Werner

I'd probably go with Dual Blades/Willpower. It's very solid and easy to play without all the clicking effort of Regen. Of course, if you LIKE taking a more active role in your survival, Regen is a great set too.

Like most scrappers, it gets better.

A LOT better.

My BS/SD has been great (currently 47). I soft cap melee with one Parry, and ranged and AoE are around 33% I think. I do have the Steadfast Protection and Kismet uniques, but that's it for “set” bonuses. Other than that, I have frankenslotted attacks and a mixture of SOs and common IOs. It's very very solid, perhaps my most solid character at that level. I think I remember Werner being better, but I can't remember which version of Regeneration he was using in the 40s, so it probably doesn't count. Other than that, I think BS/SD is my most solid scrapper yet at that level, and probably from the 30s on.

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I hate using any power as a mule for set bonuses.

[/ QUOTE ]
Me too. It always seems like such a waste of slots. It seems easier to avoid in high end builds, but maybe it's just because I have less experience with moderate-budget builds.

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For regular gameplay it is VERY easy to get the regen to phenomenal levels, but your problem will always be how do you manage the Alpha.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, Moment of Glory is now the alpha-taker of choice, but I think we're trying to avoid using that click except when the choice is it or death. So I'd use Dull Pain as the normal alpha-taker. Don't click it up front, though. Jump into combat, take some of the alpha, then click it. Against really tough odds, this will become a split second timing exercise that may take some experience before you stop either face planting because you hit it too late, or face planting because you hit it too soon. But once you have it down, you should be able to absorb an alpha in excess of your buffed hit points.

[ QUOTE ]
So yeah, while I wouldn't build it the same way Werner has, I've learnt to trust the man.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, but yeah, I wouldn't build it that way either. It's not a top-tier build. On the other hand, it's probably better than what most people are running around with. For that matter, so was the original build that Speed Force posted, as mine was only moderately different. Both have a lowish but noticeable amount of defense, a lot of recharge, perma Dull Pain, and all of the clicks. Those are kind of the Regen basics. On the primary side, both can run the top end Dark Melee chain, albeit with less than top end damage output due to the semi-budget slotting.

Oh, and ignore the levels at which I took powers in the build I posted. I'm usually too lazy to go back and fix that. Put the powers where they make sense to you.

I generally start with the primary/secondary, and then fiddle forever in the costume creator until something jumps out at me. The look then defines the character, and everything flows from there.

[ QUOTE ]
SR pared with DM is a demigod able to solo most content in the game. Okay maybe I'm exaggerating alittle...

[/ QUOTE ]
No, no, sounds about right.

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What it lacks vs shield it brings a huge 95% defense debuff resistance which is huge.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've heard that Shields is capable of 85% to 90% defense debuff resistance on maxed-out builds, so this advantage for Super Reflexes is probably overstated in general.

I think it's mostly down to budget. On a low to mid level budget, go with Super Reflexes because it's easier to soft cap. On a high budget, go with Shields because maxed out, it's frickin' amazing.

[ QUOTE ]
(qr)
[ QUOTE ]
wait until the price settles again and list a stack of 10 for 100K or something to protect the market from Ebilness.


[/ QUOTE ]

About this: I had a "shock absorber" in place heroside for about 15 months, I think. Each type of midrange salvage, either 10 bids at 1100 or 10 for sale at 19K. Log on once or twice a day- if I bought low, I would list high, and if I sold high I'd bid low.

Sometimes it actually worked- I'd log on and see that I sold six Improved Cybernetics at 19K (and then someone came along and replenished the supply.) USually a price spike would go right through my little shock absorber and stop at 50K, or 100K, or whatever- I don't know where it stopped, I only got to see the price as it was going by.

Any antigouging types want to do this? It's easy. It just requires a little tending. Salvage prices are up a little- might want to put the "Too high" at 50K or something. Some weeks nothing goes out of bounds at all. It just takes 12 market slots and the desire to actually do something about a perceived problem, other than complain.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've been doing that for a few months now, but I'm sure it would be qualified here as “gouging” rather than “making sure there's always SOME supply”. One of my toons uses every marketing slot for different stacks of 10 common salvage. Buy at 550 (nobody gets shafted worse than the store), sell at whatever seems high enough that they won't sell for a while, since I only log in that character every few weeks.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm one of those who feel there's not such a thing as I in TEAM. If the designated leader gives an order, you obey it. The people mentioning the marines, navy, army or whatever previously must know that if you do not follow orders, you'll get punished for insubordination. In CoH the closest to dishonourable discharge is /kick, so that's what I'm always supporting after the scrapper has been given a few warnings.

[/ QUOTE ]
Orders? Obey? Insubordination? Dishonorable?

