Issue 4 Changes for Gravity - Official Thread
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2005-03-22 14:26 in Developers' Corner
Well, I do like the new Wormhole, it is something I've wanted for some time. But, I do agree that the loss of the single targe WH is rough. It has a lot of strategic uses, I like it.
I have never liked Dimension Shift. Using it has never made the team happy. I got rid of it long back. So, my suggestion is this, return current WH to it's old status. Replace Dimension Shift with the new AoE wormhole.
I don't like the idea of turning Propel into a cone. Maybe I'm just not looking at it right.
But, I do like the idea of replacing the lift attack Singularities have with propel instead. Even the old propel (as that is what I was looking at when I thought about it). For one thing, it would be very entertaining. I would have prefered this to having propel buffed.
Just my thoughts. Gravity is fun.
Collapsar Grav/Storm Controller Pinnacle
Lady Scorn AR/Energy Blaster Pinnacle
Heavy Man Grav/Rad Controller Pinnacle
Good Imp Fire/Rad Controller Pinnacle
The problem is, the Gravity set has been around for awhile now. Each and every power in the set is liked to some degree by some users of the powersrt. No matter which power is tweaked (and one of them will HAVE to be tweaked), some people are going to complain. With the possible exception of Crush, seeing how most controllers in general don't like their single target immobilize.
Propel - the cone/knockback idea. It's been proposed a thousand times in as many variations. The damage will be decreased significantly, or completely, if it's made an AoE, making our already dismal damage capacity even more so.
Dimension Shift - Believe it or not, quite a few people like this power as is. Changing it or scrapping it will no doubt bring protest just the the new Wormhole has. DS, whether you liek it or not, IS currently Gravity's secondary AoE crowd control power. It's hated by many because it doesn't allow for damage. That, imo, is where our "hole" lies. The other sets have a secondary AoE that allows damage to be inflicted, we do not.
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Dimension Shift is going to be massive in PvP, imo.
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Possibly. I would be more inclined to agree if it were a single target power rather than an AoE. Like Wormhole, I think Dimension Shift would work better as a precision power rather than a sledgehammer.
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There's your solution. Make Dimension Shift a single target power, useful for removing specific targets from combat temporarily via forcing them to phase out. Make Wormhole have a longer disorient duration, with optional knockback (though I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would -want- knockback) with it slotted; with knockup or knockdown when unslotted, as was previously suggested. Problems solved, plenty of extra control to go around, everyone should be happy. Hopefully. Just my two influence.
Debt is temporary, prestige is forever
My Screenies and Videos :: My Toon List
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(though I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would -want- knockback)
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You have a level 50 Illusion controller but can't figure out why knockback can be good? 
A power like wormhole that allows you to position enemies, and then destroys your positioning with knockback it just the silliest thing ever (next to mobs who will stand in a burn patch but flee in terror from Freezing Rain).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Here is a less drastic suggestion that would return the precision control to wormhole but would incorporate the new AOE disorient -
Have the wormhole teleport only ONE enemy, but have the destination area qualify for an AOE disorient.
It could be described as the re-appearance of the 1 foe causes a disorienting thunderclap. That causes everyone in the targeted area to possibly become disoriented. (and we could use a nice big "BAM!" sound effect too 8)
While it would create aggro at the wormhole exit point, it would be much better than wormholing away half or all of the enemies all of a sudden.
Upsen.
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I like this solution pretty well. Admittedly I do really, really like the "coolness factor" of porting away a whole kludge of bad guys in one shot, but in terms of practical function this would be a much better solution. Wormhole would remain a viable pulling tool, reasonably useful for positioning, and still be a cool AE control power.
Of course, the disorient duration would still need to be jacked up to make it worthwhile, 9 seconds out of a 5 slotted power is just sad and silly.
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Each and every power in the set is liked to some degree by some users of the powersrt.
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Still, they changed the one interesting and effective power Gravity has. I mean, come on! I just think they gave gravity a nuke and are married to it. Also, there are so few powers that phase things that they are married to that one too. LOTS of people use wormhole now, the current one, not the test one.
