Sprite Fire
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Quote:Originally Posted by Ocasta
My plant/rad is level 20 now. I've been turning up the number of heroes I'm equivalent to to get bigger spawns to confuse. The only issue is, when solo, where does my damage come from so I get exp for the kills? I can spam aoe root, but the damage isn't terribly high. I grabbed a bunch of single target attack options to help with soloing, but those aren't good enough for that because half the mobs are dead before I get to attack them.
Is this something that's simply going to be pretty low until creepers/flytrap/app's? Soloing definitely isn't bad right now, but it just seems like some of the potential of an aoe confuse as such a low level is going to waste because I can't deal the damage to claim a good chunk of the exp.
yeah... plant is sweet primarily because it has the highest damage with it's AOE holds of any troller, so when you slot them for damage you see some pretty good numbers.
When you get creepers you'll do some really really nice damage as well.
As the previous posters said, i'd spam seeds, debuff, roots, things will go down rather fast. -
Quote:Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Difficult, yes, but doable.
A fire/fire blaster has soloed an ITF before, so it is clearly possible to solo AVs with one (You have to in order to complete the ITF, no he didn't do it with no deaths, and it took him a long time, but he did it nonetheless)
On the plus side, a Fire/ blaster will have no problem outdamaging an AVs regen. If a scrapper can kill one, a blaster can as well. Blasters just need to figure out how to survive it.
the only way i can see this happening... is
you have to softcap your melee defenses... and have some sort of self heal. i'd say that demands ICE as your epic powerset.
You'd probably have to build as a blapper, not a pure blaster... and cap out your highest damage attacks (melee or ranged), you'll probably need a solid travel power like ss, which would give you haste as well... with combat jumping as a must. You'll need weave... you'll need stealth... and you'll need a boatload of mez removal insp and def buff inspire.
i'm not sure if that will work but it seems like the most likely chance to make fire/fire work -
Quote:yep. I have a kickass blapper, a badass scranker, and a troller who has no need for a team, tank or... well help of any sorts.Originally Posted by Kelenar
Nothing annoys me more than a hesitant tank. Pretty much, if I'm on a character that has a 50% or so chance of taking the alpha and living, and the one who's supposed to be taking the alphas is being a slowpoke, I'm jumping in. Debt barely slows down levelling these days. It's just a little bar that measures how much awesome you've generated recently. (If you're not getting debt, you're just not trying to generate awesome hard enough.)
When either one of those characters is on a team with a hesitant tanker, i just stop paying attention to the tanker and and tank for him. Either the tanker quits in shame, tails along like a lost puppy or starts to man up and do his job... either way i'm happy and the team plows through the mish without missing a beat.
Don't get me wrong. i'm more then happy to let a tanker do their job. i just have no patience for one dithering about when the +2 or +3 mobs wouldn't even scratch my stupid blaster/sometimes blapper (or accidental blapper... i mean who knew ice/ice/ice could softcap 2 types of damage and still rock at either range or melee? i didn't when i made her... but i figured it out pretty fast) , let alone my troller or scranker.
Seriously. if your tanker can't take the alpha hit a halfassed ice/ice/ice semi blapper can suck up then you're not playing the right AT.
as to a story... how about using my ice/ice/ice semi-blapper to pl 6 nOObs through a +3/+8 freak farm in pi? that was a funny story because it wasn't my farm... i was just tagging along for purples... when the tanker/team leader ragequit after faceplanting again (shield tanker) when the rng got him. Well i figured since we were all there i might as well just keep doing the mish, with a little backup from a cold who popped an iceshield on my blapper... and some backup healing from a rad... we crushed it with the team in slack jawed awe at the silly blaster-turned-scrapper dropping icepatch and sucking alpha strikes without a single death to herself or the team.
pretty fun really... especially since i never really thought of her as a blapper before then,and only did it on a whim. -
Quote:i would disagree... heartily.Originally Posted by streetlight
You have to work a little bit to make a truly bad combo in this game. Unlike the prior posters, though, I'd say this is probably an average combo. If it fits your concept, go with it. If not, maybe consider something else.
