Geez What level are you at and what are you trying to fight? I have several /SD Scrappers and none ever had the issue you describe. Okay I tend to hit the sewers on a 7-8 manteam in Atlas and come out of there a 6-8 level depending but after that I was able to solo/team effectively with both my DM/SD and my BS/SD Scrapper. I am talking even before DOs let alone SOs. Sure you need to go a little slower at lower levels and take on one mob at a time but I don't recall ever having to back away from a battle .. I just pop a respite if I get too low on health and keep pounding till nothing was left standing but me. Heck with my DM/SD by the time I hit SOs I was upping the difficulty solo to level faster and make it more interesting. I'm not saying SD is THE best secondary but it certainly never gave me those sorts of problems
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Oi, what level is your character? 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
I logged off at level 19 Tuesday morning, as I recall. Outcasts, 5th, Council, Vahzilok, and Trolls were giving me fits solo at 0 to +1. Solitary Lts. and Bosses I could do, but two-three minions and a Lt. (or, say, one or two minions and two Lts) would often be too much.
I think I have both the starting toggles, the HP boost, and Active Defense (I hate click mez protection, but que sera). Not much slotting there, yet, as I focussed on my attacks first (Charged Brawl, Havoc Punch, and the jumping AoE smash). Still, it seems exceedingly squishy unless I have a Luck handy.
Don't think I'll have room for Tough/Weave.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
For me, most of my Scrappers always seem squishy up until I get SOs. Just hang in there. Mind showing your build? I'd like to know what would be taking the place of Tough/Weave. It's been a very long time since I have gone without either powers on any of my Scrappers.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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I'm not sure I saved it, as I was more pondering than stone-setting. I'll take a gander when I get home. I'm not a big fan of Tough/Weave in general, though. Taking either means first wasting a power choice on an attack I don't want. And then Weave, as I recall, gives a disappointing amount of Defense for the End cost. I believe I've taken it on only two characters, a Scrapper who was designed to be nearly all toggles and a Willpower Tanker for whom the End cost is laughable.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
For me, most of my Scrappers always seem squishy up until I get SOs. Just hang in there. Mind showing your build? I'd like to know what would be taking the place of Tough/Weave. It's been a very long time since I have gone without either powers on any of my Scrappers.
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I'm not even sure I'm getting a travel power any time soon, or what it will be. I think I was getting Combat Jumping somewhere in the 20s with Super Jump coming at 50 for lack of anything better to choose, but now that I've been playing the character I'm thinking of going the Flight route.
I know I grabbed all the Shield Powers, three from Fitness, the three aforementioned attacks plus Lightning Rod, Build Up, and possibly Lightning Clap and/or Chain Induction. And either Conserve Power or FA in order to get Physical Perfection (possibly the latter as I was pondering trying to six slot it with... Gaussians To-Hit set?). And I'm pretty sure I took Maneuvers, which is also a bit disappointing for the End cost but compensates for it by benefitting the whole team, stacking with Grant Cover, and not taking more than one power choice.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Generally this is how it is for def sets pre SO's at which point they take a gigantic stride forward.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Presumably that Shield I'm carting around will eventually start doing something useful, right?
Right now, when solo, I'm reluctant to fight any group higher than -1 level from me if there's a Lieutenant in the group. I suppose it's going to take more slots and getting to SO level before the defense becomes noticeable. |
That said, don't be afraid of using def inspires, they tend to go a lot further than greens.
I have this problem too, i have SOs yet at x2/+0 it's hard for me to go threw a bunch of enemies without low hp, i have like 18 point something defense, but i don't think that's enough, i am lvl 23
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You WANT Chain Induction. Your single target chain is pretty pathetic without it, and in a big group it will jump all over the place and add to AoE output (Disclaimer: If it actually kills anything the chain stops there, so if you drop your main target with it, it won't chain at all) |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I know I grabbed all the Shield Powers, three from Fitness, the three aforementioned attacks plus Lightning Rod, Build Up, and possibly Lightning Clap and/or Chain Induction. And either Conserve Power or FA in order to get Physical Perfection (possibly the latter as I was pondering trying to six slot it with... Gaussians To-Hit set?). And I'm pretty sure I took Maneuvers, which is also a bit disappointing for the End cost but compensates for it by benefitting the whole team, stacking with Grant Cover, and not taking more than one power choice.
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Lightning Clap is probably the most universally skipped power in Electric, along with Confront. It stuns them and sends everything flying, forcing it all out of your damage boost aura. This is a bad thing.
