Should villians use powers above their level?
By
AkaiRyu,
Posted on: 2004-09-26 10:24 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Villains are notorious rebels, and thus will ignore your vote.
Pity.
I am sorry that powerful opponents like the Leads and Elites kill your immersion (and if you are not careful, your hero too). Superheroes of course always face villains whose powers and capabiltiies are equal to or less than their own. Every time I see that, I just lose my immersion in the story line, myself. Damned writers - what do they think they are doing?
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
Villains = evil = cheaters
They should also get capes at level 1 too 
I assume they're fixing this, because it really does ruin the game, as you say. My level 15 scrapper was fighting a level 15 lieutenant, and got hit with a level 35 attack. Dead in one hit.
Hey man, when I started playing I thought the hellions using Combustion was the coolest thing in the world.
Sure and they should be a challenge. Just my opinion.
Villains follow different rules. Which is cheap, and IMHO makes the higher level powers kind of anticlimactic... OK, NOW I can use that power I've been seeing for the last 10 levels. Yay.
The part that bugs me is the "best of both worlds" mobs. They melee effectively, have good ranged attacks, and even get som eCC, along with a ton of HP. THEY should be the heros, they're much better at fighting than we are.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
what makes me mad, is the player char villans people will make in city of villans won't be able to get above their lvl powers. am i not supposed to be a villan? would my villan not make some deal with whatever dark deity to sell his soul for power beyond measue?
But not before proving yourself, i.e. reaching level 32!
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Do you know this for a fact?
Correct me if I am wrong here, but CoV is in development and the classes and powers have not been released and PvP setup is in mind.
Hard to be certain of anything in regards to CoV.
[ QUOTE ]
Extreme example: If level 1 hellion bosses spawned in atlas, and were summoning fire imps, I'm sure a lot less people would feel excited about the prospect of getting them. (not that anyone in their right mind would dare to level a controller solo without some close friends to play with....)
The fire imps on lead scorchers bugged me a lot, moreso then any of the others.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've fought level 2 Murk Eidolons in Galaxy, who used Oppressive Gloom (level 35 dark armor) and Midnight Grasp (level 32 Dark Melee).
This isn't new to the game.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
At first I thought no.
Then later I thought, yes, because they are villains and they are evil and despicable by nature and cannot help but cheat as much as they can.
Not to mention Level 2 Luminous Eidolons who used the level 35 radiation blast.
Funny, Eidolons were always my favorite bosses.
[ QUOTE ]
But not before proving yourself, i.e. reaching level 32!
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
tell that to the outcast boss frostfire(a lvl what, 12-13) and has jack frost and fire imps. not only 2 powers no hero gets till 20 lvls later, but from 2 powersets that said heroes can't take together. now, if cov ends up being coh with just slightly diffrent window dressing(in other words, i only can get certain powers at set lvls, i can't mix my power sets like the npc villans), then whats the point other than pvp, and why bother buying cov, because i've already got a guy who follows the rules i've been playing for some time. people keep saying villans break the rules, but shouldn't that be the same for player char villans?
Yes, they should. We have increased hp and other goodies. They are just cracked up on Superadine
[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention Level 2 Luminous Eidolons who used the level 35 radiation blast.
Funny, Eidolons were always my favorite bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hates them, but that means I love to punch them. I'd rather not see them altered because their character is heavily influenced by their powers. Just how scary would a Murk be without Oppressive Gloom, really?
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But not before proving yourself, i.e. reaching level 32!
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
tell that to the outcast boss frostfire(a lvl what, 12-13) and has jack frost and fire imps. not only 2 powers no hero gets till 20 lvls later, but from 2 powersets that said heroes can't take together. now, if cov ends up being coh with just slightly diffrent window dressing(in other words, i only can get certain powers at set lvls, i can't mix my power sets like the npc villans), then whats the point other than pvp, and why bother buying cov, because i've already got a guy who follows the rules i've been playing for some time. people keep saying villans break the rules, but shouldn't that be the same for player char villans?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I know, tell that to the damned boss who gets Fire Melee/Fire Blast, tell that to the multitude of other villians who have impossible skill selections.
Villians will have different ATs they said. In other words, different power selections maybe. But I'm sure you won't get nova at level 18 and power blast at 32.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention Level 2 Luminous Eidolons who used the level 35 radiation blast.
Funny, Eidolons were always my favorite bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hates them, but that means I love to punch them. I'd rather not see them altered because their character is heavily influenced by their powers. Just how scary would a Murk be without Oppressive Gloom, really?
[/ QUOTE ]
I miss the low level bosses who fought you with debuffs and (avoidable) status effects instead of super massive damage. But I guess I'm just crazy.
