Issue 4 Changes for Gravity - Official Thread
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2005-03-22 14:26 in Developers' Corner
Then apparently all of the old wormhole haters have quit and moved on, have drastically changed their tune, or are now being very hypocritical.
What's really bugged about it is why the modification is applied to Wormhole? I hear only talk about what to do with wormhole, dimension shift or propel. Well, DS is dedicated to Grav, the dev's wanted one powerset with phasing. Propel is a cool power generally liked and i think was part of the vision for Grav too. Wormhole, dismissed at first by almost all, found its niche over time, by almost all.
These 3 powers are equally loved and hated by an unequal part of the controlers. Why not make something of Crushing field to help us out instead? Why not make Crushing field a Sleep? 'You create a gravity field putting pressure over the heads of your opponent, assaulting them with tunnel vision and internal ear disfunction. They will break out if attacked'
That's not true about DS. Dark Defenders have the exact same power, it's called Black Hole. If there are any differences between the two, they're not that big. Force Field also has Detention Field which acts like a single target DS.
IMO, Dimension Shift has no place in the Gravity set. Try as I might, the way the power works just doesn't make sense when you think of what Gravity does. It's for this reason that I eventually scrapped it.
[ QUOTE ]
Then apparently all of the old wormhole haters have quit and moved on, have drastically changed their tune, or are now being very hypocritical.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have no idea. I made Gothika on day 1 of pre-order release, I picked up Wormhole as soon as I hit 26, and I've used it ever since. I have no idea what these other threads you're talking about are or who these other people are; I can only speak for myself. If you look through this thread though, you'll see quite a few different people posting who like Wormhole just the way it is on Live right now.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
You and I seem to have very similar experiences with Wormhole overall. It seems to be our difference in playstyles and secondaries that determine how much utility the old has VS the new. I can definitely see that argument.
I bet you can remember the 8 trillion threads Gravity had before Issue 1 (in particular) and every issue in between that mentioned our "control gap." The ideas that always came up (after Issue one) involved scrapping or changing Propel, DS and wormhole. It's been that way since.
I made the mistake one time of defending Wormhole because I found it very useful. I was about as torn apart as one can possibly get in an online forum. Every use for it I had was met with negativity by several Gravity folks. This was just my experience. I've read other anti-wormhole comments in several other Gravity threads and have spoken up to defend it from time to time.
Anyway, these people seem to have suddenly vanished off the face of the Earth. I never pay attention to names so I can't say if any of them have posted here, but I assure you... the golden light that many of you are shining on the power is new to me.
Well, you can probably tell by my post count that I don't usually spend much time on the boards, so it's no surprise I missed all the Wormhole hate you're talking about. 
And just because I can't resist another shot at DS...
[ QUOTE ]
Dark Defenders have the exact same power, it's called Black Hole.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dark Defenders also have the exact same dislike for their version of Dimension Shift, from what I've seen on the Defender boards. 
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
Hehe... yeah, Intangibility powers aren't very well thought of overall, but there are some that like them. Granted, they're probably the minority.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would I? You're one of I think 2 gravity controllers who've admitted to liking it on the forums. I've never met or even inspected a gravity controller in game who had the power, never mind used it. I don't think I'd be very surprised at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
I use it. I am I the other one? What do I win?
DS is the debt preventer. The offical "TIME-OUT!" power. Default slot for acc, or slot for accuracy and intagibilty. Use as that "uh, things ain't going so well" action.
BTW Doctor_Gravity, you da man.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, you make three now. I'm serious when I say that, there's you, Processed, and one other person whose name I forget who spoke well of a it a while back. Those are all the DS users I can think of. And I literally have never inspected another grav controller, looked at their powers and seen DS listed. And I inspect nearly every grav I run into. Maybe things are very different on other servers, but frankly the posts I see on the forums are consistent with my experiences on Virtue so I'm not very inclined to change my thinking on the subject.
