[ QUOTE ]
Actually, if a boss will appear in a mission, the mission briefing mentions it. Check the text.
[/ QUOTE ]
And yet, one would think the difficulty slider would be enough to make bosses more difficult for those who want them more difficult, leaving the bosses as they are for those of us who die often enough to bosses as it is. That way, those of us who don't have the time to play as powergamers aren't penalized.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Over the course of the fight I popped about 7 greens and 2 shields.
[/ QUOTE ] I would concider a diferant assortment Inspirations.
More Lucks: They last for a minutes and prevent more damage than the Respits heal, if you use enough of them. 2 isn't enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. For some reason I've never picked up the habit of using lots of inspirations in a fight. I'm trying to fix that. At the time I went with what I had. I honestly didn't expect the result I got. Oh well. If you aren't dying, you aren't trying hard enough. 
BTW, I gorram agree!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Over the course of the fight I popped about 7 greens and 2 shields.
[/ QUOTE ] I would concider a diferant assortment Inspirations.
More Lucks: They last for a minutes and prevent more damage than the Respits heal, if you use enough of them. 2 isn't enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. For some reason I've never picked up the habit of using lots of inspirations in a fight. I'm trying to fix that. At the time I went with what I had. I honestly didn't expect the result I got.
[/ QUOTE ] NP. I didn't start out using them either. But ever since they were mentioned, almost 2 years ago now, I've always thought they were ment to help you solo.
At level 43 I have 20 slots for them. 8 Lucks, 4 Rages, 2 Insights, and 2 Disiplines, are what I carry on a mission. Enough to beat 2 "Red" Bosses with 4 slots left over.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh well. If you aren't dying, you aren't trying hard enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
/agreed
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I gorram agree!
[/ QUOTE ] 
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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[ QUOTE ]
Defeat All missions and Named Bosses are the only ones you accually have to fight." Did you miss that? Those are the only 2 times you have to defeat the boss[
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless the boss is in a corridor and you have no stealth, or he's standing close to a glowy.
There are very few times when I've seen a mission text warn me of increased difficulty or the need for a team when it has a generic boss and most of those times the warning has also been given for similar missions that have only LTS, so it's not possible without spoilers to know which missions have bosses and which dont.
Generic bosses can crop up all over the place sometimes, a duo can get a boss in every damned group of mobs sometimes and these changes will make those hard fights for a lot of duos that were created for RP or fun reason rather than powergaming.
Dual-boss missions, especially those where one or both of the bosses are still spawning +1 level, will now not only be impossible or nearly so for a lot of solo characters, they will be that way for a lot of duos and even some trios now, not forgetting that those teams will have other bosses to fight past too.
AVs are the ultimate fights, they are the ends of epic stories and should take herculean effort to stop. These are the huge crossover comicbook finales and world-changing events, foreshadowed for many issues and with the team(s) involved fighting for their lives. Great stuff.
Elite bosses are similar, but don't require crossover stories to pull all the teams together to beat them, a good regular team should beat them in their own comic, maybe even only part of the team because a couple are in hospital from their first meeting with the Elite Boss last issue!
Named Bosses should all be Elite Bosses now IMHO, we ARE usually warned about them and getting a team together, even a small one fits right in with the fact they are usually missions that have some underlying plot or foreshadowing.
Generic bosses should have stayed as they were IMHO, with some of the individual types being tweaked to eliminate any vulnerabilities that were TOO easy, even when soloing. These are the 10 a penny mob bosses, gang lords and military officers that comicbook heroes deal with every episode, even solo. Batman(tm) would take out a few of these in any arc on the way to the elite boss that formed the really tough fight where Robin could save his butt 
If generic bosses are supposed to be so tough no even level hero can take them on then there are simply TOO MANY of them. Walking down a street in Peregrine Island for instance will net you several Fake Nemesis usually with a Warhulk, maybe a Zeus Titan or two, often together or with Gunslinger bosses, Numerous Death Mages, Ringmistresses, Master Illusionists, Rikti Mesmerists and Rikti Chief soldiers. Why do we even bother to fight back?