Wow.

Those are not exactly words or a mindset that I associate with having fun. So yeah, there's another reason I solo. I don't want to be ordered around in a GAME by someone who might be happier as a drill-sergeant.

Not to say I can't follow directions. I was an old-school Hami raider where a very high level of coordination was required. I did what I was told. But I understood the NECESSITY of doing so. But the normal PvE game? If I'm on a team that can't handle regular missions without ordering people around, I'm on a bad team. So I guess we're in agreement – either you kick me, or I'll quit. Either way, we'll both be happier.

Seriously, this "teaming" thing is sounding less and less pleasant the farther we go in this thread.

I'd probably say for low to middle budget, go with Super Reflexes. It's easier to make awesome. Above that, go with Shield Defense. It's harder, but awesomer.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the information....how does shield stack up to SR for soloing?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's an excellent choice, but likely requires a higher budget to do the job due to the greater difficulty in soft-capping the build.

OK, here's my shot at it. Perma Dull Pain plus 820% regeneration for 82.5 hit points per second, plus Siphon Life as used in the chain healing another 39.6 hit points per second. So about 122.1 hit points per second of “passive” regeneration.

Now, that may sound just like your number, but there are some differences. First, even if your spammed Siphon Life in your build as fast as you could, you'd only be hitting it every 3.43 + (roundup(1.93/.132)+1)*.132 = 5.54 seconds, not every 4 seconds. And 220.3 HP every 5.54 seconds = 39.8 HP/sec, added to your base regeneration of 72.6 HP/sec = 112.4 HP/sec. The other difference is that I'm calculating Siphon Life as it is used in your attack chain (every 6.73 seconds), not being spammed as fast as it can and interrupting your attack chain. The idea, again, being that you're mimicking regeneration with it, not treating it as a heal.

When Instant Healing is up, they get almost exactly the same regeneration. But I was trying to get you to where you had the best regeneration without the clicks (other than perma Dull Pain, which I figure counts as old school).

Let's see... Shadow Maul is now a usable attack, you have Stamina instead of Dark Consumption, again to spend less time interrupting your chain. I think the chain itself will do marginally more damage.

Melee defense is a little higher, but wasn't really emphasized.

It's not exactly a powergamer build, but it sounds like it doesn't need to be. I think it would be perfectly serviceable.

I also wouldn't call what I did polished. Kind of a rush job, and there's probably plenty of room for improvement.

Anyway, here it is.

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I find myself curious, as a marketeer, as to the number of my fellows who have their particular niches in which they earn the majority of their inf, and the rest is just fluff in the pillowcase.

[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoy finding niches more than exploiting them.
Once I prove to myself that something works, I ditch it and go looking for something else.

But in my experience this is very atypical marketeer behavior.
Most folk find a rich vein and mine it until it runs dry.

[/ QUOTE ]
I mine it until it runs dry, while it's dry, and until things cycle back around and it's seriously productive again. I'm too lazy to spend five minutes finding another niche.

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They never get the fact, that people do know how to do it correctly they just don't like it.

[/ QUOTE ]
So... you're saying that the people complaining about price gouging KNOW that if they just put in a reasonable bid and wait, often for just minutes, but occasionally for longer, they'll get the item? But they don't do it because they hate waiting? So they either vastly overpay (thus rewarding the gouger) or don't buy it at all, and then come to the market forum to complain?

I'm failing to see how this presents them in a better light than before.

Often, people can't help being ignorant or unintelligent. We might not like it, but we can't exactly blame them. All we can try to do is educate them. If you're saying they know better, but do it anyway, well, then I guess they're even more deserving of mockery than we already believed.

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The market rewards patience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a video game, Patience isnt the prime characteristic of the demographic.

If you want to appeal to patient people troll the Chess forums or the Go Boards.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's an MMO. It takes hundreds of hours to make serious progress. That's WAY more than a Chess or Go game. This isn't a game for twitch gamers. It's a game for patient people willing to put in a lot of effort. The game rewards patience, whether that's the market or leveling up. So you're saying the demographic is willing to put in a hundred hours to level up, but not to wait five minutes for a bid to fill?

I'm sure that's true of some people, but I highly doubt is characteristic of the whole demographic. If I'm wrong, it sounds like my demographic needs to find a different game. Maybe a good shooter with all the cheat codes to get the best equipment NAO.

Claws/Super Reflexes is probably most popular with the powergamers. But it's hard to go wrong with scrapper combinations.

Emphasizing hit points is old school. Emphasizing typed defense is new school. Either approach (and generally, a mixture of both) will give you a very solid scrapper.

