Regarding recent changes

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quoteThey give you 49 slots between 20 powers. You can only max out 9 of them, which leaves one more with 5 slots, and the rest with none, UNLESS you short change some of them. Primary attacks deserve 6 slots. Primary defenses deserve six slots, some travel powers and support abilities deserve maybe 4 slots, but Hasten has never been strong enough to justify allocating 5 of your free slots to it.

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You can also max out 6 powers and have an extra 19 slots free. The problem is right now the extra 19 are good enough to max out a number of powers Considering that there are some you will never put more than one enchanement on, for example a power you will take early that has a similar better power later. Then there are powers like Stamina were you are only going to put as many as you need. I don't see the biggest end burner putting 6 SO in stamina.

Right now a hero can be made that is good in everything. I don't think that is right and it making the game too easy.

I can see the problem with hasten is a number of people have wasted there slots on power that are not useful at the higher levels and now want to 6 SO hasten. If you think about it, by having 6 slots in the lower level power they were able to get thru the lower better. It seem to be a case of having your cake and being able to eat it too.

I have a solution, but this will require a major change to the game. Right now it is a linear formula for increases. If you did a formual where the fist increase is the best say a 1 and the next increase are a 1/n where n = slot number that enhancement has in that power. Most powers will be good a 3 to 4 slot. Then people have a good reason to add other enhances ments. Then you have the choice of 1/6 more damage or a good range increase, accuracy or special effect enhancement.

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I think this is the core of the issue. I think we purposefully don't get enough enhancement slots to 6-slot everything. This way, we're forced to choose which powers are our best, our mainstays. Even beyond which powers you did or did not choose, which powers you put your slots in define your character.

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Well obviously, since there are less than 100 given slots. But the point is that spending 6 slots on hasten is not some trival thing. There are plenty of other powers you'd be weakening by adding those slots to Hasten, powers that are MUCH more important. And since Hasten now NEEDS 6 SOs to function properly, this makes the power not worth having, since with no slots spent the power is relatively worthless, and with 6 slots spent, you've just taken slots from powers that could have been made MUCH more efficient by adding them.

I had to make choices when allocating slots, and plenty of them. At no time did I feel that it was a "no brainer" to decide where to place my next slot. At no time did I truly wish that more of my moves were hopelessly gimped withough six-sloting them.

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And one more comment on Hasten. Not trying to flame here, or anything like that. But, if you used to be able to get the absolute maximum benefit from Hasten with only 2 slots (since the effect never increased, and at 2 slots/SOs you could always have it on) what's the point of having an option to put 6 slots in it? What other power in the entire game doesn't gain something (maybe not much, but something) by adding those last 4 slots? I can't think of one. Why should Hasten be any different?

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Super Speed. You can max it out in two, three if you don't have Swift or Quickness.

Also, Geko said that Flight and Super Leap were artificially capped at sub-Super Speed speeds, so that leads one to assume that they max out short of 6 SOs.

And as I said, you should be able to slot in endurance enhancements (since the move costs endurance) if you REALLY feel like 6 slotting it. The move is just NOT worth 6 slots, and 6 slots are NECESSARY to get the move to be of ANY value. I cannot understand why so many people cannot understand that.

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It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

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Could I see some examples? I look at Enervating Field and Choking Cloud and the rate of endurance drain seems extreme. I have taken both those powers because the description seemed powerful. But I find they are near useless because it comepletely drains my endurance in a matter of seconds.

Looking over the heal planner, I don't see any other abilities costing more than 2 edurance per second. I don't deny they have powerful effects but the rate of drain is extreme compared to anything else out there.

Since you have taken away accelerate mutation, I have shelved my defender. I've lost 4 slots now to virtually unusable skills (AM, Choking Cloud, Enervating Field + Hasten).
Admittedly that was some self gimping, but it goes worse with the nerfs.

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...who clearly have no grasp of even the most basic concepts of game balance and game design, no matter how loudly they may shout...

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So its game balance that I spend half my time sitting around waiting for end to regen? Do you spend half your time sitting around waiting for end?

