[ QUOTE ]
When you say Terrify "attack", Gecko, do you mean a Terrify that does damage like the Mind Controller power.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, ST has always attacked foes with Terrify and has never done damage. Same name different effects. In any case, Illusion Controllers really don't need another damage dealing power - without taking a hit someplace else.
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space
Why not make it so it just pulses an AE cone of fear like petrifying gaze or something? That can hit mobs multiple times, and they dont run.
We dont want the things to run at all. That spreads them out for debuffs, for AE damage, for ae control, etc. The entire point of the fear changes was to stop scattering. Why was the power changed from I3 release to how it is now on 1/18 in the first place? It was working right when you sent it out the door. It may have not been working as the description, but the description is that of a mediocre power.
Was it considered TOO good then?
[ QUOTE ]
I like those changes. Don't have a character with ST but they sound good.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, its pretty much garbage. Can people with no experience with a power stop saying something is good? Did I come in on the rage threads and say "hey, cool, thanks for getting rid of the disorient, the end drop sounds good"?
If this works like I hope it'll work there shouldn't be any major issues with runners. Just summon ST and blind the guy it hits. ST will continue to attack that target and he's not going anywhere. Albeit, this depends on how significantly the cone area has been narrowed.
'Tis true, we'd like the running to be nixed all together; but I feel this sounds like a fair compromise.
Will have to see once it goes onto test...
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space
Thank you for the look at the power and coming here to let us know what it will be. As long as the mobs don't run too far away I will be a happy camper.
Specteral terror as my blaster haven is baaaaack
[ QUOTE ]
If this works like I hope it'll work there shouldn't be any major issues with runners. Just summon ST and blind the guy it hits. ST will continue to attack that target and he's not going anywhere. Albeit, this depends on how significantly the cone area has been narrowed.
'Tis true, we'd like the running to be nixed all together; but I feel this sounds like a fair compromise.
Will have to see once it goes onto test...
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the problem is the difference between some people here wanting it to be a hold power while Geko seems to be aiming it to be used as more of a defensive power (by getting things out of melee range).
Ultimately, to me, how good these changes are for Terror will depend on far they run. If they run too far, the same problem as now.
Thanks Geko for letting everyone know the plans for Spectral Terror!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If this works like I hope it'll work there shouldn't be any major issues with runners. Just summon ST and blind the guy it hits. ST will continue to attack that target and he's not going anywhere. Albeit, this depends on how significantly the cone area has been narrowed.
'Tis true, we'd like the running to be nixed all together; but I feel this sounds like a fair compromise.
Will have to see once it goes onto test...
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the problem is the difference between some people here wanting it to be a hold power while Geko seems to be aiming it to be used as more of a defensive power (by getting things out of melee range).
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why this power has to be worse than a dark defender power. Fearsome Stare scares things, and they stand still, cowering, and retaliate when attacked. Terrify does the same thing. The presence pool fears as well... dark armor cloak of fear iirc... so why does ST have a run component? Is it to make the power weaker than the other versions?
[ QUOTE ]
I believe I speak for a plurality of Illusion controllers when I say that *any* scattering is going to be too much.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree about *any* scatter being too much, but 5 stars for using plurality correctly in a sentence. 
You may well be speaking for the greater part of the Illusionists. So, Ill just speak for myself.
Personally I think the changes outlined by Geko sound great. Having the enemies run can be a real advantage. Apart from the defensive function of keeping foes out of melee range, it can help separate and isolate them, increasing the odds your pets will focus on one target at a time, especially as that target will usually be held close by. This is how I use the current power, and it sounds like its just getting better, limiting their run distance.
Now, Im making the assumption that when an enemy runs it will be in a direction away from ST, hopefully within a 90 degree arc of STs facing. If so, this new version presents some interesting possibilities for herding. Otherwise, if they just run any which way, well that would kind of suck.
My big question is how will multiple STs interact. If a terrified villain runs into the cloak of fear of a different ST, will he freeze and tremble? If a terrified foe flees around a corner and into the terrify cone of a second ST, will he turn around and run back, or just keep going? I really hope he turns around. Watching two STs play villain ping-pong sounds like fun.