As for wormhole, it has it's fans and it's haters. However, it is worth noting that as a game community matures different abilities that were once dismissed (and ATs for that matter, hi scrappers!) become more accepted as players learn how to make good use of them. This has happened, to one extent or another, with wormhole; I doubt anyone would argue that it's a critical power in the grav set, or that it's not placed too highly in the heirarchy of grav powers, but a great number of players have chosen it and like it. IMO, the ability to drop a mob wherever I choose, rather than right next to me, and for it to be disoriented (even for only 5 seconds) at the end of the port makes it markedly superior to TP foe even with the stupid knockback. Then again, saying it's more powerful than a first tier pool power that isn't hasten doesn't say much.
Those of us who dislike the old wormhole do not have anything to [censored] about, so we don't show up and post. 
I much prefer the new wormhole as a concept (I can understand those who are bummed about losing a power they liked, but someone was probably gonna lose something). I haven't gotten to test it, I will have to do the respec trial if I want to do that (I just did one a week ago too, but took the xp and SO, having no freakin clue we were gonna get some luvin).
If it agros the mobs and they get to shoot you before they are tpd away, that needs to be fixed. If the disorient time + time caught in the tp are too short, that will need to be addressed.
I hate DS too btw, so I am ok with the idea of having both wormholes and ditching DS, but I will never take the glorifed tp foe personally.
For those who worry that wormhole would remove the villians from the battleground, just wormhole them to the spot they are and it becomes just an AoE disorient.
ACTIVATION TIMES STILL TOO LONG. CAN A DEV TELL US WHY, PLEASE? Give me somthing man. What do the devs feel Gravity has over the other sets that require the extra long time to cast? Maybe they have a good reason, I am dying to know what the hell it is.
I would be remiss if I did not include my grandest desire for the Reverse Gravity field. This is too classic a concept IMO to not have in the game. Mechanically it functions just like ice patch, so it should be no big deal to include. (Use lift animation on an area of effect, the small chance they don't fall up, and they can sometimes activate powers between falling - just like ice patch - and it is a classic (did I mention it is classic) for gravity).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
[ QUOTE ]
... the golden light that many of you are shining on the power is new to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno about "a golden light". But, unlike DS and Propel, at least I have kept Wormhole as a power in my build.
(I do admit to having and even occasionally using Crushing Field... please don't take away my Grav Controller Membership Card!)
Ha! I use crushing field quite a bit and am not afraid to say it. CF gets way more use than wormhole does when I play.
Warp_Factor... I know of about 5-6 other high-level Gravity controllers on Infinity that have it, me NOT being one of them. When I say "know" I mean I actually "know" them (in game), they're in my SG or we've teamed quite a bit from time to time. That's not counting the other Gravity 'trollers I run into that have the power. As a matter of fact, I was in a pick-up team with a lvl 33 Grav that had it and swore by it.
I wouldn't base any opinion on what I read on the forums. The ones that hate DS speak up and they do so very loudly, especially here. The ones that DO like and use it never say anything. And why would they?
If you think I'm trying to convince you that DS is a great power, then you've misunderstood my point. I used to have it but scrapped it for concept reasons. Nevermind the fact that it rarely, if ever, saw use. My point was a simple one: Every power has it's fans. No matter which one gets changed, and regardless of your personal feelings about any of them, someone out there isn't going to be happy about it. I don't think that's a hard point to grasp.
I had completely disregarded this thread as it was dead earlier. Nice to see it pick back up when made official.
[ QUOTE ]
As for Gravity's viability as a powerset, you seem to have done okay with it up to level 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please don't assume to know me, my playstyle or my experiences. After about a year into release I would hope that my main/primary would eventually make it to the level cap. But the main reason why I faired so well (1st lvl 40 Grav controller across servers/1st 40 Controller on Virtue/2nd 50 Controller on Virtue) is because of my Force Field secondary. Then again I am not the only one who has to rely so heavily on my secondary. But then again every gravity controller has FF as a secondary right?
