Offline SG Members in Bases!
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2004-10-28 16:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
That would be cool. Base Defenses, and you can have an SG pool of Influence and someone with a "Leader" Rank can spend it, to purchase Cannons, or Motion Sensors etc.
Maybe an Auto Alert, so if your online (Even in a mission, and the base is attacked, the base informs you of the invasion, and you can fly, teleport etc. to get there and help defend.
I also think, NPC teams invading your base would be cool. I also hope, that the searching for team option, won't let Villians know where Heroes are and vice versa. Otherwise, if you know that Hero X, is the main power behind this SG you want to invade, you would just wait till he is offline, or Several Zones away, to invade.
Could an offline SG members act as an NPC, and not accrue debt if they are defeated? In other words, they can provide "minimal" support to the base, but the owner doesn't get debt when/if their character was defeated while they were away.
I like the idea of hiring guard NPC's with influence. Nice suggestion.
I assume (but could be wrong in this) that base raids will be a different "mode" from normal "just hanging around" mode. You could have logged-off heroes present in "normal" mode for scenery purposes, and only have the logged in members present for an actual Versus raid.
@Mindshadow
Ok, how many times have we watched a Bond movie, where he meets Q at the secret base, and there are guys training in the background, practicing their moves, etc. How about some random NPC heroes going through the motions. The code would be similar to the NPC bad guys doing stuff on the streets (hijacking cars, playing tug of war with purse holding citizens, etc)
-K
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with off-line characters being present in the base is what happens if the base is raided (by players or possibly PvE, who knows)? Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
Servants on the other hand is an interesting idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quick thought here.
How about players have the option of functioning as "offline base defense." What I mean is that a player could choose to allow there character to be handled by the AI is defense of the base when they are offline. They can only be defeated once and they only get one load of debt.
It seems to me that many seige style MMORPGs have some short of turret/static/NPC base defense system. This does not make so much sense in CoH, I would imagine that huge heavy turrets would be illegal even for heros, however allowing offline character to perfrom the same function would be cool.
Depending on how base defense work maybe they could even get a little boost to their powers, since seiges are inherently hard, and they will be function under a stupid AI.
SUMMARY FOR EASY DEV CONSUMPTION: OFFLINE HEROES CAN STILL WORK GREAT! NEW AND IMPROVED, IN FACT!
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with off-line characters being present in the base is what happens if the base is raided (by players or possibly PvE, who knows)? Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
Servants on the other hand is an interesting idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow! Thanks for the response, Lord_Recluse!
I hope that your initial "eh, that doesn't seem workable at first glance" reaction doesn't mean that you won't continue to consider it as we keep spinning it around here.
Egos_Shadow said it pretty well:
[ QUOTE ]
I assume (but could be wrong in this) that base raids will be a different "mode" from normal "just hanging around" mode. You could have logged-off heroes present in "normal" mode for scenery purposes, and only have the logged in members present for an actual Versus raid.
[/ QUOTE ]
With all the talk about consensual-only PvP, my assumption is that if you are just going to your base to put stuff in the vault, write on the message board, or whatever other features bases will have, you won't suddenly be plunged into PvP with no warning. When a PvP base mission happens, it is therefore going to be instanced, right? So, during such an attack, simply don't spawn offline PCs in the instanced version of the base. Servants or agents can be there, sure, whether as mob support or as chicken-with-head-cut-off window dressing.
[ QUOTE ]
(by players or possibly PvE, who knows)
[/ QUOTE ]
Aha! I didn't see this the first time through! Sorry if I spoil any surprises but of COURSE there will be PvE ambush-type attacks in bases! This would be trickier but still doable. Actually it will make it more cinematic! Check it out:
Normally, the HQ is a fairly active place. Heroes here and there, agents maybe, secretaries, what-have-you. Of course, the lives of heroes are busy and unpredictable ones, and often times an HQ will be pretty much empty (think of Iron Man at Avengers Mansion after a meeting, ruminating that he has no other life to go back to). Naturally, if a bunch of ninjas want to bushwhack somebody, or a major villain wants to stage a kidnapping, they will naturally target the HQ as the only place that they can be sure the hero will show up at sooner or later. Likewise, they will observe the comings and goings of the other heroes, and will have a good idea of when nobody else is around. THESE times will be the times that they choose to strike.
To reflect this, the offline hero presence will fluctuate dramatically (after all, we can't expect these extraordinary people to spend most of their time mooning around at home) throughout the course of the day. Only some of the time (20% or so?) will the majority of the group actually be present - most of the rest of the time, there will be a "medium" staffing level - a few random members around watching the Trouble Alarm or whatever (and I like the idea of guys stopping what they're doing and leaving the base periodically, or other guys showing up at random - though this might be harder to code than it is worth). Occasionally (20% again?), the place will be pretty much empty. You might come in the front door and no heroes will be around. You leave the reception area and go to the inner sanctum and there are just one or two capes in the rec room watching TV. Passing by them, you head down to the lab to test the new plague samples you just picked up from some hapless Vahz. It will be during moments like this (with no offline heroes on-camera) that the ambushes (or whatever) will spring! (And if you run back to the TV room for help, the offline heroes in there will have discreetly gone to bed or left to go patrol (i.e. despawned) while they were 'off-camera'.) If you keep HQs 'abandoned' 20% of the time anyway, the ambushes will still be a surprise.
