Regarding recent changes
By
AbuliaDon,
Posted on: 2004-05-13 19:13 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Ive only played a few months but i have to say this patch comepletey ruined a perfectly good game. My scrps couldnt hit the blind side of a dam barn if there life counted on it. /useless and going to be deleted.. My ctlr's pets are so dumb now they dont tank they just draw agro to u. PA are no longer usefull at all. Along with loss of acc i dont even wanna play the game anymore. I think we deserv refunds. I want a server with is 3 on it myself cause 4 plain sux. I sure as hell wouldnt have payed up if i had known u would ruin the game like that. Worked so hard to hit 40 on my main and now i wont ever use it again. Thx for the wasted time. 
I waited to post my opinion hopeing they would fix the probs but i had to get it off my chest. It was a very awsome game. 
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Im with this guy..exept going back to I1 and I2...the pa used to be incredibly powerful, i think that the Illlusion controller community deserves some of their pa power back. I like how the spec. terror fears instead of makes villans run, but now my decoy phantasms will NOT fight. My phantasms make me stay close enought to the fight for them to start atacking, but now my decoy phantasms make me get right in the bad guys face for them to do any thing. The phantasms will spawn them into the center of the battle (which made them get some aggro) and the decoy phantasms will just fly away and cower. whats up with that.... 
I was in Beta, and I have said this before. This game has a great dev team, one of the best I've seen. Thanks, Geko.
However, one thing stood out glaringly to me in your commandment list:
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*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
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The recent changes do not follow this commandment. In fact ever since I3 it's been a downhill trend (Rage and it's ten second ADHD syndrome is a perfect example... no, it's still not fun, and nothing's been done about it). To be honest, as great as the dev team is, I'm convinced that there has been a fundamental disconnect between what the dev team thinks players consider fun and what the players actually consider fun. I don't know when this happened, but it's very noticeable; Issue 4 was the last straw and destroyed the fun of the game for me and many others. I think you need to re-evaluate how you're going about trying to achieve this commandment.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
Kinda gotta agree, theres alot of changes that are hurting the fun factor more than helping it. I have played with Rage a great deal and still think it sucks, its absolutly no fun to have to stand there mashing buttons waiting to be able to play again.... give me build up or let me respec into an entirely different power pool ;P
I thought suppresion was pretty cool at first then I played it and played it and played it and after experianceing it and multiple deaths on my Blaster and Defender as a result, I'm not impressed. If you suddenly realise you have to attempt a quick retreat, you have only realised your already dead cause you wont escape in time.
I just ask that you put this thought into place when make changes "Are we takeing the super out of the hero?" cause alot of the changes made are makeing me feel alot less Super Hero and more like a Super Zero.
But lets not end this on a negative note, cause you guys "the Devs" have made some great changes and added some really awsome things as well. Tar Patch for one, I'm happy for those playing a Dark/* Def along with many other powers that got improved like Speed Boost. I can only hope that Ice/* Tanks and */Dark Scrappers get alittle love soon, not that they are the only ones needing it. I've read some amazeingly cool ideas from players for makeing blasters more Fun and team worthy and I can only hope the Dev team has seen those posts and and sunk their hooks into some of those ideas.
What I and I'm sure many others would like to see is more bringing the hero at the bottum, up to level with the guys in the middle and less takeing the guy at the top down. It would be nice if one issue wasnt a mighty swing from the nerf bat and it would surely reflect possitivly if for once it was fixing the weak and not balanceing the strong.
We the players do need to understand however that (for example) the changes to Energy Absorbtion probly had to be made without changes to the Ice Armor pools other powers so they could see the impact it made and then figure out where to make improvements and this probly goes for alot of other powers as well, like Elude the Devs need to see how SR performs without it perma before they can make improvements else where. I'm sure internal testing doesnt answer all the questions compaired to all the info they can gather from the vast number of payers.
Okay shutting up now cause this post has become longer and covered more than I intended.
I have an Idea for an update for archtype powers. I have several ideas:---> Blasters could have optic powers[Optic Blast, glowing eyes(protect from mental attacks) ect.] , Controllers could have Speed control (slow, Super Speed, ect.), defenders could have Attack Buff (Super strength, weaken, ect.) Scrappers could have Bow and Arrow. Thats all I can think of for now. What do you think? Do y'all like them??? 
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I have an Idea for an update for archtype powers. I have several ideas:---> Blasters could have optic powers[Optic Blast, glowing eyes(protect from mental attacks) ect.] , Controllers could have Speed control (slow, Super Speed, ect.), defenders could have Attack Buff (Super strength, weaken, ect.) Scrappers could have Bow and Arrow. Thats all I can think of for now. What do you think? Do y'all like them???