In comic books, even in the ones centered around a super-team, it's unusual for a hero to be completely unable to do anything worthwhile without calling in the whole team.
Street sweeping is exp, that s all, I and many others dont find that worthwhile, we are here for the story, to do heroic deeds and find a place in history. As things are then all the storyline-driven contact is now becoming team-only. We already had team-only content in the form of TFs and Trials and AV missions, it always seemed a good mix, I often saved up my AV missions so that my friends could join me with them. Now I guess I will have to save up my story arcs and most of my regular missions too. If my friends arent on, or if their aren't the right ATs around to make up a team that can do those missions, I guess I'll just have to grind on the streets, levelling without doing the stories I came to do. Just like in EQ I will be about as heroic as a turnip farmer.
I left those games to come here because I thought I'd found the perfect mix of heroic soloing and epic teaming, where we would make a difference in the game (through the storyline) whether alone or with our friends.
Please don't take that away.
Wolfen.
I have a post about this here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...20103222003987
In which I talk about going into my mission with 4 players (im a lvl 31 blaster) and getting 1 hit killed by a Lesser Devoured My lvl. I'm not talking about solo'g a mission/boss, but even with a 4 man team I died twice trying to fight off mobs of DE with a Boss in the mix. Every mob in the mission had a Lesser Dev Boss in the mix. We added 4 more players and had a full team of 8. At one point we came up the elevators and met a mob of DE with 5 (thats FIVE) Bosses. They killed every one of us before we could even click on the elevator doors 5 feet away. The Bosses kill blasters and scrappers in 1 hit. That doesn't give you a chance to run, especially when 5 of them are on you.
I don't mind making bosses harder to kill, but when they 1 hit kill they seem more like ArchVillians. And when an entire team of 8 players dies 3 times on a mission set for 4 players, and get almost no XP for their trouble it seems like the trouble vs xp is kinda skewed.
If it stays this way, I'm not sure I'll be doing any more missions with DE in them. (and I've completed every story arc up to my level)
Thank you Wolfen_Infinity...
You stated what I could not state. Again thank you.
Runestar
I currently have a lvl 33 GIMPED(UBER GIMPED) energy/energy blaster that CAN get one hit killed by most any boss i come across. But i still solo most of my missions. I mayhave to leave and buy like 9 dmg inspires but i can do it. I do disagree with bosses being made harder the way they were. Just 30 minutes ago i had to snipe (max slotted all dmg) a council boss with a grenade launcher 4 times (along with other dmg) to finally pop it. This is supid. It would make more sence to make them smarter.... not tougher.
Here's my two cents. The difference between bosses and Lts is somewhat odd at the moment. Bosses are more than just noticably harder. I can take on a large group of yellows with a couple orange Lts with my spines scrapper, but put me up against just ONE boss and it is more difficult than that group. I don't mind bosses being harder, but they aren't just harder. They are a little bit too much harder. Most of them seem to be able to hit me for half my HP, sometimes twice in a row. Which, again, sure they are bosses, BUT again the discrepancy (man I just cannot spell) is a little bit too much. Just IMHO, not quitting the game or anything. Luckily I duo most of the time and have been able to deal with bosses with very careful planning.
So, more data:
I took my 28 fire/dev blaster into a Striga Council mission, solo. Most of the mission (at the default setting) was pathetically easy -- single white minions or single yellow LTs. I whacked them with a Fireblast or two and they went down. Lots of running around the map for the scattered foes -- not great XP per minute, certainly, or really interesting at all. I get to the end, there's a glowie chest, I stealth up to it and click it, for the Mission Complete. Just ahead of it is an Archon boss, though (even level to me, so orange con), and I figure, what the heck, let me take it on.
I suck down a bunch of inspirations, toss a smoke grenade, launch an attack, and get pounded and die while the Archon's still pretty much at full health.
