epic power pools will bring doom
By
ajmstilt,
Posted on: 2004-11-10 18:22 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
the first power you open up in these new pools is at lvl 41. Nine levels till 50, do you really think this spells disaster?? It's a POOL power for pete's sake.....POOL POWER...Let people have fun for the last nine levels of there toon before they hit 50 and have to park there toon in a low level zone so people can stare at them in awe 
Mind controllers need damage.
Basically what fire and illusion are the two most cited.
I highly doubt the damage will make them compareable to blaster output.
Scrapper ranged weapons. Long recharge and maybe minor damage with the range.
You think they didn't balance it?
Maybe they cannot be slotted powers.
We have no idea what the term epic would comprise or what comprisimsizes would be used.
Repulsion Field for blasters okay that will help them solo and survive in teams a lot better but that has a hellish end cost and draws agro like crazy. So no mr. i don't need anybody to help me against these two boss pairs or av or monster.
You guys ever get a temp power that you ordinarly wouldn't get in your AT? Scrapper's get an energy torrent range attack, or ice armor temp power, etc? Fun huh?
Did it unbalance the game? Nope. Make people not group? Nope.
This will be a little more granted, since they will be permenant and slotable, but the same. A scrapper with throwing stars will still be a scrapper, and will still act like a scrapper in a group.
It will be ok....
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You know what I think is funny? People are getting so upset at some of this but it's only effecting the 40+ game. It's not like there are going to be ultra powerful heroes leveling up quicker now.
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Especially since the exp requirements at those levels are totally pathetically way over the top ridiculous large.
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You guys ever get a temp power that you ordinarly wouldn't get in your AT? Scrapper's get an energy torrent range attack, or ice armor temp power, etc? Fun huh?
Did it unbalance the game? Nope. Make people not group? Nope.
This will be a little more granted, since they will be permenant and slotable, but the same. A scrapper with throwing stars will still be a scrapper, and will still act like a scrapper in a group.
It will be ok....
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omg please tell me your not serious. I'm not saying its game breaking, but if you don't think having ranged and a hold attack will change their entire way of gaming, then you aren't playing your characters well. I would take full advantage of that situation, using ranged first to take out my ranged enemies or put them on the ground, once thats done its hold I get to melee and its all over...thank you, goodnight.
-Scion
Only two powers from each set was listed. So it is not known how many new powers there actually are. Also some powers may only be available to the mobs until now or from the new power sets coming in future expansions.
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Let's sing the song of Doom!
Doom.Doom.Doom.Doom.....
(shameless Invader Zim reference)
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Posts like this by the lead dev are why i will never be able to leave this game. 
( see avatar)
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You guys ever get a temp power that you ordinarly wouldn't get in your AT? Scrapper's get an energy torrent range attack, or ice armor temp power, etc? Fun huh?
Did it unbalance the game? Nope. Make people not group? Nope.
This will be a little more granted, since they will be permenant and slotable, but the same. A scrapper with throwing stars will still be a scrapper, and will still act like a scrapper in a group.
It will be ok....
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omg please tell me your not serious. I'm not saying its game breaking, but if you don't think having ranged and a hold attack will change their entire way of gaming, then you aren't playing your characters well. I would take full advantage of that situation, using ranged first to take out my ranged enemies or put them on the ground, once thats done its hold I get to melee and its all over...thank you, goodnight.
-Scion
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So are you calling for a nerf of the spines set? I have two ranged attacks in my powerset (impale and throw spines). I start off by throwing impale at my enemies..if they run I stop them with impale..and it slows them or stops them for a bit as well.
thanks dude 
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Dude, in the 40+ game, blasters NEED defenses.
And unless they are the level of Scrapper defenses, they will not break anything, except maybe the jaws of the villians.
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I got my blaster to 50.
He had no defense other than his team
He didn't even have hasten.
The word "NEED" makes your statement untrue.
-rain
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ok, so i just read the update on the epic power pools, and i have to say i think they will be very very bad.
the impression that i got from the given descriptions was that they are undoing the weakness of the classes. granted, this doesn't happen until level 41, but still.
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Dude, get above level 35 and then come and talk to me. The game gets VERY challenging above 35 for many archetypes and these things just help reintroduce the fun back into the game. Blasters at upper levels can't even shoot anything above a lieutenant because they get one-shotted to death. It makes you not want to play any more - the epic pools will help make it tolerable and fun again. The same goes for the other stuff.
And DESIRE to group makes for a much better experience than REQUIREMENT to group. Anytime I group with folks who WANT to, fighting goes much better than with folks that HAVE to group. Forcing grouping doesn't improve the experience of the game. These power pools will!