My suspicion is that the hit point approach is safer, in the sense of it having a nice, linear relationship to survivability. It's hard to mess up. And I'm guessing the defense approach is better if you have a big budget, know what you're doing, and seriously go for it. But I haven't done any real comparisons, so I don't know for sure.

Sets can give a major improvement if you know what you're doing. Otherwise, I'd say it would certainly still be noticeable, but less so.

I don't exemplar much at all, so I'd be starting at level 47. I usually don't even have a plan in place at that point. But good point for those that exemplar regularly. If you can afford it, and you want, say, level 35 set IOs on your final build, by all means start slottng at 32.

[ QUOTE ]
So looking around, what would be the RICH mans leveling build?

[/ QUOTE ]
For me, about the same, but maybe with mostly SOs and a little frankenslotting of attacks in the 30s. I don't see much point in spending influence on sets while I'm leveling. I see sets as something I do when I hit 50 as a way of continuing my progress after the leveling runs out.

[ QUOTE ]
At this point it is like they took Super Reflexes and suddenly changed it into a resistance set but left Elude as some sort of short term defensive buff in order to attempt to justfy the name of the powerset.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. It's as if they did that THREE YEARS AGO, and then someone returns to the game and insists they should change it back because it's what they were used to three years ago, and that defense is a better mechanic for a set called "Super Reflexes."

Regen is what it is now, even if “self-empathy” would be a better name for the set. You don't overturn three years worth of playing history just because you weren't here for it and just because the name doesn't match the set as well as it used to.

But you're right, perhaps it could be addressed with power options rather than a completely different power set. As I keep repeating, I don't have anything against you playing what you want to play. I just don't want what I'm playing to be changed (again) after three years of playing it in approximately the same form it's in right now.

[ QUOTE ]
How come when people come in here to "complain" as you guys say, about the market, yall jump down their throat. THEN when they go to defend themselves and others like them, you feel like you need to force your opinion down their throats and sway them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Here's my analogy, and it's one I used before. Let's say that many of the people in the game believe that if a tanker taunts an enemy, then they get all the XP, and the other teammates don't. So they go to the tanker forum to complain, and to insist that all tankers stop selfishly using taunt. At first, the tankers just explain that that's not how it works, and then in more and more detail as more and more people complain. Guides are written explaining the XP and aggro mechanics of the game. How taunting onto the character best able to handle the incoming damage benefits the whole team and makes XP flow faster for everyone. But the misconception turns out to be very persistent. “I was on a team, and the tanker leveled when nobody else did!” “How can you horrible tanker regulars steal XP from the casual players like that?” No amount of explanation makes it go away. Eventually, the tanker forum regulars just give up and resort to mockery. They start calling themselves ebil taunters. Some brag about all the XP they've stolen even though they don't believe it. No thread is safe. Everything devolves.

Now, I've certainly phrased that in such a way that the truth is on the side of the taunting tankers. But we could assert the opposite. Maybe the tanker taunt haters are actually right, and the taunt tankers are suffering from some sort of mass delusion. Maybe they have a great general understanding of aggro and XP mechanics, but are missing some critical flaws in their analysis. Some of them may even be misrepresenting the situation intentionally. But even if so, the vast majority of the taunting tanks don't believe it to be true, have a serious understanding of aggro and XP mechanics, and feel that they're not just in the right, but are obviously in the right with a vast bulk of evidence to back them up.

So regardless of where the truth stands, what do you expect to happen to people going to the tanker forum to discuss XP and their dislike of taunt? They're going to get mocked. The tankers are SICK of it. They've heard it all before and they're ready to scream they're so sick of it.

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
They always suspect they're being taken advantage of when dealing with the market (and sometimes they're right).

[/ QUOTE ]
How so, when THEY determine the price they pay?
Or are they somehow griefing themselves, in your bizarre alternate world?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if everyone lists the item for a certain amount, and that is my fundamental problem with the Market. I can list what I WANT to pay till I'm blue in the face, but if no one sells it for that, I'll never get it, even if it is a reasonable amount.

[/ QUOTE ]
If no player in the game is willing to sell to you for your offer, or if every other player in the game is willing to pay more than your offer, then I would conclude that your offer was not reasonable, even if it was the most you were, yourself, willing to pay.

[ QUOTE ]
I calculate the gap at .116 seconds. Is that gonna matter?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's not going to matter. Best I got using my DPS template build was a one tick gap as well, and I'm still very suspicious it's the best chain Claws can get.

However, I'd put the Hecatomb set in Follow Up and finish it off with a Mako's acc/dam/end/rech. It's slightly better accuracy, damage, endurance AND recharge. Then put the Crushing Impacts in Slash. Better accuracy, damage and endurance, and it doesn't need the lost recharge.