Okay, I figure. That was stupid, or at least insufficiently smart. I hospital, I load back up on inspirations, I come back. I take a couple of minutes to lay a path of trip mines, giving myself a way of retreating -- slow, since I have to wait for the mines to recharge. Trip mines have a useful knockback effect as well, very useful for dealing with something closing to melee. I lay down a smoke grenade, which has an acc debuff effect. I suck down lucks, an enrage, an insight, and a discipline (since the Archons have mez powers). I fire up Hasten. I am now about as buffed as I can get, and tactically I'm in fairly good shape, since I also have beanbags (disorient, gotten as a temp power) and web grenade (which roots and slows).
I launch off an attack chain at the Archon, and run away. I suck down a lot of respites (six, I think). He runs into the trip mines, and the knockbacks allow me to survive for long enough to get him to about half health. And then we have a problem, because I am out of trip mines and my holds aren't doing anything. I do have a respite left, and I have most of a bar of health, and then he enters melee with me and I take over 600 points of damage (i.e., more than all of my hitpoints if I had a full bar) before I can even see the attack animations, much less suck a respite.
I give up. I've completed the mission without defeating him, and a bar of debt is enough to dissuade me from trying any further.
My friend logs on, with his scrapper, who's a level below me at 27, and together we go to the next mission. It's got an identical Archon at the end. He takes it down solo, without much trouble, with a little inspiration use. And the rest of the mission is pathetically easy for my group of three.
Whatever the devs intended, I don't think this was it. I certainly hope that this wasn't it, anyway.
Now, I will say that there do seem to be some temp powers in the Striga missions that do help in boss fights, as they do extra damage against a particular type of villain, or a summon, but ultimately there's still a big gulf between "too easy" and "too hard". It's nice that I can finish the mission by skipping the boss, but I don't want to have to skip the boss. I want a fight that is challenging but winnable. Right now I can't get it.
[ QUOTE ]
Well I say lets blame scrappers who boasted for months how they kick around bosses for breakfast and solo Avs easily
All their fault.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never, never, never said that!!!
I'll just parrot what so many are saying with the hope that devs are listening.
The generic bosses are too hard (or too numerous - probably both).
This isn't fun.
I too, last night (someone mentioned the difficulty of Devoured Earth missions with the many many lesser devoured running around) I was in a 3 person mish against Devoured Earth and died 4, yes FOUR times. I won't go into details because everyone is gruesomely familiar with how these scenarios are playing out.
It wasn't fun. 
I'm glad I'm not the only person disgusted by the boss changes... I'm a lvl 36 Energy/Energy blaster, admittedly not the most solo-centric build, but able to handle most of my missions solo. So, I3 hits, I look around for a few mintues and decide to continue with my missions. I get a mission in Crey's Folly to find a computer in an abandoned Crey facility. I zip on over there, and there is an orange Paragon Protector. I buff up, hit aim and build up, and snipe. I peg him, and MAYBE hit him for 15%-20% health, whereas he runs over and rapidly two-shots me into the ground. The first hit did probably 75% of my health, and I turn to start to run and WHAM here is the kill shot. This is just stupid. I'm glad the devs have "fixed" the difficulty in this game. Other posts have it dead on, if you aren't the power gamer, don't even bother to try to solo any more.
Great job devs, I love having my arm bent into playing it the way YOU think I should play it.
I expect that this will be changed back somewhat after enough people get completely put off with these "improvements", but for now a lot of the fun has been sucked out of the game.
And I'm sure we won't see a dev response to this thread unfortunately, as they seem to be quite selective on what they will actually address.
*sneers*
The devs forgot how common bosses are. Any given TF with a good sized group is FULL of them.
For that matter... AV's and Monsters are pretty crazy. Go do the Numina TF. Have fun dying in the final mission... That's all I can say.
That said: These are Statesman's changes and with his attitude, he's going to stick with them.
done.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
[ QUOTE ]
*sneers*
The devs forgot how common bosses are. Any given TF with a good sized group is FULL of them.
