Its just easier to do a WP build instead. As much as I want old school regen back there is no way to do it without butchering a build.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Well this character was created the day the game went live five years ago and is already 50th level.
I'm just trying to find a way to make it enjoyable to play rather than deleting it.
(And I have no intention of starting over with a new /WP character so that option is out.)
Just so you know this is something I already tried to put together and I just couldnt do it without gimping the build by having so many extra powers you will never use or powers that dont get full enhancement. I will be impressed if you can pull this off and get +800% regeneration and still be functional without using instant healing. Maybe the others can offer some suggestions.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Let me start by saying welcome back to game, I hope you enjoy your stay with us!
That said the first thing I noticed when opening your build is that Hasten is not perma, which translates to Dull Pain not being perma. While Hasten is up the +Recharge it provides brings it's recharge to 128s with an up time of 120s; however, since there is an eight second gap in those numbers the +Recharge will wear off before Hasten will trigger again. that leaves you with these numbers for Hasten and Dull Pain:
Hasten - Uptime: 120s, Downtime: 159.8s
Dull Pain - Uptime: 120s, Downtime: 128.6s
Somehow you need to find a way to snag another 8 seconds worth of recharge to keep Hasten, and Dull Pain perma.
In fiddling around with the build I really can't get Hasten perma without losing your 722% Regeneration rate. So while I don't agree with Ryu on the idea of just making a Willpower character you can't easily get to the old levels of /Regen. Sorry.
[ QUOTE ]
Let me start by saying welcome back to game, I hope you enjoy your stay with us!
That said the first thing I noticed when opening your build is that Hasten is not perma, which translates to Dull Pain not being perma. While Hasten is up the +Recharge it provides brings it's recharge to 128s with an up time of 120s; however, since there is an eight second gap in those numbers the +Recharge will wear off before Hasten will trigger again. that leaves you with these numbers for Hasten and Dull Pain:
Hasten - Uptime: 120s, Downtime: 159.8s
Dull Pain - Uptime: 120s, Downtime: 128.6s
Somehow you need to find a way to snag another 8 seconds worth of recharge to keep Hasten, and Dull Pain perma.
In fiddling around with the build I really can't get Hasten perma without losing your 722% Regeneration rate. So while I don't agree with Ryu on the idea of just making a Willpower character you can't easily get to the old levels of /Regen. Sorry.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I see your point about Hasten not being permanent, I don't see how Dull Pain could have the recharge gap you are describing.
Currently, the amount of total recharge time for DP is only 128.6 seconds with Hasten completely turned off. As in, never having been on at all.
Hasten also reduces it's own cooldown for every second that it is up and by my estimate currently would have a downtime of 13.6 seconds before reactivating based upon both the total global recharge and the recharge buff it is granting itself while up.
Assuming that Hasten would be running for approximately 85% of the time and consequently reducing the recharge time for DP every second that it is up, it should easily bring DP into perma status (barring -recharge attacks).
Now If I want to spend a completely crazy amount of influence on the build and start throwing purples at it I can get Hasten pushed to about 10 seconds of total downtime.
Of course that pushes this build up in the 2 billion+ inf range which makes it insanely expensive (and about a billion past my total Inf from all my characters combined.)
