Why must Exemplar-ing suck?
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2004-10-02 18:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I agree that exemplars need to retain their full powerset.
If they don't, that's just plain retarded, because they don't get experience either.
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They are already more powerful than everyone else because those fewer powers have more slots in them than a "normal" hero of that level. If they still had access to all of their powers then that would grossly overbalance the low-level game.
"Having trouble with your 10th level Vahz mission? No problem, I'll just turn on my Cloaking Device, Super Speed over to the boss, place a few Trip Mines, go Full Auto on them, and then Flame Thrower anyone that is left over. Why don't all six of you grab a sandwich and watch me. I'll be done in a minute. What's that you say? Will my endurance hold out? No problem. My six-slotted Stamina has got it covered." 
Dwimble
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I agree that exemplars need to retain their full powerset.
If they don't, that's just plain retarded, because they don't get experience either.
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They are already more powerful than everyone else because those fewer powers have more slots in them than a "normal" hero of that level. If they still had access to all of their powers then that would grossly overbalance the low-level game.
"Having trouble with your 10th level Vahz mission? No problem, I'll just turn on my Cloaking Device, Super Speed over to the boss, place a few Trip Mines, go Full Auto on them, and then Flame Thrower anyone that is left over. Why don't all six of you grab a sandwich and watch me. I'll be done in a minute."
Dwimble
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Lol, yeah I'd love to be able to use Oppresive Gloom on some low level Vahz just so they could get a taste of how annoying their bosses really are 
Edited so I sound like I actually speak English as my only language
The only bad thing about RSKing that I can see (other than the TFs but that will hopefully be implemented soon) is if your a person who respeced themselves like I did.
So I can slot the things I want and needed slotted early on like with my main I went and respeced myself into gimpy the clown pre level 20 (after level 20 I'm fine and dandy but before it pretty bad) because I took all the power pools I needed slotted such as fitness and hasten and my main attacks that I use the most (including nova and explosive blast) are six slotted leaving my attacks that are available to me at pre 20 and that I dont use much at my level are pretty bad. And they are not slotted like they were when I was that level. Making it complicated for me to really help my friend if they are a pre 20. but it is a great thing if you just want debt relief or dont want to level.
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Lol, yeah I'd love to be able to use Oppresive Gloom on some low level Vahz just for so they could get a taste of how annoying their bosses really are
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HA! Or Hurricane, Hurl, or Fire Imps right back at one of the new low-level Outcasts or Trolls in the Hollows. I admit it is a bit tempting, isn't it?
Dwimble
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...I went and respeced myself into gimpy the clown pre level 20...
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Hmm, "Gimpy the Clown". I think I see a new character in my future. 
Dwimble
Ive been having a ball with my lvl 44 scrapper and have gone down to lvl 11.....yeah it got hairy a couple of times but iwas a lot of fun. In fact it was some of the most fun i have had in a long time. The bust Freezeburn mission was much funner with my main rsk'd than with my alt i did it with...and to top it off i got to remember what life was like pre IH.....etc. The added bonus was I did not get any xp but could still play my main without getting even further ahead of my friends who due to work schedule changes can not play with me as much nor as long when they do get to play.
Exemplaring doesn't suck.
Case in point: a few days ago a horrible TF left my then-level 29 scrapper over 50k in debt; I had an almost-full purple bar and three purple bubbles. I never thought I'd crawl out of that hole - and understandably so, because I was whacking white-con minions and netting something like 40xp and 40 debt per kill.
Later that day I exemplared down to a level 13 friend who needed help with some Vahz missions and to my great surprise I was paying off something like 150 debt per minion. Where three hours of soloing had cleared maybe 1 1/3 bars of debt, less than ninety minutes with my buddy cleared the remainder in its entirety. It was astonishing. Not only was I out of the hole, but I then sk'ed him and hit 30 a couple hours later. (I regret to say that I may possibly have spammed my friends and SG channels with cries of "BOO-YA!" when this happened.) Point is, I was initially skeptical but am now a firm believer. Give it a shot next time you're trapped in the slough of despond and see if it doesn't feel like a miracle cure.
-Guardian-
Crimson Archon - 50 bs/inv scrapper
-Protector-
The Stain - 40 dark/dark corruptor
Astro-Avenger - 47 ss/inv tanker
The Scarlet Spectre - 26 ill/storm controller
The key thing missing from the exemplaring system is that you aren't allowed to do past TFs. Until they put this in I really don't see the point, except it makes it MUCh harder to consider respecs because you have to spend 3 times longer planning out everything just in case you DO Ex.