For that matter... AV's and Monsters are pretty crazy. Go do the Numina TF. Have fun dying in the final mission... That's all I can say.
That said: These are Statesman's changes and with his attitude, he's going to stick with them.
done.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I hope the datamining they will be doing this weekend for the monday morning meeting prove me right. That's all I have to say.
[ QUOTE ]
*sneers*
The devs forgot how common bosses are. Any given TF with a good sized group is FULL of them.
For that matter... AV's and Monsters are pretty crazy. Go do the Numina TF. Have fun dying in the final mission... That's all I can say.
That said: These are Statesman's changes and with his attitude, he's going to stick with them.
done.
[/ QUOTE ]
Eh, I hope you are wrong and they change up their "improvements" to the game, but I'm not going to hold my breath I suppose... I've been splitting my time between CoH and WoW, I'm probably not going to leave here yet in hopes that they tone things down, but this may bias my time toward WoW more for the time being, and if the devs prove knuckleheaded enough not to listen to us, then I'll vote with my dollars.
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Except for the fact that Statesman has said that ALL ATs should be able to solo, that's almost a good point.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually only part of what I've said. Solo players should always have something to do...I've never said that everything is solo-able (some missions are, others aren't), or that every Archetype can solo as effectively as another.
If a player sees a boss of his level, he should probably get help...
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the update. Goodbye.
Statesman said:
[ QUOTE ]
If a player sees a boss of his level, he should probably get help..
[/ QUOTE ]
So what you are saying is that we are not playing comic book superheroes. While Batman and Superman are able to solo the Joker and Lex Luthor, our heroes can only solo street thugs.
We should be able to at least take on unique, named villains once in a while- solo- so we can actually feel like heroes. I had thought that the purpose of bosses was to give us our own Jokers or Lex Luthors, while ArchVillains were the rare ones that required teaming. Comic book superheroes don't find themselves in over their heads when they take on anything tougher than a common street thug.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Defeat All missions and Named Bosses are the only ones you accually have to fight." Did you miss that? Those are the only 2 times you have to defeat the boss[
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless the boss is in a corridor and you have no stealth, or he's standing close to a glowy.
[/ QUOTE ]
And Statesman isn't forcing you not to take a Stealth power ... you are. And many of the Controller and Defender Powers sets have some form of Stealth/Distracting powers in them .... I wonder why?
Controller Primaries: All before level 25
Fire: Smoke --- It's main use is Stealth
Ice: Artic Air --- Group Stealth
Illusion: Deceive and Superior Invis
Mind Controll: Confuse --- If used before combat the mob will ignore you [Aplies to Deceive also]
That's 4 of the 6 Primaries that a Controller can get.
Defender Primaries:
Darkness: Shadow Fall --- Group Stealth [Only non-Controller Secondary]
Force Field: PFF and Repulsion Field to keep the power hungry madmen at bay.
Kenetics: Repel --- Keep mob at bay
Storm Summoning: Snow Storm --- Group Stealth
Then ther is Concealment and Super Speed from the Power Pools. And sloting Controller Hold powers for longer durations will let you get that last, herd to get to, glowie.
Maybe I should have said "have to defeat" in steed of "have to fight"?
Fight Smarter not Harder.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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[ QUOTE ]
Except for the fact that Statesman has said that ALL ATs should be able to solo, that's almost a good point.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually only part of what I've said. Solo players should always have something to do...I've never said that everything is solo-able (some missions are, others aren't), or that every Archetype can solo as effectively as another.
If a player sees a boss of his level, he should probably get help...
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm in a pretty bad boat at this point because of these changes. I'm 2 bubbles into lvl38 and all my contacts give me the 'See me at level 39' schtick. There's hardly anyone on Protector anymore so it's pretty difficult to get a group together for the 2nd respec trial or finding a group for the Sewers or Eden trials. And please don't say 'Find another server' because I have too much time invested on that one and unless a character transfer option is available, its a moot point.
What am I left with?