Ugh.
I'm going to work yet ANOTHER controller to 32 and I'm still not going to have my control gap filled in my primary am I? I'm glad I made this 5th incarnation of Ms. Jupiter so that at level 38 I can get a second hold (Radiation/EM Pulse). None of my other secondaries had any real backup control.
That brings up another point. Unless you have /Rad or /Storm, you dont have any powers to combo with Crushing Field. Do ya like retaliation strikes? Sure if you've got a tanker and a fire blaster on your team, its not totally useless. I mean, it doesn't seem like an AoE Immob used on the short duration of the new Wormhole would be significant.
Ah well I stayed up too late reading comic book spoilers. Bedtime.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
and LOTS of people will use and like the new wormhole. Me being one of them.
Where do you get this "nuke" impression? And where do you get the impression they're married to it? Sure they advertised it as "another form of AoE control," but they weren't wrong. It IS AoE and it IS control. The debate remains exactly how much it does or doesn't deserve that title.... and whether the Devs will hear our pleas and tweak it up a notch.
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and LOTS of people will use and like the new wormhole. Me being one of them.
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Sure, my point is why get rid of a great power for a different (possibly) great power when there are at least 2 other clearly inferior powers to change. It's like saying "lots of people like crush, glad they dumped singularity for the new fear cone" only not as drastic. Why nix the GOOD power. I loved wormhole.
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Where do you get this "nuke" impression? And where do you get the impression they're married to it?
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Because its coming up on April and Propel has been the worst power ever in any set since release. Or on the short list anyway. But its a nuke! It makes a big boom! Why nudge the power out of total uselessness to passable usefulness NOW when they could replace it with something the set needs?
I just can't fathom hanging onto Propel and DS and ditching the most unique power gravity has (current Wormhole)? I just don't get it. I admit the impression is based purely on conjecture, but I can't fathom hanging onto propel at this stage as a damage power. Its gone for so long, why not do something good with the slot?
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It IS AoE and it IS control. The debate remains exactly how much it does or doesn't deserve that title.... and whether the Devs will hear our pleas and tweak it up a notch.
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Hey if they tweak up the new wormhole to where it works like Flashfires (or close) on the disorient duration, that'd rule, but they can't. The test server wormhole has an AoE port AND an AoE disorient and it'd be overpowered if it did both with full power. Now, making the ported target just 1 guy and the destination have the disorient (but not disorient the ported foe) would let you use the power both ways but even that would require the disorient time be less.
So I dont see how they can tweak it up a notch, not to the point that I can rely on a constant disorient like other controller powers (at least constant on one set of guys, misses notwithstanding). So, while it can be used for things, I lost a precision tool I loved and didn't get the bread and butter control that most gravity controllers have been wanting since way way before that 3 billion page gravity thread (ok, more like 100 pages).
So, I dont see how they can cram too much into one power. It would be too good. That's why I dont see why they didnt take a year, an entire YEAR, of Propel and DS sitting there rotting and just say "heck with it, lets make one of them an AoE disorient". Then at least if I wanted uber teleporting and uber disorienting I'd have to take both and max slot both. I'll admit I'm crazy irrational about it at this point and abandoned gravity for a better (read: any other) control set, but I wanted gravity to be a contender.
Now, I know some people like Dimension Shift. Almost everybody loves the animation on Propel. However, a disorient like Flash Fires, even a cone (meaning you have to get close) disorient would be as much of a bacon saver as DS, and would function for divide and conquer too. Yes, people have learned to cope with DS or view it as a unique tool that can be used, but any power can be used. I mean they all "do stuff" when you click them but I dont see the reason for not upgrading DS to a cone disorient. It would be superior in almost every context (I cant think of one it wouldnt be but I'm sure there are, I've avoided DS after trying it several times).
I feel like someone took away my bionic arm and gave me a bionic leg when I needed an Iron Lung. Know what I mean?