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I am a stone/stone tanker, and yes, I spend a lot of time waiting for my endurance to regenerate. The Stone defense primary power pool has toggle powers and quick on and off armor powers that drain A LOT of endurance. Do I come on the boards because I have down time in game, NO. Does a few seconds of downtime between every other fight or so, decrease my level of fun, NO. Would having the ability to use every attack every battle forever and ever without worrying about endurance during or after be fun, NO.

All of you people whining about the "nerfs" to haste and accelerate metabolism want to have your cake and eat it to. Well, things just don't work that way. Even in the fairy tale world of comic books where heroes and villains alike have powers that defy the laws of physics, there are limits. Even Superman can't fight FOREVER, he can tire. Even the Thing can get HURT, The Flash can "draw aggro" and be damaged while traveling at SuperSpeed, etc. I could go on, but it would be redundant.

Certain archtypes, by definition should have certain power levels and serve different functions. Maybe they are not as balanced as they could be right now, but the devs are working hard to get there.

For instance, Defenders should NOT be able to solo as effectively as tankers or scrappers. Neither should blasters for that matter, but definitely better than defenders. Susan Storm, the Invisible Woman, is a good example of a defender. She can create invisible force fields that are nearly impervious and also shoot "force" bolts at foes. And, of course, she can turn invisible. Now, the Thing is a good example of an Invul/Super Strength Tanker. Now, which one could solo better, the defender (Invisible Woman), or the Thing? I think the obvious answer is the Thing. His endurance is much greater than the Invisible Woman. Even though her force field is nearly impenetrable, the concentratation needed to maintain it would quickly tire her out. Once exhausted, her force field would fall and she would be no more powerful than any normal human. This isn't even taking into account whether she wanted to use her force bolts, a power she can only use with her force field down. The Thing on the other hand, while not having a force field, is nearly impervious to damage nonetheless. Plus, he is Super Strong, able to life more than 50 tons above his head, or maybe more. He could dish it and out and take it for far longer than Invisible Woman.

I'm not even going to get into how a character like Superman in CoH would completely ruin the fun of the game. No challange = unbalanced = NO FUN. Challange = balance = MORE FUN.

/flame proof suit on

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The move is just NOT worth 6 slots, and 6 slots are NECESSARY to get the move to be of ANY value. I cannot understand why so many people cannot understand that.

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Because when you say this, you've always been talking about your own particular archetype build. A Dark Melee scrapper, relying on hastened Shadow Maul, Dark Consumption, Soul Drain.

There are plenty of people who keep on saying that Hasten can be useful situationally. Hasten does not absolutely have to be on all the time for it to be of any use. That's ludicrous. If you feel that absolute rule, is true in case of your character, that's fine. But when you speak on a macro level like this, you have to look past your own nose.

I myself am *still* debating whether to take Hasten, even as an MA scrapper where the long attack animation times won't benefit from it as much. Why? So I can get off Eagle Claw + Thunder Kick + Eagle Claw + Crane kick in a 10 second span of Focused Chi, while still having these slotted to the max in damage/acc enhancements. To me, that's useful, and Hasten doesn't need to be on all the time for me to do it.

The Accelerate Metabolism change, is more debateable. I feel for the rad defenders out there. But right now a lot of the nerf-protestors of these two powers are starting to grossly exaggerate the 'uselessness' of them now. And you know what guys, it doesn't help your cause...if anything it makes your argument less convincing.

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When did I say no drawbacks at all? I have a whole thread about possible drawbacks they could add to Hasten. I have no trouble with Hasten having drawbacks, my only problem is that "downtime" is the ONE totally unacceptible drawback. The powers must work all the time, and with few enhancement slots. EVERYTHING else is up for debate.

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What other drawback could their possibly be fore Hasten that would make it balanced? The ONLY thing Hasten does is increase the recharge rate of EVERY power you have. Thus, the recharge time of EVERY power is reduced. To make use of this reduced recharge time, one has to have enough endurance to use the powers which are now ready to use quicker. If this power were to be on ALL THE TIME with little enhancement, this would be mean that you would have to have enough endurance to activate it all the time. Combined with the need to have enough endurance to use the now very quickly recharging powers, what you are demanding is infinite endurance so you can use Hasten and these powers infinitely.
This is totally UNREASONABLE and TOTALLY UNBALANCING.