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
speed force: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Fitness
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(21), T'Death-Acc/Dmg(23)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(3), Numna-Heal(5), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Dmg-I(A), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(13), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Cloud-%Dam(25)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 6: Reconstruction -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Dct'dW-Heal(34)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- HO:Nucle(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(9), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(9), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Theft-Heal(31), Theft-Heal/Rchg(42)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal(31)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(17), HO:Golgi(19)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(19), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Dmg(40)
Level 20: Boxing -- Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(A), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(43), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(45), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(45), Amaze-Stun(46)
Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), ImpArm-ResDam(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- RechRdx-I(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Numna-Heal/Rchg(29)
Level 30: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg(34), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 35: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(39), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(42), Heal-I(42)
Level 44: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Whirlwind -- KinCrsh-Dmg/KB(A), KinCrsh-Acc/KB(48), KinCrsh-Rchg/KB(48), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(48), KinCrsh-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(50), KinCrsh-Acc/Dmg/KB(50)
Level 49: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]3% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]3% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]3% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]3% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]3% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]3% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]3% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]3% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]4.88% Defense(Smashing)[*]4.88% Defense(Lethal)[*]3% Defense(Fire)[*]3% Defense(Cold)[*]3% Defense(Energy)[*]3% Defense(Negative)[*]4.88% Defense(Psionic)[*]6.75% Defense(Melee)[*]3% Defense(Ranged)[*]3% Defense(AoE)[*]6.3% Max End[*]8% Enhancement(Heal)[*]54% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]96.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]35.1 HP (2.62%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -3)[*]Knockup (Mag -3)[*]MezResist(Confused) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Held) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 5.25%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Stun) 4.7%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 6.9%[*]17% (0.28 End/sec) Recovery[*]110% (6.15 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]2.5% Resistance(Smashing)[*]10.1% Resistance(Fire)[*]10.1% Resistance(Cold)[*]8% RunSpeed[/list]
However, since the total recharge in the original build should easily keep DP running 100% of the time I don't see the need to add 2 billion Inf to the build just to gain a rather trivial amount of extra +recharge bonus (13.5%)
[ QUOTE ]
Currently, the amount of total recharge time for DP is only 128.6 seconds with Hasten completely turned off. As in, never having been on at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, that's what I said in the last post too, 8.6s off of perma without Hasten ever existing.
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that Hasten would be running for almost 90% of the time and consequently reducing the recharge time for DP every second that it is up, it should easily bring DP into perma status (barring -recharge attacks).
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think that recharge works that way, Dull Pain is only getting the Recharge Bonus that makes it perma when Hasten is running. The game should stop providing Dull Pain the effect the second Hasten turns off, you may have to test to prove or disprove that, but that's how it should work.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Currently, the amount of total recharge time for DP is only 128.6 seconds with Hasten completely turned off. As in, never having been on at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, that's what I said in the last post too, 8.6s off of perma without Hasten ever existing.
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that Hasten would be running for almost 90% of the time and consequently reducing the recharge time for DP every second that it is up, it should easily bring DP into perma status (barring -recharge attacks).
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think that recharge works that way, Dull Pain is only getting the Recharge Bonus that makes it perma when Hasten is running. The game should stop providing Dull Pain the effect the second Hasten turns off, you may have to test to prove or disprove that, but that's how it should work.
[/ QUOTE ]
DP is not going to suddenly jump back to a total downtime of 128.6 the instant Hasten drops.
Hasten does stop reducing the recharge timer on DP after it drops but the time remaining on DP doesn't jump all the way back to it's original unenhanced state. The timer picks up with the amount remaining and counts down from there using whatever +recharge modifiers are still in play.
I have seen it work this way on several characters. It's especially obvious with a Radiation character who takes Hasten and Accelerate Metabolism. The two powers develop synergy and work to push each other's timers down.
Edit: and I just tested it on a lvl 6 character with Hasten and no enhancements slotted.
From the time I activated Hasten until it came back up was 6 minutes, 48 seconds as opposed to the base recharge time of 7 minutes and 30 seconds so yes, Hasten is effecting the cooldown timers exactly like I remembered it did.
[ QUOTE ]
Let me start by saying welcome back to game, I hope you enjoy your stay with us!
That said the first thing I noticed when opening your build is that Hasten is not perma, which translates to Dull Pain not being perma. While Hasten is up the +Recharge it provides brings it's recharge to 128s with an up time of 120s; however, since there is an eight second gap in those numbers the +Recharge will wear off before Hasten will trigger again. that leaves you with these numbers for Hasten and Dull Pain:
Hasten - Uptime: 120s, Downtime: 159.8s
Dull Pain - Uptime: 120s, Downtime: 128.6s
Somehow you need to find a way to snag another 8 seconds worth of recharge to keep Hasten, and Dull Pain perma.
[/ QUOTE ]
Someone needs to get the Umbral Primer on Partial Recharge.
When a power such as Hasten goes down in the middle of a power recharging, it does not act as you though. The power will actually maintain its current percent of recharge time gone through and then go through the remaining portion of the leftover percentage at the higher recharge rate. The same applies with going from a lower recharge state to a higher recharge state.
