Regarding recent changes
By
AbuliaDon,
Posted on: 2004-05-13 19:13 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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it doesnt seem to matter what our imput is ,changes are coming anyway. since i am not a dev i cannot fathom what this "balance vision" means. i suspect the visions deviate amongst the devs themselves.
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The balanced vision means that Statesman comes up with the worst ideas (eg Defiance) and not a single developer on the team thinks it's a bad idea: they don't have the courage to bring up anything negative. Besides, States is clueless anyways. Keep fighting that boss on your hand-held, States. Maybe one day you'll look up and notice more and more of your customers are GONE. CoH is not the #1 MMO that it could be.
Due to the lack of in-house testing, crap gets uploaded to Test and WE are suppose to "beta" everything whether we do or not: their response will be..."well, we PUT it on test for y'all to look at"...despite the fact that they change about 3% of what we ask to be looked at/changed/added/removed. For CoH Beta over a year ago I asked that Vahz and Clockwork be looked at as they seem a bit overpowered. To THIS day these two villain groups are STILL OVERPOWERED when your hero is small and does not have enough powers. Form a team and there are just more of them.
- Captain Amazing
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The balanced vision means that Statesman comes up with the worst ideas (eg Defiance) and not a single developer on the team thinks it's a bad idea: they don't have the courage to bring up anything negative.
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Ok, why is it a stupid idea? If you want to insult people (yep, real live hum,an beings NOT just names you read on the Internet) you should be able to back it up with something.
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Besides, States is clueless anyways.
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Have you designed a commercially successful MMOG? If not you should face the possibility that you are the clueless one.
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Keep fighting that boss on your hand-held, States. Maybe one day you'll look up and notice more and more of your customers are GONE.
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Some of us came back because the game was finally getting close to the vision it was designed under. Maybe more are leaving thatn returning but as long as people are returning the customer base won't be GONE as you so apocalyptically chose to put it.
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CoH is not the #1 MMO that it could be.
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I dispute that CoH could be the number 1 game without being run by a much larger company. There is a price you pay for dealing with the small guys and that price includes delays in implementing all the change the dev team would like to implement. The alternative would be much higher fees for the customer in order to increase available staff resources. That, in turn, would drive more people away and start a downward spiral.
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I have a question about the changes in issue 5.. that werent listed on the patch notes...several costume parts are missing now... ones before issue 4 were have they gone? Are they gone forever? to list a couple...
<ul type="square">[*]Suit Jacket under the "Jacket" section of upper body creation [*]The old pants, They have been replaced in "Pants" but they are very differant. you cannot color each section (upper lower) on those.[/list]
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I believe those are known issues.
LMAO.....I5 itself is a "known issue".
I just recently started reading through some of this post. While Geko's commandments sound noble, it's hard to keep believing them since he hasn't made a reply or post to the thread in over a year. I was disheartened to read he has the same mindset as Statesman. He also believes that if something is not challenging, it is not fun. Once again the old argument over what is fun. I won't go into it because Gemini has stated it pretty well.
I've only been playing since February, so I don't know what the game was like before I3, but I have seen that since the Arena was introduced, there seems to be more discontent. I'm not interested in PvP even when CoV comes out, and I know I'm not the only one. I would say the majority of players are not that interested in PvP. That wouldn't be a big deal normally, but I see a lot of changes that are mainly PvP oriented and I think it's just the beginning of a trend. Just think about the mindset of the devs. They say more challenge=more fun. What's more challenging than playing against another human player who can strategize and *gasp* even exploit? It's certainly more challenging than going up against the goofy AI (which I believe if the AI was fixed, a lot of the herding/PL issues would be fixed and a lot of nerfs unnecessary). I think they're all steering us toward this course, though I hope I'm wrong. Come on devs, please prove me wrong.
I've been playin this game for a long time, since beta and the whole time, im not always around to play, but i always come back. I have 2 accounts, and high lvls on both. I just wanted to post my spite on these new nerfs. My favorite character and one of the reasons i play is cause i love my fire/kin troller. Since shes been nerfed, i have absolutly no reason to play this game. I now i have very low aspirations for city of villians, and am sad to say i pre-ordered it. If this is how COV is goin to turn out, then i wish i could get my money back for it. I am so disappointed with how far this game has gone down hill as to what it was when i first started playing. I know im not the only one who feels this way. Sad to say, but i will not play either game anymore because its just not fun, and if there is a refund available on my COV pre-order, please let me know so i can get reimbursed for a game that i have no intentions on playing. Thanks for ruining something that was enjoyable, one of the few things left in my life.
Um.... Used....
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My favorite character and one of the reasons i play is cause i love my fire/kin troller. Since shes been nerfed, i have absolutly no reason to play this game.