While everyone else was having wet dreams clamoring to grab Empaths to do average encounters. At the same time the few of us that realized the power of FFs were stomping mobs 4+ that (and I have a really good SG).
[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel that I need secondary effects on my powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny, because obviously the developers do. Which is why we have Knockback Immunity on our primary holds/roots when 4 out of our 9 powers offer knockback. Such an implementation is ludacris as is anyone defending such things. But by all means lets remove the -recharge, -movement spd and add +recharge +movement speed to Ice Controllers holds/roots. I am sure they will enjoy it.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel like I have a control gap either. Probably just a difference in play style.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are in the minority here. A VERY VERY small minority as evidenced from the 129+ page thread entitled "Gravity: A Serious Discussion"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gravity STILL gets a Pet that is a crutch to make up for the control gap while other controlers get pets that add damage to their already superior control.
[/ QUOTE ] What kind of Singularities are you using? Mine were virtually indestructable, and are in the process of getting a boost to their damage reduction. Sure, other pets do more damage. Other pets die when archvillains hit them, too. Mine don't.
[/ QUOTE ]
What pet am I using? The exact same pets that I said are crutches (which they are). The exact same pet that were added AFTER the Beta community and the post release Gravity Controller community made a rather vocal issue even then about the few control options we had.
Sings are indestructable because they were added as a way (a rather poor one) to give gravity more control. If they are dead, we lose that control. It only follows to make them as resilient as possible. How many controller types have there only other means of control demolished when their pets die?
As for the AV. What are your pets doing to that AV when his purple triangle is up? Definately not holding him- only contributing damage. As for when his defenses are down? I can do that myself with two holds.
Drive through.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But, to repeat the main point, please give us back a single target wormhole.
[/ QUOTE ]
Adding my voice to the chorus. I like Wormhole as it is now, for reasons already well elaborated in this thread. If an AOE disorient needs to be added to the set add it to something else.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. For a small second I was enthused by the "fun factor" of the new wormhole until I found the applications are far more limited than in its current form.
Please return wormhole to it's previous form. (and perhaps move it into DS's spot.
[ QUOTE ]
And I think that the gravity set as a whole, while slightly behind before, is definitely catching up and gaining ground in issue 4. Is it there yet? Maybe not. But it is at least moving in the right direction.
[/ QUOTE ]
They make a precision skill aoe (reducing at least in my opion its tactical uses) and we are "moving in the right direction"? Heck, Dimension Shift a skill you so strongly defend had its recharge increased and its duration decreased and that's "gaining ground"?
At best that's one step forward, one step back.
Personally, I'm disappointed by the Wormhole change.
NOT because it's AoE, but because of the extremely lackluster Disorient time. If you're going to give us an AoE disorient, make it last about as long as the AoE Disorients in other Controller sets. Moving foes is useful, but without a significant disorient it just means more people shooting at me.
As for Dimension Shift - I don't like it as it stands. If I could toggle it on and off, or it was doing some amount of damage while the foes were shifted, or something similar, I might find a reason for it. Right now, I don't see a reason to take it besides PvP - and I'm not really interested in PvP. Heck, even if I was, I could take Detention Field from my secondary to neutralize a tough foe.
The change in Propel is going to be a tough decision on whether to take it. Right now I have Lift six-slotted (1 ACC, 5 DMG) as my best attack. Propel will do more damage...but it has a longer animation and can throw a foe out of range for a followup attack. I'm waiting to hear more feedback on how it functions on test.
For the record, I haven't reached level 32, so I don't have any feedback on the Singularity changes. I can say that trying to level before level 32 is sheer agony, because of the lack of damage. I haven't completed any of my story arcs, because groups usually prefer to do TF's and street sweeping instead of my missions, and soloing them takes FAR too long.
Okay, I've respec'ed in the AoE wormhole on Test and took it out for a spin. Overall, I think it's good in the most basic way: previously I had no intention of taking Wormhole in my main's build on Live; now I am seriously mulling it.
