[ QUOTE ]
Wow, it sounds good to you? Great, then maybe we can convince Geko to let you have my Spectral Terror and I'll take your Thunderclap in its place.
Game challenges should originate from the environment or from other players, not from the controls or side effect of powers themselves. If the immobilize side effect of Spectral Terror made the power too strong, then decrease the fear duration.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why is it inherently wrong for powers to have challenging side effects? Its challenging to deal with a set that has knockback, but its fun mastering the skill of using knockback. Illusion is considered the "chaotic control" set so I accept that ST is going to have some form of flee, or scatter, or something. Whether its the right amount or not is the point of debate. But saying the power is broken just because it has an effect you don't like isn't really productive. I doubt it will ever be a true lock-down power.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of you are missing the key part of new ST:
[ QUOTE ]
ST has a Cloak of Fear. Lower level/ranked foes will tremble in its presence.
[/ QUOTE ]
IOW, even rank and better mobs can only be Terrified.
I don't know about you guys, but by the mid-20's I wouldn't touch an even-con mob with a 10' pole. They weren't worth the trouble. So why do you want a control power that only meaningfully interacts w/ low-level cons?
It'll be interesting to test, I'm hoping it plays out better.
[/ QUOTE ]
English is inherently ambiguous; the classifications "lower" and "higher" don't necessarily mean "xxx than you."
One would hope not, anyhow. I would assume (i.e., hope) that it would be a calculation based on level/rank/race like confusion, holds, etc.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I think would be really neat? If ST had a fixed facing when you placed it and it emitted a fairly wide cone that would reliably force stuff away from the controller. While situational, I could envision it being a decent panic power to wall off additional groups of mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Y'know, I like that idea. Fix the cone away from the caster at the time of casting, to allow for better aggro shaping (disperse a few, cower a few).
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, if I had my druthers. ST would be kind of like TK. You'd target a spot in the distance, and it would appear next to you and move toward the target, pushing stuff away from you as it went.
Personally, while I think the immobilize version of ST, given the acc debuff and the fact you can easily get several out at one time, may well be too powerful.
[url="http://tinyurl.com/4ylgy"]The Wanderers[/url] of Virtue
We farm fun!
imo all powers should be thought of as..."man,how am i gonna get all 9 of my primary powers...all 9 of my secondary powers and all 4 of all the power pools?"
seems to me that all powers should be awesomely animated,unique and useful,and that is especially so for the pwers u get later in the heros career.
there is no reason for ST,jump kick,fast healing, just to name a few, should be skipped powers. they should all be used and have some use in the game.
in other games where ure lev 1 pwer gets bumped because its damage or usefullness is capped at say lev 5, then it is understandable. but in coh ure lev 1 power may be used all the way to lev 50
ST is an illusionary power,in its animation it screams and has hands...why cant the ST "grab" mob and scream or have some other type of effect? why cant it cast spells? cast some phantom armies of its own? its our game and our imagination,whats the problem!? 
[ QUOTE ]
Grouping with Ranged: Immob = bad, Scatter = good.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd think that at lvl 26 when all players have an AoE and or cone, they'd like them - more or less - all packed together. Scattering them into other groups of mobs ain't so good either.
And do remember that Fear is more than just an immob. Single target shooters can go at em one at a time without the relative fear of retaliation from the others.
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space
[ QUOTE ]
Grouping with Melee: Immob = good, Scatter = bad.
Grouping with Ranged: Immob = bad, Scatter = good.
Blasters will fight running-mobs more happily than shooting-mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Single target blasters, maybe. AoE blasters no.
With my Fire/Dev I never liked mobs to scatter. Immobilzied they are at the most only going to get off one shot before I kill them anyway (and if I didn't do the immob then I don't have their aggro at the start). Running / Terrified mobs take much longer to track down and kill. And now with my Ill/Rad if I use ST in Oranbenga (sp?) it takes forever (slight overstatement) to track down all the runners and kill them.
Guess you can tell I'm in the "liked ST right after I3, don't like it now" camp. <shrug> If it gets improved (again) great, if not - well I couldn't fit Mutation and ST in my current build anyway so I'll just respec and get on with life.
I just wish that AT would be locked down one way or another so I know if I should respec or not. The switching back and forth between something I find useful and something I have no use for is what gets to me.
[ QUOTE ]
Grouping with Melee: Immob = good, Scatter = bad.
