"Forced" Group Missions
By
Alistaire_Caine,
Posted on: 2004-09-10 09:13 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Would it be possible just to select if we want a team based mission every time? I realize that it would require you guys to code an alternate team-based mission for every non-team based mission, but my SG would erect golden idols to all of you dev's if you did something like this.
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Posted by Gothryd:
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Having missions where the only way to solve it is to have 3 people (any 3, just have 3 bodies) on a team is 'forced'. This seems artificial and contrasts too sharply with the rest of the gameplay. Accomplish this mission using X, Y or Z tactics is better than accomplish this mission by having N number of characters.
Plese consider some of the following ideas to add a dynamic to group play:
Have a villain who must not be injured (meaning you need some sort of hold/disorient/sleep to incapacitate her without dealing damage). Innocents who are coerced into being bad guys is a staple of the genre. Stopping them without hurting them is more challenging than blasting them in most cases.
Have a villain in a room with a bomb that he will detonate if he sees any heroes (meaning you need someone with invisibility, some form of grant invisibility, stealth, etc to sneak past). Watch any number of movies and this situation arises. Their finger is on the button.
Have a room that has some bomb to deactivate or some important relic that will be destroyed if you don't retrieve it but that room is on fire, causing enormous amounts of damage to anyone who enters (meaning you need someone like a tank or someone with resist buffs, phase shift, etc)
Have a mission where healing skills (defenders, controllers, anyone with medicine) saves a victim with their healing powers.
Let's have some more missions where brute force is not the only answer. In the above examples, each problem can be overcome using more than one skill/power/tactic.
As the game stands on live, every mission is accomplished by dealing damage. That's it. Every mission today is right up a blaster's or scrapper's alley. What about a mission that is right up a defender's alley or a controller, or a tank?
CoH can be much more than just a 3rd person shooter.
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Awesome ideas. Anything that can help take us away from "Kill first, sort em out later" mentality is good. We're super heroes after all, not everything can be solved by nuking someone. Not all of us are the Punisher or Spawn.
I'd prefer that the multi-tasking missions be moved to TFs and Trials (and for more TFs to be added).
If multi-tasking missions are left in Contacts, they will need an additional XP bonus (or other reward) to make them attractive.
A Contact for group missions behind the Supergroup Registration counter would also be cool.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Thank you
@artphobia
To the best dev team ever: I enjoyed meeting you all at the Summits and best of luck in all your future endeavors.
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Since I wanted to completely agree with Gothryd's post in the now closed "groups vs solo" thread I Will repost his words here. Again I could not agree more on his suggestions, they would push CoH to the next level IMO.
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Oh God, please no. Either those missions would have to be completable without the special AT/Power, they would have to be given ONLY to players WITH the AT/Power or they would be ten times worse than the syncronized bomb missions.
when i heard about this i was apalled have had to hard a time with red boss's and other so called plot twists to make it so i am either forced to group to get thru or level a time or 2 to beat the boss. now i can usualy solo an orange with most of my toons, and sometimes a red, but when that mob can stun/sleep/tendrils of doom, whatever then its about impossible to solo one, as i found out on that deseaed arc, with the zonbies. another arc i will have to get help on the boss, i hate haveing to ask for help, makes me feel less-than-super.
grouping can be fun, with the right people, but should NEVER be a requirement to play the game 
we pay enough to escape our stress filled lives a game should be fun 
The more people play on the Test Server, the fewer bugs make it to Live.
I agree with that but they need to be the right ppl, hehe and if too many play on test then it will be just as annoying as live, way over crouded
True Alt-o-holic, so... way too many to even think about listing =p
My AMV.org Page
What's left of my Youtube page
Think-Shirt Page 1 & Think-shirt Page 2
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Since I wanted to completely agree with Gothryd's post in the now closed "groups vs solo" thread I Will repost his words here. Again I could not agree more on his suggestions, they would push CoH to the next level IMO.