[ QUOTE ]
So pardon me for offending you but I am going to be sending complaint emails to the devs as often as I can asking for the set to be returned to the concept that I actually selected on the game's release day or at the very least an opportunity to select a different secondary as Regen currently has almost no resemblance to what I picked on the day that character was created.

[/ QUOTE ]
Being able to select a different secondary seems like a reasonable solution for your situation, but I don't believe they've allowed that in the entire history of the game, so I suspect that you're wasting your time. Knock yourself out asking, though.

As far as returning the set to the original concept, just because you've been absent for years doesn't mean the game stopped while you were gone. You now have people who have been playing new Regen for years, and who love it. What makes you so important or so representative of overall player opinion that we should roll back the clock for you?

Not that it will ever happen, but I won't complain if they added “Regen Classic” as a new primary and offered a one-time-only ability to respec into it. I have absolutely nothing against you having the opportunity to play what you loved. I just don't want you to change the set that I love so that you have that opportunity.

As for the original subject, which we're quite astray from, I can just repeat what I said earlier. I don't think the set needs a buff, but I don't think a some regen and recharge debuff resistance would make it overpowered either. I'm fine either way.

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
To be honest I don't think they care how long it took you me or anyone else it did to build out their characters. They just want to do it quicker and with a more enjoyable way of doing it. In real life I laugh at that attitude but this is a game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I laugh at people who have that attitude in an MMO. The entire point of persistent worlds is that you keep what you get, and therefore it takes something to get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole point of entertainment is that its entertaining.

[/ QUOTE ]
And MMOs are typically a particular KIND of entertainment – time sinks designed to keep you on the treadmill, laboring endlessly for that next level, that next piece of loot, that next shiny.

Now, I think we can have constructive arguments about how steep the treadmill should be and how long you have to run on it before you get that next shiny. There's certainly plenty of disagreement on that, and the devs have to make some choice, knowing that the choice won't be ideal for many or even most players' entertainment dollar.

But if someone isn't entertained by running on a treadmill chasing the next cool thing, then perhaps MMOs aren't for them.

OK, I think we can agree on the compromise you brushed on. We'll make a set called “Regen Classic” or something. It'll play just like old Regen, just scaled down so that it's in balance with everything else. Maybe the devs can give all Regens a special token that they can use that will allow them to do one respec to change to “Regen Classic” if they choose. It doesn't bother me that people want to play “Regen Classic”. What bothers me is that they want to turn my beloved “New Regen” into “Regen Classic”.

It's probably never going to happen, but maybe it's one way to make everyone happy, not just one of the two camps.

(edit: And sorry about the earlier tone. For some reason, I've been uncharacteristically confrontational recently. Not sure why.)

[ QUOTE ]
If I was team leader and you were running unnecessarily quickly into battle and putting the rest of the team to any kind of risk, I would give you three warnings before kicking you from the team.

I can almost guarantee that one or more other members of the party would then congratulation me on my patience in allowing you the opportunity to curb your impulsive behavior.

I know, because I have had to do this on more than one occasion.

If I wasn't leader, and I saw you repeatedly putting the team at risk. I would say something. If there wasn't a change, then I would simply quit the team and find/start another one.

Once you are on a team, it isn't just about you. You aren't solo. You are part of a team. Act like it.

[/ QUOTE ]
And this is part of why I mostly solo. Lots of people have VERY specific ideas about what a team should do and what powers team members should have, and often, these ideas are VERY different from person to person. You can get kicked from a team for doing what the last team insisted you do.

Screw it. I can kill almost everything in this game solo. So that's what I do. Or play with people I know that have complementary teaming styles. The small teams I'm more routinely on don't talk (at least about what we're doing) and don't slow down. We know how each other play. We know exactly what to expect. We don't rush into battle because we're impulsive. We rush into battle because we're experienced.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are actively defending that you don't need a power that would help protect your teammates, I have to ask how is it job minded to ignore your teammates?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I still think that you would want to protect your friends if you could, but maybe I'm wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
Who said we're ignoring our teammates and don't want to protect our friends? Oh, that's right, skipping a defensive power is de-facto evidence. No more needs to be said. Case closed.

Like I said, keep the hell away from my blasters with that thing. Focus on killing what's causing me trouble, or even just killing, not on trying to keep me in your tiny little range and inviting me to get splashed with AoEs. Or take Leadership so that I don't have to stay so close to you, and Tactics and Assault can help me do what I do best – kill things. I'm a squishy. That doesn't mean I'm a total feeb that can't deal with a couple minions that sneak out of the main group.

I took Grant Cover on my scrapper, but it's for buffing the tanker, not for protecting the squishies IMHO.