Ambushes right now do a great job of spawning off-camera. No reason that offline offline SG members couldn't despawn in the same way!
Re: servants: yeah, cool idea there as well. I am actually pretty much assuming that decent-sized or high-level villain SGs will be entitled to have SMG-toting minions swarming around in their bases all the time. Superheroes don't seem to really pack in hordes of agents, though, traditioinally (though a case could be made).
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
[/ QUOTE ]
Me? Absolutely. I have no problem with this at all. I would consider this to be a 'team-up' type of hero situation, where my guy was just a sidekick to the featured (online) hero (or a super-tough mentor type that the newbs in the SG come running to when some ambush is whipping them - kind of the HQ equivalent of Police Drones, only cooler and personalized! Hm!). Please, by all means, make me a full-fledged mob NPC when I am offline, whenever you want to. I realize, however, that this is probably a minority view, so unless there is a huge groundswell of support for, I agree that you should probably forget allowing offline characters to participate in fights. But see above and keep them in the HQs!
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with off-line characters being present in the base is what happens if the base is raided (by players or possibly PvE, who knows)? Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
[/ QUOTE ]
This argument still seems dumb to me. NPCs on the street do weird things like disappear in thin air or police get mugged by thugs or mekmen act like hostages.
This is all about cool window dressing. Even if the heroes don't act in normal ways, it would be cool.
Yes! YES!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
[/ QUOTE ]
Me? Absolutely. I have no problem with this at all. I would consider this to be a 'team-up' type of hero situation, where my guy was just a sidekick to the featured (online) hero (or a super-tough mentor type that the newbs in the SG come running to when some ambush is whipping them - kind of the HQ equivalent of Police Drones, only cooler and personalized! Hm!). Please, by all means, make me a full-fledged mob NPC when I am offline, whenever you want to. I realize, however, that this is probably a minority view, so unless there is a huge groundswell of support for, I agree that you should probably forget allowing offline characters to participate in fights. But see above and keep them in the HQs!
[/ QUOTE ]
That's an interesting idea -- player characters behave randomly when the user is offline, but turn into pets if the base is ambushed.
I've always assumed PvE base attacks would be similar to ambushes today -- the number of villains (or heroes invading the Brotherhood of Naughty Ne'er-do-wells' HQ) would spawn to match the number of members present. If every SG member is there, it would make for some wicked-cool epic battles.
Edit: The idea of disabling xp & debt for offline heroes is a tidy solution.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: The idea of disabling xp & debt for offline heroes is a tidy solution.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah - for the record - my assumption this whole time has been that when you are offline, you get 0 xp and 0 debt.* You are just there to look cool and make your SG members feel cool. The costume creator (and what I have done with it) is so awesome, I just want all my characters strutting around like living trophies all the time. Then again, I also like the suggestion above of enabling your character as a "defense turret" when you are offline. Hey, I can go either way with offline combat status, and would love to see "fully functional" offline hero participation. I can just see how that opens up several cases of cans of worms.
*Though I lovvve the idea of still being at HQ while offline sooo much, I'd happily endure permadebt on all my characters if Lord_Recluse will make it happen! I'm serious!
Speaking of trophies - a hall of portraits, with mug shots of all the members lining the walls, and statues of a few of the highest-level members, is a neat idea, too ... but it would be better to see the members themselves, hanging around playing ping-pong and baking cakes when they're not out fighting crime. Portraits/statues in the trophy hall just seem a little ... vain ... for superheroes. Villains, well, of course they should be all over it. Villain SG leaders, at least, will probably demand graven images of themselves.
[ QUOTE ]
I want to see my offline SG mates sparring in the training hall, lounging in the rec room, tinkering with the defensive cannons, monitoring the security cameras and/or the citywide comm network, arguing in the conference room, watching TV, playing poker, and maybe even cooking up a little dinner for their hardworking (online) compatriots. Heck, how cool would it be to see two of your own alts working together in the crime lab?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, that is a badass idea!
It'd be a [censored] to program, but it'd be so cool! (and it'd make it so that SG members are kinda assigned stuff to do when they're offline..
"i wanna be the chef!"
"You're always the chef! Be a scientist!"
"Guard! Let me be a guard then!"
(i'm giving your stars)
It'd be cool if we could choose what our heroes do, if they go that way. My android hero would be parked in his recharge cradle, for instance, while my villain would be practicing his kitten juggling. Mwa-ha-ha-ha!
Although I do prefer going the servants route, the more I think about it. Servants as pets (or even self-directed analogues to police drones) to help stave off attacks is just a better gameplay solution, to my mind.