This thread seems to have largely become populated with people who are unhappy about the Wormhole changes. That's fine, but I just want to point something out. I just went back and reskimmed the Developer's Corner/Controller Issues thread from Jan-Feb, where Statesman asked people to comment on what we thought needed to be done for Controllers, particularly Gravity, which he singled out as "weak." A whole bunch of us Gravity types brainstormed a lot of ideas for improving the set.
Read the thread for yourself, it's still up (and locked now). With the notable exception of ProcessedMeatMan, almost all of us called for some kind of change to Wormhole -- shorter animation, no knockback, longer disorient, whatever. We also largely called for another AoE control, although this request was generally formulated as "Replace D-Shift with a useful AoE control." So it looks like they read what we suggested and tried to meet our requests, such as tweaking Propel so that it no longer did sub-Brawl DPS.
What I'm saying is that that would have been a good time for people to come out and say "Wormhole is fine as it is." They didn't hear that except from PMM. The rest of us kind of drowned him out.
"Destiny's powerful hand has made the bed of my future, and it's up to me to lie in it. I am destined to be a superhero. To right wrongs, and to pound two-fisted justice into the hearts of evildoers everywhere." -- The Tick
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UnicyclePeon isn't the only one typing manifestos about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I should probably feel embarassed now. I guess from here on out I'm just repeating myself. I'll try to show some compositional restraint for a day. I can go 1 day. I can. Just watch me. *Nervous Look*
Lewis
[/ QUOTE ]
Accept the things you can not change...
I like reading your posts as they are 1) Non-argumentative 2) Well thought out 3) stay crispy in milk.
Just take Illusion and Mind out of the control equasion. Illusion is really a summoner/damage and mind is for those that want all control with no pets. Illusion and mind are not your typical control sets.
This leaves us our 4 elemental sets. These are the ones that should be balanced against each other. Ice, Fire, Earth, and Gravity. These sets make up the typical controllers they should be similiar and only be slightly different.
Balance is not as simple as just removing propel and making it a disorient.. Gravity would then have a disorient before every other set breaking the balance inbetween the sets. We need to balance the effects as to when everyone else gets them. This makes it fair to all sets. It also keeps balance within the set... a knock up is better then a sleep but ice gets it's knock up before it's sleep.
Powers 1...immobilize all sets
Power two...
Attack in gravity
Holds in ice, earth, fire ((I doubled checked heh and here I thought fire had a disorient for some reason))
This is Gravity's first devation from the norm...
Power 3
Hold((gravity)) or area immob ((ice, fire, earth))
Power 4
Slow ((earth)), perception reducer fire/ice. Single target high damage attack ((propel))
Power five...
Sleep ((earth), Slows ((ice/fire)), area immoblize ((gravity).
power six
Fire/earth disortion. Ice knockup, Gravity phase shift.
Power seven..
area holds.. ((gravity, Fire)), sleep ((ice)), knock up ((earth))
power eight..
Area hold ((ice/earth)), Knock back/up ((fire)), teleport ((gravity))
Power nine.. pets in all sets.
Here is how the typical control set should be set up... it's a logical progression in terms of control. You start with the weakest and move up.
This is Earth Controls progression
Power 1 immobilize
power 2 hold
power 3 area immobilize
power 4..slows
Power 5..sleeps
Power 6...Disorients
power 7...knock up
power 8...area hold
power 9.. Pets
Now each set does have little quirks if they don't have an effect then their unique power should appear there. But if they have a unique power then it should be at that power..
Fire control...
1. single immobilization
2. Single hold
3. area imobilization
4. slow
5. stealth power
6. disorient
7. knock up
8. area hold
9. pets
Ice control..