Dark Melee is a single-target set with to-hit debuffs. WP uses a mix of defense and resistance with a lot of regeneration and significant boosts to regeneration when facing large crowds. The single-target vs. large crowd thing is where synergy breaks down, IMO.
Couple Dark Melee with a defense-heavy set and you get some great results. If you go */SR, for instance, you would get that synergy and have a nice global recharge bonus to go with it, helping you build a great single-target attack chain. If you have the influence and time, you can buy/create sets to take */WP to the softcap for several types, which will be even more effective than */SR (global recharge power aside).
Going the other way, pair up */WP with a more AOE-heavy set and you get great results. Katana, Claws, Broadsword, and Spines all have better synergy with WP than DM, IMO.
Again, DM/WP is still okay. WP is arguably the best survivability set in the game, so you can pair it with anything and be fine. I just believe you can get more out of DM and WP by pairing them up with other sets.
DM only sucks at AOE/PBAOE, as a solo target damage type it's one of the best.
Doubled with WP and you get the best of both worlds... as DM's best stuff tend to be end heavy, WP makes up for it, DM's best abilities require a lot of people around to fire up, WP gets stronger the more people around. DM's problem is it doesn't kill crowds fast, WP's strength is it gets better in crowds so it doesn't matter how slow you take them down...
finally, WP is weak vs single target AVs, while DM covers for that inadequacy with a massive self heal and a lot of single target damage.
Finally, when built right it can even rock in pvp... of all the WP based pvp builds i've seen the strongest have been WP/DM hands down, as the single target heals and massive single target damage allow it to trade punches with the most elite regen scrapper duelers on nearly equal footing. -
i think electric/kin will be underwhelming
electric/rad or electric/storm look good though.
electric looks more like a dom set then a troller set to me. -
not having played an ill/kin i might be wrong about this.
but i don't think FS effects PA
so it seems massively under-performing to me. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Tangler
So there I was, happily levelling my Fire/Rad corr when with gleeful... glee, when I thought wouldn't it be awesome if I slotted LR for maximum slow debuff, thereby trapping my enemies in a hellstorm of fire much like my fancypants Fire/Dark cousins.
...Except the enemies weren't brought all the way down to the -speed cap, in fact they weren't being slowed down at all. I ended up using the Analyzer temp power to check the enemies' stats and sure enough, LR was dropping their flight and jump speed, but not run speed despite indicating that it should do so in its info tab.
What gives? :/
i never noticed because Lingering Rad is so freaking awesome any slow effects are so minor i never paid attention.
lingering radiation = solo supervillians
if the only thing you're looking for is a slow effect then you're using it wrong. -
Quote:Originally Posted by AllStar
Thank you all again for the comments. I have decided to play a dark/dark defender and see where that takes me.
my fiance had one of those. he really loved it. dark/dark when mixed with dark epic pool is not only able to solo, but it it becomes a mini-troller, with some powerful debuffs and some impressive damage.
dark/dark/dark is a pretty strong build, with lots of flexibility, a fair pet, and plenty of healing as well. -
my WP tanker is at 2998 hps and i didn't even build her for high hps. i figure i slot one more set of kin combat and she'll break 3k.
so yeah. it's not only possible it's pretty easy. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Forefinger_
After GR hits, I'll never make another Tank because of this.
I think a lot of people will do the same.
the number of quests/tf/avs that actually NEED a tank to hold agro is pretty small.
hell, since i was on an all Troller MoSTF I'd say tankers are pretty much unneeded. -
I have a badass WP/DB tanker...
listen... DB is more for show then damage. don't get me wrong, i love that tanker to death. and she's awesome at all levels both solo and in teams. but there are stronger offensive sets.