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Super Speed. You can max it out in two, three if you don't have Swift or Quickness.

Also, Geko said that Flight and Super Leap were artificially capped at sub-Super Speed speeds, so that leads one to assume that they max out short of 6 SOs.

And as I said, you should be able to slot in endurance enhancements (since the move costs endurance) if you REALLY feel like 6 slotting it. The move is just NOT worth 6 slots, and 6 slots are NECESSARY to get the move to be of ANY value. I cannot understand why so many people cannot understand that.

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I don't think you can really count the travel powers. Yes, you can't get a full 6 slots of use out of them, but that's due to limitations set by the servers/their technology, not because of the powers themselves. Heck, Super Speed could have its base speed moved down so you indeed would need 6 slots to get the maximum, but that would remove its one advantage as a travel power (speed).

As for Hasten, sorry if this sounds blunt, but if it's vital enough that you need it all the time, then obviously it should be worth 6 slots to you.

We (or at least I) understand what you're claiming. We (I) just don't agree that hasten is totally useless without 6 slots.

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Could I see some examples? I look at Enervating Field and Choking Cloud and the rate of endurance drain seems extreme. I have taken both those powers because the description seemed powerful. But I find they are near useless because it comepletely drains my endurance in a matter of seconds.

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He was talking about Radiation Blast, not Radiation Emission. Neutrino Bolt and X-Ray Beam vs. Energy Blast and Energy Torrent, and such.

Geko,

Devs have the right to change as many things as they want as often as they want.

But where devs claim and exercise that right, concerned customers demand the same rights regarding their characters.

So when can we expect respeccing that is as comprehensive as the kinds of changes we have to endure?

I know Defenders and Controllers who want to drop the entire rad powerset now. Can they switch to Empathy? And when you nerf that can they switch to Storm? Can they switch archetypes once you've nerfed ALL support powers?

So far, it looks like I'll be able to change the color of my leopardskin tights before I can drop the powers I no longer want.

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I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

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Then YOU take it! Give the rest of us a way out of it.

Thanks for the post Geko.

I would also like to add that I think AMs RT needs a drastic reduction. I'd rather remove or reduce some of its buffs, like to movement speed, than have such an excessive RT.

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I know Defenders and Controllers who want to drop the entire rad powerset now. Can they switch to Empathy? And when you nerf that can they switch to Storm? Can they switch archetypes once you've nerfed ALL support powers?

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Why would they want to drop the whole set when only its' secondary (at best) effect was rebalanced? It still has 3 awesome debuffs, a pretty darn good heal, the best combat rez in the game...

The only people I can understand wanting to drop the whole set would be those who took it for AM alone. And, well, if you take a whole powerset for one power, it's noone's fault but your own if that power turns out to be unbalanced (and likely why many took it in the first place).

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Why would they want to drop the whole set when only its' secondary (at best) effect was rebalanced? It still has 3 awesome debuffs, a pretty darn good heal, the best combat rez in the game...

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I can't speak for all of them, but some think the powerset's balance revolved around A.M, and without it they would have reported (in beta) that the powers in the powerset needed shorter recharges, more damage, and/or lower endurance costs i.e. the things that A.M. provided).

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The only people I can understand wanting to drop the whole set would be those who took it for AM alone. And, well, if you take a whole powerset for one power, it's noone's fault but your own if that power turns out to be unbalanced (and likely why many took it in the first place).

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Blame the victim. People take whatever seems like it will be best for them or their groups. For instance, illusionists complain about their slow recharge, so they choose rad as a secondary because A.M. overcomes that complaint. Are they evil bad people? No, they get offered choices and pick whatever works best for them.

It's really really callous to suggest that people who try to choose powers that will make them useful are somehow to blame when the devs decide a power is TOO useful.

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There are plenty of people who keep on saying that Hasten can be useful situationally. Hasten does not absolutely have to be on all the time for it to be of any use. That's ludicrous. If you feel that absolute rule, is true in case of your character, that's fine. But when you speak on a macro level like this, you have to look past your own nose.