1. immobilization
2. hold
3 area immobilization
4. slow
5. sleep
6. stealth power
7. knock up
8. Area hold
9. Pet.
Gravity Control
1. Immobilize
2. Hold
3. Area immbolize
4. Slow ((change lift to slow see below))
5. propel
6. disorient ((change dim shift to a disorient. I liked the old dim shift but it just was not typical player friendly))
7. Wormhole
8. Area hold
9. Pet
all the sets need to be rearranged so that control powers come at the same time. I beleive this is why earth is played so little... pet is seen as poor and it's hold comes in late.
Following powers for gravity need the following alterations..
Lift.. change to an area of effect slow. It would be a true slow - recharge and -movement. Gravity as a set is missing a mass slow it's a typical gravity power. Use the same casting animation, then apply the slow effect to the mobs as a visual cue use the visual effect from crush.
Dimension Shift... as others have said change the power to a disorient. Keep the visual effect the same, all animations the same ect... just change from a phase to a disorient. I really liked the phase shifting but many do not like the power. PvP is not a reason to keep the power around if it hinders the PvE experience which a larger percent of your population will enjoy.
Finally wormhole...teleport of mass teleport. *shrugs* I can find a use for either.
Basically this does involve remaking gravity 4 powers... lift, propel, wormhole, and dim shift created our control gap. Almost half of our set.
Many maybe wondering why I used earth as the template... earth actually has the most logical progression of powers in terms of power. All the other sets start out well but then they get jumbled and fall out of sync like in ice a knock up coming before a sleep.
Holds are our best form of control. But not the only form. Before you get your area holds you need to learn how to use your existing powers for when the holds are down. This makes you less dependant upon the area holds themselves.
I do beleive all holds should be ranged goes against a caster having to get into melee combat to use our abilities.
Now there is another option for controllers in general. All controllers should have an honest to goodness ranged attack similiar to propel in their power sets. With this we remove one power and give them that attack.
This change serves two purposes... no set does everything. Sets have an attack and a unique power.
Each set has a power that just doesn't mesh well with the set and is disliked by those controllers that play the set. So remove this one power that doesn't go with the flow of the set and give them a propel like attack in terms of damage.
Ice.. Loses area immobilization. Out of all the ice powers the area immob is the worst as they have no disorient. You could lose the sleep but again with no disorient area immobilization is a death trap.
This leaves them with no area immob, and no area disorient.
They keep the stealth power and gain an attack.
Fire looses bonfire, now I know many were thinking I'd take hot feet, hot feet should be a placeable slow like earth's slow.
I'm taking bonfire because it makes no sense in a fire control's theme. Fire can melt the earth it doesn't knock you back. A volcano/venting gas/explosions ((as I know someone will argue)) is an earth effect.
Fire no sleep, no knock up.. stealth power and an attack.
Gravity doesn't gain a sleep, and has no knockup. Teleport and an attack.
Earth control... loses salt crystals and.. it's disadvantage is it has no unique feature... no teleport, no stealth powers. It's the best in terms of pure control out of the four sets. This is also to make up for the pet which some see as sub par. I've never seen an earth controller so their must be some truth to that in game. or at least perceived truth by the playerbase.
Like I said this attack should be identical to propel in every way/shape/form.
Complete control set rework below...
Earth Control
Power 1 Stone prisoon
power 2 Fossilize
power 3 Stone cages
power 4 Quick sand
Power 5 ((insert new attack))
Power 6 Stalagmites
power 7 Earth Quake
power 8 Volcanic Gasses
power 9 Animate Stone
Fire control...
1. Ring of Fire
2. Char
3. Fire Cages
4. Hot feet ((made placeable like earth's))
5. ((insert attack))
6. Flashfire
7. Smoke
8. Cinders
9. Fire Imps
Ice control..
1. Chillbane
2. Block of Ice
3 ((insert new attack))
4. Shiver
5. Flash Freeze
6. Artic Air
7. Ice Slick
8. Glacier
9. Pet.
Gravity Control
1. Crush
2. Grav disortion
3. Crushing field
4. Lift ((changed to a slow))
5. propel
6. Dim Shift ((changed to disorient))
7. Wormhole
8. GDF
9. Sigularities.
There you go... Fire/ice/Earth and Gravity all balanced against each other. Each set able to do somethings but not everything.
