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However, if you get hit, you take dull damage.
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Dull damage? Like when you tank Marauder for 30 minutes and nearly fall asleep? 
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A fire sword isn't sharp, I guess.
Thank you for that. I missed it, and found it very funny.
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be ready to explain that again in 3 months when everyone forgets.
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I wish the board archived all messages from the devs ... permanently. It'd end an awful lot of posts along the lines of, "I think Geko (Statesman?) explained this a while back. Something about how smashing / energy defense from fire primary stack? No idea why I don't seem to have any defense; I get hit so much more than a stoner. Must be a bug."
Heheh...
Now, thanks to that typo, people will be asking if Unyielding gives resistances to Dull damage.
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Currently listening to Devo's Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
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Rock, rock on Hamster.
I can tell you that it was a bit much that at level 22 I could herd an entire level in the Synapse TF because my glacial armor and frozen armor floored mobs to a 5% chance of hitting me.
Although it was fun to have 8 bosses going "whif","whif", "whif". Just had to be carefull for that "SLAM". 
It is a nerf to Ice tanks but thats about the only people it will be affecting. Oh, snap. It will also effect bubble defenders. Now they "have" to slot their bubbles.
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This was actually a big help to Dark Melee Scrappers and Energy Melee Tankers (plus others). Mobs were basically doubling their defense against the dual-"element" based attacks.
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Dont forget eng blasters. Nems and sky raiders were a real pain for an eng blaster if they got a FF up.
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Dont forget eng blasters. Nems and sky raiders were a real pain for an eng blaster if they got a FF up.
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Yep , that's why I added (plus others). It actually helps a lot of people. More then I thought really, so it looks to be a good thing overall.
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Oh the other paw, it's hurting some ice, stone, and fire tankers who were getting double defense bonuses against some types of damage.
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Fire tanks have no defense of any type. They only have (limited by tank standards) damage resist, which isn't changed by this.
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be ready to explain that again in 3 months when everyone forgets.
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Yup. Which would be yet another reason to post the numbers on the website, if not in game.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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(For the record, the Tanker power, Fire Shield, gives a base 30% damage resistance to smashing, lethal, fire, and 10% resistance to cold (no defense.))
The Deflection Shield would give you 25% Defense to Lethal and Smashing attacks and the Dispersion bubble would give you 18.75% Defense to Lethal, Smashing, Fire, Cold, Energy and Negative Energy Attacks.
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How many cookies would it take to get numbers like this on all the powers?
Yeah, but this basically screws Ice Tankers, no have almost NO resistance, and all defense. Now they have MUCH less defense because their stacked armors will not help them. 
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The Deflection Shield would give you 25% Defense to Lethal and Smashing attacks and the Dispersion bubble would give you 18.75% Defense to Lethal, Smashing, Fire, Cold, Energy and Negative Energy Attacks.
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Are those the real numbers for force field or just used as an example? A while ago a force field defender went on the test server and recorded the frequency of hits against even level minions. He collected data for around 1,000 attacks for each bubble and reported dispersion bubble to be +12.5% defense unslotted and insulation/deflection shield to be +20% defense unslotted. This is the first I've seen of a developer posting numbers for force field and I wanted to make sure that those were the real numbers and not being used as an example? I don't think the site still has his data but I can post the link if you want.
And if each SO does 20% defense buff, then six slotted insulation and deflection should be +55% defense while dispersion is 41.25%...Is that correct? That seems extremely high.
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The Deflection Shield would give you 25% Defense to Lethal and Smashing attacks and the Dispersion bubble would give you 18.75% Defense to Lethal, Smashing, Fire, Cold, Energy and Negative Energy Attacks.
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Geko: Are these the actual number or did you just make them up? I was under the impression the percentages were 20% and 12.5% based upon extensive testing from many a FF.
Not that I'm complaining if they are correct.
Edit: Jesterman beat me to it. 
Synergy Lvl 50 Def FF/Electric/Psy - Protector
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ha! I beat you Synergy. 
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Yeah, but this basically screws Ice Tankers, no have almost NO resistance, and all defense. Now they have MUCH less defense because their stacked armors will not help them.
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Well, that's not entirely true. You're still getting the benefit of the "higher of the two" DEFs. You're lucky they aren't averaged, or worse, taking the "lower of the two".
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, still.
Its been hosing certain toons forever and benefitting others. Now that its hurting some others, the fix "sucks". Not from where I'm sitting, I assure you.
so...
it is VERY important your damage powers do ONE damage type- since targets get the highest defense - having smash/leathal in your attack SUCKS!
go Electricity!
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Dont forget eng blasters. Nems and sky raiders were a real pain for an eng blaster if they got a FF up.
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Hah! No wonder I could never hit sky raiders in a force field with my tentacles... dark+smash. I kept wondering why nobody else had that much of a problem with the FF generators.
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Yeah, but this basically screws Ice Tankers, no have almost NO resistance, and all defense. Now they have MUCH less defense because their stacked armors will not help them.