Well, those are my thoughts. Thank you Devs, this one goes out to you. (cut to Beatles Getting Better)
I have the question. What is spectral terror meanto do. Is is an area hold? Is it a area Fear? What? When I first got it I thought it was bad. The mobs would shoot me first, then run, every time so I stopped using it. Now it is a fear/hold. They dont shoot me first, some stay very few run. I liked this much better and have been using it a lot more now. I want to know the purpose of this power. If it is meant to scare mobs away, then I will not be using it again after new changes, mostly because of my AT [ill/rad], I need to keep mobs closer for my various debuffs for best yield. Now I am not saying dont change if for my particular build or playing style, but let me know what you had in mind for the power, and is it going to act in that manner, so I can plann accordingly.
My Thanks,
Gramaton Cleric
Champion Server
Controller[36][Ill/Rad]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I believe I speak for a plurality of Illusion controllers when I say that *any* scattering is going to be too much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Join the ice blaster and storm defender world for a while if you want to see the true face of scattering.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe you forgot to read my signature... level 26 ice/ice blaster and level 25 storm/energy defender.
And BTW, although Ice Storm is really bad about scattering, at least my storm defender has control over where mobs are pushed. I'm really digging Gale, having respecced into it.
Lady Deacon, 50 ill/ff
Cinder Imp, 50 fa/wm
and many more!
Thank you for addressing that you are working on spectral terror. At least we now know it is not presently 'fixed'
I really want illusion to be the premier pet class. Please keep this in mind and make all three of my pets effective and not situational. I just do not see running away as control
Spectral terror is a level 26 power, it should be very good. I have it and rarely used it pre I3 but really liked it for the short time post I3 before patch as it stacked to be an effective hold. I feel that as a level 26 power it should be better than level 18 Phantom Army.
I frequently group with a fire tank, my phantasms cause more knock back from the burn patches then there worth so I dont use them. Now it sounds like when ST power is fixed what I bring to the table is knock back and run away powers. My top two powers are anti group.
There is something obviously wrong with illision because I could easily group for the whole night and never run into the situational use of both spectral terror and phantasm.
Repeat that - I could group for the whole night and not encounter a situation where it would be better to use my top two powers than to not use them?
[ QUOTE ]
I feel that as a level 26 power it should be better than level 18 Phantom Army.
There is something obviously wrong with illision because I could easily group for the whole night and never run into the situational use of both spectral terror and phantasm.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not every power is "better" than the ones that come before it. The game isn't designed that way.
There is nothing wrong with illusion. Phantasm is not any more or less situational than the burn patches your buddy was dropping. If it doesn't fit your playstyle, then I suggest trying a different powerset.
**This message has been brought to you by the Committee for the Preservation of Phantasm Knockback
[url="http://tinyurl.com/4ylgy"]The Wanderers[/url] of Virtue
We farm fun!
[rant]...after 50 lvls of illusion controlling i cant think of many times when i felt an AOE fear power would be useful. i picked up ST only after trying it on test and seeing it hold foes with cowering.
it appears that no matter how many 'fixes' we go through, Spectral Terror was intended to be a fear power which causes foes to run away. run away and cower or run away and loose aggre or run away and attack doesnt matter to me. i dont like "run away" powers.
i have yet to see any effective strategy by a high level illusion controller that involved getting the foes to run away. can someone here give me a scenarion where they want this??
pre-attack strategies may be:
"ok 1st the controller will send in the PA and debuff"
"ok 1st the controller will buff us with group inviso"
"ok 1st the controller will go in and get the mob to scatter??"(huh)
i have never seen this power be useful (after 1/18) and i would never suggest a illusion controller take or use it. in short it sux IMHO and should be removed completely(not 'fixed') in favor of another AOE hold
its just a shame that i hafta waste ANOTHER respec just to get rid of this useless nonsense of a power that i should never have taken to begin with...[/rant]
You know what I think would be really neat? If ST had a fixed facing when you placed it and it emitted a fairly wide cone that would reliably force stuff away from the controller. While situational, I could envision it being a decent panic power to wall off additional groups of mobs.
[url="http://tinyurl.com/4ylgy"]The Wanderers[/url] of Virtue
We farm fun!