Grouping with Ranged: Immob = bad, Scatter = good.
Blasters will fight running-mobs more happily than shooting-mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
And only stupid blasters want to fight scattered mobs when they could instead be fighting clumped mobs.
Go make a dark defender. Get to the lofty level fo 8 or whenever you get fearsome stare. Give it a go. Its MUCH better than spectral terror is. The things stand still, and cower. Its an immobilize coupled with a recurring sleep. Terrify does the same thing. Why, when we went througha bunch of teasting on fear to make them not run, are things running?!
If you want to protect an item... the cowering thing works great. If they would have run, they instead stand around and dont attack, so you can pick them off one by one. Or you can AE them, and they sometimes retaliate, then go back to cowering. Theres no real advantage to sending something running a little bit, or at all, compared to a recurring sleep/immob. Ive solod hazard zones with fearsome stare.
I say make the ghost thorw that out every 15 seconds or whatever.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grouping with Melee: Immob = good, Scatter = bad.
Grouping with Ranged: Immob = bad, Scatter = good.
Blasters will fight running-mobs more happily than shooting-mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Single target blasters, maybe. AoE blasters no.
[/ QUOTE ]
there is zero benefit for a single target blaster. They are only shooting one guy at a time, so only one can retaliate (which he woudl do if he was running). Except the single target blaster might have to follow him, and possibly aggro other groups/get away from heals/buffs etc. in no way does scatterig help.
Devs, if it was considered too good before, just say so, admit its nerfed, and we can move on. But theres only a disadvantage to the new form.
I wouldn't mind the original ST, if only it didn't direct so much aggro to the controller. Really, that was the only fix they needed.
[ QUOTE ]
Why is it inherently wrong for powers to have challenging side effects?
[/ QUOTE ]
The main mechanic of City of Heroes is to arrest enemies, to do so quickly[1] without accruing debt.[2] All powers (including those related to travel) must be able to help the player execute this mission. If a power fails to do this it's not worth taking. A side effect (or indeed, the main effect) of a power, on balance, may reduce the players efficiency; that is to say, whatever usefulness a power has is overshadowed by its drawback.
Let's examine a power which fails to pass the test: Dimension Shift. Although Dimension Shift can help reduce the accumulation of debt, its caster has no control over the duration of the power. The speed which a group arrests enemies is actually reduced by Dimension Shift and therefore you will find few Gravity controllers that take this power, much fewer those that actually use it.
Now let's examine Spectral Terror (hereforth, ST) under the same lamp. The original ST cast a fear effect in a cone range with the intent of sparing a party accruing debt. It's drawback of slowing down the party was judged to not be worth its benefit in the overwhelming majority of encounters and therefore was seldom taken by a controller. After the I3 changes, ST caused enemies to stay in place (making them more susceptible to AoE attacks) and reduced their combat output in several ways (debuffs, fear effect). After I3, ST was excellent for both arresting enemies quickly and reducing the occurance of debt. Currently ST no longer speeds the party along, it only reduces the occurance of debt. The question remaining is this: Does the extra time it takes to arrest an enemy effected by ST offset the reduction in debt?
[1]arrest enemies
Powers that significantly reduce the targets hit points, or powers which cause the enemy to take more damage such as defense or resist debuffs. Also, travel powers which reduce the time it takes to move from one encounter to the next.
[2]without accruing debt
Powers that reduce the damage that players take, powers that heal damage, powers that debuff or place status effects on enemies.
Lady Deacon, 50 ill/ff
Cinder Imp, 50 fa/wm
and many more!
I've had ST pre I3 since I was able to pick it up. Pre 32 it was nice in smaller teams and solo to take on larger groups because they would all run off and then they would come back pretty close to one at at time. But as I leveled on it became more and more situational and inevitably used less and less until I rarely if ever used it.
Then I3 came along where having an additional immob/hold/debuff was useful until they reverted back to the running and I respect out of it. But it was nice while it lasted. I plan to respec it back in at 44 if the new changes are at all useful for my level.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is it inherently wrong for powers to have challenging side effects?