I vote Yes.
SuperVillains are sometimes faced down by more than 1 hero, if they were 100% equal and using no powers above their own level, it would make a dull fast fight for a group of Heros.
Since the Supervillains are controlled by the computer, letting them have powers above what their level is allowed, somewhat makes up for the fact that they can not think on their feet so to speak as well as a hero controlled by a thinking person, they need some form of an extra edge.
Many villains in comicbooks always seem to be more powerful than the heros that they fight. This makes it much more 'heroic' for the Heros when they do triumph over whatever villain they are fighting by using their head or a better strategy.
There is nothing very heroic about beating up some villain with 5 SuperHeros that any 1 of them could have done alone, this is one of the reasons I like AVs and Monsters in my missions 
Some of those troll bosses seem to have fly with no -acc. Mmmmm
I'm more worried about Lead Scorchers or Shockers who also cast Heal on their minions.... What the heck kind of power set is THAT? That's utterly unfair, since not one of us can create a character who can zapp AND heal.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
[ QUOTE ]
I'm more worried about Lead Scorchers or Shockers who also cast Heal on their minions.... What the heck kind of power set is THAT? That's utterly unfair, since not one of us can create a character who can zapp AND heal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, there are definately no Storm/Elec Defenders in the game at all, that combo just doesn't fit thematically and Defenders can't pick any blasts since they're all just a bunch of whining healers. 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm more worried about Lead Scorchers or Shockers who also cast Heal on their minions.... What the heck kind of power set is THAT? That's utterly unfair, since not one of us can create a character who can zapp AND heal.
[/ QUOTE ]
their heal is O2 boost which is from the storm pool. Then they have elec blast as well (which features tesla cage as it is).
Shockers are actually defender AT Storm/elec.
Torden - Lvl 50 Electric blast / Electric manipulation / Electric mastery Blaster - Triumph
General Thrax - Lvl 50 Mercenaries / Poison / Mace mastery Mastermind - Freedom
Well my rebuttal (to those who say its good because it adds more challenge) is that you can make low level bosses, lieutenants, powerful without giving them high level powers. (and can we PLEASE not use "hurl boulder" as a standard attack for anything without a gun? It does massive ranged damage)
Damned, Bonedaddy's...both were really tough without the need for super high powers.
Also, I think its nice to save some of the high powers for...high level bosses. If a level 14 fire boss is already using fire imps then what will a level 34 or 44 fire boss use? Fire Blast?
Explaination: They're a prestiege archtype where they are allowed jack frost and fire imps for example because they worked hard to be allowed this prestiege archtype. Also for this archtype the skills like those are available at lower levels (for example look at the variety of levels Build up appears at in each skill set). Or maybe they aren't really casting Jack Frost but it's the skill "Lesser Ice Golem" which for the saving of money just used Jack Frost to represent it.
If you want more excuses I'll think of them but in my opinion just accept it as them trying to make the game challenging and enjoy it, nerf them and the game will go from being easy to being a joke (like the respec trial change after day 1).
I vote no
There are two degrees of this villian abuse though, there is the level 5 villian using a level 6/8/10 power (which is bearable) and there is a level 14 villian using level 26/32 powers. (which looks...dumb) the first isn't so bad, but the second is inexcusable.
A lot of people like to discover these powers for themselves. Nothing ruins the feeling of looking forward to high level (unseen) powers like having a villian throw them in your face at level 6. Espiecally for people who don't have a character thats even level 30, so have never seen the cool effects of say, lightning storm or fire imps.
Also, high level powers are generally more powerful, villians using them at low level are incredible difficult to defeat because you don't have the tools to get past them. When level 5 shockers were using hurricane, it was hard to do any damage at all with only training enhancements, a very small inspiration pool and like 1 or 2 attack powers.
I would really like to see high level, powerful powers removed from lowbie villians. Lead scorchers (lvl 14) summoning fire imps, and lead shockers summoing thunderstorms and using thunder strike is just immersion killing and totally unnessecary. With so many powers available to villians already (they can be a fire tanker, fire blaster and fire controller all in one) is it really nessecary to even do this? How do you explain to people that while hero's have to wait till XX to earn the power, villians can use them 20 levels lower?
Maybe the player base has matured a little, and fire imps arn't quite so special to the average poster here, but to a lot of people - they still are, and throwing them around the game willy nilly just lessens their coolness factor.
Extreme example: If level 1 hellion bosses spawned in atlas, and were summoning fire imps, I'm sure a lot less people would feel excited about the prospect of getting them. (not that anyone in their right mind would dare to level a controller solo without some close friends to play with....)
The fire imps on lead scorchers bugged me a lot, moreso then any of the others.