Ah I'm sure I'm just irritating people but I just dont fathom any of this. I'm just too wrapped up in it. Back to the Ice Tanker (just to clear my head) maybe, after I get Ms. J to 26 and try it some. Then I can come back to my gravity controller with some distance and calm.
And really, I'm not offended at your differing opinion, I'm just feeling like I'm so close to something good ... anyway about to ramble again. I do respect other people's opinions, I'm just burned out right now.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Sure, my point is why get rid of a great power for a different (possibly) great power when there are at least 2 other clearly inferior powers to change.
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Clearly inferior? To who? As far as "pure" AoE control goes, Dimension Shift is far superior to both versions of Wormhole. All this statement does is support the notion that no matter which power the Devs decide to manipulate, there will always be a group that's decidely not in favor of it.
To fix the control gap you must first understand where and how the gap lies in the set. Every control set but controllers have at least 3 effects to use inbetween recharging of the area hold.
Effects such as ... multiple pets, sleeps, confuse, knock up, imob/disorient, fear.
We have 4 single target effects. 2 of which are attack powers.
we have 4 area effects.. 3 of which can not fill the gap inbetween our area hold currently.
To close the cap on other controllers we need 2 effects that will take the place of our hold while it recharges. Teleport/sig are our third effect.
1 aoe disorient that mimics crushing field in everyway only is a disorient rather then an immbolization. This with crushing field fills the typical immob/disorient. Propel is the most logical canidate for this change.
and 1 other area control power. Phase shift was it but the power is hated by many and loved by few. I loved the power as it was personally... the change ruined the power as anything but an oh crap power in a pve setting.
To make the power 'useful' Change Dim Shift to the following... Area slow(movement and recharge)), -end recovery. The power should recharge as fast and last as long as the old version of dim shift. ((about half the recharge of GDF)) The power doesn't drain end but stacked can reduce end recovery... excepts slows range, end reducers, recharge, accuracy and end recovery enhancements.
Keep the visual effect the same just change the effect of the power.
Description of the new Dim Shift...
You partially phase your targets out of reality. This attack slows the movements and reaction times of all effected foes and reduces their ability to recover endurance for a period of time.
Effect... area of effect, slow movement/recharge, - end recharge.
Dim shift is now very useful, meshes well with kinetics and end draining powers in general. Offers a form of control no other controller has... endurance control. Keeps in line with gravity as a theme.
Gravity after these changed looks as follows...
3 single target attacks. 1 hold, 1 immob, 1 attack
4 area powers... 1 imob, 1 disorient, 1 teleport, 1 slow/end control, 1 hold.
1 pet ((controlling))
while our hold refreshes we have immobilization/disorient and an end draining/slow power. This will allow us to actually control just about as well as other controllers. We don't have sleeps, or knock ups but in their place we get end reduction and a teleport power.
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Clearly inferior? To who? As far as "pure" AoE control goes, Dimension Shift is far superior to both versions of Wormhole. All this statement does is support the notion that no matter which power the Devs decide to manipulate, there will always be a group that's decidely not in favor of it.
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This is why I think the changes to Wormhole should be less drastic. I know the effect of tossing a bunch of foes into a wormhole at once is rather interesting, but it does change the entire function it was originally designed to do. Move a single target to a point you want to move it to, with a knockback effect when they bounce out the other end.
If they added the disorient to the exit phase of the wormhole, even keeping the whole knockback thing, it would preserve the old functionality of the power, while adding a new dimension to it, instead of destroying the old functionality. The knockback could be centered on the wormhole exit point, so you can choose where to drop your wormhole target - to choose the direction of knockback.
Using another example, they could turn Propel into a AOE disorient too, by adding a AoE disorient hit to the target area, when the Propel missile hits it's target. It wouldn't change the use of the power too drastically, so people using it for damage can continue using it to damage the single target, while others could find new functionality in using it as an AoE disorient.
Upsen.
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(though I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would -want- knockback)
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You have a level 50 Illusion controller but can't figure out why knockback can be good?