Illusion is your summoning set
Mind is your pure control set.
I HATE the new wormhole. LEAVE IT ALONE. If it changes, I'll add it to the group of powers I don't need so I can increase number of PP and Ancil powers. I don't need another power to scatter mobs, I can do that will repulsion field, repulsion bomb, and force bubble. I have no use for it. I can understand why everyone wanted something to fill in the 'control gap', but grav control is all about massive single target control. It's something I excel that no other controller group matches. Wormhole enhanced my single target powers. the AoE wormhole does not. Grav control about great focused single target control. AoE knockback is not a control power it is a scatter power. The only use I can see is to cover the 15 sec hold invulernability timer during pvp. I don't plan to PvP so now it's useless to me. The ability to take someone and wormhole them away from a fight, that was awesome. if we wormholed them straight up they were out of action for the duration of the fall, plus the rest of the disorient. Having propel do more damage is nice, I haven't used it in the past, I will consider it in my next respec.
If you want to make this like all the rest of the control powers then just have one and let us pick the type of animation we want, fire, ice, grav, electric, storm ...
[ QUOTE ]
With the notable exception of ProcessedMeatMan, almost all of us called for some kind of change to Wormhole -- shorter animation, no knockback, longer disorient, whatever. We also largely called for another AoE control, although this request was generally formulated as "Replace D-Shift with a useful AoE control." So it looks like they read what we suggested and tried to meet our requests, such as tweaking Propel so that it no longer did sub-Brawl DPS.
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference is, improving Wormhole by shortening the activation, taking away the Knockback or lengthening the Disorient leaves the power fundamentally the same. Making it AoE changes the power on a fundamental level. People have been asking for the activation on Gravity Distortion to be shortened as well, that doesn't mean GD is a bad power that needs to be replaced. Without getting into the right or wrong of it, the power that consistantly gets the most requests for a fundamental change has always been Dimension Shift.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
[ QUOTE ]
I bet you can remember the 8 trillion threads Gravity had before Issue 1 (in particular) and every issue in between that mentioned our "control gap." The ideas that always came up (after Issue one) involved scrapping or changing Propel, DS and wormhole. It's been that way since.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if you go look at the 100+ gravity thread from a coupld months ago, you'd see that most of the requests to changed powers are focused on DS and Propel and not so much wormhole anymore. I think a lot less people had discovered the joyful uses of Wormhole with Singularity, etc, at the time you are talking about. In most of the recent uber threads on gravity, we have people defending DS and Propel, its true, but it is pretty uncommon to hear anyone scrapping Wormhole these days, at least in comparison to DS and Propel.
So, I guess I'm horrified they zapped Wormhole, because it is unquestionably and desmonstrably too darn good to mess with. I can understand someone else saying they use DS and are fine with them. I can't fathom it on Propel since, not counting I4 test, its effects and damage are mostly worthless (knocback? so what, the bad guy can run up on you before you can cast it again so you should have held them instead or use Lift. damage? less than brawl over time after the teens with hasten).
So, ok maybe people like DS but why kill Wormhole? The new Wormhole removes what the old one did, so "more enemies" isnt a better tool because its bigger. If I could have BOTH tools that'd be sweet. I just dont get losing the single target WH.
Oh crap. Its been less than 24 hours. Well it wasnt too long this time. And it is the next day anyway.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
[ QUOTE ]
Ha! I use crushing field quite a bit and am not afraid to say it. CF gets way more use than wormhole does when I play
[/ QUOTE ]
You are gravity / rad and there is at least one rockin' combo with CF and the rad set (radiation infection). That's why my 5th incarnation of Gravity is /Rad so that I can have a control option I can use every fight in addition to GDF when its ready. You can really keep the aggro off you because the enemies are whifftastic (I open with RI and then follow with CF).