Posted by Gothryd:
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Having missions where the only way to solve it is to have 3 people (any 3, just have 3 bodies) on a team is 'forced'. This seems artificial and contrasts too sharply with the rest of the gameplay. Accomplish this mission using X, Y or Z tactics is better than accomplish this mission by having N number of characters.
Plese consider some of the following ideas to add a dynamic to group play:
Have a villain who must not be injured (meaning you need some sort of hold/disorient/sleep to incapacitate her without dealing damage). Innocents who are coerced into being bad guys is a staple of the genre. Stopping them without hurting them is more challenging than blasting them in most cases.
Have a villain in a room with a bomb that he will detonate if he sees any heroes (meaning you need someone with invisibility, some form of grant invisibility, stealth, etc to sneak past). Watch any number of movies and this situation arises. Their finger is on the button.
Have a room that has some bomb to deactivate or some important relic that will be destroyed if you don't retrieve it but that room is on fire, causing enormous amounts of damage to anyone who enters (meaning you need someone like a tank or someone with resist buffs, phase shift, etc)
Have a mission where healing skills (defenders, controllers, anyone with medicine) saves a victim with their healing powers.
Let's have some more missions where brute force is not the only answer. In the above examples, each problem can be overcome using more than one skill/power/tactic.
As the game stands on live, every mission is accomplished by dealing damage. That's it. Every mission today is right up a blaster's or scrapper's alley. What about a mission that is right up a defender's alley or a controller, or a tank?
CoH can be much more than just a 3rd person shooter.
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Implementing these missions in the game is not as simple as it may sound, because what if you get one of those sneak-up-on-the-villain missions and you are a blaster with no capability for stealth? Now you are right back at the beginning of this thread where you are forced to group.
The way around this problem, of course, is to make Archetype-specific missions. So there would be missions that would only be offered to you if you were a particular AT or have a particular power or combination of powers neccessary to accomplish it.
Personally, I feel like the game needs more mission options in general and this would be a great way to add new mission types and new choices for players.
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Posted by Gothryd:
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Having missions where the only way to solve it is to have 3 people (any 3, just have 3 bodies) on a team is 'forced'. This seems artificial and contrasts too sharply with the rest of the gameplay. Accomplish this mission using X, Y or Z tactics is better than accomplish this mission by having N number of characters.
Plese consider some of the following ideas to add a dynamic to group play:
Have a villain who must not be injured (meaning you need some sort of hold/disorient/sleep to incapacitate her without dealing damage). Innocents who are coerced into being bad guys is a staple of the genre. Stopping them without hurting them is more challenging than blasting them in most cases.
Have a villain in a room with a bomb that he will detonate if he sees any heroes (meaning you need someone with invisibility, some form of grant invisibility, stealth, etc to sneak past). Watch any number of movies and this situation arises. Their finger is on the button.
Have a room that has some bomb to deactivate or some important relic that will be destroyed if you don't retrieve it but that room is on fire, causing enormous amounts of damage to anyone who enters (meaning you need someone like a tank or someone with resist buffs, phase shift, etc)
Have a mission where healing skills (defenders, controllers, anyone with medicine) saves a victim with their healing powers.
Let's have some more missions where brute force is not the only answer. In the above examples, each problem can be overcome using more than one skill/power/tactic.
As the game stands on live, every mission is accomplished by dealing damage. That's it. Every mission today is right up a blaster's or scrapper's alley. What about a mission that is right up a defender's alley or a controller, or a tank?
CoH can be much more than just a 3rd person shooter.
=====================
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Awesome ideas. Anything that can help take us away from "Kill first, sort em out later" mentality is good. We're super heroes after all, not everything can be solved by nuking someone. Not all of us are the Punisher or Spawn.
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i have had some where all i had to do was click on X Deals, ran theu with super speed and clicked them all and then after geting them i went back and 'arested' the 'zombies' same effect could have been dont with invis, or maybe teleport or something i havent tried that so dont know how it works yet
either way didnt require any brute force other then the break in hehe
True Alt-o-holic, so... way too many to even think about listing =p
My AMV.org Page
What's left of my Youtube page
Think-Shirt Page 1 & Think-shirt Page 2
Thank you Positron.
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We have gone back and removed the multi-tasking missions from Story Arcs and multi-stage missions. They still remain as one-off missions with some of your Contacts however. If you encounter one of these and you do not wish to do it, simply take and complete the other mission choice your contact has. When you return, you will be presented with two more (random) missions to choose from. Our goal is not to prevent you from completing Story Arcs or Multi-stage missions you started as a solo character, and we feel that this best accomplishes that with the system we have in place right now.
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THANK YOU!
I think group missions are great, and I would like to see more of them (as long as they're implemented in a way that doesn't prevent me from still being able to play story-driven content when groups aren't readily available).
To that end, I would like to eventually see:
<ul type="square">[*]Some special Team Contacts, perhaps in Hazard zones, that would give out little one-shot Team missions (sort of like single-mission mini-TF's).[/list]I really like teaming up, and I love the idea of Task Forces, but most of them just take far too long for me to be able to commit to in a single play-session.
<ul type="square">[*]Have my regular contacts 'notice' that I'm in a Team and offer me special Team missions.[/list]"Ah, Blurg. I see you have some friends along. Good, you're really going to need them for this..." etc etc.
Thanks again!
Blurg
(Science Tanker)
[i]"City of Heroes is at its best as a Superhero game that's implemented as an MMO, rather than as an MMO that just happens to be about Superheroes..."[/i]
Hey Positron why isnt it posible to simply add these grouping specific mission threads to NPC Trainers, they already appear on everyones map, and would clearly remove them from the solo contact threads, that and the fact that trainers are in almost every level range of zones so the group required mission threads they would give would be level based, wouldnt require adding new NPC models, plus would making progression thru group only missions a purely optional facet of the game.
I'd also like to see a supergroup only mission content added to the game. Group leader selects the mission which scales villian strength to the highest level hero in the group. Missions could have an alternate mehtod for fighting Kraken, Babbage and Adamastor to avoid any potential camping issues or flame threads regarding the current hazard zone baddies for badges. Once a mission is completed only the group leader who initiated the mission is flagged as having completed it. and they then would be offered an additional supergroup mission with additional story content. Rewards for the culmanation of all the supergroup missions could range from badges to a final epic challenge supergroup task force/story arc style of mission that would be required to obtain a supergroup headquarters.
I am humbled by the speed with which this concern was addressed. Thank you SOOOO much. I'm looking forward to trying the non-solo missions with my SG, but I'm glad they wont intterupt my solo gameplay
R0xx0r. Thank you!
Thanks a lot for taking care of this. I think the solution you have in mind is perfectly amicable, for me at least. Once again, everything that I've had a problem with has been promtly been taken care of.
This was the one major downfall to issue 2, but now it's awesome again. I was kinda liking having something to whine about, so I guess I'm kinda upset that you've fixed this. You people are too good. You've already made a game that has stolen my life, now you have to go and make it better. Thanks a lot, sheesh. 
Keep up the good work.
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We have read and realize the concerns many of you are having with some of the new missions in Expansion 2. In our effort to diversify the play-style of the game, we began crafting multi-tasking missions, missions that require multiple players to do things near-simultaneously in order to complete the mission. These missions are clearly marked with the number of players required to complete them. You can still choose them if you dont have the required players, but you will need to assemble a group before you can tackle the mission.
Many of you have stated that you do not like the forced grouping that these missions involve. After going back and looking at all of the missions that require multiple players, we noticed that some occurred in the middle of Story-Arcs or in the middle of multi-stage missions. Obviously encountering one of these while you are casually soloing will gate your progress in said Story-Arc or mission, which was not really our intention
we just wanted to spice things up for you in the middle of your Arc.
We have gone back and removed the multi-tasking missions from Story Arcs and multi-stage missions. They still remain as one-off missions with some of your Contacts however. If you encounter one of these and you do not wish to do it, simply take and complete the other mission choice your contact has. When you return, you will be presented with two more (random) missions to choose from. Our goal is not to prevent you from completing Story Arcs or Multi-stage missions you started as a solo character, and we feel that this best accomplishes that with the system we have in place right now.