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Being an exemplar doesn't suck.
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word! I mean you pay off debt at your actual level. So if I have 40k of debt I can help a level 12 with some 2-3 doors and pay off all of my debt. The run bug sucks...but I can pay off debt and help a noob at the same time! This is wonderful....
150k debt paid in 3 missions while RS'ked. (took about 45 minutes total)
Who said examplaring sucks ? Basically, if you go and join the "perez noob-debt squad" of course the risk is too high for the reward, but if you group with friends and/or SG members lower players, this can be really helpfull (debt-cleaning) and also for missions badges.
Now if they can fix it so we can do TF's again :P
I like the exemplar system. My RL bestest friend can't play much (demanding job, kids, etc.), while I can play LOTS (blissfully life-free), so I have 4 characters (42, 34, 25, and 18) that are all higher than his two (17 and 8). Every once in a while, I SK him to help with one of my missions, just to show him the higher-level content, but I don't want to ruin the game for him, so we have been doing RSK since the feature came in. (Mind you, that's a few hours a week.) I don't care if I get exactly nothing from RSK. I'd still do it, to play with my friend.
wanna hear something crazy? I level faster as an exemplar.
As a 36, I exemplar down with a bunch of folks in my SG in the 20's and we go off and do missions. I make sure I'm good and set with a ton of debt. As an exemplar I'm basically advancing as if I didn't even have any of that debt in the first place.
The trade off? no influence... boo hoo. In my 30's I consistantly have about 4-6 mil more influence than I'll ever need for my next full set of SO's. No sweat of my back.
What happenes when I get out of Debt? "hey look over there, a big nasty pack of purples, I'll be right back..." It's not entirely impossible to get yourself back into debt, try hard enough and you will.
Screw capes, screw auras. If you ask me, Exemplaring is the greatest thing about this last patch.
Agreed, it'd be nice if you got perhaps the debt of the level you're ex'd down to when you are defeated, though....
EDIT: same 1 minute reward buffer on this as with the rest of the stuff
what does it matter? You're working it off as if you had no debt in the first place, the more debt the merrier.
Well, you've been reduced in effectiveness from a level 40 to a level 20, even your enhancements are toned down, so why, while exemplar'd, should you get the debt of a level 40?
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Yeah, I can also play with my friends if I either SK them, or roll a new toon to level up with them. Both are better options to my mind than using the Exemplar system.
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Well that depends on a few things. If you are level 20 and your friends are level 5 I guess rolling up an alt to team with them is fine. If your main is level 26 and your friends are level 15 to 19 then it isn't as easy. And of course, if you'd rather play your main while you team with your friends, rolling up an alt is a non-option.
I agree that SKing typically gives better rewards, and if you have one friend that you can SK, it's probably the better option for faster leveling. I can kill much faster at 26 with an SKed friend than I can by dropping down to level 15. So usually if I duo with a lower-level friend, we SK. But to complete her missions it's nice to be able to rSK and either work off some debt or pick up some extra influence while we do it.
The only real problem I have with rSK is the one where low level mobs scatter like roaches when you attack, because they treat you according to your actual level. Once they fix that I have no problems with rSK as it is. If they did improve it, that would be icing on the cake.
Getting more debt as an exemplar is actually beneficial.
Let me put it this way; If you are in debt as an exemplar, your xp raises as normal, just as if you weren't exemplared and debt-free. Therefore having more debt as an exemplar means more time spent leveling as normal rather then being an exemplar, debt-free, and gaining no xp at all.
Exemplaring is the "Magic Wand" that turns debt into experiece. More debt is a reward as an exemplar. Getting debt as if you were the lower level is counter productive. You have to go and get yourself KO'd much more often, even to the point where you're wasting more time getting KO'd then you are leveling. I'd rather get 20k debt off of one KO then ten.
To have fun with my friends this is what I do. If I didn't then it would be back to soloing or sitting around and waiting for just the right members of my SG to come on.
The thing is, paying off debt is a false reward.
Having debt doesn't prevent me from advancing, or gaining infulence along the way. IF debt had some other drawback than slower advancement, then the Exemplar "reward" might mean something.
Why not let us pay off our debt and gain influence? Then when we weren't in debt, give us 2x influence for being an Exemplar. Otherwise it seems there's a very narrow use for the system.
If you read my original post, nowhere do I say I'll ever refuse to Exemplar someone. I also take note that it's the only way to get mission badges you might have missed.