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Buddy....erm... yer build is the new burntank. What are you talking about? Fire/Kin is now one of the AoE powerhouses for damage. Try that PBAoE power you never would have taken in I4.
Emnity
It doesnt really matter though cause its not nearly what it used to be, the games fun cause the fast pace, this slows it down a lot, specially since its takes 2 times as long to kill 1 guy, ide rather have it back the way it was. Thnx for your input ... buddy...
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I just recently started reading through some of this post. While Geko's commandments sound noble, it's hard to keep believing them since he hasn't made a reply or post to the thread in over a year. I was disheartened to read he has the same mindset as Statesman.
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Indeed, Geko may want the game to move toward "EQ in tights". If so, perhaps he will get reassigned someday to another project.
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I would say the majority of players are not that interested in PvP.
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Current subscriber base only. They hope for more robust subscriber numbers with realm vs realm PvP. It seems to have been a factor in the more popular games like WoW.
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Come on devs, please prove me wrong.
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You are not wrong. The game since I4 has been moving steadily toward an emphasis on PvP. The current playerbase will be ignored on this issue because they know the current playerbase has a bias for PvE. They want bigger subscriber numbers, it's not more complicated than that.
Well, okay, it may be about more than money. I think there's some ego concerns driving the game. Notice how they've altered things to steer people into doing the mission content. They work hard on the missions and they want people to experience them, even if a fair number of subscribers find it fun to level up as fast as possible and start another toon.
This is a subtle devs vs the players issue that appears to be behind some of the changes (half debt in missions, increased xp earned in missions, stuff like that).
A lot of the changes since the game went live hint to me that the devs want to cram us into a narrow, "proper" way to play the game from 1 to 50. It seems to gall them that people skip content or find unexpected, "less challenging" ways to complete missions.
I would rather that the devs learn not to be offended by the playerbase and stop nerfing.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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It doesnt really matter though cause its not nearly what it used to be, the games fun cause the fast pace, this slows it down a lot, specially since its takes 2 times as long to kill 1 guy, ide rather have it back the way it was. Thnx for your input ... buddy...
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Then Used you have not built it for I5. I run a fire/kin and a fire/rad and both take down enemies at a faster pace than I4 and both can take down MORE enemies at a faster pace than I4.
Again I say: try that PBAoE you never would have taken in I4. The one that shoots your FPS to .03.
Try it. Don't get pissed, you wanted advice, now try it. Take the power, use containment, then come back and tell me why we won't be NERFED in I6.
If you are running a fire controller and relying on just your single target holds and your AoE holds to deal damage, then you are ignoring the major damage dealing power in the set.
Try it.
Emnity
listen, i don't know if this has been addressed in this post yet, cause i haven't read the entire thing, but there are a lot of controllers out there that are happy with the changes, I am not one of them, I have a lvl 50 Illusion / storm controller, and have found that my main abilities as a "controller" have been nerfed, my illusion set that is, for my storm seems to work fine still. I'd like to know at what point the term "controller" lost all meaning to the dev's and quite a few players, when i broughtthis subject up on broadcast everyone said i shouldn't complain cause i can do mor edamage now, ....it's at this point my coronary induced by others stupidity set in. If i had wanted to deal damage i think i woulda taken a blaster or scrapper, but thats not what i wanted, silly me i wanted to be a controller and now what do i have? a mock blaster with one good hold, don't even get me started on pets, all i want is to control large groups of enemies so my pets or my teammates can smack em around, but that ain't happening, so all you damage lovinblaster wannabe's that think its ok to nerf illusion this way...please get a blaster and leave controllers to do what their "supposed" to be best at....controlling
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For those of you who were in Beta, you know I always do my best to listen to the community, as does the rest of the Cryptic team. As always, we are all listening and watching. Nothing is permanent in an MMP. New features will be added, and things will change. Not every change will make your Hero more powerful, but it is our goal to make it more fun. Those are not always the same things. It is not fun if it is not challenging (that is, easy is not always fun).
My point is anything can change. If a change is bad, it can be modified. Many rants about Hasten hit the boards before most people even tried out the changes. Also, many of the upgrades and improvements to other powers were not even considered. So, for now, I am simply asking you to try things out for a while, and we will do the same. I promise things will ebb and flow until we hit a sweet spot. My guess is Hasten will not be reverted, but the pendulum will probably swing back the other way a little bit. The same may hold true for Accelerate Metabolism.
So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.
(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)
A few last words
Please try to avoid rumors. We have no intention to stealth nerf. Once in a rare while a change goes out that falls off a patch note, or a change is made that affects things in an unforeseen way (technically, this is a bug). But it is not in out best interest to try to pull the wool over your eyes. If you think you see a problem, please politely let us know. Long ranting posts full of disrespect often gets ignored and a real problem may get overlooked. If you see a change that is not in a patch note, it may not belong there, but it may also simply have been overlooked. Either way, we will do out best to confirm things for you.