Street hunting. Street hunting were pretty much every group of baddies that are even anywhere near profitable (I mainly look for blues with white to orange bosses) for me are no longer manageable.
Crey Protectors and PP's are essentially off-limits. No way am I going near these guys with this upped garbage. Take on Force-Fielders with about 50% more health and increased damage? Hah. Take on guys that 99% are able to get off Moment of Glory / Unstoppable / Elude with scrapper damages? I've already got my third debt badge thank you very much.
Freaks? Take on a Freak tank that can ressurect himself after the difficulty increase? Essentially fighting two bosses? Nope, not happening.
Devouring Earth? I absolutely refuse to fight these things. I had enough of them through the story arcs and the contacts. Hate them with a passion.
What am I left with? I'm too low for Peregrine Island, no one will group with a level 38 they think wants Power Levels. About the only things left are bossless 5th / Council and Circle of Thorns. Both of which only net me less than 100 exp per and at ~1.25 million exp to get to 39, that'll take a loooonnnnggg time. The Abandoned Sewers are a deathtrap. Tried that place, tried sniping / pulling and ended up getting spit on to death.
I hate to say it, but I'm losing faith in this game as well as not having any fun. Logged in twice today and just couldn't bring myself to do anything. I'm very close to closing my account and moving on to something else. I've been here since August 31 and had a great time. I REALLY do not like the direction this game is taking.
Unless some decisions are reversed (and soon) I have a feeling a lot of the casual gamers, those who haven't already left the building, will be mosing on. Statesman, maybe you should eat some crow and admit that this wasn't a good change or well thought out.
Maybe I should give World of Warcraft a try. If it's good enough to hook Tycho and Gabe, then it oughta be good enough for me...
[ QUOTE ]
And I even went on to say "BUT, Defeat All missions and Named Bosses are the only ones you accually have to fight." Did you miss that? Those are the only 2 times you have to defeat the boss.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is disingenuous. Bosses spawn in missions where they must be overcome just to move through the environment.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, if a boss will appear in a mission, the mission briefing mentions it. Check the text.
[/ QUOTE ]
And yet, one would think the difficulty slider would be enough to make bosses more difficult for those who want them more difficult, leaving the bosses as they are for those of us who die often enough to bosses as it is. That way, those of us who don't have the time to play as powergamers aren't penalized.
[/ QUOTE ]
That got said dozens of times in the test server forum.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
[ QUOTE ]
Whatever the devs intended, I don't think this was it. I certainly hope that this wasn't it, anyway.
[/ QUOTE ] You said it yourself that you didn't have to defeat him to finish the mission. Defeating the bad guy wasn't needed to "win the day."
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And I even went on to say "BUT, Defeat All missions and Named Bosses are the only ones you accually have to fight." Did you miss that? Those are the only 2 times you have to defeat the boss.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is disingenuous. Bosses spawn in missions where they must be overcome just to move through the environment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or avoided using powers available to every character.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
-------------------------
[ QUOTE ]
Statesman said:
[ QUOTE ]
If a player sees a boss of his level, he should probably get help..
[/ QUOTE ]
So what you are saying is that we are not playing comic book superheroes. While Batman and Superman are able to solo the Joker and Lex Luthor, our heroes can only solo street thugs.
We should be able to at least take on unique, named villains once in a while- solo- so we can actually feel like heroes. I had thought that the purpose of bosses was to give us our own Jokers or Lex Luthors, while ArchVillains were the rare ones that required teaming. Comic book superheroes don't find themselves in over their heads when they take on anything tougher than a common street thug.
[/ QUOTE ]
And Batman is a Scrapper and Supeman is a Tanker, both better suited to dealing with a Boss. Funny how that works out huh?
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
-------------------------
[ QUOTE ]
Over the course of the fight I popped about 7 greens and 2 shields.
[/ QUOTE ] I would concider a diferant assortment Inspirations.
More Lucks: They last for a minutes and prevent more damage than the Respits heal, if you use enough of them. 2 isn't enough.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
-------------------------