[ QUOTE ]
[rant]...after 50 lvls of illusion controlling i cant think of many times when i felt an AOE fear power would be useful. i picked up ST only after trying it on test and seeing it hold foes with cowering.
it appears that no matter how many 'fixes' we go through, Spectral Terror was intended to be a fear power which causes foes to run away. run away and cower or run away and loose aggre or run away and attack doesnt matter to me. i dont like "run away" powers.
i have yet to see any effective strategy by a high level illusion controller that involved getting the foes to run away. can someone here give me a scenarion where they want this??
pre-attack strategies may be:
"ok 1st the controller will send in the PA and debuff"
"ok 1st the controller will buff us with group inviso"
"ok 1st the controller will go in and get the mob to scatter??"(huh)
i have never seen this power be useful (after 1/18) and i would never suggest a illusion controller take or use it. in short it sux IMHO and should be removed completely(not 'fixed') in favor of another AOE hold
its just a shame that i hafta waste ANOTHER respec just to get rid of this useless nonsense of a power that i should never have taken to begin with...[/rant]
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, at least the next respec will be easier, what with you spamming spectral terror on the reactor.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I think a lot of you are missing the key part of new ST:
[ QUOTE ]
ST has a Cloak of Fear. Lower level/ranked foes will tremble in its presence.
[/ QUOTE ]
IOW, even rank and better mobs can only be Terrified.
I don't know about you guys, but by the mid-20's I wouldn't touch an even-con mob with a 10' pole. They weren't worth the trouble. So why do you want a control power that only meaningfully interacts w/ low-level cons?
It'll be interesting to test, I'm hoping it plays out better.
[ QUOTE ]
I know you're trying to make a power that's both fun and balanced. Chasing down mobs is not fun though, ever.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to put in that not everyone feels this way. In fact, if it was as easy to clump up mobs consistently in every fight, the combat would be kind of a snoozefest. I have a storm/energy blast defender and both powersets have inherent (and often unpredictable) knockback. I regularly duo with a fire tanker. If you go with conventional wisdom, the fire tanker should be driven insane anytime I fire off a power and there's some knockback or scatter. But he doesn't because knockback and scatter is part of the game. I don't want the villains lined up like ducks in a shooting gallery. If some flee, I chase them down. It's part of the challenge. Chasing an errant bad guy blindly around a corner and into a previously unseen group of villains is one of the things that can make a mission exciting. Then again, having Steamy Mist prevents a few "Oops" moments, too. 
Now, excessive and deliberate scatter can be a bit much, but what Geko is describing for spectral terror sounds reasonable to me. On the other hand, watching mobs run/skate and superjump after being disoriented is too much, in my view.
In the end, it's different strokes for different folks, I guess. You really can't please everyone.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, excessive and deliberate scatter can be a bit much, but what Geko is describing for spectral terror sounds reasonable to me. On the other hand, watching mobs run/skate and superjump after being disoriented is too much, in my view.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, it sounds good to you? Great, then maybe we can convince Geko to let you have my Spectral Terror and I'll take your Thunderclap in its place.
Game challenges should originate from the environment or from other players, not from the controls or side effect of powers themselves. If the immobilize side effect of Spectral Terror made the power too strong, then decrease the fear duration.
I've had several missions since the infamous 1/18 patch where my use of Spectral Terror has caused enemies to run and hide. This has added (I have to guess) an accumulated 15-20 minutes of frustrating hide-and-seek to missions that have 'defeat all' as a requirement. I've learned to reserve use of the power to AVs where its useful for the debuff and little else. If after the changes enemies still flee the Spectral Terror then I will remove it from my hero.
Lady Deacon, 50 ill/ff
Cinder Imp, 50 fa/wm
and many more!
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I think would be really neat? If ST had a fixed facing when you placed it and it emitted a fairly wide cone that would reliably force stuff away from the controller. While situational, I could envision it being a decent panic power to wall off additional groups of mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]Y'know, I like that idea. Fix the cone away from the caster at the time of casting, to allow for better aggro shaping (disperse a few, cower a few).
I JUST respec'd out of ST last night after not hearing a peep from the devs since the 18th, and go figger, all I had to do was read the forums when I got home and see it. ;( Great timing, Turg... well, can respec on test and live, so got plenty of playtime for experimentation. We'll see.
Geko, my main question for you: Was the Issue 3 rollout of ST "NOT" the vision the Devs had? If not, why was it released, then pulled back w/o comment on the why's? As yet, we've not heard why the I3 version of ST was rolled back, and yes, it's being left in the dark about it that's got a lot of us teed off. Respecs were wasted on this rollback.
