SR unless combined with a sword set is somewhat squishy till you get SOs. I never try to run 2 toggles before I slot lvl 15 common IOs at 12, so go with melee toggle and ranged passive till then.
If you have your toggles 6 slotted with endreds, that's your problem, attacks use way more end than toggles, get some defence in your toggles, and get some slots in your attacks including end red. If you've put all the slots in your toggles, you're burning a lot of end to do very little damage with your attacks.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
I went and bought as many defense DOs as I could. FF has 4 and fs has 3. I got a 6% increase in each power and it is really helping quite a lot. THanks for the advice 
Even with SOs, more than one end reduction in a toggle defense is generally a waste -- you get very little actual end savings for the slot.
One of the problems is that you're MA, not SR. MA's single-target limitation (until Dragon's Tail) means you have to kick each enemy down to zero, no efficient shredding with AoEs. Note that this takes longer, exposing you to more damage, as well as costing you more attacks and hence more end.
Make sure to get at least one end reduction DO in every attack...I'd go 1 acc, 1 end red, another acc, then consider adding another end red, or up to 3 damage, as long as you're using DOs.
One thing that would also help you avoid being smushed is to get another attack. If you don't have vet powers, that is. Killed stuff has zero chance to hit through your defenses. Two is low for a Scrapper, and hard to chain; Crane Kick is a great attack, but 10 seconds is a long recharge at low enhancement levels. If I were respeccing, I'd consider moving Hurdle later (say, after and picking up Thunder Kick or Air Superiority (or Boxing if you plan on working toward Weave anyway).
If you took Hurdle early so that you could slip Crippling Axe Kick in at 18 without delaying Stamina, well, that'll be nice when you get there. If you can supplement with vet attacks now, maybe it won't be too bad. If it does get to you, or if you aren't planning on taking Crippling Axe Kick at all, a respec (or just start your "second build") might let you shift Agile until after Stamina and thus grab a third early attack.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Even with SOs, more than two end reductions in a toggle defense is definitely a waste
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Fixed for accuracy, as per personal experience.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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But what should I be doing in the mean time?
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I hate to say it, but in the mean time, die a lot. I was chain dying through my teens on my Claws/Super Reflexes. Super Reflexes is a late blooming secondary, though it at least starts pulling together in the 20s.
As far as more practical advice, at this level, I generally have my attacks slotted with accuracy and endurance reduction and not much else. That keeps me from eating through the blue bar. Don't waste more than a couple endurance reduction DOs in the toggles, or more than one SO when you get to that point. The main thing burning endurance is attacks, so that's the main focus for endurance reduction. Six slots is really too much for the toggles. I'd go with four with SOs, one endurance reducer and three defense. Conventional wisdom is also to slot up your attacks before your defenses. The rationale is that low level defenses don't do much, so your best defense is a good offense.
Ah, looks like a lot of this has already been said. Ah, well. Dittos, then.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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I hate to say it, but in the mean time, die a lot.
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Consider it the price you pay for shining from level 29 on up.
Be well, people of CoH.
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But what should I be doing in the mean time?
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I hate to say it, but in the mean time, die a lot.
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Early levels were rough for me on my Fire/SR, but the passives changed all that.
I skipped Focused Senses and delayed Stamina to make my toon into a Blapper with scaling damage resistances. I shine while my Health is yellow and excel when in the red.
Here's what I did, up to my current level of 22, though there will be a respec in my future once I get to where positional def can be near-capped:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 23 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scorch -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), B'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(3), B'Snap-Acc/Dmg(7), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(7), B'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Cremate -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), B'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(3), B'Snap-Acc/Dmg(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(5), B'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Agile -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 8: Breath of Fire -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Dmg-I(9), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(9), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(13), Dmg-I(13)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(19), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(21), Dmg-I(21)
Level 20: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 24: [Empty]
Level 26: [Empty]
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
My early MA/SR I remember just leaving the defensive toggles off and eating lucks, untill you get to SO level. The end use is just not worth the return. I took Cobra Strike early and tried to keep the toughest LT stunned as much as possible.
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
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Even with SOs, more than two end reductions in a toggle defense is definitely a waste
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Fixed for accuracy, as per personal experience.
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In the 20s, you can't afford the slots to 2 slot toggles for end, you're better putting the slots in your attacks, and by the time you can afford the slots in the 30s, you can slot sets which will largely remove your end issues.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Maintain a 2:1 primary-to-secondary slotting ratio until your primary is fully slotted (and a 2:1 ratio between secondary and pool), and for heaven's sake put some Defense DOs into your secondary.
I made exactly the same mistake as you on my first ever SR character. The above guidelines for slotting work quite well for Scrappers and Brutes.
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My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
WOW....DOs people still use those..
I slot at 12 lvl 15 IOs never touch DOs anymore
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Even with SOs, more than two end reductions in a toggle defense is definitely a waste
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Fixed for accuracy, as per personal experience.
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In the 20s, you can't afford the slots to 2 slot toggles for end, you're better putting the slots in your attacks, and by the time you can afford the slots in the 30s, you can slot sets which will largely remove your end issues.
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That depends on the attack and how often you use it, actually. Slotting something with a small end cost is a form of dimished return in its own way. Powers with large end costs are used less often, so that is a form of diminished return as well. Putting 2 end slots in toggles, however, saves you end all the time, including between fights. So unless you have NO down time or religiously turn off your toggles between fights, it comes out pretty close whenever I've run the numbers.
Run herostats and do your normal playstyle for a solid hour. Once you have some solid data for how often you use specific attacks, a simple spreadsheet can tell you if you save more end by slotting attacks or double slotting your toggles.
But to answer the OP, my MA/SR was pretty squishy until SO's. He noticably lagged behing my DM/SR, which has to-hit debuff/defense synergy and benefits from DM's lower end costs. In fact, I eventually gave up on the MA/SR once I realized how much better my DM/SR was performing (and it also had a better theme, name, etc.). I may revive it for old time's sake next month.
SR sucks hard at early levels. I have a DM/SR combo that was absolutely brutal trudging through the first 22 levels. Contemplated deleting him many a time. Then came level 21, and I did a respec. He got better. Then came level 22, and I got SO's. He got amazing.
I've been playing the game four years and it still amazes me the difference slotting SO's can make for a character. Tough it out, and you (probably) won't be disappointed.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
My experience with Defense sets (admittedly not much yet) has led me to believe that defense powers can be almost ignored until L20+. Focus on your attacks and other powers and don't worry about the defenses until later. Practised Brawler and such are still useful, of course, but powers that add Defense are not much help at lower levels.
Again, that's in my limited experience.
I slotted in more defense enhancements and put some endreds into my attacks. My hero is going quite strong now. What I've been doing for my attack chain is cranekicking the lt or boss down, then lining up as many minions as I can for sands of mu, then kicking everything till it dies. I also have to say how I love using both toggles all of the time. A lot of the early level foes seem to pull out their guns/wands/whatever from melee range, so having the extra ranged defense is proving quite useful.
You may even have to *shudder* join a team...
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But what should I be doing in the mean time?
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I hate to say it, but in the mean time, die a lot. I was chain dying through my teens on my Claws/Super Reflexes. Super Reflexes is a late blooming secondary, though it at least starts pulling together in the 20s.
As far as more practical advice, at this level, I generally have my attacks slotted with accuracy and endurance reduction and not much else. That keeps me from eating through the blue bar. Don't waste more than a couple endurance reduction DOs in the toggles, or more than one SO when you get to that point. The main thing burning endurance is attacks, so that's the main focus for endurance reduction. Six slots is really too much for the toggles. I'd go with four with SOs, one endurance reducer and three defense. Conventional wisdom is also to slot up your attacks before your defenses. The rationale is that low level defenses don't do much, so your best defense is a good offense.
Ah, looks like a lot of this has already been said. Ah, well. Dittos, then.
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Going for the three-peat on this info. Single SO or so in Toggles, stack up the end redux in attacks. One toggle eats maybe 1.5 end over 10 seconds and one attack eats 5-10 ever 10 seconds, you do the math.
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Now I'm only level 13, but my new scrapper project, and MA/SR, seems ridiculously squishy compared to my other scrappers. SR is also eating through end like a wildfire. I know that with SOs I'll be able to reach 50%def at half the end price, which seems amazing. But what should I be doing in the mean time?
My build so far
1 - Storm Kick
1 - Focused Fighting
2 - Focused Senses
4 - Agile
6 - Hurdle
8 - Crane Kick
10 - Practiced Brawler
12 - Combat Jumping
This is putting me at about 20% ranged defence and 15% melee defense. I have both of the toggles 6 slotted with endred DOs so end is alright now. It seem like I should be dodging a decent amout of attacks, but it seems like none at all.
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Six slotting the toggles?! Man oh man oh man... Drop 3 slots from the toggles and put them into your attacks. Replace the end red with defense. Sure endurance costs will go up a bit, but if slotting DO's your defense will go up more. Pre-stamina most defensive sets feel endurance heavy. Most of your endurance woes likely come from attacks though. Slot your attacks 1 ACC the rest damage for now, and you should drop enemies fast enough to not have problems.
Those six slots you saved from defensive toggles? That can boost 3 attacks by 2 damage enhancements each. And if your six slotting defenses, your skimping on attacks likely. Also don't forget the passives don't get any benefit really after the first 3 enhancements.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Or the alternative is to take those extra two slots from your defenses and put them in your attacks and slot end reduction there. It'll give you higher return on your endurance reduction investment.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
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WOW....DOs people still use those..
I slot at 12 lvl 15 IOs never touch DOs anymore
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I use IO's, but refuse to buy the recipes. As such I'll use DO's till I get a recipe for the IO. Same for SO enhancements. I'll replace them with IO's as I can.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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I use IO's, but refuse to buy the recipes. As such I'll use DO's till I get a recipe for the IO. Same for SO enhancements. I'll replace them with IO's as I can.
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Generally, buying basic IO recipes and crafting them costs about as much as what you spend on SOs and having to upgrade them regularly, and many times it costs even less.
This holds especially true if you're in a SG with salvage storage and everyone contribues consistantly. Also, if you invest in level 25+ basic IOs, then you'd never have to expend inf again until you upgraded to IO sets at your leisure.
YMMV, of course.
Sometimes that's true, and I try to have a full IO'd out build by 27... But the salvage sometimes gets to be dang expensive. 20k each for salvage to make the basic IO's is not cheeper then buying the SO.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
I agree about the salvage cost, but my SG and I keep a ton on hand, so it helps reduce the cost there in my case. I also rationalize that IOs never need upgraded, unlike SOs every 5 levels, and so the cost even with salvage gets defrayed when looked at that way imho.
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Sometimes that's true, and I try to have a full IO'd out build by 27... But the salvage sometimes gets to be dang expensive. 20k each for salvage to make the basic IO's is not cheeper then buying the SO.
[/ QUOTE ]It is by the time you get to 32 and you've replaced the SO twice.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Now I'm only level 13, but my new scrapper project, and MA/SR, seems ridiculously squishy compared to my other scrappers. SR is also eating through end like a wildfire. I know that with SOs I'll be able to reach 50%def at half the end price, which seems amazing. But what should I be doing in the mean time?
My build so far
1 - Storm Kick
1 - Focused Fighting
2 - Focused Senses
4 - Agile
6 - Hurdle
8 - Crane Kick
10 - Practiced Brawler
12 - Combat Jumping
This is putting me at about 20% ranged defence and 15% melee defense. I have both of the toggles 6 slotted with endred DOs so end is alright now. It seem like I should be dodging a decent amout of attacks, but it seems like none at all.