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But it applies to my own nose. This is how the change has effected my character. So they either need to reduce how this effects Dark Melee scrappers, or change it back but nerf those ATs that WERE capable of abusing the power in other ways.

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What other drawback could their possibly be fore Hasten that would make it balanced? The ONLY thing Hasten does is increase the recharge rate of EVERY power you have. Thus, the recharge time of EVERY power is reduced. To make use of this reduced recharge time, one has to have enough endurance to use the powers which are now ready to use quicker. If this power were to be on ALL THE TIME with little enhancement, this would be mean that you would have to have enough endurance to activate it all the time. Combined with the need to have enough endurance to use the now very quickly recharging powers, what you are demanding is infinite endurance so you can use Hasten and these powers infinitely.
This is totally UNREASONABLE and TOTALLY UNBALANCING.

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At what point did I even HINT at increasing endurance? That'd be insane. In beta, with Quickness, Hasten, and Focused Fighting running, I still rarely ran out of endurance in a fight, due to endurance SOs and Stamina. I had endurance to spare. I wouldn't mind if Hasten worked like it used to, in exchange it would begin eting away at that spare endurance such that it was once again as tight, or tighter, than it was at lower levels, with lesser enhancements and no Stamina.

THAT is balance, because it allows me to keep the power running properly, but it's up to me to decide how to deal with the costs. Do I NEED Stamina? Could I use more Endurance SOs? Could I just ration out the uses of my attacks so that I don't burn out too quickly? Do I just burn myself out in less than a minute and spend the next minute recovering endurance? It's up to me, but whatever I choose, it's balanced out.

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As for Hasten, sorry if this sounds blunt, but if it's vital enough that you need it all the time, then obviously it should be worth 6 slots to you.

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I have numerous powers that are vital enough to use all the time but that I don't see reason to put six slots in. In fact, I don't really have ANY powers that I use less than "most of the time". For example, Quickness I only had it's default slot, Practiced Brawlers only had three (and could have gotten away with less), Focused Fighting only had three, TP Foe only had 2, Invisibility only had its default one, and in none of those powers, powers which I used constantly and doubt I could have gotten by with the loss of any of them, would I find it a rational use of slots to put more slots onto them than I did.

ok iam not sure if this was posted or not but iam having a huge problem with aexcelrate metabolism (spelled it wrong) but its recharge time is way way way to long now befor it would recharge about 10 secs after my duration would end fine with that and i have a lvl 20 recharge do on it now it takes like 3 mins to recharge over its 1 mins recharge time and its durations seems a bit messed up it seems like it either sticks for 20 sec to about 50 secs not nearly long enough for it to be useful

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...who clearly have no grasp of even the most basic concepts of game balance and game design, no matter how loudly they may shout...

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So its game balance that I spend half my time sitting around waiting for end to regen? Do you spend half your time sitting around waiting for end?

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I am a stone/stone tanker, and yes, I spend a lot of time waiting for my endurance to regenerate. The Stone defense primary power pool has toggle powers and quick on and off armor powers that drain A LOT of endurance. Do I come on the boards because I have down time in game, NO. Does a few seconds of downtime between every other fight or so, decrease my level of fun, NO. Would having the ability to use every attack every battle forever and ever without worrying about endurance during or after be fun, NO.

All of you people whining about the "nerfs" to haste and accelerate metabolism want to have your cake and eat it to.

No challange = unbalanced = NO FUN. Challange = balance = MORE FUN.

/flame proof suit on

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Well, a Tanker flaming the Defender community need not put on a flame proof suit. Not only are we used to it by now, we actually don't have any fire-type powers.

What always is the most shocking to me is the fact you think Defenders are trying to get a good endo regen just for themselves. We're trying to get you your cake.

If I wanted to solo, I'd play a Blaster, or Scrapper, or Tank. My whole beef on the AM timer is the fact I can't keep buffs up on my team .

Even if I don't get to use it on myself, let me at least buff my team.

I realize stacking made it overpowerful, so just don't allow this power to be stacked.

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I know Defenders and Controllers who want to drop the entire rad powerset now. Can they switch to Empathy? And when you nerf that can they switch to Storm? Can they switch archetypes once you've nerfed ALL support powers?