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Let's sing the song of Doom!
Doom.Doom.Doom.Doom.....
(shameless Invader Zim reference)
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That's just embarassing... 
Appearantly even Statesgoon now flames people who post on these boards. Advice: come play WoW with me.
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ok, so i just read the update on the epic power pools, and i have to say i think they will be very very bad.
the impression that i got from the given descriptions was that they are undoing the weakness of the classes. granted, this doesn't happen until level 41, but still.
giving blasters force shields and other defensive powers?
giving controllers damage dealing powers?
tankers and scrappers with ranged attacks?
defenders with... very vague description...
who thought it would be a good idea to try and soften or even nullify the biggest weakness of the classes?????
issue 2: group or die
issue 3: sorry about issue 2, now your character can do everything, no need to even speak to another player
allow me to say i love this game. i love the content, the graphics, the sound effects, hell i don't even mind that the game seems harder after issue two. and i've been super excited about epic and prestige stuff.... but these new power pools, seem destructive to the games social structure, and seems like pandering to the powergaming munchkins that think their toon should never have debt.
heck i'd rather see an epic power pool have lame powers with cool story/rp elements than this. like a light power that allows you to see better in caves, or a radar power that lets you know where mobs are. but i firmly believe that a blaster should never have a force field on him unless it was put there by someone else, and i never wanna see beams of energy coming from tankers and scrappers. 
these just seem poorly thought out
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Actually, you've got it backwards... the new Epic AT can't do anything unless they are in a 8 man team. Their powers are directly linked to how many people they are grouped with.
They don't promote soloing, they force teaming...
Well they are not forcing grouping, just adding more incentives to group.
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You guys ever get a temp power that you ordinarly wouldn't get in your AT? Scrapper's get an energy torrent range attack, or ice armor temp power, etc? Fun huh?
Did it unbalance the game? Nope. Make people not group? Nope.
This will be a little more granted, since they will be permenant and slotable, but the same. A scrapper with throwing stars will still be a scrapper, and will still act like a scrapper in a group.
It will be ok....
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omg please tell me your not serious. I'm not saying its game breaking, but if you don't think having ranged and a hold attack will change their entire way of gaming, then you aren't playing your characters well. I would take full advantage of that situation, using ranged first to take out my ranged enemies or put them on the ground, once thats done its hold I get to melee and its all over...thank you, goodnight.
-Scion
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use ranged first to take out your ranged enemies? sounds exactly something a blaster would say. as a scrapper, your primary powers will almost certainly be more powerful than any pool power attacks you see, even epics. not rushing into melee range is ludicrous for a scrapper- these will be for hitting runners, etc., and the chance that a shuriken would be even half as powerful as my impale or throw spines is doubtful.
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Let's sing the song of Doom!
Doom.Doom.Doom.Doom.....
(shameless Invader Zim reference)
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That's just embarassing...
Appearantly even Statesgoon now flames people who post on these boards. Advice: come play WoW with me.
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How bout you just get a head start on er'
Don't worry we are all RIGHHHHHHT behind you. 
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You guys ever get a temp power that you ordinarly wouldn't get in your AT? Scrapper's get an energy torrent range attack, or ice armor temp power, etc? Fun huh?
Did it unbalance the game? Nope. Make people not group? Nope.
This will be a little more granted, since they will be permenant and slotable, but the same. A scrapper with throwing stars will still be a scrapper, and will still act like a scrapper in a group.
It will be ok....
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omg please tell me your not serious. I'm not saying its game breaking, but if you don't think having ranged and a hold attack will change their entire way of gaming, then you aren't playing your characters well. I would take full advantage of that situation, using ranged first to take out my ranged enemies or put them on the ground, once thats done its hold I get to melee and its all over...thank you, goodnight.
-Scion
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See you just said it too, it's not game breaking.
Scion, it'll be ok... I promise, scrappers will still be scrappers, blasters will still be blasters.
I made a comparison to temp powers because a temp power can be outside of what said AT normally would get access too. Did you use the temp power you just received? Sure, it was fun, different, did you throw your entire technique that you developed playing your character for 10, 20, 30, 40 levels out the window because of a temp power? No way.
It'll be ok, the game will survive, it might even be more fun!
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giving blasters force shields and other defensive powers?
giving controllers damage dealing powers?
tankers and scrappers with ranged attacks?
defenders with... very vague description...
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Human sacrifice, dogs and cats, living together... mass "hysteria!"
(Sorry - don't mean to cut on you - just reminded me of that quote )
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Taking blasters as a first example being that I have a level 50 one, giving a blaster force bubbles is a rediculous imbalance of power. As it has already been stated, giving sets that offset the major weaknesses of the classes pretty much destroys the point of having archetypes at all.
