Werner

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redraw isn't a problem anymore, so you shouldn't really be worried about it. Most people that still complain about it are from back in the day and still expect it to be a "nerf." Back then redraw was balanced with a higher base accuracy. Not we get better base accuracy & same animation times.

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Actually, you have it exactly backwards. Redraw time used to be baked into the time of the attack, so that redraw didn't hurt you. They then removed the baked in redraw time from many (not all) primaries, speeding up the attacks. On the down side, if you need to redraw, it now actually takes extra time, and lowers your damage. So now we DO need to worry about redraw, where before we did not.

I'm also not aware of any base accuracy change that accompanied the redraw change. There was a change to low level characters to make things a little easier on them, but that benefit goes away as you level, and I don't think had anything to do with the redraw changes.

I'd personally still shoot for quite a bit of recharge in Siphon Life so that it is spammable when you get badly hurt.

For a high-level survivability, I think Dark Melee is the best primary for Super Reflexes, mostly because of Siphon Life. What Super Reflexes needs to be really crazy survivable is either a ton of regeneration (not really available) or a heal (Siphon Life or Aid Self). By taking the Dark Melee primary, you don't need Aid Self, which frees up some build options. Mind you, it's not THAT hard to fit in Aid Self if you want another primary, and you can actually get plenty of regeneration for normal play from sets, so I don't think it's that big a difference. But a difference.

For lower-level characters, I think Katana or Broad Sword are the best primaries because soft-capping melee defense at an early level is probably more valuable than a heal. (edit: Also good for AE missions because you can be way over the soft cap on a permanent basis to deal with to hit buffs.)

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Now I have a question regarding slotting, I recently came accross a thread about when to slot IOs that basically suggested the difference between lvl 30 IOs and lvl 50 IOs was negligible. It basically suggested that slotting at 25 (more of a diff there) or 30 was the way to go because you didn't lose your bonuses if you exemped down.
What are your thoughts on that?

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3 even level TOs = 24.90%
3 level 10 IOs = 35.10%
3 even level DOs = 50.10%
3 level 15 IOs = 56.60%
3 level 20 IOs = 76.12%
3 level 25 IOs = 92.20%
3 even level SOs = 94.93%
3 level 30 IOs = 95.66%
3 level 35 IOs = 96.52%
3 level 40 IOs = 97.37%
3 level 45 IOs = 98.23%
3 level 50 IOs = 99.08%

I'd wait until 27 and slot 30s. Slotting 25s is a reasonable alternative if you want them sooner. Even though they're better than DOs, I wouldn't bother slotting 15s or 20s because of how quickly you get through those levels compared to the time and/or influence to deck yourself out with very temporary low-level IOs. I wouldn't bother with level 10s for the same reason. And I don't bother with TOs at all because those levels fly by.

While very noticeable on occasion, I feel that the resistance issue is largely overblown. You'll be just fine in the higher levels with Claws.

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Well silly me for thinking to look in the scrapper forums for scrapper PVP stuff. My bad

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Yeah, I know. It makes SENSE to come here. It just seems like most of the scrapper forum regulars are largely PvE focused, so while we can try to give you advice, you'd probably get better advice elsewhere. Sorry about that.

pIX plz

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People slot something lower than SO's? I usually just try to grind it to 22 myself.

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What's an SO?

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Well, see, there are these things called “stores” in the zones where you can buy “SOs” that enhance your powers kind of like IOs. Lazy people like me use them rather than spend time waiting for bids to fill or spend influence to buy it nao at the market. Yes, I should just get field crafter on some character and toss a ton into base storage. As I said, lazy.

Well, the OP did ask about soft-capping Willpower, not about what the best approach to Willpower is. I think I'm with you, though. I suspect a smashing ranged and AoE hole isn't a big deal compared to what you give up to soft cap positional defense, but now I'm at least curious. If I ever do Katana/Willpower, I'll definitely poke at both approaches.

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High defense is great until you get hit with -def. With WP there is no -def resistance so if you def starts failing you normally back it up with great regen and HP. With having to dedicate so many slots to getting your def up, you are left with much lower regen and HP bonus compared to a more balanced build.

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If you monitor your base defense and spam Divine Avalanche the instant it goes red, you can usually prevent cascading defense failure. For instance, no problem so far with Cimerorans on my Katana/Regen, and I can often handle defense-debuffing AVs as well. Moment of Glory helps in that case, but I was also OK before those changes most of the time, so I'd think Willpower would be OK. So defense debuffing is a problem, but less of a problem than you might think since your primary gives you a way to respond to it here.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about Shields getting nerfed. If it overperforms, it only seems to do so in top tier builds, and mostly on the damage front. Since it should have been obvious from the start to the devs that Shields lets you do more damage than other secondaries, I can't imagine this would take them by surprise. And the survivability of top-tier builds isn't representative of normal play.