A power like wormhole that allows you to position enemies, and then destroys your positioning with knockback it just the silliest thing ever (next to mobs who will stand in a burn patch but flee in terror from Freezing Rain).
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Umm, I'm pretty sure he was saying he couldn't understand why anyone would want knockback on Wormhole specifically, a concept you seem to be in agreement with. Unless you're smiley meant something other than what I took it for...
I did some solo'ing using a lot of wormhole power. The longer recharge is definitely a pain but, if I can pull in a couple of bad guys at once, it takes longer for my storm cloud and singularities to chew them up. The radius does NOT appear to be as big as GDF at all. More like a ten or fifteen foot radius.
Regarding use of Wormhole against the DE emminators, it should still be fine. I haven't tried it to be sure but I would think any DE that went along with a little pet would simply run back to the battle as soon as they could.
I'm quite worried about agro, though. It seems like we get a chance to agro the whole group for each enemy we hit. Now we are hitting more enemies per use. Won't that increse the chances of bringing the whole group down on us? Hard to test this solo, unfortunately.
Now about these Singularities.... they resist MORE damage now? Jeeesh, the things are already hard to kill. I could literally plop one in the path of a big Rularuu patrol and expect it to survive a full minute.
Propel: anything is good!
Maybe I should have used this smiley. 
But the raspberry thing was too funny for me to resist.
I was agreeing with him (unless he did mean KB in general, but I figured he just meant on wormhole as well), but thought the anti-KB stance was funny coming from an illusion controller.
I sure would have preferred a Reverse Gravity type power that gave knockup (and would have been similiar in effect to icepatch), but I have always loved any game or story with the upside down room/reverse gravity effect.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Clearly inferior? To who? As far as "pure" AoE control goes, Dimension Shift is far superior to both versions of Wormhole.
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Dimension Shift is inferior to other third tier control powers (Sleeps) but qualifies as one. After that, other controllers (not counting Illusion) get 2 other primary forms of control, we get one. Everything else in the set is parlor tricks. They needed to address the issue of more control, not exchanging one parlor trick for another one.
Like another poster implied, if everybody has their favorite power and how dare we suggest changes, then the changes to Wormhole were too drastic. Also, by that logic, they should never change anything, ever. I feel they should have axed an inferior power (DS, propel) instead of a superior one (current wormhole).
These powers are inferior not because they have more or less control than this or that but because they are bad from the "why would I ever take this power" or "why would I ever spend enhancement slots in this" perspective.
To me, killing the old wormhole to get something new is like ... killing Bonfire to get Quicksand when you could have axed Hotfeet.
Anyway, if DS were replaced by a disorient, you could still use it as a panic button, as a divide-and conquer, but it would not be slow, would not interfere with offense, and would become the other primary control gravity lacks. Putting a weak disorient on a teleport but losing the precision doesn't solve anything I needed. How about you? Yeah its a cool power, but why did we lose a good one? Wormhole was tactically awesome AND good fun and precise, and worth every slot in it. The new one MAY be also, but why lose the old one?
I would rather have a teleport seperate from a disorient anyway, so that I could pump up the effect I want. When combining 2 awesome attributes in one power, neither of the sub attributes can be too good or it becomes too good of a power. I just want the "control" somewhere else.
Oh well, I guess before long I'll be in therapy meetings with people who miss the days when it was nice to have a team teleport in the primary. 
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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The radius does NOT appear to be as big as GDF at all. More like a ten or fifteen foot radius.
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Regarding use of Wormhole against the DE emminators, it should still be fine. I haven't tried it to be sure but I would think any DE that went along with a little pet would simply run back to the battle as soon as they could.
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I need to push my new Grav to 26 to test it. Darnit. Still, splitting out foes to somewhere else and letting them run rampant isn't my idea of control. So what if they run back? Then you've got guys you aren't controlling or that are away from your kill zone. Also, 10 or 15 feet seems like it would snag a lot of guys. Not what I want for that function (removing emanators and FF generators). Also, you wont be able to pull bosses without bringing some of the crowd. They are usually standing all together.