I'd like to see ST become a power Illusionists would want to use. While I may not get it for myself (no build room right now), it's a class-specific power that could be a lot "cooler" than it actually appears to be. Give mobs the "run and scream like a little schoolgirl" animations like regular NPCs get (this SOMETIMES triggers, but mostly it doesn't). Throw a roar in with each Terrify blast. Make it something to make Bob Hellion soil himself.
I was going to say that this was more of a "Spectral Terrible", but that's not fair; the power just needs work. The Devs can make it happen. Just PLEASE, keep us in the loop for this, because a lot of us feel like you guys dropped the ball since the 18th.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
I used ST yesterday while catching up on badges in the Hollows, and for a mob at lvl 7, it makes all the minions, and a few lts cower in fear, while the bosses and some lts run away (one waving his hands, looking like a sissy) shoot at me, then cower.
Anyone else tried it on mobs their actual lvl or higher yet?
[color=red]F[color=orange]R[color=yellow]E[color=green]E [color=blue]P[color=indigo]O[color=violet]R[color=red]N[color=orange]![color=white]
(only if its got hot men)
[ QUOTE ]
I used ST yesterday while catching up on badges in the Hollows, and for a mob at lvl 7, it makes all the minions, and a few lts cower in fear, while the bosses and some lts run away (one waving his hands, looking like a sissy) shoot at me, then cower.
Anyone else tried it on mobs their actual lvl or higher yet?
[/ QUOTE ]Yes, on lvl 50 Possessed scientists and death mages (minions, lt's and boss).
It's a matter of position. The cone effect is so wide that placing it off to the side of a group will cone Terrify the whole group, and they run off screaming - all of them. Place it dead center in a mob, and half the mob will run, while the other half cowers.. until the next Terrify, when it pivots to them and makes them run too. The run effect is 100% certain from my POV.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know you're trying to make a power that's both fun and balanced. Chasing down mobs is not fun though, ever.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to put in that not everyone feels this way. In fact, if it was as easy to clump up mobs consistently in every fight, the combat would be kind of a snoozefest. I have a storm/energy blast defender and both powersets have inherent (and often unpredictable) knockback. I regularly duo with a fire tanker. If you go with conventional wisdom, the fire tanker should be driven insane anytime I fire off a power and there's some knockback or scatter. But he doesn't because knockback and scatter is part of the game. I don't want the villains lined up like ducks in a shooting gallery. If some flee, I chase them down. It's part of the challenge. Chasing an errant bad guy blindly around a corner and into a previously unseen group of villains is one of the things that can make a mission exciting. Then again, having Steamy Mist prevents a few "Oops" moments, too.
Now, excessive and deliberate scatter can be a bit much, but what Geko is describing for spectral terror sounds reasonable to me. On the other hand, watching mobs run/skate and superjump after being disoriented is too much, in my view.
In the end, it's different strokes for different folks, I guess. You really can't please everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Cool, you like a power that makes the game more difficult. Lets change taunt to where it DUMPS aggro! That'll be cool too.
You know, I've been following this thread since Geko posted it yesterday, and I can't help but to notice that different people expect very different things for this power.
I know I personally think of it as an ACC debuff that has a slow effect from the cower.
Others want it to be more of a rooting tool, keeping everything in place
Others seem to want it to create a "safe zone" much like bonfire does for a fire controller, only using fear instead of knockback.
So here's my question, what intent do you see this power being, Geko? Is it meant to keep you safe from melee, or is it meant to be a bit more crowd control?
Personally, the best idea I've read on this thread is the guy who recomended that ST drop the pbaoe fear aura, and drop terrify and just chain cast Fearsome Stare from the dark set. This would be exactly what I want from the power, but it seems to me that Geko has something else in mind...
I would respond with why the changed proposed are a bad idea, but I am seething with hate right now. I have tried the breathing & counting bit , but I am up to 300 (in spanish which I barely remember from middle school) and it has not helped. I'll post later....
[ QUOTE ]
Most of the complaints about ST came from it making things run away.
[/ QUOTE ]
The primary issue was that it was tested for a month and a half and then changed back with out any note and or response. Making things run away was a general issue with all Fear powers. It was generally thought of as useless; thus the global Fear change.
I personally had no problem with ST staying the way it was - but it didn't - and I used my freespec to pick it up. That was where the majority of the 'complaints' came from.
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space