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DUDE no love for the TAnker???
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I have an Idea for an update for archtype powers. I have several ideas:---> Blasters could have optic powers[Optic Blast, glowing eyes(protect from mental attacks) ect.]
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Interesting idea, I guess. Flying around shooting laser beams out of my eyes with a cape on might make me feel like a hero for the few seconds before I'm killed by return fire :P
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, Controllers could have Speed control (slow, Super Speed, ect.)
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ice/, /kinetics, and /storm have slow, and /kinetics has speed.
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, defenders could have Attack Buff (Super strength, weaken, ect.)
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kinetics/ and even empathy/ have attack buff powers
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Scrappers could have Bow and Arrow.
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No. Scrapper sets have too many ranged/AoEs already.
Excellent game! I love it. Keep up the good work.
Add my whining to the chorus . . .
What sucks about suppression? Have Faultline as the ONLY mission you can get from the ONLY contact that will give you missions, and no one else wants to team with you at the moment so you are forced to go solo . . .
Makes life hard for a lvl 14.5 blaster.
That is not the fun of a challenge . . . it is hard, frustrating work, and not being able to run for the ceiling when the swarm of eck throwing mobs locks in on you is not fun at all.
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For those of you who were in Beta, you know I always do my best to listen to the community, as does the rest of the Cryptic team. As always, we are all listening and watching.
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Well I hope you are listening and watching this morning because the atmosphere in Peregrine Island and other zones today is hostile. Your release of i5 on test is being noticed, and not in a good way. So get into the game itself and listen to dialogue. Not everyone likes or trusts the boards and what is being said needs to be heard.
/signed.
I expected to have a few unpleasent experiences with the changes, and figured that I would try and work around them, as with Supression. So far I have been instructed, based on the constant baselining and reduction of playability from the hail of nerfs that there is only ONE way to play this game. The dev way. SO, as has been mentioned in numerous other threads, CAN WE GET A WORD ON WHAT THIS "VISION" YOU ARE DESTROYING OUR GAME FOR IS? Because thus far, the development team seems to be the only people allowed in on the joke. I have accepted the weakening of the ATs, and have accepted the utter lack of high level content, and accepted the ruination of the only high level content worth performing. I have accepted the lack of immersion and utter sameness of the leveling process, I have accepted the dreary grind of ho hum missions. All this because I loved the characters I had created. Because I loved the story of the game, because I enjoyed teaming with my SG. Well, guess what. Out of 46 of us, there are 7 left. Seven. After today's latest debacle, there will be 4. Please, stop this. This game can still be salvaged. Stop trying to make everyone fit the same rigid mold and allow us the freedom to experience the world we have all helped to create, in the way that we are most comfortable.
Honestly, and forgive my earlier wailing, but after an "update" like this one, I feel I'm allowed a little venting. But honestly, tell us how were supposed to be playing, since so far, no one has ever seemed to match the dev team "vision" of what that's supposed to mean. Since we're all doing it wrong, tell us how to do it right?
-King Moloch
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
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For those of you who were in Beta, you know I always do my best to listen to the community, as does the rest of the Cryptic team. As always, we are all listening and watching. Nothing is permanent in an MMP. New features will be added, and things will change. Not every change will make your Hero more powerful, but it is our goal to make it more fun. Those are not always the same things. It is not fun if it is not challenging (that is, easy is not always fun).
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what's fun about movement suppression?
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*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
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It seems like you're hearing but not listening.
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*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
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Please advise me what is 'fun' about movement suppression?
Please advise me what is 'fun about capping my Nova's AoE?
Please advise me what is 'fun' about reducing my base resistances?
Please advise me what is 'fun' about reducing my few defenses (Stealth, Hover, Hasten)
Please advise me what is 'fun' about reducing my two Dark Servants to one and reducing their effectiveness?
Please advise me what is 'fun' about reducing the effectiveness of my enhancements for content that doesn't exist yet?
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*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
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What percentage, exactly, was mob's ToHit reduced? What percentage, exactly, was resistances and defenses reduced?
Thank you.
I know that the devs do not like to give raw numbers because we tend to obsess over them but at the moment our numbers don't look very good at all. If you would kindly post the numbers for the changes tankers,scrappers, defenders and controllers whatever information you can will be of great help you guys have all the data it's possible that we are not looking at the big picture. At this point some glimmer of hope or understanding behind those numbers would help tremendously and maybe quell the DOOM.
With all the changes that the devs have made so far, I can't help but to think is this push for *improved game stability* a alterior promotion to get people to play City of Villians when it goes live? Knowing that people will be frustrated with these changes and some will leave the game etc... is this just another marketing ploy to nerf a good game to promote another?