[/ QUOTE ]
The main mechanic of City of Heroes is to arrest enemies, to do so quickly[1] without accruing debt.[2] All powers (including those related to travel) must be able to help the player execute this mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Condescending, verbose, and non-sequitor is not an effective mode of discourse, especially when performed simultaneously. My statement was in response to this statement of yours:
[ QUOTE ]
Game challenges should originate from the environment or from other players, not from the controls or side effect of powers themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
My question was, on what basis do you make this assertion? This statement doesn't talk about spectral terror. It seems to argue that any side effect they put into ST you don't like demonstrates some sort of lack of understanding or error on the part of the developers. It seems clear to me that not only can powers have deleterious side effects, but that such side effects represent one of the few ways to perform any balancing in the game at all. By your statement, the END crash at the end of elude is a mistake on the part of the devs - they ought not to be creating challenges by putting an undesirable side effect in the power, but should do something else entirely. What that something else is, I can't imagine. Perhaps everytime I invoke elude, an ambush attacks me or something, maybe.
Whether the side effect is appropriate is a separate issue. Completely running for the hills and hiding in a closet in an indoor mission was extreme. The proposed change seems to be more balanced overall. It remains to be seen if the effect actually works the way the developers envision, and separate from that whether the effect the developers envision will be useful. But it seems a step in the right direction.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
Condescending, verbose, and non-sequitor is not an effective mode of discourse, especially when performed simultaneously. My statement was in response to this statement of yours:
[/ QUOTE ]
Concerning discourse, perhaps we can conduct it without resorting to ad hominem remarks. Although this is the internet; perhaps that's too much to hope for. At any rate, I'm sorry that you felt condecended to. I was trying to be as clear as possible. My admittedly verbose reply was meant to reveal the fabric of my perspective so that you could better see where I'm coming from.
[ QUOTE ]
My question was, on what basis do you make this assertion? This statement doesn't talk about spectral terror. It seems to argue that any side effect they put into ST you don't like demonstrates some sort of lack of understanding or error on the part of the developers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I make it on the simplest basis possible; of what is fun and what isn't. When one's powers hinder play, it is not fun, and is therefore an undesirable play element. As I wrote in an earlier post, an alternate solution for tempering Spectral Terror would be to reduce its fear duration.
As for the developers lacking understanding, I think they've already demonstrated on several occasions that they lacked the foresight to gauge player reaction to power set changes. Case in point, Geko's assumption that players would prefer knockback to knockdown. I think you'd have to concede that point, anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
It seems clear to me that not only can powers have deleterious side effects, but that such side effects represent one of the few ways to perform any balancing in the game at all. By your statement, the END crash at the end of elude is a mistake on the part of the devs - they ought not to be creating challenges by putting an undesirable side effect in the power, but should do something else entirely.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anticipating this argument, I'd written a paragraph dileneating a power's cost and its effect. I deleted it because I thought the distinction was too fine to easily argue. I've since reconsidered and concluded that there is no difference. However, as you mention Elude, I'd like to point out a trend to you: powers such as Adrenalin Boost and Mutation have had their disorient drawback removed, and now that Perma-Unstoppable is no longer possible, the power itself has fallen by the wayside. If Elude is ever made so that it can't be made permanent then it too will follow Unstoppable into semi-retirement. The developers realize that powers with penalties result in powers that are infrequently used and commonly complained about.
Lady Deacon, 50 ill/ff
Cinder Imp, 50 fa/wm
and many more!
Geko, care to take on the AI of Singularity next? I mean, when you're finished.
Damage AI for a control pet = 
Sounds like you could use almost the same one. I'd rather have ST's AI than poo or jack's.
[ QUOTE ]
I make it on the simplest basis possible; of what is fun and what isn't. When one's powers hinder play, it is not fun, and is therefore an undesirable play element. As I wrote in an earlier post, an alternate solution for tempering Spectral Terror would be to reduce its fear duration.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hurm. Interjecting here, but putting my vocabulary primer on the shelf. "The simplest basis possible: of what is fun and what isn't." Blue is good and red is bad. Typewriter is wrong, oven mitt is right. Fun, like so many other things is primarily subjective and therefore not an empirical measure.
I know, you're referring to your own fun in the matter, but for me, regardless of how the powers work, the "fun" is all about working with your weaknesses as well as your strengths. It's not heroic if it's easy. Superman doesn't run away if there's kryptonite involved - he finds a way to win. And if his powers suddenly go away or behave erratically (which they have done on numerous occasions) he still finds a way. So nerfed, renerfed, unnerfed, "as designed". They're your powers. Use them to the best of your ability.
Because the hero doesn't reside in the powers...it resides in you.
Cheers!