Oh well, will have to push hard on Saturday. I agreed to a table-top RPG tonight so can't play. Wish I could play and test instead.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Regarding use of Wormhole against the DE emminators, it should still be fine. I haven't tried it to be sure but I would think any DE that went along with a little pet would simply run back to the battle as soon as they could.
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That's not really the point, though. The idea of using Wormhole on the eminators was to remove the Fungi/Cairn/Quartz/Tree of Life and just that object, leaving the enemies that you want to kill in a more vulnerable position.
Having half a dozen angry DE split from the rest of the group doesn't solve the problem, it just creates a seperate group you'd need to control, on top of anything you missed or any adds that come into the battle.
Faced with that kind of choice with the new Wormhole, I'd much rather just target the eminator and hit Propel until it goes down. Wormhole for me was a way of debuffing a group via division. Remove parts of the group that would be a problem (either because those parts can't be safely controlled once GDF wears off, or because they have nasty effects like heals or endurance drains) and the entire group of enemies suffer for it when you finally charge in. Taking the whole group with that one target just seems to defeat the object of using the power in the first place.
On another note, it would be fun to have a /dev blaster make a tripmine field and then wormhole the entire mob on top of the tripmines.
Seems like a good idea to me and I am sure you could get a /dev blaster to team with you doing that. Honestly how often to /dev blasters get to use their tripmines in groups?
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Clearly inferior? To who? As far as "pure" AoE control goes, Dimension Shift is far superior to both versions of Wormhole. All this statement does is support the notion that no matter which power the Devs decide to manipulate, there will always be a group that's decidely not in favor of it.
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Dimension Shift if only far superior on paper. In practice, in real groups, it's just an awful power. I had DS for months before finally respeccing out of it and I can count the number of times on one hand when a group didn't hate when I tried to use it. In my experience, groups loathe Dimension Shift, and for that reason it's an inferior power.
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Regarding use of Wormhole against the DE emminators, it should still be fine. I haven't tried it to be sure but I would think any DE that went along with a little pet would simply run back to the battle as soon as they could.
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The problem is the new Wormhole will be scattering a number of enemies around, which is the opposite of control. Right now if I Wormhole an emminator away, the group can safely igonore it. When I tried it with the new Wormhole, it picks up other DE as well. Some run back, some stand off and use ranged attacks. There's DE scattered all over and are much more difficult to control. Groups already tend to not like Knockback much, this is Knockback to the Nth degree.
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I'm quite worried about agro, though. It seems like we get a chance to agro the whole group for each enemy we hit. Now we are hitting more enemies per use. Won't that increse the chances of bringing the whole group down on us? Hard to test this solo, unfortunately.
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One of the quirks of Wormhole is the target becomes aware of you the moment you activate the power. The target isn't actually 'ported until the end of the activation however, so there's a 3 second gap where the target will attack you. This quirk is still present in the new Wormhole, which is why you're seeing reports of Grav Controllers getting hit with alpha strikes. While this quirk generally isn't deadly against a single target, mulit target Wormholing will get you killed real fast.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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On another note, it would be fun to have a /dev blaster make a tripmine field and then wormhole the entire mob on top of the tripmines.
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This is a viable tactic, and considering that we have 2 fulltime /dev blasters in the SG that team up regularly, as well as a Fire/Fire tanker, an Axe/Fire tanker, an Invuln/Fire tanker, an Earth/Earth tanker.. AoEs are the bread and butter of our fighting style. Being able to not only GDF a group but then Port them on the Flypaper of death is incredible. I'm excited about the new Wormhole.. I just haven't run the numbers to tweak it to order. What I do know is that the single target was good for emanators and such, but porting a +4 boss away from the crowd was nigh impossble.
Also, please note that the biggest advocate against wormhole had a gravity controller but deleted her. For those that currently play a gravi/* controller have, for the most part, found good application for it. I for one think that it is a good alpha strike as well as an excellent tool for herding (which, coincidentally, also involves packing large groups against fences and in corners)
But still there is nothing compelling for me to get DS just yet. I don't see the need to have a large group taken out of the fight, but if i wanted detention field, i could do that with singles.