Finally, there are a lot of you, and these boards are huge. We read as much as we can, but we cant read and respond to everything. But never assume you are being ignored. Remember, for most issues, please use the in-game petition tool.
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*I will not >>>intentionally<<< stealth nerf. That sounds fishy.
Ho-hum. Same song, 1000th verse - it ain't no better and it ain't no worse. Same old feedback from dev - same old complaints from players. And here I am happily playing my lvl 50 and lvl 36 regen scrappers as if nothing ever changed.
Maybe I am not discontented with recent changes because I almost always have played conservatively within my characters' limits. If I start taking too much damage, I back off and heal or use a different tactic. I assess every mob group to determine the best tactics to use for the fight - much like a field officer does in the military. Do the same regardless of teaming or soloing.
The bottom line is that Geko, Statesman, et al, are businessmen who are not out to ruin the product the provides them with their personal income and profits for NCSoft. Their ultimate goal is to grow the userbase so that their products gain market share. As good businessmen, they have a long-term plan for reaching their business goals. It is to be expected that there will be bumps and potholes along the way. Fortunately, their products can easily be adjusted to remain viable forces in the gaming market. I don't expect them to always make perfect decisions anymore than I expect Ford to make vehicles that never get recalled or develop a product that satisfies 100% of the buying public. That's just the way it is in business.
Proceed, Geko, do what you feel is right for your products. If your decisions are correct, the buying public will let you know with their +$$$$. If you are wrong, the public will let you know with -$$$$$. It's a risky business - this gaming world - with lots of competition. I admire the Cryptic staff for their willingness to take risks rather than sit at their computers and play it safe by not taking any risks.
I sincerely hope your risks pay off in the long run. But remember (and this is something developers tend to minimize and forget), ultimately, it is the consumers - who with their $$$ - will tell you whether you were right or you were wrong.
Totally agrew the sentiments in this post. However, one thing I am concerned about is that I have been finding it harder now to find teams and I don't know if it is perception or misperception but it seems like there are less people playing; is there any way to substantiate this?
Again, I am not trying to flame or whatever, just that I am a die-hard fan, have 2 lvl 50's that I still like to play along with practically every type of alt ranging from the teens to the upper 30s and am concerned that for something which I consider so much fun, I won't have as large of a community to partner with anymore.
As an aside, did one of the 6-hour TFs last night in the Shadow Shard, and while it was fun playing with the team, the lack of uniqueness for the missions was a bit disappointing. After awhile, the "destroy leaders in the base camp" with turning off 4 computers simultaneously got really really old, especially after putting in so much time. So my one comment would be that if you want to make the game overall more fun, PLEASE work on the mission content; if I hadnt put in so many hours already in the TF, and, didn't want to leave my comrades in a bad position, I would have just quit it and went to bed earlier (as oppossed to 5:30AM this morning before going to work at 8am).
Thanks!
Arc: 378122 "Tales of the Terran Space Marines -The Apocalypse Initiative" 5stars!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rgl4...687B0FC89F142C
Arc: 481545 "Twilight of the Gods - The Praetorian conflict"8000+ hits!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxJ6S...848B21E2350DCC
Devs: Challenge is always fun. Oh, and this exact amount of challenge, too. Otherwise, you'll get bored and leave, or something.
Players: Challenge is sometimes fun, with some toons. What's the deal with this level of challenge, anyway? None of my toons work, I'm leaving.
Moral of the story: Challenge is defined differently by every person. Even worse, it's defined differently by the same person playing a different toon.
Furthermore, people that are "bored" by CoH because it's "too easy" are still here playing it, after 5 Issues. I don't see that argument as holding as much weight as the Devs seem to.
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
Just a sec...putting on my "Dev Hat"... ok! done.
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Please advise me what is 'fun' about movement suppression?
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It stops ganking in some, specific, Arena matchups.
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Please advise me what is 'fun about capping my Nova's AoE?
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What ISN'T fun about this? Why would someone be Nova-ing more than one spawn? That's not playing the game as intended, and so it can't be stopping any "fun".
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Please advise me what is 'fun' about reducing my base resistances?
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This change adds "fun" for Sonic Defenders. After all, their "fun" counts, too.
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Please advise me what is 'fun' about reducing my few defenses (Stealth, Hover, Hasten)
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This is the much-talked-about "fun increase" for Force-Field Defenders. In addition, sleepwalking through a mission where nothing can hit you isn't "fun". Oh, and it reduces the Defender's role, as well.
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Please advise me what is 'fun' about reducing my two Dark Servants to one and reducing their effectiveness?
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Danger can be exciting, and excitement is "fun"! Multiple Dark Servants effectivly added Controllers to the party roster. Since Controller AoEs were reduced, pets that could duplicate an extra Controller need to be reined in as well.