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If what you and the op are saying are true, then the game has already destroyed the point of having archetypes. All AT's can get a boost to their defenses, get some resistances and increase their damage. According to your and the op, the only power pools should be travel and fitness and nothing else or make the other power pools were only the AT's that already have the benefits that they give to a hero.
The post that I have seen on teaming a grouping have made me feel that the only way to make people like yourself happy is to make teaming and grouping required from the first day of your career to your last. You could not even street hunt by yourself, because the streets would be too dangerous. Then they could ask a question, how many heroes does it take to beat a minion? Four, one to do the smackdown the other three to show him how it is done.
I forgot were I read it, but there was a post that I feel that is how this game should be for all. He basically said that he likes this game because it makes him feel like Captain America that is also part of the Avengers. His hero has his own adventures and his is still part of his supergroup that has it's own adventures.
If teaming and grouping is that important to you that it should be the further adventures of the team or group, why even bother about naming your hero. Just give your hero a number and make him a member of a team or group. I do agree that there are parts of this game that should require a team such as TF and trial missions, not everything.
Ebony Fists: Level 50 DM/Regen Scrapper, Gloom Piston Robotics/Dark mastermind level 34, QueenFireMare: Level 34 Fire blaster (pure fire),
Okay...
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giving blasters force shields and other defensive powers?
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If a blaster gets to level 40, they have most likely already availed themselves of pools that provide some defense, Hover, Stealth, Hasten, or taken Health and Stamina to compensate for the lack of defense also tough, and weave, or even leadership. as long as a blaster cannot suddenly cast bubbles on others, I don't think this will unbalance the game horribly, or make bubbler Defs and controllers obsolete, but when you can get one-shotted by some even level minions, how are you helping your team?
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giving controllers damage dealing powers?
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I'm sorry but you have clearly never teamed with a high level controller who has phaton army or Phantasm or any pet really, they can do massive damage already and by 40 they are already doing it.
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tankers and scrappers with ranged attacks?
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well, if the tanker or scrapper on the team is all that stands between a ranged runner and my death from a shot in the back cause I was busy shooting things off of him from 20 feet up and didn't see the runner, then yes please let the melee AT shoot the gut without losing his stuck-in- place armor, especially when there are comets or sharpshooters around a corner that can target the team but are target blocked from me.
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defenders with... very vague description...
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Basically the defenders sound like they are going to be able to take the Blaster support (secondary) sets. I think that'd be okay, I can't see a problom with that. They would be able to solo more effectively, and maybe that would stop the "I can't level without a team" feeling
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issue 2: group or die
issue 3: sorry about issue 2, now your character can do everything, no need to even speak to another player
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well unless you bought your character on e-bay, or powerleveled your way to 40 in a two days, you would have to be pretty shallow to suddenly stop being friends or teaming with people you'd spent 40 levels playing with. Once you get up this high, you have either already perfected a solo playing style that suits you fine, and never team anyway, or you have made or joined a nice, big, friend filled SG, that you can fight with and team with and chat with. Just because I can suddenly protect myself a little better does not mean I don't want to team with the defenders is my SG, I hit better, for more damage and live longer when teamed with them, and I have more fun, cause my SG is full of great people to play with. So Idon't think this point holds any water.
If you are a strong solo player and hate teaming, you have play 40 levels through solo, than Kudos to you for making it solo, here's a treat for the last 10 levels of the game.
I fyou already team, you won't suddenly stop because you have a laser beam you can shoot from your eyes, or can put a bubble around yourself. as a matter of fact when I read the descriptions I immediatly thought about the AT in my SG and how much each person would like this or how it would help when we did team.. I for one hang back and shoot and our healers feel obligated to run back and heal me, I have gone out of my way to try to make so they don't have to worry about me so much and can concentrate on the melee area, A bubble would be a nice extra towards that goal.
I know too much babbling, sorry...
I agree with you totally. I have had a good group experience because of this, and this has caused me to make my own supergroup called Platoo Barata Nickto. I have used an altered phrase from a classic movie The Day The Earth Stood Still, because my blaster is based on the what if Klatoo the main character in the movie had super powers and came to paragon city.
Ebony Fists: Level 50 DM/Regen Scrapper, Gloom Piston Robotics/Dark mastermind level 34, QueenFireMare: Level 34 Fire blaster (pure fire),
my 2 cents...
I have more than just a fire/dev blaster, but i can say that for sure, once my blaster got in his 40's, all the powers i had to get after that were from power pools cus he needs every little bit he can get to protect from getting held. That's the biggest most worrysome thing for him.