The math for Hasten is, in reality, 120 seconds of uptime and (((120-128)/128*159.8)+120) = 129.9875 seconds for recharge. Hasten would be up for 120 seconds every 131 seconds (because of the activation time). That's 91% uptime and an average contribution of 64.12% +recharge. With Dull Pain packing 180% +recharge from enhancements and set bonuses, this means that it's got 244.12% +recharge to work with. A base recharge of 360 and a duration of 120 seconds means that it requires ((360/120)-1) = 200% recharge to make it permanent, it's easily permanent. In fact, it's got 15.5 seconds of overlap.
Now, as to the OP, if you're looking for a good "set-it-and-forget-it" style */regen build, you're looking in all the wrong places. Rather than trying to tack on an extra 24 hp/sec, you'd be better served making your regeneration start acting on smaller amounts of incoming damage. Damage mitigation multiplies the effectiveness of damage recovery. Your best bet to get damage mitigation to more meaningful levels is +def IO set bonuses.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, as to the OP, if you're looking for a good "set-it-and-forget-it" style */regen build, you're looking in all the wrong places. Rather than trying to tack on an extra 24 hp/sec, you'd be better served making your regeneration start acting on smaller amounts of incoming damage. Damage mitigation multiplies the effectiveness of damage recovery. Your best bet to get damage mitigation to more meaningful levels is +def IO set bonuses.
[/ QUOTE ]
The build currently has 12.2% melee defense which while not "huge" does help to some degree.
My biggest problem with attempting to turn my DM/Regen scrapper into a "Poor man's Super Reflexes" is that frankly I don't want to play a set where my character's survival is based upon +Def and almost nothing else.
That's the reason I passed over SR five years ago in the first place.
While I have no objection to adding +def where I can squeeze it in, I am not looking to build a SR clone.
Ultimately, I just want to play a powerset that "regenerates".
If I can't make it work, then I'll probably just delete the character. I mean If I want to put all my eggs into a +def Basket with a little regen then I might as well just roll up a DM/SR, take Health and some +regen set bonuses and be done with it.
[ QUOTE ]
The build currently has 12.2% melee defense which while not "huge" does help to some degree.
My biggest problem with attempting to turn my DM/Regen scrapper into a "Poor man's Super Reflexes" is that frankly I don't want to play a set where my character's survival is based upon +Def and almost nothing else.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your primary survivability is still based around hefty levels of regeneration. The problem with trying to go with regen and not much else is that it's no longer possible to get to the levels of regeneration that allowed a player to actually run without damage mitigation. The important thing to keep in mind is that you've only got an extra 24 hp/sec when you could have gotten an extra 16% defense to all 3 positions. That 24 hp/sec might seem like a lot, but you've got to consider that it's ignoring IH, Recon, and the heal from Dull Pain in it. That's sheer survivability from an hp/sec standpoint. The problem is that 70 hp/sec isn't really all that much.
The best bet when trying to get additional survivability for a */regen is to just go for +recharge and then +def. There just isn't enough +Regen to actually make a significant difference.
Something to consider is that I've got a DM/Regen and still play him a lot. I've logged more hours on him than I care to count and have done every piece of dev made content available (seriously, I've got the souvenirs to prove it) with him. He's done it all and, unless I'm doing something completely out of the realm of normalcy (soloing 8 man unyielding spawns of Rularuu), I don't have to bother using my click powers. Even then, I only have to use them sparingly.
The big thing to remember is that */regen as it is now will never be the way it used to be. It's active. You're not going to get a really great */regen build that doesn't capitalize on that nature because it's running counter to the set. You just can't get enough +regen from IOs to actually make passive regeneration (rather than click powers) your primary method of survival (keep in mind, if they ever did allow that, it would mean that even Blasters would be able to get above or near where we are now).
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The build currently has 12.2% melee defense which while not "huge" does help to some degree.
My biggest problem with attempting to turn my DM/Regen scrapper into a "Poor man's Super Reflexes" is that frankly I don't want to play a set where my character's survival is based upon +Def and almost nothing else.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your primary survivability is still based around hefty levels of regeneration. The problem with trying to go with regen and not much else is that it's no longer possible to get to the levels of regeneration that allowed a player to actually run without damage mitigation. The important thing to keep in mind is that you've only got an extra 24 hp/sec when you could have gotten an extra 16% defense to all 3 positions. That 24 hp/sec might seem like a lot, but you've got to consider that it's ignoring IH, Recon, and the heal from Dull Pain in it. That's sheer survivability from an hp/sec standpoint. The problem is that 70 hp/sec isn't really all that much.