The trick is you want the sweep and lethal combos, which means you'll basically take all the db attack powers (with one exception); since WP requires you to take tough and weave and most of it's powerset to be godly... you're going to be slot starved and will have to be very careful about balancing the slotting and io'ing.
the advantage of WP/DB is WP has massive end recovery... which means even while running all those WP toggles, plus tough/weave you'll never really harm your end, and basically never run out even cycling your attack string over and over again (i just cycle those two chains over and over again... do a lot of good damage, with a lot of PBAOE) -
Quote:Originally Posted by AllYourBase
I was under the impression that WP's intended weaknesses were that, with such low Def/Res/Regen values it "couldn't handle alpha strikes" as well as other sets (though with the combined values it can easily survive the standard, sustained dps of most enemies) and it was defensively "underpowered" versus a single, hard foe compared to other sets, due to the nature of RttC. It also lacks end drain and -recovery protection, and I'm not sure how much other debuff protection it has.
then you've never played a WP tanker.
my current one is at 40% def across the board, regens 60hps/sec standing still out of combat, and with just 4 foes around her is hitting 180 hps/sec, topping out at 240/sec with a larger group... throw in the 70 s/l res, 30-40 in all others. it's basically unkillable. (she so rarely uses her teir 9 power, i forgot what it's called, i just use it to recover her end when fighting an end draining sv)... and i wouldn't say she's optimized... she's still about 3 billion inf away from optimizing.
and yes it's solo tanked StF a number of times without dying... so the "single foe" weakness is not really a weakness (she's still regening 90hps/sec vs a single foe)
as for agro... WP is hard to manage agro. if you have people on your team dishing real damage it's a challenge to keep the agro on you. It basically takes keeping taunt on auto-cast and spend a good chunk of your time finding stranglers who are not targeting you and taunting them, in between attack chains.
its not easy but you can do it... -
plant kin does more damage with it's holds then fire kin (Carrion Vines are godly) ... though a well made fire kin will out damage it thanks to it's damage auras, and fire being less resisted in comparison to s/l
i'd say an Electric Melee/ Shield Defense Scrapper probably could challenge one, but that's only until i18, when they nerf shield charge. not much else in that class though; pretty much everything else... including the stuff listed thus far in this thread are clearly 2nd or 3rd tier to an El/SD, Plant/Kin, fire/kin
in that 2nd teir you have some good choices like spines + electric/fire/dark scrappers... or maybe a brute or two... though generally it seems rare a brute can keep it's fury high enough to put it into this type of classification. -
dark/dark/dark defender
or
rad/rad/dark defender
or maybe...
ice/ice blaster (built to blap)
or...
I guess selectively powered grav/kin trollers, with some extra melee attacks or something. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Sailboat
While I also rank Willpower in the top 3 (despite what Shields fans assert
), I feel that I would add "...or against ANY large number of high-damage smashing or lethal attacks" to Willpower's vulnerabilities. That's much more common than the "solo AV" scenario you describe. Willpower lacks high defense against s/l damage AND has good-but-not-as-great resistance to s/l. Result is that an Invuln or Stone can hit the soft defense cap against s/l damage much more easily and can hit the hard resistance cap of 90% as well, simply making the s/l damage threat go away instead of being ready to rapidly heal it back.
This is NOT to imply that Willpower is an inferior Tanker -- we're splitting hairs here, and the same argument can be reversed against Invulnerability against energy/negative damage, anyway. And sets that I rank under those three are still strong sets; my two current Tanker romances are with Fire Tankers, for example.
io'ed right those weakness vanish. my wp has 40% def vs pretty much everything... and 70% s/l res, which is just fine when she's recharging 250 hp/s... so yeah... again... wp is only alright if not io'ed right and i agree with those who say that (stone is pretty much invulnerable no matter how you slot it)... but built right and WP becomes a force of nature.
give it the backup of an emp and it's freaking impossible to kill under any circumstance. -
Electric Melee/Shield Defense - Scrapper.
nothing else comes close... 'till they nerf shield charge.. then it will probably be spines & fire/dark/electric scrappers... or kin+ pick'em trollers (personally i think plant/kin trollers are almost as insane as fire/kin) -
Quote:Originally Posted by streetlight
I like WP as an off-tank set, treating it essentially as a Scrapper when on teams. They're weak to alphas and weak on aggro generation, which kind of defeats the purpose of tanking. So their best friends would be either another tank to handle all that messy aggro or one or more controllers to lock everything down. Defenders of any sort are always a great addition, but not really a tank-specific or WP-specific thing.
what? really?
I agree with the agro... holding agro with a WP tanker can be a pain in the backside... but weak on alphas?
when i think of the three toughest tanker def sets my mind goes to... Stone, Invuln, Willpower. No defense sets for a tanker comes close to those three. And frankly... if you really build it right, and spend a fortune... i'd be willing to claim except under very special circumstances, a WP tanker would probably out tank those other two.
Frankly, the only circumstance that comes to mind where WP doesn't outshine those two is in a solo fight with an AV... as WP's greatest strength (monsterous HP regen) is nerfed in solo battles fairly badly; this is the same reason why WP is sorta lame for PvP.
as to a WP's best friend? I agree with the people who say "FF" or "Cold"... both of those are huge for a WP. But my personal experience is with 1 solid Emp, a WP tanker is completely invincible. -single target heals + fortitude = god.
with 1 solid (doesn't even have to be "good") emp backing my WP tanker (who while very good isn't the best one i've seen), she easily can tank LR's whole AV crew in 1 go... no splitting them up. holding all 4 agro... and not dying, or even coming close. I don't think a FF or Cold Dom could buff her that well. -
WP just cruses through hami. hell i've seen a godly WP tanker tank hami without using EoE (granted he was getting emp backup, but it was still impressive)
I've seen stone tanks do alright with hami as well.
if you've got a few emps around and a handful of EoE any tanker can tank hami. if you don't have emps who know what they're doing and are low on EoE, you probably will need a WP... or a really godly Stone to pull it off. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
OMG ...And you have played the game for HOW many days now?
You are on a team and SB, especially to that STONE TANK that is holding aggro and helping keep you from having mobs down your throat, is a very valuable tool. This isn't City of Tea Parties it's City of Heroes and in the middle of combat with everything from Bosses, Lieutenants, and a ton of minons you want each individual team members to ask "Please may I have a Speed Boost?" And then WHILE the Elite Boss is trying to wipe the entire team they are supposed to take time out to type "Oh thank you so much for that SB I really appreciate it."
You are on a team and everyone is supposed to pitch in with whatever powers they have at their disposal. Did you ASK politely for the TANK to aggro each mob and thank him for keeping you safe? Did you ask the Blasters and/or Scrappers to attack and destroy every minion you came across during the mission? Do your job and do it well and between fights or at the end of a mission you MAY get comments like "Nice job those buffs really helped!" Can the team survive without SB? Sure it can but I'm sorry taking an attitude that everyone should ASK you nicely to get you to use a power that helps YOU earn XP, INF, and get Salvage and Recipe drops because they team survives better and can fighter longer and harder is absurd. I've played EMPS, RADS, PLANTS, and THERMALS and never, ever, expected anyone to BEG me to heal, buff, debuff or hold. It's my job and the way I HELP the team. If you are looking for PLEASE and THANK YOUs I strongly suggest you find an on line version of "Mother may I?"
Here's a HINT for you .. SB allows every member of ANY team to fire off whatever attacks, buffs, debuffs, hold/immobs or whatever faster. They heal quicker and recover End quicker so they can battle harder and longer. You don't need to examine everyone's powersets to determine who needs it or not... It helps them all so unless a Scrapper or whatever says "No SB please" just give it to everyone. It recovers in no time and only lasts for about 2 minutes so you should be able to SB an entire 8 man team in less than 30 seconds. Your in a battle not at a garden party so forget the manners and do whatever you can to keep evertone alive and in the fight.
i agree and disagree with about half of what yuo say...
YES a kin should take SB if they want to team... much like a SD should take grant cover. or an emp take... you know... single target heals... or tanks take... taunt (i HAVE seen the rare tanker able to capture and hold agro without taunt. they're rediculacely rare, 99% of the tankers without taunt simply suck at it)
note the "if they want to team". if you don't want to team don't take powers that help the team and not yourself. it's that simple.
- HOWEVER - that is no cause for rudeness, demands, and general ignorence. it's the people begging for SB WHEN THEY STILL HAVE THEIR BUFF UP that drive me insane. Its the random blaster who's end never drops bellow 90% full begging for it while i'm trying to FS so he can dish real damage that ticks me off. it's the emp defender, who neither has end issues, not even an attack chain to manage begging me for SB that drives me nuts.
it runs out really fast... it's a pain in the *** to rebuff the team, especially in the middle of a battle, and especially since FS is up ever 15-30 seconds... and when you're the ONLY actual troller on the team, trying to manage crowd control, healing, sb, fs... so on and so forth that the constant and endless nagging starts to grate on your nerves. Simply put, while i imagine a kin/ defender might be able to keep SB up on the whole party all the time and do all the other things a kin can do... the kin troller (atleast how i play one) has much more useful things she can be doing to help the team then keeping pcs who neither need SB nor will use it constantly buffed.
stone tanker - needs SB
end hogs - need SB
everyone else hardly registers on my list. -
I love being a tanker that teams think i'm invaluable to doing a STF as the lone tanker. I like being the Will tanker holding the agro of recluses QUAD of AVs (simultaneously) while the team takes them out one at a time (with the help of fort and clear mind); while the rest of the team goes
"no way! i didn't think that was possible!!"
I love having the Will tanker that outlasts the Stone tanker in pretty much every situation...
but above all else, I love keeping the team alive by eating insane amounts of agro from multiple deadly encounters, leaping into the most dangerous of battles without a battleplan, and always being the last one standing even in the most hopeless battles which strike above the idiotic agro cap, leading the horde away from my comrades corpses so that they can regroup in 5 minutes while i tank the horde solo that took the rest of the party down.
nothing more fun or heroic then a tanker which lasts MONTHS between defeats...
well that was rambling. but i just love my will tanker =D -
i'll say this straight up. I have a plant/kin who just destroys with or without a team.
i generally solo her at +8/+2 (she can solo at +8/+4 but kills things too slowly to bother with that setting, and the lack of mez resist can become a problem sometimes at that setting)... frankly there is nothing, in any arc or tf she generally can't do without the team.
now this little engine of destruction has a choice whenever i log her on. I could
a) sb the team at their whim and desire, keeping them perma SB'ed while they struggle without the myriad of other abilities she can bring to the table
b) use sb on the stone tanker, and anyone who's an end hog, while using my holds and sick damage, fs and general power to steamroll the mish with the team
c) be a ***** and never sb anyone and debate respecting the power out of the set.
normally i'm a good teamate and i side with B... but when there are people going berzerk and bashing on me for not sbing them all the time, in short complaining i'm not doing A, i usually throw a fit and go to C.
I often tell teams which treat me like that, it's thier choice, SB or FS and if they have issues with that, then i'll find a team which isn't filled with complaining punks.
of course i feel terrible about doing this... i'd love to be able to do A... but i'm not a hyperactive 14 yo boy who can SB a team and do the whole troller thing wihtout pause. So the choice i'm faced with as a player is either help the team in a way i'm comfortable, and which i think helps us out more in the end... or simply don't play my kin.
sadly, i usually just chose not to play her because of the headaches.