Granted, a blaster is low armoured, high damaged, and has less health at 50 than a tanker at 10....maybe exagerated but regardless..... I can understand keeping the blaster gimed as he is if certain game conditions didn't exist as they do at the moment.....
For one thing, If i lay out some tripmines to trap a mob, and i do an attack to get their attention, I sometimes might have to run away cus i'm simply going to die, and at lvl 48 i mean simply a 44 carnie can "capture" me so easily it's not even funny.
But say i set up for the battle for 3 or 4 minutes easy, that's time invested whether i attack right away or set up for one. That's the same as jumping in and scrapping them. I set up and i attack and hide, well the hiding crap don't work most of the time, cus once they agro i can run 2 blocks away and have a building between me and them and they still hit me and quite possibly hold me which then they can run up heal up and take me out at their leisure. The hiding thing works less than half of the time for sure, between server and client lag, it's almost totally unfeasable to work this way.
The other big problem is say, i lay out a successful trap lay them all to waste - if i stray to far from the capture zone, i get no credit for taking out a say, zeus titan, or a cot mage....u get the idea, you get rid of them and no badge credit at all. But if you stay in the area, you are pretty screwed.
So i'm not saying i should be invincible, but hell all i got after 38 was all power pool stuff like tough, weave, acrobatics....i got friggen 10 toggle powers - sometimes i have to use all, sometimes just like ....8
But seriously, at lvl 50 should a lvl 46 carnie be able to punk you? with tough, weave, acrobatics, smoke grenade, cloaking device, combat jumping, and super speed - all turned on , doesn't it seem a little resonable that a lvl 44 carnie illusionist not be able to mez me long enough to remez be before it wears off and the mins all take me out?
What's the point of those powers if they don't all stack and make some worthwhile barrier?
Will this new epic power pool actually help me out so i can ditch these powers that hardly work?
Is it not resonable for a high lvl player to have access to powers and abilities his AT shouldn't have early on?
What's the point of hitting 50 if there is no icing on the cake?
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issue 2: group or die
issue 3: sorry about issue 2, now your character can do everything, no need to even speak to another player
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I don't think you're on target with that statement. Just because a blaster (for example) can protect himself better, it doesn't mean he can handle every situation----regardless of the odds. Teaming will still take place.
But lets say for the sake of argument, that you were right. So what? OMG. A player isn't FORCED to team with other players. Not everyone likes being forced to do that. Sometimes you like to hang out with others. Other times, you want to be alone. Why should your gaming experience be gimped because you don't want to play with some other player? Why would that be so terrible? And please don't give me the old tired statement, "if you don't want to play with other players, then don't play online." There are other reasons to play online. Continuous updated content.
I just fail to see the logic in forcing players to play with each other (if they don't want to). Let all players choose their own paths.
Good heavens, boohoo.
I usually stick with more mature sentiments, but come on, people. Adding some of the basic attacks/defenses from other ATs to those of us who made it all the way to level 41 is not gonna bring doom. It's gonna bring me much excitement to finally let loose with an energy blast from my controller after 500 hours of having LIFT be my damage power. I'm hardly going to put blasters out of business.
Will I be more able to solo? A little bit, thank god, although it's simply a matter of speed since I can solo in complete safety behind my pets anyway. To those who say that mixing this up a little will destroy the need to group, I simply offer this thought. The first epic power is at level 41. Are you telling me you played a character all the way to level 41 and now either A) you grouped the whole time, but made no friends that you would still group with now that you could solo better or B) you never made friends to play with for 41 levels and now you'll never be able to do so? Come off it. People group because they want to play with their friends, and pretty much every AT can already solo post 32. This ruins nothing, it just offers some really cool options to make your hero EPIC in a range where most of us were stuck with the powers we didn't care about for the first 40 levels. I say BRAVO to Cryptic on this one.
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On a side note, i'd be kinda PO'ed as a DM Scrapper, since arguably their single best power in the entire line, is being given as a pool power (Soul drain), that's like giving my Fulcrum or Transference as a pool power. I'd be pretty pissed off.
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Nope... not PO'ed at all... take Soul Drain... it's great for me because I *can* jump into the middle of a huge group. It would rock for Tanks (while giving them some great damage...).
I can get Focused Accuracy. Hell... I'll let you take Dark Consumption, Soul Drain, and Shadow Maul for this alone... (and hoping beyond hope there is another ranged attack besides Energy Torrent in Body Mastery.)
The Caf-Fiend (lvl 45 DM/SR)
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Let's sing the song of Doom!
Doom.Doom.Doom.Doom.....
(shameless Invader Zim reference)
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ALL HAIL THE TALLEST!