Why must Exemplar-ing suck?
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2004-10-02 18:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I still haven't tried exemplaring yet, so here's my question:
If you have NO DEBT, is it worth it to exemplar to build your influence? I've got a character in the low 20s where I can just start buying SOs, and it's EXPENSIVE at this level. I'm constantly running out, and nowhere near equipped to where I'd like to be.
Will exemplaring be worth it for the influence, or should I just stick to missions and farming at my current level?
I love the Exampler tool not only does it let me get rid of my debt in a way shorter time despite what some of these other people seem to think. It also lets me pretty much level my friends at a much faster rate with no risk to them or me since at any time I can just un RSK and kill what ever is threating us.
This lets us breaze threw missions with a full group where if I wanted to sidekick I would need an equal number of highs to lows where last night we just had 7 people with lvls 1-5 and my lvl 32 blaster. In about 20 minutes they all were around 5-8 because I could just blast threw the mobs since all my attacks are six slotted.
With the new Mission exp bonus this works perfect it also lets me get badges without killing low level mobs for nothing. Once I can do TF's I will be able to finish off most of my badges and get my friends Alts into their high teens.
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I still haven't tried exemplaring yet, so here's my question:
If you have NO DEBT, is it worth it to exemplar to build your influence? I've got a character in the low 20s where I can just start buying SOs, and it's EXPENSIVE at this level. I'm constantly running out, and nowhere near equipped to where I'd like to be.
Will exemplaring be worth it for the influence, or should I just stick to missions and farming at my current level?
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If your goal is to get influence, you're better off finding some mobs with high drop rates and selling the enhancements.
Liberty
Ultimate Arcane La Alma, Keeper of Secrets - Magic Mind/Kin Controller 31
Protector
Egypticus - Tech FF/Psy Def 19
Virtue
Sir Coranus - Magic Broad/Regen Scrap 16
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If your goal is to get influence, you're better off finding some mobs with high drop rates and selling the enhancements.
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Thanks. That answers that.
I'd like to point out one thing about the Run bug. There are times, though it must suck if you're street sweeping and a melee combat hero, that it is a good thing...
In missions, it makes it much easier to break up a large group of whatever if the exemplar runs in and smacks one of them, causing them all to scatter and run, and allowing us to pick them off one or two at a time.
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Why not let us pay off our debt and gain influence? Then when we weren't in debt, give us 2x influence for being an Exemplar. Otherwise it seems there's a very narrow use for the system.
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As I understand it, the intention of the developers was to give exemplaring a very narrow use. Basically it is a tool that allows you to group with more than one person when they are much lower in levels than you are. To keep up with friends that you outleveled, for example, and you'd just as soon play your main instead of roll up an alt.
Under those circumstances, the 100% exp-to-debt-removal and 100% exp-to-influence-otherwise are just extra benefits. I don't reverse-SK to remove debt, I can do that much faster by soloing at my own level. I rSK to group with friends who are too low, or to help a single low-level friend complete missions and story arcs. After they update it I'll rSK to help low-level friends with Task Forces.
If they ever update it to include exp gain that'll be fine with me, it'll be just one more benefit on top of the main benefit that I get, which is the one the devs intended.
My issue with Exemplar is the fact you do not gain influence at all until you get out of debt.
I would think that when you take down a mob, you get the xp towards debt reductions as well as the influence. Otherwise, it is much more advantageous to just run around street hunting because you get 1/2 debt reduction plus influence per mob beaten versus just full debt reduction and no influence.
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Some clarifications:
1. You get XP debt reduced at 2x your real level's debt removal rate, not your exemplar level's debt removal rate. If you have no debt, the real level XP is turned into Influence.
2. You do not get any enhancements while you are an exemplar.
Some upcoming fixes:
1. You will be able to do old TFs by exemplaring.
2. Bad will not run away from exemplars.
The code for these has been written and is on its way through QA and into a patch. Stay tuned.
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Gaining back debt is a great thing and all, and the fix to enemy agressiveness will help, but getting full level debt when exemplared down makes being an exemplar down stop being fun the moment that debt that was -almost- paid off becomes a huge pile.
it encourages players to cheap-out and hit the unexemplar button during a rough fight, or in the case of a delay, before a boss battle. Exemplar debt really should be at the new exemplar level.
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Devs, is there a reason why there's no logical reason to Exemplar, other than to *maybe* pick up a couple badges for missions?