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Why would they want to drop the whole set when only its' secondary (at best) effect was rebalanced? It still has 3 awesome debuffs, a pretty darn good heal, the best combat rez in the game...

The only people I can understand wanting to drop the whole set would be those who took it for AM alone. And, well, if you take a whole powerset for one power, it's noone's fault but your own if that power turns out to be unbalanced (and likely why many took it in the first place).

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blah blah blah maiden, the same tripe over and over. look, its simple, maybe people DO NOT value readiation emission the same as you do. maybe they only liked AM. what gives you the right to judge them on this fact? you do it nonstop. your drivel is becoming too much to handle. how is it their fault? your words, their fault. its their fault they chose a power because of how it worked? get over yourself maiden.

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I am a stone/stone tanker, and yes, I spend a lot of time waiting for my endurance to regenerate. The Stone defense primary power pool has toggle powers and quick on and off armor powers that drain A LOT of endurance.

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ahh yes? that 0.2 end drain makes you rest a lot and we rad defenders with toggles taking 3 and 6 per tick have no right to complain?
it's completely fair our toggles take 15 times and 30 times as much as yours?
come again?

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blah blah blah maiden, the same tripe over and over. look, its simple, maybe people DO NOT value readiation emission the same as you do. maybe they only liked AM. what gives you the right to judge them on this fact? you do it nonstop. your drivel is becoming too much to handle. how is it their fault? your words, their fault. its their fault they chose a power because of how it worked? get over yourself maiden.

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So you don't have anything constructive to add?

The biggest thing seems to be that this patch was to "balance" for the high levels while totally ignoring the rest of us (most of their playing base).

I was just reading a post about hasten in controller setup written by another Illusion/Radiation controller. His point was that it's still "that good" but you won't notice until you have 6 slots with SO enhancers in it so keep with the exp grind...

Since he's nowhere near as critical as some of us (he's in his 30's) this tells me that the devs are totally out of touch with the people who can't play as often.

WHY should I have to put SIX slots and SIX Single-origin enhancers into a first-tier power pool power in order for it to work for me? This is called BAD DESIGN. During beta we thought hasten might be a bit strong but were assured it was working as intended. Accelerate Metabolism was never mentioned at all.

Nerfing a power anyone can access and which adds to the fun of gameplay two weeks after you said you woudn't is WRONG. Nerfing a power which adds to the fun of gameplay for an entire party and which is nice enough to make people choose it as a primary/secondary (not the ONLY reason -- people like the debuffs and the ae heal in radiation even though they cost SO MUCH end to use) is WRONG.

This game went from something I had preordered for several months to the biggest disappointment in my MMORPG history thanks to the devs "fixing" things (like you would "fix" a pet I think).
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Is it worth it to me to subscribe to a game where I can do a useful design and not have to scramble to the level cap in order to use the design right? Yes!

Is it worth it to me to subscribe to a game where two of the powers my design uses in order to be valid are nerfed into uselessness until I'm AT that level cap? No!

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The biggest thing seems to be that this patch was to "balance" for the high levels while totally ignoring the rest of us (most of their playing base).

I was just reading a post about hasten in controller setup written by another Illusion/Radiation controller. His point was that it's still "that good" but you won't notice until you have 6 slots with SO enhancers in it so keep with the exp grind...

Since he's nowhere near as critical as some of us (he's in his 30's) this tells me that the devs are totally out of touch with the people who can't play as often.

WHY should I have to put SIX slots and SIX Single-origin enhancers into a first-tier power pool power in order for it to work for me? This is called BAD DESIGN. During beta we thought hasten might be a bit strong but were assured it was working as intended. Accelerate Metabolism was never mentioned at all.

Nerfing a power anyone can access and which adds to the fun of gameplay two weeks after you said you woudn't is WRONG. Nerfing a power which adds to the fun of gameplay for an entire party and which is nice enough to make people choose it as a primary/secondary (not the ONLY reason -- people like the debuffs and the ae heal in radiation even though they cost SO MUCH end to use) is WRONG.

