epic power pools will bring doom
By
ajmstilt,
Posted on: 2004-11-10 18:22 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Let's sing the song of Doom!
Doom.Doom.Doom.Doom.....
(shameless Invader Zim reference)
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ROTFLAO
If I only had more room in my sig!
Erm .. Fighting/Scrappers really has no correlation that I see 
And, i'm not saying that all of them will be uber. All of the ones now aren't, but Provoke has shown me, and the recent regression back /to/ the original provoke by allowing recharge enhancements, that while the Dev team does a bang-up job on the par, there are still things that get thru.
Though, at least provoke still isn't auto hit like it was before. (big difference), but yes, I am very paranoid about some stuff like that after suffering as a controller with the original provoke. Really, if you didn't play a controller during that time, I really dont think you can fully understand just how sucky it was.
On a side note, i'd be kinda PO'ed as a DM Scrapper, since arguably their single best power in the entire line, is being given as a pool power (Soul drain), that's like giving my Fulcrum or Transference as a pool power. I'd be pretty pissed off.
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Yay! INTJs dancing in the streets!
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Heh. Hubby is wondering why I just sprayed Coke all over the monitor. 
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INTJs secretly rule the world. Quietly, of course
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"No, not everyone will get it. But the right people will." -- Joel Hodgson, MST3K 
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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giving blasters force shields and other defensive powers?
giving controllers damage dealing powers?
tankers and scrappers with ranged attacks?
defenders with... very vague description...
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LOL
Ever been one shotted through a shield?
Most controllers have damage capacity at 32.
Tankers and Scrappers have melee...so do blasters...
Defenders defending...what a novel idea.
Honestly, lets all sing the Doom song and stop over-reacting. 
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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I think this is the fear that your forgetting about. Bubbles on Forcefield Defenders are freaking uber 40+. Controller Bubbles, whcih are watered down, are freaking Uber. The 'how much' is a bit, is what has some people worried I believe.
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You do realise that with Personal Force Field (the only bubble mentioned) up, you can't use powers other than ones on yourself, right? Right?
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Let's sing the song of Doom!
Doom.Doom.Doom.Doom.....
(shameless Invader Zim reference)
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*tear* I think I am going to cry, devs with Invader Zim references. Did I die and go to heaven?
But, invader's blood marches through my veins! Like giant radioactive rubber pants!
The pants command me!
Do not ignore my veins!
(god i miss that show)
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It'll let us step out of roles just that little, and that's fun. It ain't gamebreaking.
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Frankly, I'm in favour of just about anything that helps to keep CoH from just being "EQ with a coat of spandex paint".
I just like making comic book super-heroes with cool, comic book powers. The closer the game stays to that, the happier I am.
As long as we have something interesting to contribute to a Team, and can also still kick bad guy butt all by ourselves (in true comic book fashion), I don't see a problem.
Silas Dark - Magic Scrapper
Blurg - Science Tanker
Quantium X - Mutation Controller
Grey 17 - Natural Defender
Santabot - Technology Blaster
[i]"City of Heroes is at its best as a Superhero game that's implemented as an MMO, rather than as an MMO that just happens to be about Superheroes..."[/i]
Ohhh, Ohhh
I want a "Piggy Hunter" mini game
Heh... I only see one problem with the Epic Pools...
Blaster pools are fire/cold/energy/devices...
I'm electric/electric... with all 18 powers, yet the defenders are gonna get electric armor? I'd kill for electric armor!
Who do I have to talk to to get electric mastery moved over?
The thing that matters most to me is "Will I still have a role in teams?" I don't care if Blasters and others can solo better now? Good for them, I'm glad for them and it doesn't affect me.
Now, will I seek a TF team and have the leader say "Sorry, we don't need a tank...we've got a blaster with Fire shield" No way, I'll still have a role. Likewise, no blaster is gonna get denied a slot because a scrapper has shurikens or a controller get kicked because the Defenders got Mass Hypnosis.
FAO OP
have you ever considered that these powers are being given to AT's to balance them somewhat in preparation for PVP?
oh and the upcoming white con mob boost <gulp>
You... referenced... Invader Zim.... I LOVE YOU!!!! I'm wearing an Invader Zim sweat band right now, don't ask why, I don't even know. And I just recently bought volume 3 of the dvds thus completing my collection of all the episodes. This had made an official.....
Statesman fanboi!!!!!
The lesson is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions.
Actually, Repulsion Bubble was also mentioned, but yes, I do know that the personal bubble does that. What i'm afraid of are the two other un-mentioned bubbles, but i'm not saying it's going to suck. It will probably be great, just saying the prospect of possibilities make me nervous is all.
But trust me, i'm reserving judgement till the actual product Far from a know it all. I can be wrong just like anyone else
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Yay! INTJs dancing in the streets!
Oh, wait... you mean the defenses my Blaster is getting means that an AV will kill him in 3 shots instead of 2? Um... any healers around? Hello?
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As an INXP (The X means I was so evenly split between T and F that even the major test which you have to pay an expert to take couldn't figure out which of the two I was), I have to say...
You INTJs can rule the world all you want, just don't bother me while you're doing it.
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Yay! INTJs dancing in the streets!
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I dunno, dancing is a little too social for me. 
* sighs * ..."why couldn't I have been an SP?" 
Anyhoo, bring on those epic power pools. They will most
certainly make the game more comic-book-ish.
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Who do I have to talk to to get electric mastery moved over?
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PM Statesman through the forum? He's responded to one of mine before - you might get lucky.