Grant Cover's benefit is that it has a lot of your defense debuff resistance. Your teammates need to be right on top of you to get any defense from it.
If you've ever played SR, you should know that any defense-based set is pretty squishy until you get SOs. If you heavily IO a Shield Defense scrapper it becomes one of the most beastly secondaries currently in the game.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Even on SOs, Shield Defense is kind of squishy compared to other scrappers. It's not unlivable, but be prepared to eat insps and kill things before they can kill you blapper-style.
The mention of BS/SD and DM/SD doesn't really hold much weight here, as those are two mitigation-heavy primaries (and the def bonus and -tohit each stack well with the defense Shield has). An elec/shield on SOs is a lot more fun if you stop thinking of it as the squishiest scrapper and start thinking of it as the sturdiest blapper on the block. This changes as you fill out your power picks (you'll end up with a lot of powers each giving a small amount of defense) but for now just run with it and chug inspirations as fast as they come.
My MA/SD scrapper hit 22 last night. I've been soloing at +0/x2 since about level 5.
Deflection has been 6 slotted 3dam-res/3def since I think level 7.
True grit has 3health.
While it is true that ALL defense sets pretty much suck before SOs, having the trouble you describe implies bad build decisions.
EDIT: My main issue has been endurance usage. But now that I have 2 SOs in stamina at 22, that problem has gone away.
Be well, people of CoH.
My BS/SD is sitting at 29 at the moment and lately the biggest challenge was my mirror self in the new arc. Everything else seems to melt away. However, I tend to cruise at +0x0 at the moment due to limited time online and the fact that my warshade has needed some care lately.
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Yeah, I know. They have to be nearly close enough to give me a Phalanx bonus, the bums.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Grant Cover's benefit is that it has a lot of your defense debuff resistance. Your teammates need to be right on top of you to get any defense from it.
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| If you've ever played SR, you should know that any defense-based set is pretty squishy until you get SOs. If you heavily IO a Shield Defense scrapper it becomes one of the most beastly secondaries currently in the game. |
I'm hoping to eventually get some IO sets into this character, though I don't usually bother going beyond basic IOs due to the prohibitive costs (and lately, the market not having recipes I'm after).
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Originally Posted by Bill_Z_Bubbles
While it is true that ALL defense sets pretty much suck before SOs, having the trouble you describe against implies bad build decisions.
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After taking a closer look at Shield Defense for Scrappers' totals and finding them a bit anemic on their own, I suppose I'll be working in Tough and Weave after all.
This is what I'm working with so far. Comes out to about 32-33% Defense before working in any sets.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Higher Arc E: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Havoc Punch -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(5), Empty(7), Empty(15), Empty(17)
Level 1: Deflection -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(19), DefBuff-I(23), ResDam-I(34), ResDam-I(37), ResDam-I(50)
Level 2: Charged Brawl -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(5), Empty(7), Empty(15), Empty(17)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(19), DefBuff-I(23)
Level 6: True Grit -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(29), Heal-I(31), Heal-I(43), Heal-I(43), ResDam-I(46)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Empty(A), Empty(9), Empty(9), Empty(11), Empty(13), Empty(13)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 14: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(50)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 24: Chain Induction -- Empty(A), Empty(25), Empty(25), Empty(27), Empty(27), Empty(29)
Level 26: Maneuvers -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31), EndRdx-I(40), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Empty(A), Empty(33), Empty(33), Empty(33), Empty(34), Empty(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Empty(A), Empty(36), Empty(36), Empty(36), Empty(37), Empty(37)
Level 38: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(39), ResDam-I(39), EndRdx-I(39), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 41: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(42), DefBuff-I(42), EndRdx-I(42), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- Empty(A), Empty(45), Empty(45), Empty(45), Empty(46), Empty(46)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(48), EndMod-I(48), Heal-I(48), Heal-I(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I've been soloing at 0/x3/bosses with my fm/shield since 22 (SOs) and now at +1/x3 or +2/x3 (level 31) depending on enemy group. The reason I do fine with the low defs (I think around 24% at now with the steadfast unique and PF, unfortunately CJ will be my 49 power pick because fm/sd/blaze is tight as hell) is that when you solo in this setting (more players) inspirations rain.
Since you're elec/shield it may be a good idea to try that but with no bosses.
Defense doesn't do much for you until you start stacking it up. At some point you're going to want weave, and get a steadfast 3% def unique. All the love you hear for shields is from softcapped builds and that isn't going to happen until late game when you can start getting IO bonuses into your toon. Until then, carry around lots of purples. Wait until you're on a team and start pulling all the aggro with AAO... lol.