The best bet when trying to get additional survivability for a */regen is to just go for +recharge and then +def. There just isn't enough +Regen to actually make a significant difference.
Something to consider is that I've got a DM/Regen and still play him a lot. I've logged more hours on him than I care to count and have done every piece of dev made content available (seriously, I've got the souvenirs to prove it) with him. He's done it all and, unless I'm doing something completely out of the realm of normalcy (soloing 8 man unyielding spawns of Rularuu), I don't have to bother using my click powers. Even then, I only have to use them sparingly.
The big thing to remember is that */regen as it is now will never be the way it used to be. It's active. You're not going to get a really great */regen build that doesn't capitalize on that nature because it's running counter to the set. You just can't get enough +regen from IOs to actually make passive regeneration (rather than click powers) your primary method of survival (keep in mind, if they ever did allow that, it would mean that even Blasters would be able to get above or near where we are now).
[/ QUOTE ]
Well that's not quite true as blasters wouldn't have the HPs needed to achieve the same levels of HP per second recovery that a Scrapper with DP is capable of.
Added to that, assuming that Siphon Life hits 90% of the time healing 220 points each hit and is activated once every 4 seconds, it would add an "invisible" 49.5 hit points a second to the overall "regeneration" of the character in melee.
That brings the total "passive" regeneration up to roughly 122 HP/sec which is actually higher than what I used to run with commonly years ago Pre-ED. (when I used to skip Siphon Life as a "worthless" power selection)
Part of the difference in our viewpoints is that I am not looking to be able to solo 8-man instances on Unyielding.
I would be happy to be able to simply solo "Solo" instances on Unyielding again like I used to be able to "Back in the day".
I logged in last month with a build set up with literally dozens of HOs and got creamed repeatedly by a mission I used to clear without breaking a sweat.
And I am not planning on "never" using IH, MoG or Reconstruction. I have no problem with using them as emergency fall back powers, I just don't want to have to be using them in every single encounter just to survive. (which is basically what I am having to do right now.)
Wow, you got to name it? Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to remember that.
OK, here's my shot at it. Perma Dull Pain plus 820% regeneration for 82.5 hit points per second, plus Siphon Life as used in the chain healing another 39.6 hit points per second. So about 122.1 hit points per second of passive regeneration.
Now, that may sound just like your number, but there are some differences. First, even if your spammed Siphon Life in your build as fast as you could, you'd only be hitting it every 3.43 + (roundup(1.93/.132)+1)*.132 = 5.54 seconds, not every 4 seconds. And 220.3 HP every 5.54 seconds = 39.8 HP/sec, added to your base regeneration of 72.6 HP/sec = 112.4 HP/sec. The other difference is that I'm calculating Siphon Life as it is used in your attack chain (every 6.73 seconds), not being spammed as fast as it can and interrupting your attack chain. The idea, again, being that you're mimicking regeneration with it, not treating it as a heal.
When Instant Healing is up, they get almost exactly the same regeneration. But I was trying to get you to where you had the best regeneration without the clicks (other than perma Dull Pain, which I figure counts as old school).
Let's see... Shadow Maul is now a usable attack, you have Stamina instead of Dark Consumption, again to spend less time interrupting your chain. I think the chain itself will do marginally more damage.
Melee defense is a little higher, but wasn't really emphasized.
It's not exactly a powergamer build, but it sounds like it doesn't need to be. I think it would be perfectly serviceable.
I also wouldn't call what I did polished. Kind of a rush job, and there's probably plenty of room for improvement.
Anyway, here it is.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Speed_Force, you would be wise to heed the advice of Umbral and Werner. In the past few months since I started paying attention to the scrapper forums again they have both proven themselves wise in the ways of Regen.
Without some form of mitigation aside from healing you are going to have serious problems with burst damage. In the STF (which didn't exist when you played last) there is an enemy that can deal damage in excess of scrapper HP cap. Which means it can one shot you through Dull Pain. Healing just isn't an option when something will one shot you with your HP maxed.
