extra GMs and other employees they have to hire to maintain COV, and make new updates for it. The increased fee is to pay for increased expenses. they could cut the fee somewhat if they didn't make the big updates free.
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This is fundamentally correct, but I'd like to offer a clarification (warming up for the 'Farewell Tour' edition of the Last CoV Primer ). The hypothetical increase is technically $0-5. Call me a pollyanna, but until the final word comes out, I'll still pin my hopes on the possibility of a zero dollars increase for CoH+CoV. Not for me, really, but for others who are enthusiastic for CoH+CoV and are already at the breaking price point right now.
I think the idea of tossing around the idea of a slight increase of the fee for CoH+CoV came from the reality that a certain amount of the monthly fee for each game is roughly pegged to the budget for Issues. If a player subscribes to CoH or CoV singley, hypothetically, a couple of dollars a month is thrown at the building of something like an Issue 2 or Issue 3. I'll call that the 'update fee' because we all know that thrice-yearly updates are not exactly free. The rest is thrown to NCSoft, infrastructure/maintenance, and customer service. If a player subscribes to CoH+CoV and both games are each updated as just CoH has been thus far, CoH+CoV players are getting much more bang for their buck if there is no overall fee increase. Cryptic doubles their work for those subscribers without doubling the 'update fee' portion of the monthly subscription. Of course the dev team could water down the updates - especially if they are blended - and keep the same static monthly we have now for both games. That'll mean some paring of the staff after CoV's launch to maintain their budget concerns unless CoV sales are just unreal.
Just my thoughts as they continue to coalesce. We'll see how it goes.
Oh, and to CatMan, I'm intending a 'Farewell Tour' for the CoV Primer only. This little project of mine was just something I did for myself once I got the CoV bug that I thought I'd share. I also wanted to devlop a tool that would cut down on the repetition in my postings (failure! ). During beta and after launch, I'm sure the more compulsive fans will dissect the details much better than I have the time for, so the Primer will become a vestigial thread that will unsticky and fade away. *sniffle*
I will be around for at least another year, for better or worse.
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Someone never read the primer. It has been established again and again that we will NOT pay fees for both if we have both. The devs said a $3-5 increase to pay for the extra GMs and other employees they have to hire to maintain COV, and make new updates for it. The increased fee is to pay for increased expenses. they could cut the fee somewhat if they didn't make the big updates free. Would you like them to be sold seperately, a la Everquest, shelling out another $50 every month? Sorry, I think I just started ranting about all the complaints about the increased fee.
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I missed that and all that means that all the whiners can quit whining (even if a fee hike occurs) then. Besides, if folks don't want to play games like this, there are enough freebie games to play. Majority of the hacks, cheaters, exploiters play those games, cheers!
Clint, the 10 page article in Computer Gaming World has TONS of Emmert quotes and a lot more updated information on the new ATs than what I see on the 1st page of this Primer.
Hahaahah you didnt have to tell us you were 14. Can this thread return to the useful information? Someone give Clint some Mod rights!
The Kronos has a hold n00b!