I'm not saying it's a poor secondary, but it's not in need of a nerf either.

It actually lasts 10.3 seconds, you flipped the numerator and denominator, and I'd use Arcanatime:

10.3 * (# of AH proc attempts per Attack String) / (Total Arcanatime of Attack String) = (# procs per AH duration)

The rest looks right, or at least right for an approximation over the whole attack string.

But I do calculate the number specifically for each attack:

average AH contribution = .2 * (1-.8^(# of AH proc attempts in previous 10.3 seconds))

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My experience of playing Willpower straight out of the box was different, granted, I haven't combined it with Kat for the melee def bonus from DA, but it lacks the heal for when you get in trouble, and you will get in trouble.

It picks up later though so . . . .

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My experience was the total opposite. Leveling was simple, easy, and without issues. In the 45+ range my DB/WP (my first WP 50) hit a brickwall. I simply couldn't do the same things I could on other scrappers...until I grabbed all the accolades WHOA! what a difference. Add IO sets for +HP and she became an absolute beast.

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Really? I had no problems with my DB/WP in the upper 40s. I had some of the accolades by then, though. Don't remember which ones. So maybe that's the explanation for the different experience. I expected it to be weaker than my other scrappers, but it kinda just wasn't, or at least not by enough to be frustrating.

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But what should I be doing in the mean time?

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I hate to say it, but in the mean time, die a lot. I was chain dying through my teens on my Claws/Super Reflexes. Super Reflexes is a late blooming secondary, though it at least starts pulling together in the 20s.

As far as more practical advice, at this level, I generally have my attacks slotted with accuracy and endurance reduction and not much else. That keeps me from eating through the blue bar. Don't waste more than a couple endurance reduction DOs in the toggles, or more than one SO when you get to that point. The main thing burning endurance is attacks, so that's the main focus for endurance reduction. Six slots is really too much for the toggles. I'd go with four – with SOs, one endurance reducer and three defense. Conventional wisdom is also to slot up your attacks before your defenses. The rationale is that low level defenses don't do much, so your best defense is a good offense.

Ah, looks like a lot of this has already been said. Ah, well. Dittos, then.

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Seriously, this "teaming" thing is sounding less and less pleasant the farther we go in this thread.

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CoX has always been a solo-game with optional teaming, hasn't it? Maybe I misread the manual...

OK, so Werner, BillZ, and BrokenPrey when can we all get together to form an anti-teaming team? Seriously, this would be a hell of a fun group methinks.

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I'm trying to organize a people who hate people club. I can't seem to get anyone to show up to meetings, though, and the members keep leaving nasty messages on my answering machine.

I actually do some anti-teaming teams already. Some of the small groups I've leveled up with have been very tightly coordinated, like a tank and two blasters. Some are pretty much everybody solo whatever portion of the map looks tasty to you, like when we all choose tanks and scrappers (or Brutes and Masterminds, or whatever). We seem to split up and fall together kind of automatically, without much communication, other than maybe “boss” for the end boss, and then we come running to try to get some of the fun if we can get there in time. Sometimes we arrive to a corpse. Or sometimes there's just the mission complete sound while we're doing something totally unrelated.

If we're stretching for purples, I'd have tried to incorporate Laser Beam Eyes with at least two Apocalypse (16% regeneration) to go more with the original regeneration theme. Yeah, purples make a big difference in Smite, plus upping the global recharge. But that would probably eat 2/3 of the budget right there, so it didn't seem practical. It's a good “some day, if you find you really love the character again” goal.

I'm showing 4.47 seconds in Midnight Grasp (needs 4.48), 2.01 seconds in Smite (needs 2.11) and 3.60 seconds in Siphon Life (needs 4.62). Good to go except when slowed or when Hasten is down, but then it has Shadow Maul and other things to fill in. I think it'll be fine.

I kinda like it. Not what I want to play, but I think it's a good example of what it's supposed to be. I bet it does very well for a “compromised for concept” build.

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/WP is good for Beginners but it is the worst for PvP. So I woundn't look into that.

If you want to stay away for AoE? then Spines is no good too.

Any other combo will do just fine for 99% of play.

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Never really made it past the 20s with a Scrappper. Why is WP so bad in PvP?

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I don't PvP, but I can tell you what I've heard or suspect. Your biggest regeneration power, Rise to the Challenge, is both based on having people in range (they won't be there long) and shuts off whenever you are mezzed because it's considered an offensive toggle. The defense the set offers probably isn't high enough to make any difference in people hitting you. So you're left with some decent resists, passable regeneration, and not much else.

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Say, Werner, didn't we come up with a higher DPS chain way back when we were trying to figure out ShredMonkey's chain?

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Yes and no. You came up with one that was comparable: Blinding Feint -> Sweeping Strike -> Ablating Strike. But in my DPS template and slotted with both -resist procs, I'm showing 226 DPS for that vs. 241 for the other. It'll probably pull ahead with a Speed Boost, though, as it isn't nearly as close to its recharge limit as the other chain. Also slightly better AoE damage with the triple Blinding Feint on Sweeping Strike, and it coming more often. So I don't know which one I'd run in practice on a damage build, quite possibly the shorter chain, but it doesn't look like I can still claim it does as good DPS. Still, very close, and situationally better.

Claws/Super Reflexes is very popular round these parts, but yes, it's going to be a late bloomer, so it's a question of how much you want to invest before you get to the payoff.

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As far as endurance concerns with /DA, it can't be said enough: Get the Theft of Essense: Chance for +End Proc for Dark Regen.

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Interesting idea - I should try this with my Spines/Dark. Right now I have conserve power on autofire but this could free up a power slot if it works as described. Cool, thanks.

Agree with all the other comments....

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It is wonderful to have that in Dark Regeneration, but it is expensive to the common player.

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At only a 20% chance for +10% End it's not worth it

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That's per target. If you're routinely surrounded by foes when you need a heal, it pretty much just stops costing you endurance on average.

Ah, just noticed that Midnight Grasp has now gotten too slow. You're shooting for 4.48 seconds, and you're at 4.59. Swap the damage/endurance for damage/endurance/recharge, and you'll be back on target. Ah, and Smite has likewise gotten just a hair too slow as well. I'd replace the accuracy/damage with accuracy/damage/recharge.

And yeah, you won't be able to chain without gaps while Hasten is down. That's about 15 seconds. Chain with gaps, toss in a Shadow Maul, click on some other power, whatever. You'll be fine. I wouldn't bother adding Shadow Punch for those 15 seconds or for the rare occasions you're slowed.

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For fast lvl I would say Kat/Willpower would be the best. Kat/Regen is good too, but take some time to leard to play the set. Kat/WP is Scrapper on Easy, you just turn all you toggles on and start to kill stuff

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Ditto. Katana/Willpower is my default answer for this sort of thing. Strong out of the gate, strong all the way through, strong when maxed out. Easy to play set it and forget it secondary.

Still, you might find Katana/Regen more fun if you WANT to put in the effort to learn the set and like taking a more active role in your own survival.

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Blinding Feint/Ablating Strike/Sweeping Strike/Ablating Strike

Would that be the highest DPS attack chain for a DB/ Scrapper?

If so, does anybody know how much recharge would be needed to slot into the attacks, and how much global recharge, to run this chain?

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Yes, that's the highest DPS chain for Dual Blades, and you're simply going to have gaps without some sort of external speed boost. To get the proper stacking of Blinding Feint and the procs you want at least +279% recharge in Ablating Strike (recharge in 1.58 seconds). You want five Hecatombs (all but damage) and the Achilles' Heel proc in Ablating Strike. That gives you about 90% recharge, so you'll need 189% global recharge. With 70% of that from perma Hasten, you're looking at 119%+ recharge from set bonuses.

Most people go for the MUCH more achievable Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals. It does very respectable DPS, and won't completely dominate your build considerations. But if you MUST have the best possible DPS, yes, use the attack chain you posted.

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DB is a decent primary for AV killing, but Katana is plain better at the task, it's also more click heavy as Katana's best chain involves heavy use of the fastest animating (IIRC) scrapper power, Gambler's Cut.

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Actually, I believe that top tier DB attack strings are capable of more damage than Katana, iirc.

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Well, that's the conventional wisdom, but it doesn't seem to be correct. I'm seeing very comparable numbers from top tier Dual Blades and Katana chains plugged into a cost no object DPS build template. I calculated 241 for Dual Blades and 244 for Katana, which probably just means "within margin of error". I need to do the rest of the primaries and post the thing. One more thing I may or may not eventually get to.

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I'd say go SR if you want to be really tough, if you want to sacrifice some of that toughness for extra damage and an AoE attack go with shields.

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If you have the budget you are actually much tougher as a /SD than you are as a /SR....and you have the extra damage and AoE attack.

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I don't agree that Shileds are “much” tougher. I'm not even convinced they're tougher. Shields does have extra hit points and resistance. But Super Reflexes has scaling resistances that really shouldn't be sold short, particularly stacked with Tough. Against a fairly constant stream of incoming damage, a Super Reflexes in the orange or red is VERY difficult to finish off. Frankly, I think the survivability side could be a wash, even with soft-capped Shield Defense.

But I'll agree that once you have your survivability nailed down, Shield Defense really pulls ahead in damage output, both from Against All Odds and from Shield Charge. I can only imagine the glory of Soul Drain + Against All Odds + Shield Charge.