Issue 4 Changes for Gravity - Official Thread
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2005-03-22 14:26 in Developers' Corner
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Why does moving a group matter? Well, if I can clump everyone together I can get better payout for my AoEs, like GDF and FS.
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My problem with this would be that I use my area power (GDF) as my opener because I want to avoid aggro. How does moving a pack of foes help me avoid that? It doesn't. It opens me to aggro. If I move a group for ideal placement into the other group, sure, the disorient will keep the first disoriented a bit. However, I'm worried that the group I didn't disorient will react or that I'll have to be in range of both and have to take aggro from one pack or the other (and apparently the larger pack).
So, if I'm using GDF as my opener, moving them AFTER won't help much. Moving them before seems risky. Either there are enough guys that the aggro I suffer will be scary, or else I'm just making small groups and singularity feeding more efficient. That's something gravity is already good at.
I deleted my gravity controller so I can't test. I will rely on you guys. I'd LIKE to have a reason to go back to gravity. Chewing small packs more efficiently at the cost of the isolation utility doesn't seem worth it to me ... YET. I want to hang with the big dogs on huge group and reliable mass pack coverage. That's why I switched to Ice.
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And you guys do know that if you don't like the new wormhole, it is probably our constant call for a secondary AoE mezzer that caused it to get changed. . . . Ready, aim, fire! Ouch! My foot!
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I just wish it had addressed what I felt was missing. To me, one of the few satisfying joys, albeit a minor one, was the single target extraction. That is gone now. How big is the area of Wormhole? I doubt I'd be able to move FF generators and DE droppings without getting allies. At least in the case of some of them, the droppings dont move so any moved allies may re-approach me and so it would be a reduced extraction. Maybe the wimpy disorient time would give just enough time to get a "more than just the one I wanted" extraction under control again. I don't like the idea of moving rank and file foes out of my focus area.
Oh well.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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How big is the area of Wormhole?
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Same size as GDF.
My 2 cents on changes ... should have pretty much left wormhole alone as it work best on TPing only one baddie
at a time only thing I would have like to have seen is recharge time be a lil faster and also make wormhole TP freindly to TP teammate too. : )
If they going to make wormhole an AoE think I might have to respec it out of my current build !!!
Could always be boost Pet travel speed.
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ARRRGH!!!! I AM TRAPPED AT WORK!!! MUST PLAY UPDATE 4!!!
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Not only am I trapped at work, but I am stuck on a dialup internet connection until after Easter Monday.
waaaaaaa...
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The aoe effect has the same radius as Gravity Distortion Field, however the location you teleport the mobs to stretches the mobs out into a line with about 3-5 feet between them all. Forget trying to to port mobs into a nice cluster for aoes: it just won't happen.
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That sounds absolutely perfect for Full Auto. (I team regularly with a AR blaster)
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How big is the area of Wormhole?
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Same size as GDF.
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Egad!
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
After playing with it a bit I found some enemies would get knocked back and some didn't when they came out of the wormhole. I'm finding that I can clump two groups together before using GDF. But a lot of the times there is one or two guys that are throw out of the area and don't get held because the are out of range.
My original hope for wormhole was a really fast casting (ala lift) with no knockback. Then I could have been moving enemies all the time.
For now I think the AoE wormhole is a good start. This is the only group foe tp in so far. There is great potential for this.
They just need to give it a longer disorient duration and make knockback optional.
The I4 Wormhole is like an amalgamation of our requests in the huge controller thread.
We wanted a "gravity well" that would clump mobs together. Wormhole does that...as a single click, not constant.
We wanted an AoE disorient. Wormhole does that...but with too short of a duration.
We wanted an AoE lift. Wormhole does that...but doesn't do damage.
What we didnt' want...increased recharge time. loss of precision single target pulling/pushing. It's time for a change in tactics for Wormhole users.
Questions: what's the disorient magnitude on Wormhole? How long are mobs taken out of commission if sent straight up into the sky (rain of mobs!)?
i'd say its a Magnitude 3 Disorient as Lieutenants come out disoriented but not bosses. Not sure if there is a critical effect or not. I'm working to further test this.
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I don't see how this closes the control gap at all. Processmeatman and the rest of us have posted numerous times on this power and our testings.
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It's duration might not be spectacular, but that's why you slot things
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PMM and others, found the duration to be 10ish seconds with 1 accuracy and FIVE!!! Disorient Enhancers.
Still a fun power, but in no way does it even remotely touch our control gap issues.
As for being the best Single target mag builder in the game: What glory is there to that? The only things that even needs that much magnitude stacking are Monsters and AVs that compose what percentage of all CoH encounters? Subpar in about 99.99% of all CoH fights, but we are above average in that 0.01% Yay...
