Regarding recent changes
By
AbuliaDon,
Posted on: 2004-05-13 19:13 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Geko, just so you guys and gals know, for the most part, we couldn't be happier with the responses given to us, and the attitude you all have dealing with the community. While the hasten nerf did catch a lot off guard, I can understand why it was modified. I hope that over time we can all adjust to these changes, and if it's warranted, I hope there is a bit of adaptation towards a more "community friendly" version...(maybe like uh...I dunno something...anyways whatever)
That being said, if you could please look at aim and build up and let us know if those will be altered. Their timers are less than Hasten, and before I dump a lot of enhancement slots in them, I would very much like to know if they will be altered for balance sake.
Thanks so much.
Thank you Geko.
[ QUOTE ]
So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.
(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)
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Well considering Statesman's temper last time the patch went out I'm suprised you're trying to sneak that in. Hoping E3 will distract him I suppose.
Geko you and the rest of the Devs have done a fantastic job of responding to requests and messages. Not everything has been perfect but you've offered to provide calculators, shown us under the hood how certain powers work and have tried to answer the questions we have. This board moves fast.
Few games have ever managed to do so, MMORPG or not so I'm glad to see how fast everything goes.
Sounds good. Thanks.
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(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)
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Ah ha! I knew accuracy was nerfed! 
I want AM to be -usefull- for END regeneration. That is the main thing I used it for, powering the other END hogs in the radiation power set 
I'm not going to make demands in terms of changing AM, as much as I'd like to. All I want is an explanation of why its recharge was increased so damn much, and what kind of testing was done in terms of the viability of Radiation after the change. I will bear the frustration and anger and try to group using Adam Smasher tonight, and see what I find.
Edited: Thanks for the heads up Geko 
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*I will make Statesman wash my car.
[/ QUOTE ] Considering his super-strength, do you really want him rubbing vigorously on your car's finish? 
geko > all
I thank you for this post.. I do hope you look closely at the things that happened. Im not afraid to admit im wrong but I will also stand up for what I think is right.. after looking at all the numbers and trying things I agree hasten needed to be changed, however I think it went a little too far. I think it should get close to perma haste at 4 slots and be in overlap at 5.. SO of course.
Am however I think was way off base, when I did my character deletions post I was very suprised people werent happy but were sticking to their characters. Am people were much much unhappier, leaving the game and deleting characters. This is a primary power for defenders and it really cut the legs out from under them. I really believe this needs to be put back to previous levels completly, or at least very very close. If not rad needs a long hard look at the powerset and the end cost and it needs to be brought down for not having enough recovery to power it. I think that is much harder thing to do.
FYI I had a grav/rad controller I deleted and a rad/dark defender which is waiting for respec though I might have to delete. I find I cant do anything other than leach exp, I get in a fight and my end just falls into negative numbers.
Thank you, Geko... I may have been a meanie/whiner for a while, but I am starting to get a really high opinion of you guys.
Hearts,
Winter
Thanks for the feedback, its greatly appreciated.
"My guess is Hasten will not be reverted, but the pendulum will probably swing back the other way a little bit. The same may hold true for Accelerate Metabolism"
What does this mean? You gave the Radiation Emission a good, hard old fashioned, SoE style 'Nerf'
Will there be further balancing to this line? Now a major ability of it has been reduced. Are you following up the information regarding timer reducers that do not seem to be working correctly? Why is the regen time longer than Hasten?
And as much as I'm happy for the boosts you gave other powers... that doesnt help me much.
A Radiation Defender
Geko -
This is a post with information I've been trying to get to you guys for days in some cases, weeks in others, including bugs I've reported since beta.
Fast Overview -
1. Haste is 10 minute base recharge, not 9.
2. Removing enhancements from haste is bugged and will make the client do odd things
3. Dull pain does not give the proper number of hitpoints
4. Dull pain permanently reduces your hitpoints
5. Combustion is costing considerably more to cast than most sources say it is suppose to cast (just looking for verification here).