This game went from something I had preordered for several months to the biggest disappointment in my MMORPG history thanks to the devs "fixing" things (like you would "fix" a pet I think).
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Is it worth it to me to subscribe to a game where I can do a useful design and not have to scramble to the level cap in order to use the design right? Yes!

Is it worth it to me to subscribe to a game where two of the powers my design uses in order to be valid are nerfed into uselessness until I'm AT that level cap? No!

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To make is really damn good! Not *nice*. But as good as 2.5 SOs on for about 80% of the time.

It's is still *very* *very* powerful, but you have to allocate a lot to get that power and you can't do it at 6th.

making hasten and accelerate metabolics have a slower charge has gimped my character. i would be much happier if u changed it back or made a little faster then it is in the newest patch

I personally am frustrated as a Mutation Controller. Changing the telekinesis power has ruined my 2 characters. For me this has spoiled that game enough to make it not worth playing. After devoting so much time just to get my characters up to lvl 12 I don't want to have to start all over again. Not to mention pay $15 a months.

I think it is sad that so many game companies do not have game designers that know how to balance the numbers before the game is published. As a 3d modeler for a game company I find balancing of games after shipping date very frustrating. I think gimping players characters is a lamn way to fix a problem.

Because controllers are so week to start the changes have made the game so much less fun. While teams love to have me on their side for healing and putting people to sleep i am tired of just levitating and dominating people. While everyone else is raining acid my character can't do any damage.

Your solution to the Hasten and Accelerated Metabolism problem (if you agree that there IS a problem especially with AM) takes the wrong approach. The timers are now so long that AM (I do not have hasten) has been changed from a power that I actually use, to one that I only consider in an emergency. I find that I am "saving" it and therefor, I hardly ever use it at all. It would be MUCH better to decrease its power and keep the recharge time. Then at higher levels, you can boost its effects and chooses which ones to increase!

You say that this is a Great Buff but it is the Rad secondary Only buff........and not used at that! Please rethink your approach and consider this when you start to change the other powers. A reduction is strenght is better than to make it essentially useless.

Just recently found this thread through the dev tracker.

I have no idea how much AM gives boost to regen and other abilities, all I know I can't pretty much use it at all without adding a ton recharge reducers on it - something I won't and can't do as my other powers require them much more for endurance cost reduction - I have noticed you need at least 3 DO endurance reducers on all defender toggles to have any real effect.

I admit, I made a mistake and picked the power that is pretty much useless to me now which wasn't the case earlier. Earlier I used it both as a regen buff to reduce downtime - which is long for a solo defender, but not an issue in groups - and as a run speed buff to get around faster without transport powers. Now I don't use it for anything else but boss battles in hopes I don't run out of endurance before I manage to take the boss down - though I admit bosses are supposed to be hard and require a lot inspirations and powers to defeat.

I would rather see its effects being very minor than it taking forever to recharge - a power that you can use only once per mission, twice if it is a long one, is rather useless. Heck, change it to another toggle power that gives a minor boost and I'd be happy as I can't blast in groups anyways without running out of endurance while keeping up enervating field and using radiant aura. That way the endurance regen wouldn't benefit defender, but would still benefit his allies, making it a great group power. Its other benefits would still help defender which would make it useful for solo situations, too (especially in kiting).

All my defenders have a few mins downtime if I face a group of equal con baddies of numbers greater than two, because then I use enervating field and taking down three mobs with it sucks up all my endurance +usually one catch a breath. Yet, I don't think AM should be answer to this problem as that would help only radiation defenders and - like I said - all defenders that I have played (dark/dark, storm/dark, rad/rad, storm/elec) suffer from inability to use their primaries efficiently in solo fight due the fact they have huge endurance cost - I often run out of endurance with fighting only three even con mobs if I use more than one toggle.

Currently AM favors setting where you *need* to place recharge reducers on it. I'd rather see a situation where you can recast it fast and *if* you want to enhance its effects, you add +regen +speed +whatever enhancements to it - a buff/debuff power you can use more often for a lesser effect is better than a power you can use less but for a greater effect. At least for us casual gamers who don't want to stand around all day doing nothing while waiting power to recharge.