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Also, please note that the biggest advocate against wormhole had a gravity controller but deleted her. For those that currently play a gravi/* controller have, for the most part, found good application for it. I for one think that it is a good alpha strike as well as an excellent tool for herding (which, coincidentally, also involves packing large groups against fences and in corners)
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But still there is nothing compelling for me to get DS just yet. I don't see the need to have a large group taken out of the fight, but if i wanted detention field, i could do that with singles.
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Maybe I'm vain but I'm assuming you mean me. I see the applications for Wormhole (new) but I lament the loss of the old. If DS is so bad, why not axe that power instead? That is the point I'm shooting for.
And for the record, I've deleted FOUR gravity controllers, two I played into the late teens, and 2 I played into the mid 20s. I deleted FOUR of them because I love gravity but kept struggling with which secondary I needed to get by with the lesser control Gravity has. I finally settled for /Rad on my FIFTH incarnation, which I'm working on now, and who is level 24. One day, whether I like the toolkit powers or not, I'll have the second hold from EM Pulse. Now I know that whatever else happens, I'll be able to cover my own bases. I'm still interested in improving gravity overall though.
Also, the implication that I can't see the uses of the new wormhole is misplaced. I'm no uber player or anything. However, I have played 2 other controllers to 32 and 37, I have played 2 other non-grav controllers to the 20s, several other characters to decent levels, and I have played and levelled MANY characters in every AT, generally into the high 20s.
I also have basic reading comprehension.
Therefore, I do indeed see the uses of the new wormhole. I can appreciate the kill zone tactics and group placement possibilities. However, I'm lamenting the fact that they axed a perfectly good wormhole when they could have axed a perfectly sub-blah Dimension Shift.
Thanks,
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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This is a viable tactic, and considering that we have 2 fulltime /dev blasters in the SG that team up regularly, as well as a Fire/Fire tanker, an Axe/Fire tanker, an Invuln/Fire tanker, an Earth/Earth tanker.. AoEs are the bread and butter of our fighting style. Being able to not only GDF a group but then Port them on the Flypaper of death is incredible. I'm excited about the new Wormhole.. I just haven't run the numbers to tweak it to order. What I do know is that the single target was good for emanators and such, but porting a +4 boss away from the crowd was nigh impossble.
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So won't those +4 bosses still be left behind when you try to port the group? The tactic you list above is an interesting one, but it goes against the entire point of the Wormhole change.
<ul type="square">[*]Gravity Control/Wormhole is now an AoE (Wormhole applied a Disorient, so now Gravity Control has another AoE Control power). Recharge Time was increased to compensate.[/list]Note that the intent of the change is to give Gravity Control 'another AoE Control power'. Using GDF first, then using area Wormhole to moving things around is a nice trick, but doesn't match the intent of the change.
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Also, please note that the biggest advocate against wormhole had a gravity controller but deleted her. For those that currently play a gravi/* controller have, for the most part, found good application for it. I for one think that it is a good alpha strike as well as an excellent tool for herding (which, coincidentally, also involves packing large groups against fences and in corners)
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I'm really not sure what you mean here. Biggest advocate against which Wormhole? The new or the old? There are a lot of us who very much use and like the current Wormhole and don't want it to change, especially when the result of the change isn't a power that actually has much more control, but one that would just be used for herding.
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Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
hello, i just wanted to add my opinion, i have just went through the pain of levling up a lvl 34 grav control.
i really hope that wormhole is not given an aoe effect. i think the only improvement that should be added to the power is increase the disorient time it causes, since it is very short right now.
if you make wormhole an aoe power, it will simply turn into another random, unpredictable hard to use power.
why? because there will never be any idea as to the enemies it pulls away, since there will always be a to hit roll for each enemy, and there is no way to clearly see which enemies it is targettting.
you might pull, one, two, three, who knows.
it will annoy teammates if used in battle, an enemy they were attacking might be pulled away, making it just like dimension shift.
ive often used wormhole in battle to remove a single foe that is causing problems, or simply want to disorient.
by making it an aoe power, you take the control out of wormhole. it will now be like dimension shift, you will never be able to predict what it will do.
i really like how you can target single foes, its very useful as it is.
perhaps to make the power useful, you could do this, have the travel time for the wormhole, in that the enemy spends five or whatever seconds travelling down the wormhole till it appears in the spot you choose.
now that would put control back into wormhole. you chould select a foe that would be taken completly out of battle for a short period time, like detention field, but specifically for gravity.
please, please dont make wormhole an aoe power
I haven't tested the new wormhole but have read every post in this thread. For those who have tested and provided feedback...Thanks!
I too will lament the loss of the current Wormhole if the current change on test goes live. I find the single target Wormhole to be very useful.
The suggestions to change DS to something else seems to be the most logical and best choice. Here's a whacky idea I just came up with for such a change...
Make DS an AOE disorient described as shifting the target's synapses causing them to be so disoriented so they shoot randomly. Halve their attack rate while disoriented and have who they attack be random including both friends and foes. The main risk being that they would attack and aggro a second group near the fray.
Regarding Propel: The cool factor of this power has been way to high for me to ever consider speccing out of it. Glad to see the damage was increased.
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Well, now we have a whole lot MORE control over position, if we just take some time to figure out how to use it. Now we can affect the position of entire GROUPS.
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I think the power to move groups is neat. However, it is only as good at combining groups for one hold for as often as you can use your one and only real hold. I hated my gravity character because I couldnt do a group hold every fight at the rate groups move through stuff, and if a huge add came along, I didnt have a backup hold (by this I mean a group friendly hold, not a game-halting dimension shift).
SO my biggest gripe with the new wormhole is that they traded one neat placement tool with another but the loss of the original is too much. Look at the horrible powers (Dimension Shift, Propel) they could have changed instead so that we didnt have to lose the old functionality. Heck, while useful for the ability to juggle bosses with Lift, I'd still rather lose that than the live version of wormhole because isolating a boss (WITHOUT his followers) is way better than juggling a boss to me.
So, the problem is they ripped out one good tool and replaced it with another good tool. Why the major loss? And how does this fill my control gap? It will be nice for opening a fight if you also have GDF available, I'll grant ya that. Nice for engineered kill zones. But I wanted bread and butter control available all the time (like Flash Fires and Stalagmites) with a GDF type hold my backup pocket power.
Lots of other sets have other control options, and GOOD ones, other than Immob, Aoe Immob, Hold, Aoe Hold, and AoE Disorient. Fire has Bonfire and Smoke. I'll admit Hot feet is a wash. These are "decent" optional options but fire has the ultimate control, damage. Ice has crazy stacking and self-stacking slows, a crazy Aoe Knockback, a sleep. Earth has all that AND a disorient.
For Gravity to step up with the others it has to have round-the-clock control like a disorient AND it needs something cool like the old wormhole, AND the new wormhole.
If I had my personal wish, I'd change Gravity like so:
1) Propel: becomes an Aoe Disorient Cone (keep the same animation; conceptually, the object hitting the enemies is the explanation for the disorient; get rid of damage)
2) Dimension Shift: becomes the single target Port (current Wormhole)
3) Wormhole: becomes the new test server AoE wormhole (as-is)
The above would be some real control and some real versatility. Maybe even enough to justify the horrible 3+ second activation times but I'm not sure.
The extra control options we really need would all be there. Anybody who lilked Dimension Shift as it is for a divide and conquer (or a panic button) would get much more mileage out of the new AoE wormhole and my proposed propel disorient than they ever got from Dimension Shift. As for the loss of damage from propel in my suggestion, EDIT: it would be worth it. Gravity isn't a damage set, the original Propel seems like a misguided afterthought (the animation was inspired), and I think Illusion should have the distinction of the only nuke (damage is its thing).
Lewis
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