In greater detail -
1. The base recycle time of haste is currently TEN minutes, not nine. This is pretty easy to verify... Just create or use a character with haste, take all the enhancements out of it, and you'll see it has an 8 minute 38 second click to click recycle time. 70% bonus for the 120 seconds of haste running takes 84 seconds off of the recharge timer. 8:38 + 1:24 = 10:02. This means that the lowest down time period you can have, using 6 SOs,is 52 seconds, not the 32 (or 14 or any other low number) that has been posted elsewhere. The only way to get under 52, for arguement's sake would be to use SOs that are over your level, but I'm trying to compare apples to apples. For arguements sake, I did test this with other enhancement combinations and they all yield the same result, haste is not on the 9 minute timer that Geko said it should be on.
2. If you have a time enhancement in haste and then remove it (so you have no enhancement at all), then the client treats the recycle time on the button as if you had an SO in it. Again, easy to verify... Enhance haste with a trainer (not sure if you have to actually use haste at this point), then destroy the trainer so the slot is empty. You will see the button for haste refresh in 5 min 55 sec, but it doesn't actually become usable until the full 8 min 40 sec have elapsed. This may be an issue when timer enhancements go below level (turn red) as well since I've had super group members complaining about buttons suddenly being out of sync... purely speculation though.
3. Dull pain still does not give 40% bonus to hitpoints, it actually give less than 30% added to the top end while healing for the correct 40% amount.
4. Dull pain still PERMANENTLY removes hitpoints (usually 2) after the first time it is used. Neither dying nor relogging will fix this. Verify by making a level 2 invulnerable tanker, take note that it has 130 hpts, use dull pain, wait for it to wear off, now only has 128 hpts.
5. Combustion (for fire tankers) is listed in a couple of places as being a ~12 endurance power. In game it actually costs 19 to use. That's nearly double what the blaster version costs to use... Balanced? Bugged? A typo in all the "official" sources?
Thanks for taking the time.
Geko, you are one cool cat.
Thats cool. but umm what about telekinesis? that power should not be aoe and needs to be fixed as well as it needs to work on bosses. add a level restriction to it or something but please fix it the way it is and makeing it aoe just does not cut it. leave to aoe push to storm controllers and give the mind controllers a single target hold/push just as it was
[ QUOTE ]
So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.
(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)
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Why isn't this on there?
*I will not lie to the players
or
*I will be honest at all times regarding CoH game systems and mechanics
Obviously there are some things you aren't allowed to reveal, so the appropriate response would be "Not allowed to answer that". I think all rational people can accept that answer. I would hope people wouldn't ask for the why of it and just accept you have limits to what information you can dole out.
BUT
It is entirely unacceptable to say "100% working as intended, will not change" and then change it barely two weeks later. I think it is unacceptable to change it ever, without explaining the reasoning behind the change but that is just me.
Just please treat us better then you (Cryptic) did with the TF and nerf patch and I will resubscribe. I like this game, I plan to play it for a long time if I am convinced enough to resubscribe.
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It is entirely unacceptable to say "100% working as intended, will not change" and then change it barely two weeks later. I think it is unacceptable to change it ever, without explaining the reasoning behind the change but that is just me.
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If the developers decided that something was (or was becoming) a balance issue, they have to fix it. They can't just toss up their hands and let it go on just because they said they wouldn't beforehand. Game balance trumps all.
[ QUOTE ]
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can't say I will always agree with you, but if you stick to this you will always have my respect. Don't know if that means anything.
I don't see how it wasn't a balance issue in beta and became one in two weeks. Either way, and explanation would have been nice, coupled with a "we farked up, we admit it".
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I don't see how it wasn't a balance issue in beta and became one in two weeks. Either way, and explanation would have been nice, coupled with a "we farked up, we admit it".
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My tinfoil hat theory? People that were leveling to 40 ASAP *knew* that it worked that good in BETA, but didn't mention *how* good it was.
It might have been mentioned, but you have to remember, the DEVs can't play the game nearly as much as super-players that find exploits very quickly.