(Okay I will stop with the conspiracy theories...=P)
I see this coming up a lot in groups "anyone have an awaken on them?"
Dame Della
This has been my first experience with an mmorpg. I'm a very casual player usually. I'll pop on for a few times a week and play an hour maybe 3 if I'm lucky. I've played since beta and my controller has finally reached level 40. He's my first and favorite creation.
But with all this news, I'm beginning to dread it. I don't want to leave the game cause I've made great friends here. But when they leave cause of bad changes thats just not cool.
I hope someone is seriously reading all this stuff cause if people on the boards aren't happy, what will happen to people who don't read them and play the update? They'll be shocked first cause of the changes then they'll be frustrated then stop playing. CoH can easily become a ghost town with so much mmo competition available. The guy in the cubicle next to mine is promoting WoW. 
But seriously, this game is awesome. Its the only form of entertainment I have at the moment since money is tight. I'd like to continue with it. Besides didn't we make a a difficulting setting for those that wanted a harder game anyway? That was a cool idea. Just add a new bar for it called Ridiculous and make it so hard you'll be thrashing your keyboard in frustration cause the minion punched you in the gut and sent you to the hospital.
Truth, Justice and Liberty Server
Actaully Dark's were affected too, Need foes For all thier powers except thier Shadow fall or Tar Patch, oh and the pet, other than that its all foes, Specially the heal or rez.
My Supergroup is Ghost Legion, Insane Crusaders of Ghost Legion, Ghost Legion of Liberty, My Villiangroup is Shadow Wraiths.
My Global is @Darklite and @DazzlerDarklite
So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
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*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
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- Hopefully, you are hearing the cries coming from the general populace about the wide-ranging nerfs of I5.
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*I will not be scared to be wrong.
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- Great, please stop adjusting AT powers and add more content instead. The general consensus of the players that show up here is that we'd like some things that are *broken* fixed, and more content, *NOT* power adjustments/nerfs.
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*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
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- Hopefully you won't wait until the I5 release to back away from the nerf button. I foresee a large population leaving the community, and its a real shame if Cryptic takes the viewpoint of "Some leave, some come"......
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*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
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- You might want to rethink this one. Being unpopular in a business leads to failure.
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*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
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- Why was suppression added to travel powers? Was it because PvP'ers were crying about it? Did you find out from the PvE'ers if they wanted that change? Oh, nevermind, you aren't going to change the game just because something is popular.....
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*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
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- Recent changes to the game have made it decidedly UN-fun. Can we please go back to I3?
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*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
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- That's dandy, but a nerf is still a nerf. Knowing about it doesn't make it any better.
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*I will not reduce Accuracy.
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- But you will reduce Defense on the heroes across the board? I guess I should have read the small-print.
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*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
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- Could we get some hard numbers on damage, recycle times, magnitude, etc.? I've yet to see Cryptic provide this information that many of us have been asking for since day 1.
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*I will make Statesman wash my car.
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BTW, making something more challanging does NOT mean its more interesting.....
1. Walking a tight-rope over lava is challanging, but I wouldn't consider it "fun".
2. Running a marathon is challanging, but not necessarily "fun" for most people.
3. Playing chess against a Master might be challanging, and probably futile, that doesn't make it fun.
4. Committing a crime and getting away with it might be challanging, but is not necessarily fun or morally comforting.
5. Memorizing 'War and Peace' would be challanging, but definitely not fun.
I could go on for hours, but I think you can see that something that is challanging doesn't make it fun or even interesting....its just challanging. And, just because something is easy doesn't make it boring, I could lay out under the night sky and watch a meteor shower, eat some pizza, hold hands with my wife and listen to some Pink Floyd. That would be easy and a lot of fun.
Ugh.
After waiting a few weeks I think it is safe to assume none of the developers read these boards once they start them. Somone once told me that they very seldom, if ever, read the boards the people who play the games posted on, as that would lead to a conflict of interest. I didn't believe her, not really. After all, a dev started this thread, right?
((looks back up at the many, many pages of unaddressed concerns and unasnwered questions))
Hmm...
Maybe need to rethink what I thought...
-King Moloch
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
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Ugh.
After waiting a few weeks I think it is safe to assume none of the developers read these boards once they start them. Somone once told me that they very seldom, if ever, read the boards the people who play the games posted on, as that would lead to a conflict of interest. I didn't believe her, not really. After all, a dev started this thread, right?
((looks back up at the many, many pages of unaddressed concerns and unasnwered questions))
Hmm...
Maybe need to rethink what I thought...
-King Moloch
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do devs post more than once in a thread? even if it's a thread he/she started?
Lack of communication and Stealth nerfs can kill this game.
Please notify EVERY SINGLE change on the forums, don't hide anything to the players.
because this leads to confusion and it's just a total lack of respect, what's the use of the patch notes then ? It's really insulting.