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What he said. It's cool, but the disorient duration is ridiculously short even with enhancements. And increased ability to build mag makes our distinction among controllers what.... "Less halfass against AVs than other controllers are"? Not a bad perk, but not something to write home to mom about either.
We're on the right track, but we still need some tweaking and tuning before this goes live before our problems are dealt with.
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Single target holds work to diable DE eminators and FF generators (not 100% on the gens). You don't need to wormhole them away.
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Hmm. I've tested holding emanators and generators, as well as Total-Focus-stunning them with my tank, and never been able to disable them. (Plus of course it's really hard to hold the emanator that prevents holds...)
Maybe this is something that has changed in a recent issue? Guess I should go test again.
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We wanted a "gravity well" that would clump mobs together. Wormhole does that...as a single click, not constant.
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Well, no clumping really unless you have a handy corner to shoot everything into. It tends to arrange the mobs so that they're all set to break into a Texas Line Dance.
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Single target holds work to diable DE eminators and FF generators (not 100% on the gens). You don't need to wormhole them away.
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Hmm. I've tested holding emanators and generators, as well as Total-Focus-stunning them with my tank, and never been able to disable them. (Plus of course it's really hard to hold the emanator that prevents holds...)
Maybe this is something that has changed in a recent issue? Guess I should go test again.
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Holds haven't worked to stop them for me, either. I usually either force bolt them out of range and then slap on a hold, or just let a scrapper deal with them.
I haven't gotten to actually TEST things in the arena yet. Since there was no reliable way to actually get to play in the arena.
But tanks and scraps in the late game have mez protection 15. Is this number changed in PvP? Does 'mez immunity' begin once you are hit with a power or once you are affected by a status effect? If it is how it sounds, you get it after you have been mezzed and the duration ends.
That still makes us the best class at turning off toggles for tanks and scraps. Get yourself set up at range so the melee types are in singie range. Throw your AoE hold (hopefully from a position of safety from the backline blaster/controller/defenders), spam single hold button until the meleer is held and his toggles drop. Observe the pain. Toss transfusion to reduce regen rate. 
I know, these PvP matches are gonna get really quick and hairy really quick. That just increases the importance of good controllers--we can slow the battle down.
just thought of something about wormhole and pvp..
Wormhole is now an area of effect, a disorient AND knockback. So does that mean if we use it in pvp we don't only offer mass protection from 1 mez effect but two...
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For those types that like the numbers, I calculate a brawl index of 5.45. No, not 5.4444.
The raw data from an AMed lvl 22 controller:
Propel: 39.75
Brawl: 7.29
That leads to the conclusion that the BI is between 5.4571036 and 5.4482522. Repetitions at a few different numbers should narrow the margin further, but it seems close enough to me.
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Using 5.45 (= 196.2/36) as the new BI, I got the following power comparisons:
note: Everything is relative to Propel
Damage Per Second (DPS)
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124.0% _ RING OF FIRE
123.7% _ BOXING
109.5% _ FLURRY
106.6% _ AIR SUPERIORITY
102.6% _ KICK
100.0% _ PROPEL
97.9% _ LEVITATE
96.1% _ JUMPKICK
82.6% _ CRUSH
76.1% _ MESMERIZE
70.9% _ CHAR
70.3% _ BRAWL
67.3% _ PROPEL (OLD)
67.0% _ LIFT
64.4% _ DOMINATE
57.6% _ GRAVITY DIST
15.8% _ CRUSHING FIELD
DPS with Hasten
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129.5% _ RING OF FIRE
123.7% _ BOXING
108.6% _ AIR SUPERIORITY
101.7% _ LEVITATE
100.0% _ PROPEL
98.6% _ KICK
98.0% _ FLURRY
86.7% _ JUMPKICK
80.0% _ MESMERIZE
79.2% _ CHAR
76.7% _ CRUSH
73.9% _ LIFT
72.0% _ DOMINATE
69.2% _ BRAWL
67.3% _ PROPEL (OLD)
58.2% _ GRAVITY DIST
16.1% _ CRUSHING FIELD
Damage Per Endurance (DPE)
---------------------------
124.5% _ FLURRY
109.2% _ JUMPKICK
102.5% _ BOXING
101.4% _ KICK
100.0% _ PROPEL
91.7% _ AIR SUPERIORITY
91.7% _ MESMERIZE
91.7% _ LEVITATE
67.3% _ PROPEL (OLD)
67.0% _ RING OF FIRE
61.5% _ CHAR
61.5% _ GRAVITY DIST
60.9% _ CRUSH
55.9% _ DOMINATE
55.6% _ LIFT
49.5% _ BRAWL
9.2% _ CRUSHING FIELD
Damage Per Animation
---------------------
178.4% _ CHAR
163.5% _ RING OF FIRE
162.2% _ DOMINATE
142.7% _ LIFT
123.9% _ LEVITATE
123.3% _ BOXING
118.9% _ AIR SUPERIORITY
104.9% _ MESMERIZE
100.0% _ PROPEL
83.2% _ KICK
67.3% _ PROPEL (OLD)
65.6% _ FLURRY
64.2% _ BRAWL
61.3% _ GRAVITY DIST
59.5% _ JUMPKICK
57.5% _ CRUSH
17.3% _ CRUSHING FIELD
With the nearly 50% damage increase, Propel has improved significantly, and is comparable with other powers (the closest being Levitate). Its DPS, DPE, and DPA doesn't top Pool attacks like Boxing and Air Superiority, but is much closer than before; furthermore, it has the advantage of range and not taking up a power pool. All in all, Propel has become a viable power choice.
BTW, anyone have the stats (damage, end cost, recharge, and activation) of all the APP attacks?
Thanks Shuyun.
Great Post
Yep, good summary there Shuyun. I ran the numbers from Scrapulous's Grav Damage thread, adding 50% damage to Propel, and came up with results about identical to yours.
Edit - Hehe, I just looked back quick at the numbers I used and saw that the were posted by Shuyun. Thanks again for the info.
Guardian Sirius
Guardian Sc317
Guardian Server
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Why does moving a group matter? Well, if I can clump everyone together I can get better payout for my AoEs, like GDF and FS.
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My problem with this would be that I use my area power (GDF) as my opener because I want to avoid aggro. How does moving a pack of foes help me avoid that? It doesn't. It opens me to aggro. If I move a group for ideal placement into the other group, sure, the disorient will keep the first disoriented a bit. However, I'm worried that the group I didn't disorient will react or that I'll have to be in range of both and have to take aggro from one pack or the other (and apparently the larger pack).
So, if I'm using GDF as my opener, moving them AFTER won't help much. Moving them before seems risky. Either there are enough guys that the aggro I suffer will be scary, or else I'm just making small groups and singularity feeding more efficient. That's something gravity is already good at.
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With my gravity/kin it was always a pain getting fulcrum shift to affect my singularities because they would attack as soon as they were in range of the enemy.
Now I can open with GD, teleport the whole mob near my sings, fulcrum, and destroy. Cant wait to test this out.
I can't stand the new Wormhole. Making it AoE pretty much removes most of the utility from the power. I posted most of my comments about Wormhole Here and Here . No need to cut and paste hehe.
As for the other Gravity changes, they're pretty good. No changes to any activation times, some of which need to be reduced, but the extra damage on Propel is nice, and faster Sings are certainly nice as well.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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I can't stand the new Wormhole. Making it AoE pretty much removes most of the utility from the power. I posted most of my comments about Wormhole Here and Here . No need to cut and paste hehe.
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There might be a need. If we were going to have one thread for all the gravity testing and threads, this one has the most useful general title. Maybe we could put our likes, dislikes, agreements, disagreements, tests, etc in this thread.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
OK! So this thread is part of the Training Room now. Cool!
I don't see it listed but post your Gravity testing here eh?
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
Now that this is an "official" thread, I'm wishing I had made a more useful initial comment... Unfortunately I won't be up for my last respec for a while, and I don't currently have any of the powers that were adjusted. So I'm living vicariously through you guys...
Even without testing it personally, I second all the comments about increasing the disorient duration of wormhole and making the knockback optional. If wormhole is meant to help close the control gap, then it needs to be a bit more "controlling".
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How big is the area of Wormhole?
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Same size as GDF.
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That was NOT my experience. It was barely half of what was covered in GDF from what I saw playing for a few hours last night. THe most I could get in a group was 4, and they were all right next to one another.
I don't see how this closes the control gap at all. Processmeatman and the rest of us have posted numerous times on this power and our testings.
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It's duration might not be spectacular, but that's why you slot things
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PMM and others, found the duration to be 10ish seconds with 1 accuracy and FIVE!!! Disorient Enhancers.
Still a fun power, but in no way does it even remotely touch our control gap issues.
As for being the best Single target mag builder in the game: What glory is there to that? The only things that even needs that much magnitude stacking are Monsters and AVs that compose what percentage of all CoH encounters? Subpar in about 99.99% of all CoH fights, but we are above average in that 0.01% Yay...
<edit>Still grouchy from lack of sleep and Arena server not being up. Removed portions that sounded rude/harsh.