To get around the vanity issue as well as aiding immersion, it would be cool if there were security monitors throughout HQs "monitoring" the actions of your SGmates, whether online or off. For heroes it could be called something like the "Trouble Monitor" while villains would refer to it as the "World Domination Tracker." Randomly cycle through various members -- they don't even have to actually have done whatever's being shown on the screen.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
I'd like to see offline characters in a cryogenic storage type setup, or a barracks. If there is a raid... well, they are either frozen in a tube and thus out of the way, or the villains have sealed them in the barracks area.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with off-line characters being present in the base is what happens if the base is raided (by players or possibly PvE, who knows)? Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
Servants on the other hand is an interesting idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point however easily solvable. Give each player the option at logout to either be there or not. That way if the risk of coming back defeated is all his.
Already we see characters standing around AFK, esppecially at trains, but few complain much when the come back to find themselves defeated, cause they didn't factor in the ambush which appeared past the drones or the guy running to the exit/train/mission was being followed by 20 something villians. even Police drones cant instantly defeat that many before damage is done.
As a choice, I could allow myself to be in the position of possible defeat or I could decide i dont want to risk it at all.
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
You could make it so only heroes who log off inside their HQ are present when offline, and available to defend the base. You could also mabye add 1 room that if players log off in they do not defend the base, mabye have the heroes shown, but in tubes(storywise each player could decide if the tube was suspended animation, a recharging area, or some kind of rejuvination tube). This way if a player logs off anywere in the city, they are not available to defend the base, and when they log on they won't disapear from inside the base, since they were never there.
I think xp debt is a good risk for being able to defend your base, but I think if you get full debt per death you should also get xp for kills. If your hero dies defending the base your hero doesn't re-apear until you log on again.
I'll said it once and I'll say it again this is a great idea, offline heroes or servents/guards anything to fill those empty bases
And again, all this talk of base defense, debt, xp and so forth is really extraneous. The most important thing is just the visual. If the offline SG members hang around in the base but don't do anything more than other NPCs in the game, it would still be awesome and would have no complications.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with off-line characters being present in the base is what happens if the base is raided (by players or possibly PvE, who knows)? Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
Servants on the other hand is an interesting idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe giving players the CHOICE of whether to do this or not? Like a button you can select or de-select. (Could be the PvP switch)
This is a fantastic idea. I hope that one way or another, Lord_Recluse impliments it.
On Justice:
Aufheben, level 50 MA/SR Natural Scrapper
Ansetsuken, level 39 MA/SR Natural Stalker
Member of the Experts of Justice / Chaos Crew
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with off-line characters being present in the base is what happens if the base is raided (by players or possibly PvE, who knows)? Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
Servants on the other hand is an interesting idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was always under the impression that there will be no drawback to being defeated in PvP. even if there is there should not be in this case because the player is in fact a 'npc'.
after the last 'invader' leaves the player is auto rezzed, and starts cleaning up the joint.
no harm no fowl.
if the player logs in during the middle of a raid, the character fades out (like after a quit) then fades in where ever they log in at.
I dont know when you posted this before but I'm mad that I missed yer previous post!!!
This is a fantastic idea I give ya stars big time. I would love to see off line toons just hangin around. The idea of having them in a locked area that's unavailable to raiders is great! I dont think having offline npcs battle would nessecarily be a bad thing. Why would they have to get any debt at all? They are functioning as npcs at the time anyway. So have em running around looking busy during the atk fixing doors or something they wouldnt have to fight in the fight.
Or if there is a locked area like bedrooms than bam problem solved. Only mbrs of the SG could go in there anyway and we could see ppl in there wandering around going from room to room, or stopping in a restroom for once (lord knows all the ones I've visited have been locked so far in the game)
If this idea is passed up then it'll be a terrible shame.
Actually, as far as coolness goes, I wouldn't even mind if base raids had "fake battles". In other words, offline members of the SG could be fighting "fake" enemies that can't be targeted. It would again be window dressing that would make the whole event more immersive and "totally awesome". It would ratchet up the adrenaline to feel like you are in a larger battle. Granted, this carries the potential confusion of trying to attack enemies that aren't real, but consider this: it could even reflect overall status of the fight. As the raid was lost, your offline heroes might be going down or surrounded by 2-3 guys. If the raid were being defeated, you could see the offline guys mopping up.
OK OK. This again adds complexity. But I am just saying: nothing needs to be modelled for reality as I understand it. What I think Zombra means (and certainly how I feel) is that it would be cool *looking* even if it had no actual effect on the game to have these offline characters hanging around. Improves immersion, roleplaying etc etc etc...
What about old X-Men style:
Every base has a secret area beneath the floor, and NPC's could be shown working on it in a camera or it could be accessible to guild members through some secret passage?
I hope they do add the ability to pay for a secret area which can house different fun things.. I'd love to have a usual, cool looking base, then underneath 'Morlock Haven' -like area that's just above the sewers.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with off-line characters being present in the base is what happens if the base is raided (by players or possibly PvE, who knows)? Do you really want to come back on and find out your hero was defeated while you were away?
[/ QUOTE ]
Simple: Don't make it raidable.
You know what I'd really like to see...PvE defense against raids.
In other words...Turrets, NPC's that fight to protect the base (helpers rather then the SG members), Mines, Motion Sensor Alarms....OH MY!!!!! I WANT IT ALL!!!!
::drools::