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No, this is incorrect. Stacked armors are still tremondously useful. The only instance where there will be any change is against a foe who inflicts two different types of damage in the SAME ATTACK. Not an attack chain mind you, but the actual same attack. So the only time an ice tanker may be subject to an increased chance of getting hit is against things like Dark melee attacks, fire or ice sword attacks, and energy blasts. When targetted by several attacks each of which do different kinds of damage, the best defense for each attack will apply.
This change will probably result in ice tankers taking more damage than they did before against certain adversaries, but by no means does it negate stacking or any other defenses. In addition many ATs, including ice tankers, are likely to gain an improvement in their ability to hit certain foes (Frozen fists and ice sword both inflict two types of damage AFAIK).
Another power that will be somewhat reduced in effectiveness against certain attacks are force fields. This is pretty clear from geko's example but again, hardly invalidates any of a bubbler's powers.
Finally, bear in mind that this improved defense, both for mobs and heroes, probably constituted a 'bug'. Thus, any benefit from it was technically an 'exploit', although certainly an unintentional one and blameless one. I suspect that the devs will keep an eye on the performance of certain sets and if this becomes a problem for ice tankers or bubblers, adjust defensive bonuses accordingly.
As I near the end of this I realize stone tankers are probably also somewhat affected, so apply the above to them as well. Did I leave anyone out?
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Yeah, but this basically screws Ice Tankers, no have almost NO resistance, and all defense. Now they have MUCH less defense because their stacked armors will not help them.
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Well, that's not entirely true. You're still getting the benefit of the "higher of the two" DEFs. You're lucky they aren't averaged, or worse, taking the "lower of the two".
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, still.
Its been hosing certain toons forever and benefitting others. Now that its hurting some others, the fix "sucks". Not from where I'm sitting, I assure you.
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What the hell kind of lame answer is that? Fix one, screw the other? Are you always that myopic? It's pretty obvious you've never played an ice tanker, so I don't know why you bothered to reply. How does the higher of the two equate to "stacking armors" which is what the Devs JUST rolled out? Since SO many attacks do smashing/leathal, in addition to other damage types, why not just leave up FA, which has a higher defense that the other armor sets? If the lower defense rating are simply ignored, they serve NO purpose at all, except to drain end faster.
Try to look beyond the end of your own nose the next time you post.
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Are those the real numbers for force field or just used as an example? A while ago a force field defender went on the test server and recorded the frequency of hits against even level minions. He collected data for around 1,000 attacks for each bubble and reported dispersion bubble to be +12.5% defense unslotted and insulation/deflection shield to be +20% defense unslotted. This is the first I've seen of a developer posting numbers for force field and I wanted to make sure that those were the real numbers and not being used as an example? I don't think the site still has his data but I can post the link if you want.
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These were pre-I3 numbers. Defender primaries got a boost in I3 so if we account for the 25% boost at I3 we get 25% / 1.25 = 20% for deflection, and 18.75% / 1.25 = 15% for dispersion (These would be the numbers for controllers now).
I believe the original numbers were wrong on dispersion bubble for some reason, or perhaps it was increased by a bit.
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No, this is incorrect. Stacked armors are still tremondously useful. The only instance where there will be any change is against a foe who inflicts two different types of damage in the SAME ATTACK. Not an attack chain mind you, but the actual same attack. So the only time an ice tanker may be subject to an increased chance of getting hit is against things like Dark melee attacks, fire or ice sword attacks, and energy blasts. When targetted by several attacks each of which do different kinds of damage, the best defense for each attack will apply.
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Thanks for the answer Quickshadow. That is exactly how I perceived the change to effect Ice armor. But the problem is, so many of the attacks do more than one type of damage. I don't think this is a minority, but in fact the vast majority of the attacks, especially at higher levels.
True, a single damage type attack will work exactly as before, but any damage that does multiple damage types is now going to have an much easier time hitting, and when they do hit Ice Tankers, ALL that damage is going to come through. That's a serious isssue.
Wouldn't it be nice if an attack did multiple kinds of damage that it would get defended by the higher defense then resisted by the lower defense?
Nahhh. Thats a bit overpowering for Ice tanks. Just a little
OMG! NERF NERF!
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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Wouldn't it be nice if an attack did multiple kinds of damage that it would get defended by the higher defense then resisted by the lower defense?
Nahhh. Thats a bit overpowering for Ice tanks. Just a little
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Actually, I think the best way would be for each type of damage to be resolves seperatly against each defense type, even from within the same attack. For example, if a fire sword hit stacked Ice armor, the leathal PORTION of that attack would be calculated agaist Frozen Armor, while the fire PORTION of the attack would be calculated against the Wet Ice defense. The results would be that for some attacks that do multiple damage types, sometimes, none of the damage would "hit", all of the damage would "hit", or only certain TYPES of the damage would hit.
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However, if you get hit, you take dull damage.
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TYPO!!!!
That should be "skul damage."
be ready to explain that again in 3 months when everyone forgets.