I hate to say it, but you are never going to get to the levels of regen you had before. It was changed into a click heavy set and is very unlikely to be changed back. If you want passive regeneration without using click powers, roll up a DM/Willpower instead.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Personally I hate using any power as a mule for set bonuses.
But Claws is right, Werner and Umbral are very clever people (though Umbral is frequently grumpy) and very clever in the ways of Math Fu.
Anywho, I never played "old" regen, but my first 50 was claws/regen, and another of my current 50s is BS/regen, so I have deep abiding love of the set.
For regular gameplay it is VERY easy to get the regen to phenomenal levels, but your problem will always be how do you manage the Alpha.
It doesn't matter if you can heal 2409 HP in the next 30 seconds when the alpha hits you for 2410.
Theres a reason that regen has "Revive" as a power option.
So it is VITAL to have that extra mitigation there.
The good news is that Tough, Weave, the Steadfast unique, CJ/Hover and a few set bonuses will buy you more than enough mitigation for most circumstances.
There will be times when you'll need reconstruction and DP, but personally I tend to drop IH in faovour of other powers, specifically new MoG, which is awesome.
So yeah, while I wouldn't build it the same way Werner has, I've learnt to trust the man.
And speaking from experience with "new" regen, you'll never be able to tank the ITF, but you WILL be able to tank when needed.
All it takes is that little extra slice of mitigation.
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I hate using any power as a mule for set bonuses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Me too. It always seems like such a waste of slots. It seems easier to avoid in high end builds, but maybe it's just because I have less experience with moderate-budget builds.
[ QUOTE ]
For regular gameplay it is VERY easy to get the regen to phenomenal levels, but your problem will always be how do you manage the Alpha.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, Moment of Glory is now the alpha-taker of choice, but I think we're trying to avoid using that click except when the choice is it or death. So I'd use Dull Pain as the normal alpha-taker. Don't click it up front, though. Jump into combat, take some of the alpha, then click it. Against really tough odds, this will become a split second timing exercise that may take some experience before you stop either face planting because you hit it too late, or face planting because you hit it too soon. But once you have it down, you should be able to absorb an alpha in excess of your buffed hit points.
[ QUOTE ]
So yeah, while I wouldn't build it the same way Werner has, I've learnt to trust the man.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, but yeah, I wouldn't build it that way either. It's not a top-tier build. On the other hand, it's probably better than what most people are running around with. For that matter, so was the original build that Speed Force posted, as mine was only moderately different. Both have a lowish but noticeable amount of defense, a lot of recharge, perma Dull Pain, and all of the clicks. Those are kind of the Regen basics. On the primary side, both can run the top end Dark Melee chain, albeit with less than top end damage output due to the semi-budget slotting.
Oh, and ignore the levels at which I took powers in the build I posted. I'm usually too lazy to go back and fix that. Put the powers where they make sense to you.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
[ QUOTE ]
Both have a lowish but noticeable amount of defense, a lot of recharge, perma Dull Pain, and all of the clicks. Those are kind of the Regen basics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I was probably long winded about it, but that's exactly what I was saying, mainly about the defense/mitigation (I still call IH skippable, but it's apersonal taste thing, and there are good reasons to disagree)
Theres been a bit of Regen bashing on these forums lately, but the truth is Regen Rocks!
ClawsandEffect - As I said before, I don't have any interest in rebuilding a virtual clone of my scrapper using DM/WP (It would be months before that character saw 50th) so it's either find a build I can respec this character into I can live with or just scrap the scrapper all together.
Werner - Your build is very interesting. You managed to squeeze the total regen past the 800% mark which was actually the goal I was shooting for. It lost a small amount of +recharge though.
But taking some of your ideas into account I've rebalanced my build and gotten it over the 800% regeneration threshold, kept roughly the same level of melee defense you had, Shadow Maul is a useful attack again and still kept Whirlwind in the set.
Yes Whirlwind 
As the character is themed as a "super speedster" I actually added the power on purpose. I also plan to use it to break up large groups a bit when soloing.
The usual tactic would be to run right into the middle of the group (using SS + Stealth, Hit Soul Drain then Whirlwind (for just a moment) to slow the incoming damage for a few seconds.