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There is! It's called "Having fun!" and "Being able to play with multiple lower level friends!"
Yes, I wish we got some kind of xp advancement when exemplar'ing too. 
Couple things to add,
You are NOT advancing when exemplared even if your paying off debt. If you have 10000 xp and you die you will have 10000 xp and 2000 debt(for example) after you work off all your debt as an exemplar you will still have only 10000 xp and no debt, just where you were when you started. Dying on purpose so you can work off the debt as exemplar gets you nowhere. You might as well be getting inf.
Also, there isnt supposed to be a 'reward' for exemplaring. Working off debt at 100% is nice but technically its not any better then hunting normally. Its a penalty not a reward.
edit: Furthermore, theres actually less risk then hunting normally. Sure you get debt as normal but you also get xp as normal. The game is supposed to get harder with advanced levels so your hunting at an easier level, and also while it lowers your powerset to what you had at that level(not a penalty, thats what you would have had anyway) it doesnt take away slots. It reduces them in power but its still the equivelent of having 6 SOs at whatever level you would have been even if you couldnt use SOs or didnt have that many slots at that point.
Exemplaring is fine how it is
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Furthermore, theres actually less risk then hunting normally. Sure you get debt as normal but you also get xp as normal.
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do we have numbers on this? I seem to work off debt much quicker on my level 4 character than on my 22 or 32. In fact, I seem to level much quicker. So one death at, for example, level 30 will take how many kills to clear the debt? vs one death at level 8? Level 8 has proportionately less debt from dying. (I'd love to know if someone has the exact numbers.) With both characters fighting at level 8, if the 32 exemplar dies they get worse debt than a natural 8 would. This, I think, is unfair, and makes it a little too risky to give up your powers.
But I agree with what many people are saying: there should be no mathematical advantage to exemplaring. If there was, you might as well remove levels from people instead of assigning debt. I just think that with the added risk of getting more debt, and the inability to work on your own missions (while it seems I'm already outleveling too much content) that it's not worth the trouble.
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Some upcoming fixes:
1. You will be able to do old TFs by exemplaring.
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So in order for our group to do a lower-level TF, we need to find an equal number of people to be aspirants for us? What will happen if an aspirant drops?
Katsuki - 50 DM/Inv | Akari - 50 Fire/Fire blaster
Hazuki - 50 WS | Satsuki - 50 Ill/Rad | Miharu 50 Stalker
Its true that you get relatively more debt at the higher levels then you would at lower levels but you could consider that to be balanced by the fact that you know the game better and should be better at avoiding death =)
It does suck that you get so much debt when dying exemplared, especially since it can totally undo any debt removal you had done so far, however when exemplaring you should consider that and plan your hunt accordingly. Do something you would be able to handle at that level and play it safe.
What REALLY sucks about RSK is the runners. Yeah try to fighting COTS RSK in a lair and try to chase them with yer SJ shut off. Now that makes me go up a wall.
The only thing I am hoping for with RSK for TFS is the following.
1. You do get XP and Influ for doing the TF.
(That would just suck if I run through the TF getting nothing but influ.)
2. I hope the Devs Devised a system that once you are RSK for a TF it's locked in until you click QUIT, TF was Failed, and or TF was completed.
( I certainly don't want to do a TF with other Reversed SK peoples and end up entering the mission and having to leave to do some other higher drop his RSK and finish the mission and we go on are merry way doing this through out the whole TF.)
RSK is good. I am happy now that I can play with my boyfreind in his 32 level misions. Yeah the influ sucks and I don't get no drops. But hey look at this way, I rather know now I am getting at least something and seeing Colors on baddies instead of greys and actually having fun and not being bored.
Before RSK it was run passed those baddies FAR lower then you get the blinkie or whatever and move on. It's far more of a challenge to run into a lower level mission and fight your way through just as you would for you missions.
In any case I look foward to RSK for TFS, Just please fix them from running from me. That would suck if they ran from you on the TFS 
Cheers~
~RSK Just needs some love and some understandment most of all be pacient, in due time RSK will kick butt~
I agree that Exemplar status should allow you to retain your powers in a watered down form.
It'd make the feature much more popular.
Jesus, you people want everything, and wrapped in a bow.
Exemplaring is the best way for me to mitigate debt on my defenders and controllers. Debt burns off =much= faster than soloing or even-con teaming.