Max
================================
Without the "hero" in superhero, you're just a bully.
Engremore/IronMax/Jackalope/BaronMind - Infinity server
Engremore/IronMax/Doc Martian- Triumph Server
Just Click on City of Heroes
I rarely see how the "run away" component is useful aside from Single target blasters. Melees will hate you since they have to chase the mobs when they split into the 4 winds, Illusion/Storm is already the freaking king of Scatter... why in heavens name would you want to give them another uber scatter power? You know they don't want more! And thats speaking for Illusion in general. We are already hated by our lvl 32's pet of knocking mobs back into every direction... why is that we need another power that does the same?
I wouldn't mind if ST did something different aside from fear, since obviously no one is honestly happy with that there is still the "run away" component. We tested Spectral Terror for months before I3 came out, why the sudden switch? Perhaps make it act like Tar patch or something that causes mobs to just stay in place.
Heh, I would mind a female version of Phantasm that causes foes to stay in place while it dances around acting like a breakable immobilize whenever they get smacked.
[ QUOTE ]
Concerning discourse, perhaps we can conduct it without resorting to ad hominem remarks. Although this is the internet; perhaps that's too much to hope for. At any rate, I'm sorry that you felt condecended to. I was trying to be as clear as possible. My admittedly verbose reply was meant to reveal the fabric of my perspective so that you could better see where I'm coming from.
[/ QUOTE ]
I asked a very specific question, and I quoted the specific statement you made in reference to it. You did not state that bad side effects ought to be balanced, you said they should not exist at all. I asked why you thought that. I got a response explaining the purpose of the game to me, and explaining how spectral terror works, with footnotes. Explaining what you mean by "arrest" is pretty condescending, unless you think I'm a moron. And since none of it has anything to do with my question, its completely non-sequitor.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My question was, on what basis do you make this assertion? This statement doesn't talk about spectral terror. It seems to argue that any side effect they put into ST you don't like demonstrates some sort of lack of understanding or error on the part of the developers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I make it on the simplest basis possible; of what is fun and what isn't. When one's powers hinder play, it is not fun, and is therefore an undesirable play element. As I wrote in an earlier post, an alternate solution for tempering Spectral Terror would be to reduce its fear duration.
As for the developers lacking understanding, I think they've already demonstrated on several occasions that they lacked the foresight to gauge player reaction to power set changes. Case in point, Geko's assumption that players would prefer knockback to knockdown. I think you'd have to concede that point, anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not required to concede that point, because I prefer knockback to knockdown a majority of the cases where I have powers with the effect.
BTW, this still doesn't answer my question. You are still giving me reasons why you don't want bad side effects. I'll concede that particular fact as a given. The question is still why do you think that they are inherently a bad idea. You suggest here in the specific case of ST, trading a bad side effect with a weaknening of the power. I'm assuming you are implying that it is always true that most people would prefer that sort of trade. Well, I'm here to tell you that if I could remove the knockback from my energy blasts in exchange for lowering the damage, uh, no. Same thing for my illusionist's pets. Drop the damage of nova in exchange for taking out the END crash? I don't think most blasters would be thrilled there either.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems clear to me that not only can powers have deleterious side effects, but that such side effects represent one of the few ways to perform any balancing in the game at all. By your statement, the END crash at the end of elude is a mistake on the part of the devs - they ought not to be creating challenges by putting an undesirable side effect in the power, but should do something else entirely.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anticipating this argument, I'd written a paragraph dileneating a power's cost and its effect. I deleted it because I thought the distinction was too fine to easily argue. I've since reconsidered and concluded that there is no difference. However, as you mention Elude, I'd like to point out a trend to you: powers such as Adrenalin Boost and Mutation have had their disorient drawback removed, and now that Perma-Unstoppable is no longer possible, the power itself has fallen by the wayside. If Elude is ever made so that it can't be made permanent then it too will follow Unstoppable into semi-retirement. The developers realize that powers with penalties result in powers that are infrequently used and commonly complained about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just a reminder, still no answer to my question. What a power costs and what an effect is has no bearing on anything. I contend that "bad side effects" are valid balancers in the game, and can be made to balance against the benefits of a power. You seem to be suggesting that such a balance attempt is inherently wrong. As such, it shouldn't matter to you what the side effect of a power is, or what its benefit is, only whether the side effect is purely benefiicial or not. If its not, by the thesis you are presenting, the power is broken and should be changed.