This post has gotten long so this may be stated later on, but unless they are giving blasters Dispersion Bubble the force field set won't help them kill everything they see. Personal Force Field and Repulsion Field were mentioned. Repulsion Field is a nice 'keep away' power but it can suck endurance. Personal Force Field is incredible protection, but you can't attack with it. Aside from travel or "I'm gonna die!" moments the best use I've found for PFF is to pop it after my Atomic Blast and wait out the end drain.
Phase Shift has been available to blasters since day one and in the long run, it's a superior PFF. As a bubble defender I'm not worried about blasters getting some of my powers. They truly seem to need it post 40.
Sadly none of the epic pools for defenders look that useful to me but they do only list 2 of 4 powers for each. Maybe the energy based one will give power boost. Then my Energy Blaster friends and I can play skyscrapper tennis with bad guys!
On the other hand, I can see a good use for Fireball with my tank. What tanker wouldn't want another provoke.
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Heh... I only see one problem with the Epic Pools...
Blaster pools are fire/cold/energy/devices...
I'm electric/electric... with all 18 powers, yet the defenders are gonna get electric armor? I'd kill for electric armor!
Who do I have to talk to to get electric mastery moved over?
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This is actually a really good point. Goes to character concept and answers the RPG portion of the acronym this game started out with... MMORPG...
I think this should be pushed and I'm not even an elec blaster...
>>Invader Zim references
I still like Godzilla sitting on the Thunder Throne and "winged potatoes, furry potatoes..." better.
I'm pretty pleased at the epic power pools on the whole. I doubt they'll break the game. After all, they're power pool, not a primary or secondary power so we can assume that they will be somewhat weaker.
One thing that does disappoint me is that most of these are not new powers, just recycled old powers. That doesn't totally scream "epic" to me. Some of the new ones are related to already really powerful sets while the recycled ones are part of regular evenly placed sets.
I didn't think devices needed anything else, but I certainly won't complain about getting it =3
Regardless, I'd still have rather seen new powers added to each set. Two completely new powers per line.
Oh well, perhaps way down the road on Issue six when they raise the level cap (pure speculation, no inside info).
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"Blasters:
Blasters can choose from four new Epic Power Pools, with an eye towards defense and control. Cold Mastery has such powers as Flash Freeze. Force Mastery gives access to Personal Force Field and Repulsion Field. Flame Mastery has Fire Shield, and ultimately Rise of the Phoenix. Finally, Munitions Mastery is an all new power, which includes Body Armor and a Sleep Grenade."
Anyone else notice that there are no electric power pools??
When will electric blasters start to get some loving.......
Actually doom, is not far from the truth.
I do believe this is poorly thought out, and although I can feel the flames of posts from the fan club who would praise a power that would let one polish a turd as long as its a new power, I think people really need to sit down and think about this.
Taking blasters as a first example being that I have a level 50 one, giving a blaster force bubbles is a rediculous imbalance of power. As it has already been stated, giving sets that offset the major weaknesses of the classes pretty much destroys the point of having archetypes at all. A better idea would have been giving additional powers that accessorize the archetype without taking away drastically from its weaknesses. For example a blaster would have been much better off with regen as a pool which would help out with their stamina and health issues especially tied in with fitness but still allows for them to take great amounts of damage and have to use their heads to keep from getting killed outright.
Now take controllers. Giving them damage output in the level 41+ range is like throwing gas on a fire. When they needed it was back at their earlier levels when they couldn't solo a mission no matter what they tried even though just about every other arch out there could.
Oh and then theres the scrappers, if there was any question about their ability in pvp before...which I definately think that they are far too overconfident considering the strengths of other archetypes over their weaknesses...i.e. such as melee vs. ranged...now all bets are off. With a hold ability, a ranged ability (powerful at that...remember the shurikens thrown by ninjas in some of the AV missions? Holy crap..ouch!), and their natural ability to do massive damage (and don't forget crits) in melee...its not hard to guess who is going to dominate. I can hear the nerf screams already.
So whats the answer? The answer is to do a hard look at whats currently out there and what real problems each of the archetypes has today. If you want to bandaid something, don't let it be a weakness that was purposely built into an archetype that made it different from another, bandaid the other problems that changes has caused such as the increased difficulty of lower level mobs that have now sidelined the controller, look at what could be done to support characters to make them more attractive in a group environment rather than what your about to do which is make them less needed...hell basically with the new thought process everyone should be able to solo everything..who needs groups?, look at accentuating existing strengths or slightly improving upon weaknesses without taking it away entirely. One of the major things that makes Superman boring is that he has one stupid weakness, where characters like the x-men have to depend upon one another for their strengths when going against the really tough opponents which makes them more attractive to readers.
Now I'm not suggesting that people should have to group all the time by any means, but I'm also not suggesting that we should all be a bunch of solo vigilantes either. Theres a happy medium to be found if you just get creative...and that goes double when thinking about new epic powers.
Other issues to consider is that if a level 50 character respeced and made any mistakes or chose their travel power last for whatever reason, etc and they are only able to change those last 4 powers as of 41+ then its not really an option for them as their choice is either to give up their travel or give up their epic powers. So another full respec is a must for them...in fact, taking away an entire pool power from a character is definately going to have an impact, then again perhaps it will make for some interesting choices amongs the archs...who knows.
But again...please don't just throw something out there...think about it first, thats all I'm asking.
-Scion
It's not the idea that counts. It's the implentation. If the epic power pools are overpowered, well that's bad. If not, then okay. Who's tested these things yet?
I should say my own little thing that a lot of people post on these boards that the games to hard yadda yadda yadda. And is this an instance of the devs pandering to them? This gives me pause. The most FUN I've had in this game was on respec trials and sewer trials. The fun factor is the challenge factor.