I don't count it for the "Defeat 100 X" badges, since you can get those without being an Exemplar... easier in fact.
All I'm saying is that I think some changes could be made to make it more attractive without unbalancing the game for your Aspirant.
Edited to say: I *really* don't understand the people who are getting purposely in debt to Exemplar longer... If you pay off your debt, wouldn't you rather have the influence than pay off your self-imposed debt?
Some clarifications:
1. You get XP debt reduced at 2x your real level's debt removal rate, not your exemplar level's debt removal rate. If you have no debt, the real level XP is turned into Influence.
2. You do not get any enhancements while you are an exemplar.
Some upcoming fixes:
1. You will be able to do old TFs by exemplaring.
2. Bad will not run away from exemplars.
The code for these has been written and is on its way through QA and into a patch. Stay tuned.
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The thing is, paying off debt is a false reward.
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But the thing is, it's not. I know that on paper exemplaring looks rather useless since you're not earning xp, but *in practice* I have found over and over again that in a given period of time - say, four hours - I can clear my debt and then un-exemplar and start earning real XP and end the four hours with MORE TOTAL XP than if I'd stayed at my level and ground out the 50/50 split.
-Guardian-
Crimson Archon - 50 bs/inv scrapper
-Protector-
The Stain - 40 dark/dark corruptor
Astro-Avenger - 47 ss/inv tanker
The Scarlet Spectre - 26 ill/storm controller
everyone's milage with this is going to vary. If influence is a problem with some, then exemplar leveling isn't going to be your thing.
I've already said this before and it's a pretty widely know fact: past level 30 you get more influence than you know what to do with. Unless you're purposefully careless with your influence, you're more than likely going to end up with enough influence to afford your next set of SO's and 4 brand new costumes, and still have enough influence left over for your next set of SO's 5 levels in the future.
With that much influence just sitting around doing nothing, I'd rather exemplar down with 5 or 6 of my friends in the 20's then slug around solo.
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2. Bad will not run away from exemplars.
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WOOT!
I was playing a level 8 alt last night and exemp'd a level 24 defender. What a pain in the boot chasing mobs around.
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My friends will advance just as fast, or faster if they're Sidekicked to me.
How is that selfish?
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Maybe they want to do their story arcs and/or get their couple of mission badges also while gettiung XP?
Yes, they will advance as fast or faster SKed to you, but that will also rush them past content that they will not be able to go back for and story stuff they will never be able to read if they just XP grind SKed to someone else ...
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Getting more debt as an exemplar is actually beneficial.
Let me put it this way; If you are in debt as an exemplar, your xp raises as normal, just as if you weren't exemplared and debt-free. Therefore having more debt as an exemplar means more time spent leveling as normal rather then being an exemplar, debt-free, and gaining no xp at all.
Exemplaring is the "Magic Wand" that turns debt into experiece. More debt is a reward as an exemplar. Getting debt as if you were the lower level is counter productive.
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Actually you're wrong, more debt just means that you have a purple bar, while exemplar'd you NEVER advance towards a level, not a single experience point. In fact, trying to get debt while ex'd is counter productive, as you could be giving away all the extra influence you'd make to your friends.
I don't know what kind of world you're living in where having debt while exemplar'd means you're advancing as normal(this is false), because none of the exp from anything will ever go towards your next level. Ever. Debt or not.
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...going into battle with both hands and one foot tied behind my back doesn't sound fun to me at all. I earned those powers, and I see no reason to give them up...
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Well, actually you aren't going into battle tied up at all. In fact, if you exemplar down to 10th level (for example) you will be better than every other 10th level character in the game because your powers may be fully slotted whereas theirs aren't.
Complaining about the exemplar system is a bit silly. It is a purely voluntary system where you can in effect "pretend" that you are low-level again to play with low-level heroes and do low-level missions. For those for whom the game is all about leveling and xps, acting as an example to a lower level hero for a while is simply not for you. No problem. Go do your high-level stuff.
Now, I DO think that debt should come off TONS faster when RSKed than when not--not just 2x faster since all is going to debt instead of splitting it. Plus, perhaps you could even get some moderate xps instead of none, or maybe you could build up a "debt reserve" to protect you against future defeats. Now THAT would be a better incentive and encourage you to keep playing instead of quiting the team the second your debt is paid off (which some people are inclined to do under the current system).
Even if they leave it exactly as is, it is still fun for some and not for others, as is the case with everything in this game.
Dwimble