Is it wrong that I couldn't tell at first if Billz's avatar was Whoopie Goldburg or James Earl Jones?
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Glad you went with Tough/Weave. That build looks promising. Do you know what kind of IO sets you'd like to slot into it?
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
After taking a closer look at Shield Defense for Scrappers' totals and finding them a bit anemic on their own, I suppose I'll be working in Tough and Weave after all.
This is what I'm working with so far. Comes out to about 32-33% Defense before working in any sets. |
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Quote:
I believe that is milli vanilli.
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Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
Is it wrong that I couldn't tell at first if Billz's avatar was Whoopie Goldburg or James Earl Jones?
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Don't worry about your character being weak... Elec/Shield is a devastating combo. Only thing I find myself wanting is a small self heal.
On my Elec/Shield (who has Stamina, but not Tough/Weave), I leveled from 26 to 32 by soloing missions set to +0/x8... and I have only SOs. When I picked up Lightning Rod at 32, I bumped up the difficulty to +2/x8 and was killing them FASTER than at +0.
Until you get SOs (and make sure you slot your defensive toggles with them), be careful of using Against All Odds in teams... it's a Taunt Aura, and most people don't realize that. It WILL get the whole mob on you if you run in alongside the tank.
Once you get to lvl 33 and beyond though, you can go "Move over, Tanker, this is MY spawn!" and kill the whole room by yourself.
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Yeah, I'm not exactly new at this. I generally don't get heavy into the maths or IO optimizing, but I do have a notion about how Defense works and how as the percentage gets higher those tiny 1-3% bonuses become more and more significant. Since my Defense is only ~12% right now, as I recall, it's barely making a defensive dent. Especially against guys like the Council/5th, who I believe take significant bites out of Defense.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Defense doesn't do much for you until you start stacking it up. At some point you're going to want weave, and get a steadfast 3% def unique. All the love you hear for shields is from softcapped builds and that isn't going to happen until late game when you can start getting IO bonuses into your toon. Until then, carry around lots of purples. Wait until you're on a team and start pulling all the aggro with AAO... lol.
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Glad you went with Tough/Weave. That build looks promising. Do you know what kind of IO sets you'd like to slot into it?
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Lol so true. I did the new posi tf with 5 other scrappers and at the ambush door in Atlas Park... I was popping greens and purples like mad to stay alive, and the others' health bars barely moved and I was all 'wth do I suck at this game now?'... Till I realized I was the only shielder and all the aggro was on me.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Until then, carry around lots of purples. Wait until you're on a team and start pulling all the aggro with AAO... lol.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Lol so true. I did the new posi tf with 5 other scrappers and at the ambush door in Atlas Park... I was popping greens and purples like mad to stay alive, and the others' health bars barely moved and I was all 'wth do I suck at this game now?'... Till I realized I was the only shielder and all the aggro was on me.
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Ha, yeah, I remember using aao for the first time and thinking it was funny that I was pulling the aggro of my tank buddy, until I started running out of wakies...
Here is the basics build of my EM/SD
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Havoc Punch -- (A), (3), (3), (5), (5)
Level 1: Deflection -- (A), (7), (13)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- (A), (17), (17), (37), (43), (43)
Level 4: True Grit -- (A), (15), (15)
Level 6: Super Speed -- (A), (7), (27)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- (A), (9), (9), (11), (11), (13)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- (A), (19), (19), (42), (42), (43)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- (A), (21), (21), (23), (23), (46)
Level 22: Stamina -- (A), (27), (40)
Level 24: Hasten -- (A), (25), (25)
Level 26: Phalanx Fighting -- (A)
Level 28: Lightning Clap -- (A), (29), (29), (37), (39), (39)
Level 30: Boxing -- (A), (31), (31), (31), (34)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- (A), (33), (33), (33), (34), (34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- (A), (36), (36), (36), (37)
Level 38: Tough -- (A), (39), (40), (40), (42), (46)
Level 41: Char -- (A)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- (A), (45), (45), (45), (46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- (A), (48), (48), (48), (50)
Level 49: Weave -- (A), (50), (50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- (A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- (A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 0: Ninja Run
Lead Squirrel at Dr. E Spider robotic site #643
Nothing saids its your spot like an ourob. Portal dropped on the ground.
Presumably that Shield I'm carting around will eventually start doing something useful, right?
Right now, when solo, I'm reluctant to fight any group higher than -1 level from me if there's a Lieutenant in the group. I suppose it's going to take more slots and getting to SO level before the defense becomes noticeable.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound