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Why isnt your wife using flash?
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mainly because the attack pattern goes > wait for boss to be confused, drop PA, run in, flash. she gets very little aggro that way, and if flash misses something, the PA is there to distract the baddies.
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I just respecced out of ST not because it was useless but because I just didnt have room in my build for a power that would see such little use.
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I've never said it's "useless." It's just that the things you can use it for are so marginal I can never see any reason to cast it.
I'm curious how people avoid the counterstrike when using ST as an "Oh [censored]" Power. IMX, if the aggro you generate from it wasn't enough to kill you, it wasn't an "oh [censored]" situation, it was just a "difficult" situation.
So how do you do it?
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So why the double standard for ST? Why is it interior to all other fear powers, which provide equal or greater protection through cower/root? If the devs would come out and say "thats too powerful", then I could at least accept it.
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I think geko has said that making ST an instant lockdown power is too powerful, in the opinion of the devs, by virtue of changing it from when it practically was one.
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No, you are inferring that from him making it in its current and proopsed bad forms. Then again, blizzard is "the best" ae damage power in the game. Even though evidence doesnt support it as such.
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I'm not, nor did I ever, claim that ST is better than or the equal to FS or other fear powers. You're assuming that the devs were too stupid to give us better fear powers. It is equally likely simply they don't want us to have them, which is why they are tweaking ST so much.
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No, I'm assuming they dont know whats useful, and whats not. Hence annoying changes to stuff like freezing rain breaking taunt, when superior debuffs dont. If ST isnt inteded to be a decent lock down power, just ditch it. An AE run power, as they themselves indicated by changing fear, isnt viewed as useful by the majority of the coh fanbase.
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In any event, as I said before, there is a difference between stating the power is broken, and stating that other powers are better. The question is not whether another hypothetical power would be better - thats a question for the suggestion box. The question is does ST provide sufficient benefit that its worth taking over taking nothing at all - on average across all Illusion controllers. Individual controllers will of course probably disagree on this point.
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IMO, its not worth taking. And dont say nothing at all. its not like if you pass ST, you dont get another power in its place. IMO, and the majority of CoH players (as evidenced by datamining, and the decision to change fear in the first place), fear scatter is counterproductive. Hell, it even messes up ST's functioning, if some mobs are out of the fear, and not being re-feared when it activates again. I have yet to see one convincing example of why its useful over how every other fear power works. I see a lot of people trying to make do with a sub par power, and justify it so they dont feel foolish for taking it. Quite simply, the devs can make it something good, and should.
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So when you tell me that other fear powers would be better, that isn't especially meaningful to me, because I'm not approaching ST from the perspective of "am I getting what I deserve, oh lookie at what they have over there." There is no double standard, there is just the one standard of judging the power on its own, without comparisons to the other fear powers.
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I disagree. Remember when the disorients were removed from the level 32 blaster booms? What if after they changed it, they went back, and instead tacked on a self immobilize and a chance to hit yourself with the blast Nova. Thats how I feel about ST. They had it right, then borked it up in comparison to other fear powers, for seemingly little reason. What the other guy gets DOES bear mentioning, specifically because they are fear powers, and this fear power isnt working like the others.
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Look at the situation with knockback, where so many people think it is totally worthless, and so many other people think its invaluable. There are quite a lot of things in the game that a lot of people think is just plain self-evident, except it aint.
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Some people like knocking stuff around, no matter if kd would be better. Unfortunately, in general, KB vs KD offers very little advantage, and can potentially create a problems, particularly for tankers/scrappers (hence their removal/change) and IMO for controllers (holds/debuffs work better if everything is close). For a blaster, KB can provide valuable defense. Now, if mobs buffed each other, or if there was a good reason to throw things around more, Id be all about scatter. But until then, scatter is pretty much counter productive. Herding/ae is still, unfortunately, the fastest way to level. I've always been a firm believer in good tradeoffs in playstyles, and right now, the trade is pretty poor for scattering. Id actually PREFER they design mobs and content geared to adding value towards both clumping and spreading, but until then, I'm pretty firmly against scattering.
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Gee maybe flash was already used and recharging?
As for spec terror, It has saved my team on a few occasions. But I still wanted a change. This change they are proposing now that I think about it more just might make it lots worse heh (hard to imagine). I am not a fan of scatter simply because my character already creates an enormous amount of scatter and any more is just not needed heh. However as an oh crap button it did do that job semi ok, except that half of them run far enough away and pull out a gun hehe.
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Thank you for proving how inferior it is to every other fear power. Would anyone else care to offer anecdotal evidence to support my position?
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The irony is that I used the power more on the respec trial (that I was using to get rid of ST) then I had used it in about 10 lvls heh.
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Again, it performs this power less sucessfully than fearsome stare, terrify, or the presence pool fears.
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I think geko has said that making ST an instant lockdown power is too powerful, in the opinion of the devs, by virtue of changing it from when it practically was one.
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Let's not go putting words into the mouths of the developers. If Geko were to say "Yes, we felt the way Spectral Terror was behaving when Issue 3 was overpowered", that'd be one thing, but that never happened.
Maybe Geko felt the intent of ST was to have foes run, and had nothing to do with how powerful a tool it was?
I mean, I remember back when ST was on test, MizBHaven and I were trying to convince people it was worth taking at all. We had to give people tactics because most people were saying "The fact that they shoot every 7.5 seconds makes this power useless!" Now people are saying it was overpowered and the Devs feel this way too. Come on.
Until a red name says, "yes, We feel that ST having a cower effect only, with no scatter, is overpowered" I'm going to fight for a power that doesn't negate my secondary.
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So true! However, Tainted_Soul, now I am wondering if we should have kept our mouths shut hahaha. (I'm kidding)
I do not like the scattering of mobs. The ONLY reason I took the power after I3 was released was because it was working as a lock down with a few trying to pop shot you here and there. I spent a good bit of time on Test working with the power BEFORE incorporating it into my build because I had not planned on taking it at all and wanted to make absolutely sure it was going to work in a way that would benefit me and my team.
Had at any point the devs pointed out during the time it was on Test that it was overpowered and NOT going to be kept that way then, I would not have taken the power. Wasted respec! I have a problem with scattering mobs in every direction. There are so few situations I would even need to use a "scatter" power that I just have no use for one that does it; hence the reason I did not take it until the changes were brought about.
The changes that are being made are not what I would like to see but I will be testing it just as I did before I3 was released to see if I can work with it or not. If not I will be dropping the power all together.
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Gee maybe flash was already used and recharging?
As for spec terror, It has saved my team on a few occasions. But I still wanted a change. This change they are proposing now that I think about it more just might make it lots worse heh (hard to imagine). I am not a fan of scatter simply because my character already creates an enormous amount of scatter and any more is just not needed heh. However as an oh crap button it did do that job semi ok, except that half of them run far enough away and pull out a gun hehe.
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Thank you for proving how inferior it is to every other fear power. Would anyone else care to offer anecdotal evidence to support my position?
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The irony is that I used the power more on the respec trial (that I was using to get rid of ST) then I had used it in about 10 lvls heh.
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Again, it performs this power less sucessfully than fearsome stare, terrify, or the presence pool fears.
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Hehe I never said it was more useful then any of the other fears. Actually I agree with you. I was simply stating my opinion on the power as it is on live server. Try quoting someone that is arguing againest your point...
MindMaster is correct in what he has stated. A power that scatters the enemies is a bad power. We want them all bunched up for many many reasons but the bottom line is scattered Mobs take longer to arrest. (I too think knockback is a disadvantage except for that solo blaster, knockdown and Knockup are so far superior to knockback it's almost a joke trying to compare them).
The reason very few Illusion controllers took the original ST was that it caused the enemy to scatter. If the devs give it scatter via runners, illusion controllers will avoid taking it and respec out of it (the few unlucky ones like myself who thought they were actually going to give us a useful power).
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Gee maybe flash was already used and recharging?
As for spec terror, It has saved my team on a few occasions. But I still wanted a change. This change they are proposing now that I think about it more just might make it lots worse heh (hard to imagine). I am not a fan of scatter simply because my character already creates an enormous amount of scatter and any more is just not needed heh. However as an oh crap button it did do that job semi ok, except that half of them run far enough away and pull out a gun hehe.
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Thank you for proving how inferior it is to every other fear power. Would anyone else care to offer anecdotal evidence to support my position?
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The irony is that I used the power more on the respec trial (that I was using to get rid of ST) then I had used it in about 10 lvls heh.
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Again, it performs this power less sucessfully than fearsome stare, terrify, or the presence pool fears.
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Hehe I never said it was more useful then any of the other fears. Actually I agree with you. I was simply stating my opinion on the power as it is on live server. Try quoting someone that is arguing againest your point...
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Gotcha, sorry for the confusion.
OK...guys are asking for what advantages ST has over other fear powers, and one guy asked how to avoid the alpha strike after casting it:
Unlike ALL the other fear-based powers, it is effectively a persistant AREA OF EFFECT power. This means that, to avoid alphas, you simply cast it AROUND A CORNER. Got that? you and your phantoms are standing around a corner, and you toss ST right into the middle of the mobs. Then you and your pets/group simply pick off anything that runs your way.
I'm all for souping it up a bit...and how about making it ATTACKABLE? make it more powerful, but let the mobs shoot at IT instead of the caster, and I'm sure lots of the complaining will stop. But whatever you do, DON'T make it mobile. Bad enough that Phantom Army and Phantasms ignore mobs 2 feet behind em and make a beeline for me, training me with agroed mobs...
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
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This means that, to avoid alphas, you simply cast it AROUND A CORNER.
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I was asking about avoiding the alpha strike, using it as an Oh [censored] power, not in general. There's tons of ways to avoid it or minimize it as a starting power, where I think it has at least some uses. I can't see using it as an Oh [censored] power, tho.
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This means that, to avoid alphas, you simply cast it AROUND A CORNER.
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I was asking about avoiding the alpha strike, using it as an Oh [censored] power, not in general. There's tons of ways to avoid it or minimize it as a starting power, where I think it has at least some uses. I can't see using it as an Oh [censored] power, tho.
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Mostly agree on that...its main use in my playstyle is as an opener on large groups of +2 to +3 mobs to reduce them to bitesize chunks. Again, from around a corner, which is INCREDIBLY useful...I don't see these other fear powers being useful in that situation at all.
Currently, its a decent AOE hold on minions, and I really don't mind the scatter when I'm soloing. The only time I use it in groups is against mobs with lots of holds/mezzes when you need to lock down as many as possible (remember, I skipped flash, so if I want to stop more than one mob at a time, ST is my only option currently.)
As for "O Cr--!" buttons, If I wanted those I'd play a gravity controller with dimshift. Now THAT tips the balance FAST.
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
What are the odds that geko will read all the way down to this page?
Could we hear from the devs why the I3 version was changed? Maybe some people might actually support the change in that case. So far, while some people seem to feel I3 ST might have been too powerful, I haven't seen anyone who feels the change was an improvement.
Also, is there any chance it might be changed back, or into some new form? I'd like to know, because if there is, I'll wait a couple of weeks before I respect it out of my character.
Partial Character List: http://www.warlock-inc.com/CharList.html
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OK...guys are asking for what advantages ST has over other fear powers, and one guy asked how to avoid the alpha strike after casting it:
Unlike ALL the other fear-based powers, it is effectively a persistant AREA OF EFFECT power. This means that, to avoid alphas, you simply cast it AROUND A CORNER. Got that? you and your phantoms are standing around a corner, and you toss ST right into the middle of the mobs. Then you and your pets/group simply pick off anything that runs your way.
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Thats pretty weak compared to other fear powers. Though kudos on thinking of a way to make a near useless effect semi worth the endurance to throw out. Use fearsome stare for a bit. Theres no return fire when the mob is feared (ie, no such thing as an apha). You should easily be able to get the drop on enemies to dump this on them. Fearsome stare lasts so long, controls SUCH a massive area, and uses so little endurance, I really dont see the need to tack a problem on spectral terror...
I've revised my tactics to take advantage of the running mobs.
In a mish for example, I have ST, and superior invis.
My team waits around a corner or at the end of a hall. I run into the room, and hide behind something. a teammate has a TP on me in case it goes bad
I uninvis, and drop the Terror, Mobs go fleeing in fear, right into the waiting guns of my teammates. they're feared, so any that don't get attended to right away aren't attacking. and those that are get taken quickly.
Its more useful than a 'occasional' power, and rare is the case that I cannot find something to hide behind
Man o man... where to start...
Fisrt of all, I do not Love ST...but I do use it and i do see many uses for it... Scattering mobs does not imo make this a useless power. I admit i am a lil biased since Im one of the few who took tp foe and actually slotted it, but still we've all run into situations where we needed, sometimes desperately, mobs to run away from something. With the new change to ST, it seems many are looking ten times harder to spot the drawbacks of it than they are the opposite. Expectations are one thing, but to say a power is useless/ stupid/doesn't work/isnt good compared to...etc...simply because YOU can't or don't find a use for it seems plain silly.
I Reminisce.....
(Wow, I am taken back to level 18, when i searched these posts for any/every guide on pa, and in every one it stated how pa was most effective on single mobs... less effective in big grps... and we all know why of course) So lets see... now i have a power that will make higher lvl mobs spread out run a short distance and stop... and cower.... Hmmm seems like a good place for PA. -Arrest, move on to next Single cowering mob. Whether soloing or grouping, (im about 50/50) I've found several tactical uses for this power...Hmmm, think i may dedicate a post just for them...
Second, IMO... those who say ST wasnt too powerful after I3 are just bein humble, why else would ya want it back the way it was so badly 
I know i felt powerful... I mean I know we pride ourselves on never bein targeted or hit, but it made it a lil to easy to do so....(you mean i dont have to keep flashin and blinding. no need to tab continously to see whos holds are wearing off. It'll be just like all the other fear powers, but I can place it 40 feet away from me! You mean I just keep casting this here spectral terror and they'll just stand there in a nice group and cower... oh wait, a tohit debuff too.. nice...ooo it starts off perma... cool)
I was one of the many, many people who intergrated ST into their build via a free respec, and yes, when they changed it right back I was disappointed and hurt, and mad... but eventually I gave the devs their due credit. I figured that there HAD to be uses for this power... and I can either find some, or I can spend the next few months not looking for any all the while saying it doesnt "work". I have ideas of how it could improve, sure, but I guess Id rather not be dependent upon those changes being implemanted in order for me to find a way to make it work effectively the way it is.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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but still we've all run into situations where we needed, sometimes desperately, mobs to run away from something.
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No. Such situations are purely in your head, because the alternative would be to have them fearlocked like... drumroll... EVERY other fear power.
First off, what makes a GOOD Hero, is the fact you dont listen to some other clown tell you what powers to have, so you can basically mimic him. That's not what this game is about. You do what is best suited for you.
I have Spectral Terror, and I will thrash anyone who tells me it sucks. I'll give my example... As the most dominant Arch in the game, I did the Reactor Respec. First 2 times, I forgot all about my ST, and my Flash Blinds. Didn't bother using them. We failed both times. (For one, the team of morons refused to closely defend the reactor). 5th and 6th waves relentlessy attack the reactor.
So, 3rd time, I came up with the tactical plan. Attack baddies at the doors, while I, (the Controller) terrorizes anyone who gets to close to the reactor. We ran through the respec so easily it wasn't even funny. And we were lvl 30's at best at the time. So spectral terror is great when you use it accordingly.
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Second, IMO... those who say ST wasnt too powerful after I3 are just bein humble, why else would ya want it back the way it was so badly
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Because a decent, cool looking power that I found myself having a use for in a fight was replaced with a flaming piece of do do that makes things run and pretty much renders my anchor based secondary useless.
Maybe that won't be true with the changes Geko's proposing, but from the way it sounds, it will be.
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First 2 times, I forgot all about my ST, and my Flash Blinds. Didn't bother using them. We failed both times. (For one, the team of morons refused to closely defend the reactor). 5th and 6th waves relentlessy attack the reactor.
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If a controller plays terribly (ie, doesnt use their cc) on the reactor trial, Id expect to encounter "slight" difficulties too.
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So, 3rd time, I came up with the tactical plan. Attack baddies at the doors, while I, (the Controller) terrorizes anyone who gets to close to the reactor. We ran through the respec so easily it wasn't even funny. And we were lvl 30's at best at the time. So spectral terror is great when you use it accordingly.
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Does anyone actually know wh atthe other fear powers do? The EXACT same thing. mobs stop attacking, and cower in place. So if you want to protect something, they work just as well, if not better. Moreover, itsd easier to maintain such protection, because they are still grouped up for reapplication of fear before it wears off, as opposed to stumbling back one by one, making it HARDER to protect the object.
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I don't know why people care about the stackable debuffs. By the time ST put a mob at the accuracy minimum, the mobs were long since dead unless your build was terrible. It was kewl and all, but it didn't add to Subby's power at all.
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Well the fights your describing, using ST might be overkill. 
It likes comparing the minimum fighting even con minions vs fighting an AV. And saying well since I didn't need vs the even con minions the power mustn't be good. 
Stacking buffs/debuffs, make a heroe all the more powerful as a fight progresses. And if it doesn't make that big a difference I'd think you'd be very supportive of just removing the Stacking since afterall, it doesn't make much difference to you. 
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I thought it was kewl because it was the only control power we had that would have any impact on an AV fight. Cool ST could stack up accuracy debuffs and be useful in that fight, partially making up for the fact that, oh, every other control power we had sucked wind.
How on gawd's green earth that made ST "overpowered" is beyond me. Other than that, it was a semi-sleep that you could only use after you used some other control power.
Woot.
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So your primary concern was scatter, but if the power was returned to non-scatter without the self stacking -acc, you couldn't use it? Wow. U must be certainly l33t. L33t speak should be banned outside of Mega Tokyo.
add:
Mega Tokyo
Illusion had the only viable control power vs. AV's pre-I3 in Phantom Army.
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but still we've all run into situations where we needed, sometimes desperately, mobs to run away from something.
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No. Such situations are purely in your head, because the alternative would be to have them fearlocked like... drumroll... EVERY other fear power.
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That wouldn't be like every other FEAR power...
That would be like every other FEAR power... with the ability to have 2 - 3 of them up, placed anywhere you want, while you are also using other powers.... sounds just a tiny bit better.
If I wanted to lockdown every mob around me....I'd just use Flash.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
I hear ya ILL_CON, unfortunately people apparently never need to thin a crowd and can always lock down every single enemy they face already. Good old "Run Away!" ST is a life saver if there's more than you can lock, less because of the running and more because of the loss of LoS, aggro, and the extreme base fear duration.
I've been playing around with the "every other fear power" cone fear on my little 20 Dark/Elec, massive difference from ST. All other fears in the game are cone, single target, or melee and at least the Dark cone has a base duration of almost the base recharge. Plus you have to target, plus it costs just as much end, plus it's a narrower cone. In order to perma fear stuff with the normal fear powers you need probably to four slot the power. Honestly I like both forms but think that a lockdown spamming ST is too much.
Also, have you noticed that ST will now have Provoke? Well actually that's a small exaggeration. ST will hit everything near it with a minor fear(cower) effect, drawing aggro to you of course, but only affecting blues and greens. And of course the cone width got cut in half, at least that's what I understand.
All that said does anyone know of the changes are on test yet? It looks like I'm going to have to change my style (read: start taking on smaller spawns) or respec out of ST, which would really be a pity because it's a graphically cool power. Also I want to see if the fear duration changes, I think it will with the more lock like effects.
Whup, my bad. Too long after that last post to edit it and I made a mistake. I was grouped while playing with Fearsome Stare and didn't quite realize some of it's effects untill I went back and soloed some to get numbers off of it.
Now, comparing Fearsome Stare and Spectral Terror... Can't do it. Completely different powers for different effects, yes they both use the word 'fear' but they are completely different. And yes, ST casting the standard Terrify/FS fear cone would be way overpowered.
The base duration of the fear effect of both powers is about 30 seconds, perhaps a bit less. With FS any damage done causes the enemy to retaliate at heavily reduced accuracy and of course there's no running. With ST the enemies run away for 30 seconds and that's all they do, take as many potshots as you want, they won't turn and shoot you, then depending on terrain it will take another 15 to 30 seconds for the enemy to return. St has about one and a half times the base range to cast as the FS cone is long, but the ST cone is approximately the same size. Recharge and end cost for the two powers is pretty similar except of course that ST lasts 30 to 45 seconds itself and recasts it's fear cone at anything it can hit.
I have the feeling I'm going to really have to test the altered ST. Alot of it's usefulness will depend heavily on how wide the cone is and how far things run since it will be affecting far fewer enemies than before and attracting just as much aggro to me.
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I hear ya ILL_CON, unfortunately people apparently never need to thin a crowd and can always lock down every single enemy they face already.
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Yes. Its called we're competent. The devs realized this, and changed the power from a crappy "run away" power to something useful. Then apparently decided some stupid hybrid version that swcatters things enough to make life difficult was the best way to go...
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Good old "Run Away!" ST is a life saver if there's more than you can lock, less because of the running and more because of the loss of LoS, aggro, and the extreme base fear duration.
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If it would have run, it would have cowered. 0 advantage. PROVE me wrong. Oh you little scatter monkies cant.
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I've been playing around with the "every other fear power" cone fear on my little 20 Dark/Elec, massive difference from ST. All other fears in the game are cone, single target, or melee and at least the Dark cone has a base duration of almost the base recharge.
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This is flat out a lie, or you are bugged. Fearsome stare lasts WELL beyond recharge.
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Plus you have to target, plus it costs just as much end, plus it's a narrower cone.
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Fearsome stare is a HUGE cone that costs negligable endurange. What power are you using? And I have to target it? Heaven forbid I rely on my AI vs a summoned pet's...
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In order to perma fear stuff with the normal fear powers you need probably to four slot the power.
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Funny, my base slot locks things down quite nicely with FS...
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I think geko has said that making ST an instant lockdown power is too powerful, in the opinion of the devs, by virtue of changing it from when it practically was one.
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Let's not go putting words into the mouths of the developers. If Geko were to say "Yes, we felt the way Spectral Terror was behaving when Issue 3 was overpowered", that'd be one thing, but that never happened.
Maybe Geko felt the intent of ST was to have foes run, and had nothing to do with how powerful a tool it was?
I mean, I remember back when ST was on test, MizBHaven and I were trying to convince people it was worth taking at all. We had to give people tactics because most people were saying "The fact that they shoot every 7.5 seconds makes this power useless!" Now people are saying it was overpowered and the Devs feel this way too. Come on.
Until a red name says, "yes, We feel that ST having a cower effect only, with no scatter, is overpowered" I'm going to fight for a power that doesn't negate my secondary.