Now DDD's can experience the "fun" of "the threat of Defeat", like other power sets.
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Please advise me what is 'fun' about reducing the effectiveness of my enhancements for content that doesn't exist yet?
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We'd have to do it some time, in order to add more "fun" later! And we're doing you the favor of having plenty of time to get used to the new power performance, so you'll be all ready for the new content...when it arrives.
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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Moral of the story: Challenge is defined differently by every person. Even worse, it's defined differently by the same person playing a different toon.
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bingo
which is why I don't blame or flame anyone who says these changes are not fun. My advice is try another AT I would quit a game too if all they had was one AT I enjoy. Since fun is really relative I think both sides of the arguments have their merits.
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So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
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Sorry Geko i really dont mean to call you out but you put it out there. Last time I counted there were over 2500 posts about ED in the first 36 hours. Someone ran the math saying it was one post every 1.5 minutes. I read through 2 hours worth when i couldnt sleep that night. I did not find any positive support for this. I am comfortable in my assumtion that there were few if any. I apologize to turn your statement against you but it doesnt appear to the playership that anyone is listening.
Please find another way.
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Some of us came back because the game was finally getting close to the vision it was designed under.
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Really? Would you be so kind as to tell us all who are not immediately privy to all of Jack's secret thoughts where he has been so kind as to have written and published this alleged "vision"? After all, it's not like he's some kind of demented sadist who refuses to tell people BEFOREHAND what the "vision" is. After all, he's not some monster who prefers that people flounder around without the faintest idea that they're going to be punished for failing to play "as intended" because the "as intended" is never actually published until AFTER punishments are dealt out. No, he's a decent, upstanding individual. And, like any decent, upstanding individual, he would have published this "vision" and laid out plainly how "as intended" works, and he would have had the basic decency and humanity to have put this somewhere that players can access it.
I seem to have misplaced my copy. Can you tell me where I can find this document?
After all, it's not as if the developers are fumble-bumbling around without the faintest clue of what they're doing and merely lying--rationalizing their changes ad hoc with some silly, false tale about a "vision" and "as intended" that actually do not exist. Who would be such a low individual? No, they are decent, admirable people. Thus, they have their "vision" and guidelines for "as intended" laid out plain to prevent unnecessary player distress. Could you please point out where I could get a copy? I seem to have mislaid mine.
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Moral of the story: Challenge is defined differently by every person. Even worse, it's defined differently by the same person playing a different toon.
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bingo
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Oh, no. There is a single, universal standard of fun, and it is laid out in perfect detail in The Big Book of Vision, or How to Play As Intended. Don't we all have a copy?
Every Patch that comes it slowly sucks the life of what was once a great game. You didn't learn anything from the so successful arena!! You mess with the powers and people will leave.Are you guys even reading the forums?? You killed FireTankers and destroyed scrappers! I hope City of Villians isn't this bad or I'm going back to console games!
MooMoo you've only been with this game since March. Having been on since closed beta for CoH, and in closed beta for CoV, I've seen quadruple the updates you have, and none of them have been crippling. Every single update some AT has whined their pants off, and yet I still keep playing all 5 ATs exactly the same in CoH, and they all work exceptionally well in different ways. I team with a fire tanker regularly and he appears to tank quite well covered in fire (hence his fire tank title). I team with scrappers regularly, and have a scrapper, they seem to scrap to my delight. So calm down and just the play the game. Almost two years and I've never seen an unplayable build (well, maybe Trick Arrow 
), much less an unplayable AT.
Just a quick side-note, using as person's postcount and/or date reg'd, is an insufficient way to map another player's total experience with the game, and in no way places you above them in the Noob/Vet Heirarchy.
Keep in mind that date reg'd only means they registered on the forums on that date, some players (many, with the case of the ED Issue) just play the game and don't feel a need to come here on the forums, until something affects their playtime so dramatically that they feel compelled to voice their concerns and/or opinions.
Some, like myself, have been here since Beta as well, even though our post count and/or date reg'd may lead you to believe you otherwise.
No I've been with the game longer than that, March is when i reg. w/the forum. I to am doing the beta for COV. And your wrong if u think that FireTanks have not been serverly altered. The fact is the updates are slowly taking apart what was once a great game. An update is suppose to make a game better not worse. So just because you think the everything is fine there are 35 or so more post that say other wise.
I have a question about the changes in issue 5.. that werent listed on the patch notes...several costume parts are missing now... ones before issue 4 were have they gone? Are they gone forever? to list a couple...
<ul type="square">[*]Suit Jacket under the "Jacket" section of upper body creation [*]The old pants, They have been replaced in "Pants" but they are very differant. you cannot color each section (upper lower) on those.[/list]