As to AB and mutation. Mutation had a disorient crash on the rezzed guy. That was seen as a serious problem if you cast the power in combat, because the person you cast it on would be in serious jeopardy a minute down the road. So people would cast it after combat when things were safe, and ride out the dizzy. As such, the side effect was being dodged. The devs decided that giving a rez a dizzy crash didn't make sense, and so removed it. I'm guessing that the devs simply decided there was no good reason for AB to have a self-dizzy; it was a penalty on empathy they decided it didn't need.
But none of this proves the devs are starting a trend towards removing all side effect balancers. Far from it, you specifically mention unstoppable, proof positive that the devs are still keeping power balancers in the game.
As to elude, you state that IF they weaken the power by making it non-perma (something a lot of people think they are going to do, but there is no evidence to support) then less people will take the power. I agree. But that doesn't address my point. Elude already has a serious side effect, the END crash. Yet people take elude, and happily play along with it. If the END crash was taken away, but Elude made non-perma, I think more people would be less happy with elude overall, even though this new version of elude has no bad side effects. In other words, people don't just look at side effects, they look at the balance of a power as a whole. The END crash is a better situation than the power being made non-perma, for at least a lot of people.
Which is my point.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make it on the simplest basis possible; of what is fun and what isn't. When one's powers hinder play, it is not fun, and is therefore an undesirable play element. As I wrote in an earlier post, an alternate solution for tempering Spectral Terror would be to reduce its fear duration.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hurm. Interjecting here, but putting my vocabulary primer on the shelf. "The simplest basis possible: of what is fun and what isn't." Blue is good and red is bad. Typewriter is wrong, oven mitt is right. Fun, like so many other things is primarily subjective and therefore not an empirical measure.
I know, you're referring to your own fun in the matter, but for me, regardless of how the powers work, the "fun" is all about working with your weaknesses as well as your strengths. It's not heroic if it's easy. Superman doesn't run away if there's kryptonite involved - he finds a way to win. And if his powers suddenly go away or behave erratically (which they have done on numerous occasions) he still finds a way. So nerfed, renerfed, unnerfed, "as designed". They're your powers. Use them to the best of your ability.
Because the hero doesn't reside in the powers...it resides in you.
Cheers!
Max
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, another vote from someone without spectral terror, telling us to accept a power that was working, and was broken on 1/18. Thanks! Lets leave powers broken and sub par, because its fun! Lets roll back twilight grasp to its previously stupid 4 second animation.. dead teammates are cool! Lets get rid of stacking armors. Bye bye punchvoke!
[ QUOTE ]
Just a reminder, still no answer to my question. What a power costs and what an effect is has no bearing on anything. I contend that "bad side effects" are valid balancers in the game, and can be made to balance against the benefits of a power.
[/ QUOTE ]
If spectral terror was better than ahnold, you might have a point. However, its not, and you dont. Why argue with someone who enjoys playing ina counterproductive fashion (ie, tossing freezing rains on a fire tank, galing to ruin AE damage). You play a mediocre set to cause frustration. You like to gimp yourself, and play inefficiently. Good for you, continue to enjoy playing poorly. Most CoH players dont, and want their powers to be good.
Ok, all right, here is my 2 inf worth (for what it matters to someone that has already had his mind made up on how powers and players SHOULD be). My Illusionist has ST and I love that power. Lets me solo, lets me set up a "safe" zone in a fight for other squishies, and lets me do another form of controlling. Since my Illusionist is a CONTROLLER and not a damage dealer its great. As for your mediocre powers comment, Empathy can be called one (since if you don't take damage you don't need to be healed or buffed if you got the "right" build), or bubbles (if you have a healer you don't need "protection"), or the entire scrapper powers or tank powers(if you can hold the mobs so they can't attack or you can range defeat them), it depends on PLAY style, NOT powers. I figure your a XP/min type player judging by your statements of playing gimped to Arcanaville, if so more power to you, just hope not to team up with you ever; if not my apology for misconstrueing your statement. Now about your comment to "playing a mediocre set to cause frustration" same thing can be said about any AT/powerset. Granted some of the reasons will be QUITE a stretch but they can be made. If you don't like controllers or their powersets then fine, but don't knock them without saying so FIRST.
My uses for ST that I have found.