Exemplaring also earns good influence. I'm getting double the influence for an orange boss as exemplar than I would playing regular.
Exemplaring is fun and nervously exciting. You're playing your character like you did in the old days, without all your uber powers and toggles. You have to use tactics, you can't just sit pretty and blow everything away. Keeps me on the edge of my seat, let me tell you.
Exemplaring also forces you to choose your respec powers carefully. Heh heh.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
actually my joke of PDR can work. join in a team of 2 lowbies, RSK to the lower level one, have him stand with you, and use your mighty 1 mil + inf as power for payment for someone to kill for you all. even on a team of 3, it's still fast, especially if you are going to be afk. if you have 2 accounts, this can be done remarkably easy.
~Draco
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Some clarifications:
1. You get XP debt reduced at 2x your real level's debt removal rate, not your exemplar level's debt removal rate. If you have no debt, the real level XP is turned into Influence.
2. You do not get any enhancements while you are an exemplar.
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To preface this, I am in love with the exemplar system, I think its one of the best additions to this game. when you get 90K debt on your level 32 blaster, its a godsend to be able to exemplar down a little with a friend instead of SKing him and knock your debt down like crazy.
However, I think it would be nice if you would get the Debt reduction and Influence, like you would if you were simply getting full XP. but thats a minor thing, we all know influence means almost nothing at the higher levels.
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2. You do not get any enhancements while you are an exemplar.
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oh one question though, I was exemplared last night for 3 or so missions and didnt recieve any enhancements, but neither did the guy that ReverseSKed me. is that working like it should?
I love the exemplar system for playing with lower level friends. My only wish is that instead of losing all powers gained after the level you exemplared down to, you lost access to powers that were restricted to above that level. For instance, Tachyon Trinity has Hover, Fly, and Recall Friend (and got Recall friend at 24.) If I exemplared down to 6 to help a friend in hte Hollows, I'd prefer to still have Hover and Recall Friend (since both are allowed at level 6) while not having Fly or my higher level powers.
I'd prefer it if the RSK system worked like the SK system, where I kept all my powers and such, just reduced in effectiveness to the new level and with all enhancement effects temporarily disabled. That, to me, would better reflect the "feel" of "Ok, I'm going to hold back so you my young friend can also get credit and learn something from thee battles!" But in general, I RSK for one reason, and one reason only: to play with friends I couldn't otherwise.
Who knows though, I have a few K in debt on my blaster, maybe I'll ask one of my lowbie friends if I can RSK with them and see how it goes.
As an alternative to gaining nothing but influence when debt is eliminated, what if experience, influence,and enhancements were gained as if you were that level, but the amount of exeperience needed to level remained the same? Personally I prefer the "reduce debt as if 100% of xp earned at my SL level was received", but I could see the merit in the other approach.
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Some upcoming fixes:
1. You will be able to do old TFs by exemplaring.
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YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait
I exemplared for the first time last night. My 30 Emp Def had 14k of debt. I joined a team with a 24 blaster and a 24 tank, they exmp'd me to 24. We did one door mission (of theirs) and two streethunt (kill xxx tsoo) type missions. All told about 1 and 1/2 hours of time. These were friends so I enjoyed teaming with them. At the end of the time, I had only 3000 debt left. Seemed worthwhile to me.
RSK should allow 2 things.
1) Completion of old missions (TFs, Trials, and Normals).
2) A way to work off debt and gain influence.
Nothing else.
Sidekicking someone should give them temporary access to higher level skills just like examplar takes skills away.
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Some clarifications:
1. You get XP debt reduced at 2x your real level's debt removal rate, not your exemplar level's debt removal rate. If you have no debt, the real level XP is turned into Influence.
2. You do not get any enhancements while you are an exemplar.
Some upcoming fixes:
1. You will be able to do old TFs by exemplaring.
2. Bad will not run away from exemplars.
The code for these has been written and is on its way through QA and into a patch. Stay tuned.
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The fixes sound great. I actually thought #2 was going to be in one of the last few patches - should have been a trivial change.
There's one more bug you're overlooking. At least, I believe it's a bug. If you die while you're an exemplar, you get debt as if you were playing your normal level. This seems wrong.
I also believe you should get level-appropriate enhancements while you're an exemplar.
Yes, I get that it's supposed to be a social thing more than anything else, but being able to help your friend on their lower level missions doesn't quite make up for everything else you give up to be an exemplar, IMHO.