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It is entirely unacceptable to say "100% working as intended, will not change" and then change it barely two weeks later. I think it is unacceptable to change it ever, without explaining the reasoning behind the change but that is just me.
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If the developers decided that something was (or was becoming) a balance issue, they have to fix it. They can't just toss up their hands and let it go on just because they said they wouldn't beforehand. Game balance trumps all.
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Unacceptable! It's fine to say there are problems and they are under review but to give a generic answer such as "working as intended" when it's clearly not, then that's a problem. Honesty is always the best policy when you are dealing with everyone, especially your paying customers.
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I have not played a controller, but I am a gamer and have been for some time. I think the issue that is being missed here is one of balance. You are complaining about losing something you never should have had in the first place. What is the point of having different power sets within an archetype if they are not distinct? .
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I am pretty new here however I have played COH for a while know. I found it hard to level because people did not want to have my healer in there group. They said they did not need it. Then i made a blaster. People said they had tankers and scrappers so they did not need me. Know I am needed. My point is, the characters where never properly balanced from the get go.
Some of us who wanted to play support roles spent days trying to gain a meazely few levels, while in the mean time tankers culled enemys and gain several levels in a matter of weeks.
I my self am happy with the changes. I also like the fact the XP has been tweaked and know I gain level faster at earlierl levels.
For those who are complainging, I have a few words that I was told in navy boot camp. addapt and overcome or be left behind. That is the simple fact. We knew the game was going to change. Any of here who has played an MMO, speacially star wars galaxy, know patchs come out. There is no use in whineing about it.
I'm glad that you and the team bent to the PvP and completely screwed the game; that's grand.
The game now sucks and I don't care if you came to my house with an engraved invitation, you'll never see my $ again. I can't believe that my hours and hours of thought and careful play to develop a tank that was very fun to play was tossed out by a major overhaul of the game disguised as a patch.
More content, fix typos, add feature sets and stability. Do NOT completely revamp which AT's are any good and make characters that were highly regarded yesterday into unplayable wretches today. This is a bunch of crap and the response obviously illustrates who got screwed. If you ever get this far down the thread, you've already lost me so please don't bother responding.
But please do observe the massive outcry from those who are willing to pay for the right to be cheated out of the work that they put in. Please do take note of those with the time available to start over and think that it's not a big deal. Also note that gimping existing accounts in advance so that the CoV purchasers don't b!tch too much is stupid. Don't you know that 90% of those CoV buyers are CoH owners who want to switch to the dark side?
These changes did not increase the appeal of the game prior to the release of CoV. It actually causes double damage to the community because myself and all the others who are quitting will also not be buying CoV anymore either.
I'm looking forward to watching lots of Katrina coverage as it is now more fun than this game.
an analogy; if someone sells me a car, and i drive this car around, and think "gee, i like this car". but the next day, that same someone comes over and takes all the tires off of it, points out in the sales contract i bought the "car" and not specifically the tyres. how would you feel?
would you:
a) tell him to go *^$#@%**^%$#@
b)buy the tyres off of him
c)look for another car dealer next time around
or whatever .
in almost every team i have been in the was a sidekick or an exemplar, so does it really matter who levels faster if you like teaming with these people ?
it is in teaming with my friends that i find the patience to deal with i5 fyi.i have no loyalty to CoH and would not recommend it to other players as of now.
and why am i even wasting space on my hardrive to keep CoH Test Server? it doesnt seem to matter what our imput is ,changes are coming anyway. since i am not a dev i cannot fathom what this "balance vision" means. i suspect the visions deviate amongst the devs themselves. i have had experience DMing tabletop RPGs and i know that new miniatures and brightly colored maps do not hold a players attention (in the over 12 yo gamers) if the DM is seen to be unfair, or disrespectful.
heres one specific i thought would be addressed, the old knockback that was taken out of super strength unless you had it slotted. this was to ease the difficulties of fighting while rooted in unyielding stance. but unyielding is not a self root anymore. why does kb still knock up ?
In summary of my thoughts on i5? Even Aleksandr of Macedonia went too far, once.
with regards
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This one simple little change has killed the solo game for close range blasters which relied upon the stealth component of super speed.
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What's especially annoying about this is that those Blasters, who really needed the stealth, were the major reason I considered the accuracy penalty to be such a horrible idea. Mind you, I thought it was a useless idea for a variety of other reasons, but by and large, for pretty much ever aspect of the game I cared about, it was harmless - except for Blasters who needed SS for stealth. And the suppression system doesn't help worth squat for that - it is, if anything, even worse than the accuracy penalty. At least Aim + Build Up can overcome the accuracy penalty.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!