IIRC, the guy who said he made it to 40 even said that he was using Super Speed, even though he knew that it was going to be changed. He *exploited* the powers to his fullest to get there in two week just to be "first".
Thanks for the update, geko! Please bear in mind that when some issues get prompt dev comment and/or attention while others get no public aknowlegement at all, it is impossible for the community to distinguish between an intentional policy of no comment while the issue is under consideration and the issue simply not registering on the devs' radar. Hence the frustration.
Just to briefly summarize a bug we've found with unenhanced Accelerate Metabolism: the unenhanced power's button appears to pop after 9 minutes; however, the power itself cannot be used again until 11+ minutes after the power was activated. Adding an enhancement seems to clear up the problem. Full details can be found in this thread. (This has been /bug'd, by the way.)
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[ QUOTE ]
So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.
(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)
[/ QUOTE ]
Why isn't this on there?
*I will not lie to the players
or
*I will be honest at all times regarding CoH game systems and mechanics
Obviously there are some things you aren't allowed to reveal, so the appropriate response would be "Not allowed to answer that". I think all rational people can accept that answer. I would hope people wouldn't ask for the why of it and just accept you have limits to what information you can dole out.
BUT
It is entirely unacceptable to say "100% working as intended, will not change" and then change it barely two weeks later. I think it is unacceptable to change it ever, without explaining the reasoning behind the change but that is just me.
Just please treat us better then you (Cryptic) did with the TF and nerf patch and I will resubscribe. I like this game, I plan to play it for a long time if I am convinced enough to resubscribe.
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Cryptic has never lied to us. Not once. I've seen mistakes made, and corrections and revisions to those mistakes, but never outright lies.
They never said Hasten would not change. They said it was working as intended at the end of beta, and that it seemed to be balanced. They found this to be untrue, so they changed it. This isn't a lie of any sort.
If I gave you an unopened gallon of milk and said it should be fine, you would drink it yes? Then if it was sour, did I lie to you?
How was I to know?
How were they to know that Hasten was that broken before the end of beta? They didn't have the massive amount of players, and all the data that provides before that time.
Leave. Don't come back. I'm not going to miss you, nor is anyone else.
For those of you who were in Beta, you know I always do my best to listen to the community, as does the rest of the Cryptic team. As always, we are all listening and watching. Nothing is permanent in an MMP. New features will be added, and things will change. Not every change will make your Hero more powerful, but it is our goal to make it more fun. Those are not always the same things. It is not fun if it is not challenging (that is, easy is not always fun).
My point is anything can change. If a change is bad, it can be modified. Many rants about Hasten hit the boards before most people even tried out the changes. Also, many of the upgrades and improvements to other powers were not even considered. So, for now, I am simply asking you to try things out for a while, and we will do the same. I promise things will ebb and flow until we hit a sweet spot. My guess is Hasten will not be reverted, but the pendulum will probably swing back the other way a little bit. The same may hold true for Accelerate Metabolism.
So, with that said, let me give you my 10 Commandments of Geko:
*I will always listen to the community (that goes for the boards, in game, and thru mining data and statistics).
*I will not be scared to be wrong.
*I will react as quickly as possible, but not sooner than needed.
*I will not be scared to be unpopular.
*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.
*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.
*I will not intentionally stealth nerf.
*I will not reduce Accuracy.
*I will try my best to give you detailed information.
*I will make Statesman wash my car.
(well, 9 out of 10 aint bad)
A few last words
Please try to avoid rumors. We have no intention to stealth nerf. Once in a rare while a change goes out that falls off a patch note, or a change is made that affects things in an unforeseen way (technically, this is a bug). But it is not in out best interest to try to pull the wool over your eyes. If you think you see a problem, please politely let us know. Long ranting posts full of disrespect often gets ignored and a real problem may get overlooked. If you see a change that is not in a patch note, it may not belong there, but it may also simply have been overlooked. Either way, we will do out best to confirm things for you.
Finally, there are a lot of you, and these boards are huge. We read as much as we can, but we cant read and respond to everything. But never assume you are being ignored. Remember, for most issues, please use the in-game petition tool.