As Umbral pointed out, an active defense means less damage for Regen to deal with and minions don't tend to do much damage when flying through the air or sitting on their butts.
Not the necessarily the most efficient tactic but it should tend to break up the overall incoming damage to the point where basic regeneration + Siphon Life alone should be able to handle it most of the time. (I also have MoG coming available about once every 90 seconds to help deal with alphas from really nasty looking groups)
The added benefit of having Whirlwind is it gives me a place to put a Force Feedback, chance for +recharge into the build which may help (occasionally) to shore up the gap in Hasten.
Or that's the theory at least...
I'll have to assemble the build before I can see if it can actually work.
If it doesn't pay off then I can respec Whirlwind back out and add Resilience back in.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
speed force: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(3), Numna-Heal(5), RgnTis-Regen+(19), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(48)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(5), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Oblit-%Dam(42)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 6: Reconstruction -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal/Rchg(34), Numna-Heal(34)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- HO:Nucle(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(9), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(9), HO:Golgi(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal(31)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(17), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx(19), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(43), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(45), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(45), Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), ImpArm-ResDam(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 24: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(36), Mrcl-Rcvry+(37), Mrcl-Heal(40)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- RechRdx-I(A), Tr'ge-Heal/Rchg(29), Tr'ge-EndRdx/Rchg(29), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 30: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(39), EndMod-I(46)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(34), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 35: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 44: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50)
Level 47: Whirlwind -- FrcFbk-Rchg/EndRdx(A), FrcFbk-Rechg%(48)
Level 49: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Now the painful part.
Going through four respecs in order to salvage all my HOs (Nucs, Golgies, Micros, Endos, etc.) some set at level 53.
Nice build,
I think you're doing yourself a disservice by dropping Shadow Punch though, you won't have enough recharge for Smite-SL-Smite-MG all the time,
but still very nice build
Ah, just noticed that Midnight Grasp has now gotten too slow. You're shooting for 4.48 seconds, and you're at 4.59. Swap the damage/endurance for damage/endurance/recharge, and you'll be back on target. Ah, and Smite has likewise gotten just a hair too slow as well. I'd replace the accuracy/damage with accuracy/damage/recharge.
And yeah, you won't be able to chain without gaps while Hasten is down. That's about 15 seconds. Chain with gaps, toss in a Shadow Maul, click on some other power, whatever. You'll be fine. I wouldn't bother adding Shadow Punch for those 15 seconds or for the rare occasions you're slowed.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I made the adjustments you suggested and the recharge for those two powers looks to be in line now.
I was basically planning to use Shadow Maul for the filler during the Hasten downtime.
I'll see how it works out in a few days once I can liquidate some HOs and start purchasing the set IOs I need.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
speed force: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(3), Numna-Heal(5), RgnTis-Regen+(19), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(48)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(5), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Oblit-%Dam(42)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 6: Reconstruction -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal/Rchg(34), Numna-Heal(34)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- HO:Nucle(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(9), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(9), HO:Golgi(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal(31)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(17), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx(19), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(43), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(45), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(45), Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), ImpArm-ResDam(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 24: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(36), Mrcl-Rcvry+(37), Mrcl-Heal(40)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- RechRdx-I(A), Tr'ge-Heal/Rchg(29), Tr'ge-EndRdx/Rchg(29), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 30: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(39), EndMod-I(46)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 35: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 44: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50)
Level 47: Whirlwind -- FrcFbk-Rchg/EndRdx(A), FrcFbk-Rechg%(48)
Level 49: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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Think you've still got a slight delay, but I'm not sure,
If you can stretch the budget, get a set of Hecatombs for Smite, which should be all you need at this point, AND up your damage considerably (though that close to perma Soul Drain, and its going to be marvelous anyway)
If we're stretching for purples, I'd have tried to incorporate Laser Beam Eyes with at least two Apocalypse (16% regeneration) to go more with the original regeneration theme. Yeah, purples make a big difference in Smite, plus upping the global recharge. But that would probably eat 2/3 of the budget right there, so it didn't seem practical. It's a good some day, if you find you really love the character again goal.
I'm showing 4.47 seconds in Midnight Grasp (needs 4.48), 2.01 seconds in Smite (needs 2.11) and 3.60 seconds in Siphon Life (needs 4.62). Good to go except when slowed or when Hasten is down, but then it has Shadow Maul and other things to fill in. I think it'll be fine.
I kinda like it. Not what I want to play, but I think it's a good example of what it's supposed to be. I bet it does very well for a compromised for concept build.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
[ QUOTE ]
ClawsandEffect - As I said before, I don't have any interest in rebuilding a virtual clone of my scrapper using DM/WP (It would be months before that character saw 50th) so it's either find a build I can respec this character into I can live with or just scrap the scrapper all together.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wasn't necessarily telling you to reroll, was just mentioning that a pure regeneration regen with no other mitigation just isn't that practical anymore. The "roll a DM/WP instead" was just my advice if you were dead set on just regeneration for mitigation and not willing to compromise. Since it seems you are willing to compromise my statement is redundant.
Builds look pretty good, you should be well on your way to getting about as close as you'll ever get to an old school regen.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Since returning to the game and playing my "Regen" scrapper more I have come to the point of honestly hating the "Click to live" secondary set that it has become.
As I seriously doubt that the Devs will allow me to switch secondaries (LoL) I have decided to attempt to rebuild a "Regeneration" scrapper as close to the old Regeneration set as is possible from the game today using the powers and IOs available to me.
I am trying to do this on a budget of 500-700m Inf and without either wrecking my attack chain or crippling the character in other ways so that means he has to have a travel power, decent End recovery, etc.
Right now the best I can manage to get my constant regen up to is 722% and 72.6 Hp per second (not terrible).
This is with Dull Pain up as permanent, Instant Healing available roughly 50% of the time, Soul Drain with a 34 second cooldown and Reconstruction on an 18.6 second cooldown.
It is my hope that with having Siphon Life integrated into the attack chain that I'll be able to get close to the old "Set and forget" regen concept of only having to hit click powers as Emergency fallback options and not as a matter of course just to survive.
So far I have focused on Recharge, Regeneration and HP bonuses (in that order) and tried to balance the rest of the set bonuses to be as generally helpful overall as possible.
My questions are..
Has anyone else built this concept before? Did it work?
Does this look "playable" with the powers and percentages listed?
Have I missed anything? (I am far from an expert on IO sets and their bonuses).
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
speed force: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Fitness
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(21), T'Death-Acc/Dmg(23)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(3), Numna-Heal(5), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Dmg-I(A), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(13), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Cloud-%Dam(25)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(17), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 6: Reconstruction -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Dct'dW-Heal(34)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- HO:Nucle(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(9), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(9), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Theft-Heal(31), Theft-Heal/Rchg(42)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal(31)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(17), HO:Golgi(19)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg(36), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 20: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(43), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(45), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(45), Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), ImpArm-ResDam(36), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(43)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- RechRdx-I(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Numna-Heal/Rchg(29)
Level 30: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 35: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(39), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(42), Heal-I(42)
Level 44: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Whirlwind -- KinCrsh-Dmg/KB(A), KinCrsh-Acc/KB(48), KinCrsh-Rchg/KB(48), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(48), KinCrsh-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(50), KinCrsh-Acc/Dmg/KB(50)
Level 49: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]6% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]6% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]6% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]6% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]6% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]6% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]6% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]6% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]4.88% Defense(Smashing)[*]4.88% Defense(Lethal)[*]3% Defense(Fire)[*]3% Defense(Cold)[*]3% Defense(Energy)[*]3% Defense(Negative)[*]4.88% Defense(Psionic)[*]6.75% Defense(Melee)[*]3% Defense(Ranged)[*]3% Defense(AoE)[*]6.3% Max End[*]25% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]8% Enhancement(Heal)[*]3% Enhancement(Stun)[*]82.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]75.3 HP (5.62%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -3)[*]Knockup (Mag -3)[*]MezResist(Confused) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Held) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 7.45%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Stun) 6.9%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 6.9%[*]7.5% (0.13 End/sec) Recovery[*]110% (6.15 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]2.5% Resistance(Smashing)[*]2.52% Resistance(Fire)[*]2.52% Resistance(Cold)[*]8% RunSpeed[/list]