With ST you can use it in a team WITHOUT scattering mobs. You stay at the back, pop ST at max range BEHIND YOU away from the group you are fighting. Then there is a safe haven for any squishy on the team that needs to retreat since the mobs will get ST'd and lose aggro. Also when ya have to protect something from getting destroyed pop one on top of whatever it is and the mobs will have other things to think of than destroying it. This is so far in groups since I don't have stamina or my RA yet to be able to pop pets, heal, hold and have a ST out yet also. I also don't team much since most of the time I spend healing cause the "real" healer is too busy being a offender instead healing.
I am taking my sig to MWO and MWT. Let them wonder what it means.
My point has consistantly been (paraphrasing) that game challenges should originate from the environment not from the powers themselves. I feel like I've answered the point to my satisfaction, and I'm sorry if I've failed to make yours.
Lady Deacon, 50 ill/ff
Cinder Imp, 50 fa/wm
and many more!
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and can the spectral terror look like Martha Stewart? Just wondering.
[/ QUOTE ]
Naw...It should look like Hillary Clinton. MUCH scarier.
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and can the spectral terror look like Martha Stewart? Just wondering.
[/ QUOTE ]
Naw...It should look like Hillary Clinton. MUCH scarier.
[/ QUOTE ]
No.. No.. No... A naked Bea Arthur.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just a reminder, still no answer to my question. What a power costs and what an effect is has no bearing on anything. I contend that "bad side effects" are valid balancers in the game, and can be made to balance against the benefits of a power.
[/ QUOTE ]
If spectral terror was better than ahnold, you might have a point. However, its not, and you dont. Why argue with someone who enjoys playing ina counterproductive fashion (ie, tossing freezing rains on a fire tank, galing to ruin AE damage). You play a mediocre set to cause frustration. You like to gimp yourself, and play inefficiently. Good for you, continue to enjoy playing poorly. Most CoH players dont, and want their powers to be good.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't talking about spectral terror at all, so I don't see how its effectiveness bears on anything. I was talking about game design principles in general, and why I think sometimes powers will have side effects that aren't optimal, and that was unavoidable. Whether those side effects are appropriate from a balance perspective is a different issue. I do think the "make a run for the border" behavior was too extreme. The proposed change sounds like it makes more sense, even if it isnt what everyone wants, including some people who want to make ST effectively a hold.
As to what I play, and how I play, what I like, and what degree of frustration I cause, good for you that you can tell that without teaming with me. Because then you can avoid me if we ever cross paths, which sounds basically like a good idea. I'm not sure if its true that most CoH players play efficiently, but I do know that most CoH players are not crazy about teaming with players who throw insults around.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
I don't even care if spectral terror works. Just make it cause freak tanks to run while waving their hands in the air for three seconds, and I'll be happy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Word.
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I liked the 'run away' ST and thought the 'all cower' ST was overpowered. I picked up ST after Issue 2 and learned to use it as a fear power, it was not always useful, but there were times when having things run so far away that they lost aggro was useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
True.
[ QUOTE ]
Repeat that - I could group for the whole night and not encounter a situation where it would be better to use my top two powers than to not use them?
[/ QUOTE ]
Grouping with Melee: Immob = good, Scatter = bad.
Grouping with Ranged: Immob = bad, Scatter = good.
Blasters will fight running-mobs more happily than shooting-mobs.
[ QUOTE ]
i have never seen this power be useful (after 1/18) and i would never suggest a (sic) illusion controller take or use it.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is not a combat power; it's an anti-combat power.
[ QUOTE ]
You know what I think would be really neat? If ST had a fixed facing when you placed it and it emitted a fairly wide cone that would reliably force stuff away from the controller. While situational, I could envision it being a decent panic power to wall off additional groups of mobs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's always been a good panic power.. for the team. You could call the power Attempt Martyrdom.
In all honesty, by level 28 I had all the nominal-conditions control that I needed. ST was one of the only powers that would allow me to recover a hopeless situation, protect a blaster nest, or save a destructible objective; I dont think my reactor took a single point of damage at level 34, and Ive never lost any glowies. At I3, it was just an area hold where they get a free pot-shot on you first.
As far as the changes go, meh. I appreciate that theyre looking at it. I appreciate that theyre trying to reach a compromise. It would be nice if theyd just envision what they want for ST, and make it happen, opinions be damned.
I think the only thing that was wrong with ST in the first iteration was that enemies shot at the controller instead of the ST, and that they ran a bit too far. It sure was fun though.