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Positron... I'd just like to say that all the dev's and coders and reps who look at problems like this one, and take action, ROCK.
I've just run across both this thread, and the actions taken on the DO/SO availability through contacts and non-Power 10... These are two sets of ideas that you guys came up with, kicked around the office, and implemented... but weren't recieved well, as they just didn't work out just as they had been planned.
So you fixed them. That is AWESOME. I just can't think of a good way to put it into words, but I appreciate the work you people do.
...yeah, it sounds fanboyish, don't it? Still true. Yeah, I've been whacked with the 'nerf bat' some myself, and it's not pretty... but the game works. Still. And better than a LOT of other ones I've seen in the past...
--Usotsuke
Thank you, Positron!
Might I suggest adding a 3rd mission listing to contacts for "group only" missions? I'd love to be able to do these whenever I get a group together, instead of possibly blowing all my soloable missions in a group, and then having only group missions left over when my friends log off.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Thanks for listening Positron.
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Are there plans to make story-arc missions with team requirements from the get-go? sort of like a 'mini task force' type of thing? Because I think that would be really neat, as suddenly having one mission in a story arc be team required could be annoying, having an entire story arc with your team could be a lot of fun 
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Gotta disagree on this one. TFs -are- a story arc, basically. One you can do over and over. The personal typical story arc is about 5-10 missions, a TF isn't much more than that. The only advantage I could see to team-required arcs is that you could switch-out your teammates in the middle of it and work on other missions at the same time. Would probably also be hard to code it, plus there's time consideration. Thus far I have not been successful on getting ALL the story arcs with any of my level 20+ characters yet... Just level up too fast, but I'm NOT complaining about the levelling speed.
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Are there plans to make story-arc missions with team requirements from the get-go? sort of like a 'mini task force' type of thing? Because I think that would be really neat, as suddenly having one mission in a story arc be team required could be annoying, having an entire story arc with your team could be a lot of fun
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Gotta disagree on this one. TFs -are- a story arc, basically. One you can do over and over. The personal typical story arc is about 5-10 missions, a TF isn't much more than that. The only advantage I could see to team-required arcs is that you could switch-out your teammates in the middle of it and work on other missions at the same time. Would probably also be hard to code it, plus there's time consideration. Thus far I have not been successful on getting ALL the story arcs with any of my level 20+ characters yet... Just level up too fast, but I'm NOT complaining about the levelling speed.
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That basically is the Hollows zone arc. Team requirements aside, it's a string of contacts with a common story. No more, no less.
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Thus far I have not been successful on getting ALL the story arcs with any of my level 20+ characters yet... Just level up too fast, but I'm NOT complaining about the levelling speed.
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You can get all the arcs with a soloing character, but not with a grouping one. My soloer has no problems completing all the story arcs for her level ranges (& still runs out of missions before she can talk to the next tier of contacts), but the group one has been outleveling contacts since Skyway - she has contacts she's never spoken to, & that's with a group of only three or four people doing nothing but missions.
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Sounds good to me, but I think ya'll should add an option that lets people surrender/forfeit missions so they can pick up other tasks in case something happens to the team on the multiple-task (or even regular) missions.
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We can call it the "Kill 10 CoT in Kings Row" button
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LOL.
Oh, also noticed this for the first time:
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Positron
Cryptic Studios Game Designer
Reged: 01/22/04
Posts: 610
Loc: Steel Canyon
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ROFL again.
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"Properly socially ajusted people" who feel the need to force their preferences on others should be very happy playing 5th column in CoV.
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NICE.
Thanks for listening and thanks for taking this step.
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Our goal is not to prevent you from completing Story Arcs or Multi-stage missions you started as a solo character, and we feel that this best accomplishes that with the system we have in place right now.
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Thank you, Pos! Another fine example of listening to the players' concerns.