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
1. DS needs to be made single target. Have a boss bearing down? DS him out while you clean up the minions and Lieuts. FF generator screwing up the works? DS it away for a few moments to kill it's creator. Inv Tank got ya down in PvP, take him out of the fight for a few while ya deal with that damn scrapper... etc.
This would serve to provide nearly the same functionality as the old wormhole while at the same time making DS a worthwhile power pick for nearly any situation, not just the rare occassional situation.
2. Worm Hole should effect multiple targets. Open up a black hole on a street corner and see how well you can contol it from sucking up more than one person/target. You can't. It's a black hole. It sucks up anything close enough to be drawn in. Works for me. But put a larger disorient on it and stop the knockback so that mobs stay more closely together upon arrival. Now you have a working "control" AoE.
3. Propel. Added damage is fine. Still takes TOO LONG to get off, meaning it is still mostly worthless. You could have raised the damage 200% and I still wouldn't take it with that cast time. 200% damage against dead air is still just hitting dead air.Make Propel and AoE cone, so you aren't dependent on a single target being around long enough to get hit, or decrease the activation time by at least 2 seconds. Seriously, I have more important things to be doing with those precious seconds than to stand there working through a long single target attack that still only does ok damage and prolly will never reach the target before someone else kills it.
4. Knockback resistance as a secondary effect. Come on. Can't we have something a little more... worthwhile? We are already the next to last in damage (across the whole game) with the most highly resisted attack type.
5. Review power activation times across the entire primary set. Why are we so slow in comparison to all other controllers?
[ QUOTE ]
With the notable exception of ProcessedMeatMan, almost all of us called for some kind of change to Wormhole -- shorter animation, no knockback, longer disorient, whatever. We also largely called for another AoE control, although this request was generally formulated as "Replace D-Shift with a useful AoE control." So it looks like they read what we suggested and tried to meet our requests, such as tweaking Propel so that it no longer did sub-Brawl DPS.
What I'm saying is that that would have been a good time for people to come out and say "Wormhole is fine as it is." They didn't hear that except from PMM. The rest of us kind of drowned him out.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think people asked to have Wormhole entirely changed in function though. Just because it still ports guys doesnt mean it does the same thing. It doesnt work like it used to at all because its old value was precision and isolation. All gone now. Shorter animation, no knockback, or longer disorient would have been fine for Wormhole. People also asked for an AoE disorient but the vast majority were calling for DS and Propel to have that change.
So, while I like to believe it was accidental on the part of the devs, they happened to shaft the current use of wormhole, plus the Disorient duration is too low to answer the reason we wanted an AoE disorient. While a majority of the people in that thread wanted DS or Propel changed to a disorient or a knock up, they werent changed. At least Propel has better damage now (though I personally am still 100% uninterested in the power for other reasons).
This is totally conjecture, but I don't think we will ever be able to escape Dimension Shift There is a whole enhancement type for phase, and how many Phase powers are in the game? I can only think of 3 but dont know much about the Epic ATs' powers. Dropping Phase from DS would make them have even less powers with it. So, I dont seem them dumping that attribute. Its a shame. And all conjecture on my part. Too bad because an AoE Phase will always be then antithesis of what, to me, control is all about. Any power that interferes with my choices as much as the enemies is off the list. It even interferes with those choices more than a Sleep, so to me DS will always be at best 3rd tier control. They'd have to drop the phase, or make it do big DoT damage while the foes are phased, or something else totally crazy for me to consider it. That's why I rebuilt this 5th time as /Rad. For the control.
Its weird how Rad has 2 AoE holds (even if one is end heavy) and gravity has just 1.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
[ QUOTE ]
The thing that gets me the most about this current "Wormhole Debate" is the fact that, as it stands now, it's a second rate glorified TP foe that rarely ever sees use.
[/ QUOTE ]
It should be clear by now just by looking through this thread that it's not.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue