Shred_Monkey
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Posts
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Joined
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I've played 3 toons with soft-caped smash/lethal builds. A fire/mm blaster, an energy/WP brute, and on a spines/Elec scrapper.. (the brute is actually soft-capped to all 6 types). Smash/Lethal defense is a very effective way to play, that I almost always try to do with any new build.
I'll echo what others are saying.. with this build, you'll not be challenged by +1s and 2s... (you can go afk in a group of +1 council with just fast healing). +3s and +4s are going to frustrate you due to low accuracy. The GSFC's in FA is doing nothing because GSFC doesn't give smash/lethal. Use 2 Rectified Reticles in it instead and put the other slots in your attacks for more +acc. -
Quote:Furthermore, like the temperature example, even if global warming isn't a myth (debatable), it couldn't be used to predict the weather for the Fat Tire festival this weekend in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. Just as saying Brutes out damage Scrappers, while it may be true to some extent, it doesn't tell you whether a brute is out damaging a scrapper in any actual situation (err.. should that be virtual situation?).Originally Posted by Werner
Now, given all that, the reason I made my 94 vs. 86 degrees comment is that it's essentially the same situation. Global temperature trends are a gigantic, multi-dimensional data set. To simply look at a couple of points in that data set and believe you can conclude anything about the data set as a whole is simply incorrect. You cannot assert anything about the data set as a whole from two simple measurements. Similarly, you cannot assert much of anything about Brute vs. Scrapper damage output from looking at the data Bill put together, except in regard to THOSE specific builds in THOSE specific circumstances.
As someone once said (and if nobody said this before, I'll take credit for it). "All generalizations are false... including this one." -
It's pretty easy to just look at the mechanics of fury and criticals to see given the same attack, somewhere around 70% fury the brute and scrapper damage is equal. Prior to that the scrapper does more damage, higher then the brute does more damage. Adding +damage to both the brute and scrapper from global sources or buffs benifits the scrapper more then the brute. In fact if theres enough outside +damage (somewhere around +70) the scrapper's attack will do more damage then the brute even with full fury (+180% damage). +70 sounds like a lot, except of course of your double stacking blinding feignt or follow up, or during build-up, or during heavily saturated soul drain, or during heavily saturated AAO, or if you have a handy kinetics teamate.. or... well you see my point. (For those of you following along, this is also where Rage would be great for scrappers). Furthermore, as more and more +damage is piled on scrappers pull ahead steadily until scrappers hit their cap... Since brutes cap later, they start to catch up again with scrappers until brutes in their cap.
That's all basic math that, and therefore, if i've done it correct, its just fact. So as many people have pointed out in this discussion, sometimes Brutes outdamage scrappers...sometimes scrappers outdamage brutes.
So, let's see (assuming you're a min/maxer choosing between brute and scrapper) if you want to play... DB, Claws, Dark, Martial Arts, Katana, Broadsword, Spines, or anything with /Shields, then you pick scrapper...
Since I'm not one to be negative, let's leave it at this. Assuming the OP is refering to min/max builds only, I agree with the OP if you're a fire/ or electric/ not teamed with a kinetics user and if your secondary is not /shields or /regen. -
I'd be curious to see an expirement on who actually runs missions faster, brutes or scrappers. Perhaps we should time ourselves running 3 back to back Borea missions at various levels of difficulty. I suspect we'd find that it has much more to do with who's driving then what toon is playing... but in general, if the same player is driving, scrappers will finish quicker due to a faster start and very little difference in top end kill speed.
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Quote:Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
Ive made and tricked out 3 other scrappers and 4 tanks and for some reason i wanted to try dark armour.
Well now i know its terrible, worst scrapper i ever even tried.
No def, the effects are terrible and almost irrelevant on a +2. Team stealth really on a scrapper LOL base like 2.5, -tohit on one aura and its weak versoin, 8 pbaoes toggles and no dmg, Fear, well with fear im surprised its not even half of the spectral terror and this is a toggle too.
I sadly paired it with claws my mistake made it feel even more crappy.
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Are you sure you were playing a scrapper? -
Quote:with /SR you can easily hit the soft-cap and easily add +recharge to run claws' best chains.Originally Posted by Dromilin
So ....
Is there a tip of the hat one way or the other in terms of Invul vs. SR ..?
As I have said I have never played either of the sets to know if there would be any useful synergy (breaking out the big words) with Claws...
with /invul you can get more survivability then with /SR, but it costs more at the expense of giving up the higher end damage chains.
I would choose /SR, as I don't much care if i have that extra little bit of survivabilty, but I enjoy the extra damage. But that's a personal preference. There are plenty of forum experts who would give the nod to higher survivability.
While leveling up... both /invul and /SR are late bloomers relative to other sets. /SR more so then /invul. -
Quote:I concur. A good elec/shield build can be played in such a way as to optimize damage output above anything else in the game. (Fire/Shield may be a close 2nd).Originally Posted by Nihilii
Spines is my top pick for AoEs if we exclude Shield builds.
However, I think in general game play on teams where things tend to scatter, and may not be all together in neat piles, I vote for spines. I especially like spines combined with another damage aura. My level 50 spines/electric scrapper is currently my first choice when I log in each evening and would be my first choice anytime I run a kill-all level 50+ mission. -
I like claws/fire. Not so much because fire adds a lot to claws, but because claws adds a lot to /fire. Doublestacking follow-up fuels your blazing aura. Claws is endurance efficient and has a lot of AoE which both help build on /Fire's strengths. Both sets beneifit from having massive recharge. Knockback/knockdown will help your survivability when soloing, and on teams you'll be an AoE monster.
If you prefer to be an unkillable fighting machine, /SR and /Invul as Billz mentioned are probably the best options. -
I'm going to post my standard fix for MA. Change focus chi to a persistant damage buff (something like rage, but doesn't have to be exactly rage).
Playing with secondary effects is fun and interesting conceptually. Even playing with the mechanics of the effects to make them more benifitial might seem to be of value. However, in a game where either through power selections, through builds, or through teaming, we're dropping the to-hit chance of badguys to very low levels, there's very few situations where I'd trade damage for more status effects, especially on a scrapper. The current state of the game is one where power isn't measured in wins and losses (we can all win in 99.99% of the tasks in this game)... it's measured in speed of success. For example, a 25 minute ITF is considered more successful then a 60 minute ITF. Even if you're not going for speed and you're attempting to kill everything, you'd rather do it in less time. In the last 63+ months of play expirience, I think I've been on a TF that failed 2 times... in both of those times, status effects from a scrapper would not have helped... additional damage from a high-end scrapper would have.
With that in mind, if you're on a toon that has low damage, it needs to have something else contibuting to the speed of success at typical tasks, or you'll be on an under valued toon.
This doesn't mean the only answer is damage. There could be some new new status effects that do something to improve speed of teaming. Just thinking quickly, if Martial Arts had an AoE debuff power that reduced the maximum attack range all affected enemies to 7ft, there'd be demand for MA toons to help herd groups of badguys into the kill zone range of a team's AoE attacks. I'm not saying that's a fix for MA... but what I'm saying, that's the type of "new" thinking needed to determine a way to improve an underperforming set. A set needs to increase success speed of some major aspect of the game or it's going to be percieved as weaker then other sets. -
I like the potential of this. However, I think the solution to the root cause problem is 1) respecs are not very user friendly, and 2) respecs are a little too expensive.
I think the solution to the root cause is increase the drop rate of respecs (to drop the price) and make respecs more friendly (offline tools and import/export features would be really sweet, IMHO).
I realize that the current Dev postion is that respecs should not be an easy every day activity. But personally I disagree with that position. One of the features that CoH has done better then all other MMOs is the charactor customization (both visual and build flexability). I think making the build/respec/power selection features more available and user friendly would be a great improvement to the game.
I'd be willing to pay real money (bonus pack?) for a better respec interface, especially if I could use it offline.
The ability to pull a single IO out would be something I'd use, no doubt... but it feels like a bandaid solution rather then a solid fix. -
Personally, I like short missions that move the plot along quickly. I don't want to feel like it's a chore to clear out a huge warehouse or collect 10 items from a giant map. 5-10 minute missions are perfect. If you have a longer, complex mission, it should stand by itself or just have 1-2 short set-up missions.
Generally, I'm looking for 25-35 minutes total for an arc. I play really fast, so that could be 4-5 short missions, but if the first mission takes me 20 minutes and there's 4 more in the arc, I'm done.
Keep in mind, I'm there for the stories. If I cared about the rewards or custom bosses, I probably wouldn't be running random arcs. -
It's been a while since I sat down with mid's and looked at /SR builds... I've done /SR before about as good as /SR can be done, so I've been focused on other stuff for a few years now.
But I have to confess, returning to /SR this morning for a bit in Mid's, I have to confess... /SR is still pretty friggin awsome. -
The debuff is mainly useful for high hp targets... Most little badguys die before you get the full 10 seconds of effect. So the only time it would help is when you want maximum ST damage output.
A long time ago I looked at that possibilty of using laser beam eyes to get a higher damage chain on some of the lower ST DPS sets. I don't remember the specific results, but I never found a case in any powerset where it gave me the best overall ST output damage for that set. And that study was before several of the lower DPS sets received buffs and flame mastery gave us access to fireblast. -
Quote:You can also put 6 razzle dazzles in boxing to get another 2.5 melee and 2.5 AoE.Originally Posted by DrMike2000
The Fighting pool can give you +9% Defence to all (3 from Steadfast, 6 from slotted Weave), plus +4.6% Defence vs AoE from 5 Aegis in Tough, and +2.5% Ranged from a Red Fortune set in Weave.
Melee Defence wont be an issue if you're happy to lean on Parry, so this gets you over 10% in the 2 positions you need to cap.
And the actual Resistance in Tough is nice to have at times, especially combined with an orange pill or two.
As the previous post mentions, HP are very important for /SR. /SR scrappers aren't spiking the 2nd mission of the ITF solo safely with just their base hitpoints. You will get hit, and you take full damage when you do. More hitpoints get you through the unlucky streaks. -
Quote:I had a baby about 4 1/2 years ago (well, my wife did... I participated in all the ways a father participates in these things). It was 2-3 years before I felt comfortable enough commiting the time to try running TF's again. Now, on the other hand, that same child has a level 6 blaster on Champion (if you see Refrigerator Monkey jumping around Galaxy City doing way more jumping then fighting and feel the need to talk to him, try keeping your conversation to 3 letter words.)Originally Posted by maxtsorm
The reason I ask is because of the different levels of the TFs
Id like to get TF commander but I solo alot (babies are fun)
To address your original question, I believe a scrapper can be built to solo the TF Commander Task Forces. But I've never heard of anyone doing it. You need more then just a level 50 AV killer... you need a level 20 AV killer. I'd actually take up the challenge myself on Shred Monkey who's built to exemplar very well... but it takes some planning and help to get the TFs started. -
If you weren't interested in tanking I'm a big fan these days of claws/fire with as much recharge as you can get.
Recharge gives is good for getting your heal back faster, getting you double stacked follow-up which goes great with blazing aura... it gets rise of the pheonix up faster, too.
The only difficulty I have when playing my claws/fire scrapper is that I can't shake the feeling that I need to have HUGE CLAWS... the skins available aren't intimidating enough for the look i'm going for... Instead of something you use to slice tomatoes, i'm thinking of something you pull with a tractor.
Anyway, the OP wants to tank for non-buffers... /Invul and /will are pretty good suggestions. -
Quote:If you have to counter that many people, perhaps you're not in the majority on this issue. eh?Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Rush Bolt, All Hell, Panzerwaffen, DrHR:
I've been around for several years, I know how to build. All my characters have Stamina, triple slotted and endurance reduction in every power. The point, which you either missed or ignored, is that it's not fun standing around unable to act. Not in this game, nor in any other.
CaptA:
I'm referring to characters throughout their careers, and not just between battles.
Psycho Jas:
Ok...
Iceboxer:
It's most obvious and crippling on characters that do less damage because they're using more endurance to defeat the same foes. It's still an issue all around, though.
ShoeTattoo:
I agree.
SinisterDirge:
Endurance should be part of the game. I said that in the first post. However, it shouldn't be a "constraint" on fun. As it is, it's excessively constraining.
I agree soloability is important, but I do think EVERY character should be comparably able to do so.
Biospark:
You illustrate part of what I'm saying. We spend a lot of time and energy achieving higher levels and new, cool powers, then can't use them because we're out of endurance. Why bother leveling if I'm going to be forced to use my Power Bolts instead of everything else due to endurance issues. Your suggestions are valuable, but I think they're a band-aid on a broken leg. They don't really solve the problem.
Frosticus:
Chances are you're using less endurance because your allies are defeating the foes for you, or because there's someone with an endurance reducing power helping you. Again, as mentioned above, you shouldn't need a PhD in character design to be able to have fun with it. Frankenslotting and advanced building and whatnot is well and good, but often isn't useful and is usually beyond the casual player.
Soloability is important. I'd be willing to bet 90% of the time people are soloing in the game. Every class should be equally able to solo (though through different means) and should still bring something unique to a team. THAT would be good design.
Postagulous:
If you say so...
Nethergoat:
Then you're a rarity, or have spent billions of Influence on your character.
Firewyvern:
Yes, I have, and as I said in the original post, none of them are as restrictive as this game is. I can go to Lord of the Rings Online and fight pretty much continuously without fear of running out of power before I defeat my foe. That is, battles are decided not by lack of power, but by lack of health, which is how it should be.
Emberley:
Personal slights won't change the fact that endurance costs are excessive.
Fulmens:
Personal attacks, such as blatantly accusing me of lies, will be reported. Watch your step.
Firey-Enforcer:
As I mentioned, I'm referring to characters across all levels.
GavinRuneBlade:
I'm not necessarily suggesting a total revamp, just an assesment and a recalibration.
Rush Bolt:
The case is in experience. That is, it's just not fun running out of endurance so fast. Sure, if you're fighting an army, or a foe that takes an unusual long time to beat, then perhaps you should have an issue. Fighting a typical spawn should not exhaust you. If you want numbers, just compare damage output. All characters are expected to defeat the same foes, meaning they all have to inflict the same total damage. Some deal that damage for less endurance. THAT is part of the problem. As I said before, it should be a limit, but not on fun.
Uberguy:
I'll admit I have made some concept builds, but I AM an experienced player. I HAVE taken advice and tried many of the suggestions offered. I've found them all to be inadequate. Yes, build should have some impact, and yes tactics should be important, but if the main tactic inthe game is NOT doing anything because you have no endurance then I see that as a problem. I've also said in the past, that if a build is to be possible, it should be capable, too. I'm not pretending designing that is easy, but it sure wouldn't be hard to make endurance use less prohibitive. Also, I feel I should warn you against personal slights. You haven't made any directly, but you're treading the line. I hope we can keep things civil and hopefully productive.
Fulmens:
I wasn't aware of that new power until this thread, but it only illustrates to me that the devs have recognized there's an issue. Again, I see it as a band-aid, not a solution.
Milady's Knight:
I agree with your analysis, but I don't think the devs have done enough.
Cybernaut:
Having Rest always available would certainly be nice, but it's not really between battles that the problem lies. Starting at SOs would be nice, but again, I don't think it fixes the main issue.
Oedipus Tex:
I'd agree with you, but I do think Endurance should be in the game. I just find its impact far too significant. I certainly wouldn't miss it if it was removed entirely, though.
Sunstormer:
It just seems to me the challenge should be overcoming the enemy, not your endurance woes.
Johhny Butane:
Nice to see someone in agreement with me. I also hope the devs will do something with the endurance situation.
Merry Mint:
I think you're getting what I'm saying. Endurance should be part of the game, just not the main obstacle to overcome.
I apologize in advance as I'm not likely to make a detailed response like this again, it's just too hard to keep track of everything and is rather time consuming. I'll respond to points I find particularly interesting or illuminating, and I thank you all for your considered responses. -
Quote:Keep one? Oh, heh... you mean for my teamates. I'll think about it.Originally Posted by Jaelen
insp_delete Awaken$$insp_delete Bounce Back$$insp_delete Restoration
If you want to actually keep one, get a Restoration and remove that part of the bind/macro. -
Wow... I like it. Gonna add this to my bag-o-tricks too.
Is there a way to delete wakies? they always screw up my insperation use because you can't just eat them to get to the next row of insperations. -
Dark has a better heal and some interesting options with fear and stun auras. Dark uses A LOT of endurance.
Electric has better resists and actually helps with endurance.
I don't have a spines/dark, but that's a very common build that a lot of people play so there's a lot of discussion about it on the forums. I do have a spines/elec and I enjoy it a lot. -
There's idiots everywhere... some of them organize task forces.
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Is it wrong that I couldn't tell at first if Billz's avatar was Whoopie Goldburg or James Earl Jones?
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I'm working on some slotting for damage auras and it occured to me that I don't really know exactly how procs work in the auras. Is there a roll ever 10 seconds or every tick of damage? Does it roll for each target in range individually? etc..
Also, if anyone has a recommended slotting for damage shields I'd like to know what you chose and why.
Thanks.
edit: I should have said damage aura in the title. -
I've toyed with this concept a lot. I'd caution you about the use of hasten. You'll lose it when you die. So if you're counting on it ot help recharge your RoTF (and use it in an attack chain) then you need to die just before recasting it. That was too messy for my tastes so I went without hasten on the build.
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In my opinion, this is probably one of the better scrapper builds I've created. Unfortunately, I'll never get around to making this toon myself.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), HO:Nucle(13)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(42), Aegis-ResDam(45), Numna-Heal(45), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(46), Numna-Heal/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(5), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), GA-3defTpProc(40)
Level 4: Slash -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(7), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Hectmb-Dam%(15), Achilles-ResDeb%(15)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(40), HO:Enzym(40)
Level 8: Follow Up -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), HO:Nucle(11)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(33)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(42), Zephyr-ResKB(48)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- HO:Golgi(A), HO:Golgi(17), HO:Golgi(29)
Level 18: Focus -- Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(19), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(21), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(21), Apoc-Dam%(25)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(29), EndMod-I(31)
Level 22: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(27)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(33), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RctvArm-EndRdx(39)
Level 26: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(34), HO:Enzym(34)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(34), HO:Enzym(36)
Level 30: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(31), Numna-Heal/Rchg(33)
Level 32: Eviscerate -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(39), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 35: Confront -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(37), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(37)
Level 38: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(39)
Level 41: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(42), EndMod-I(43)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(45), HO:Enzym(46)
Level 47: Spin -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(48), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Jump Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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Set Bonus Totals:- 28.5% Defense(Smashing)
- 28.5% Defense(Lethal)
- 16.9% Defense(Fire)
- 16.9% Defense(Cold)
- 17.6% Defense(Energy)
- 17.6% Defense(Negative)
- 6% Defense(Psionic)
- 17.3% Defense(Melee)
- 14.1% Defense(Ranged)
- 13.8% Defense(AoE)
- 5.4% Max End
- 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 47.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 10% FlySpeed
- 190.8 HP (14.2%) HitPoints
- 10% JumpHeight
- 10% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 14.9%
- 6% (0.1 End/sec) Recovery
- 40% (2.24 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire)
- 2.52% Resistance(Cold)
- 20% RunSpeed
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