Sagamemnon

Ghost Widows set looks impressive for certain pairings as well. Its just that controller Epics are so nice overall that the patrons show up a bit weak (as many people have pointed out before both were available to one toon).

But yeah Waterspout and Tornado is just calling so strongly, my Fire/Storm will never see her blue bar again.

Just curious if anyone has had a chance to test on the many patron pools for controllers and how they fare?

The idea of a 2nd pet is neat to me, but wondering how practical and effective the patron powers are on controllers. Some of the sets look really good, Waterspout and Tornado plz!!

Any thoughts?

Count me in, as one of TT's friends.

Don't count out Thermal. It has a lot of good support for Electric Control. Shields and Healing to help the gremlins stay alive and forge to beef them up. A huge -regen/recovery power and a rather nice AOE -res.

Since Thermal also has an AOE heal, it helps if your in melee with the melee toons. Granted RAD is the more powerfull debuff pairing. Still thermal brings a lot to the table to support electric control.

Couldn't agree with Billz more. Check out Lili's new guide, it gives the best breakdown of everything Doms have ATM.

It is very light on AOE tho, if that's your thing you should look for another set.

Elec/Psi, looks good together. I like PSI a lot since they buffed it. Great single target damage, a kick *** -recovery, some nice AOE when needed. In theory you could run without Stamina and health.

Elec/Energy, great damage output. Energy has mostly big hitting single target damage with extra mitigation to help Elec being light. Its got some stunning, lotsa KBing. Power Boost can really help if you going for sapping.

At some point after I get these 2 up high enough definatly gonna check out Elec/earth if for no other reason that /Earth is great fun and very strong single target melee damage. Seismic is just awesome in every regards.

Have a buddy who went /Ice for theme and the extra -rech from all the ice powers. Plus ice isn't a commonly resisted damage type and has some nice damage components as well as power boost.

I tried ELec/Elec but the sounds of the Elec secondary just made my primary sound to wimpy. Having a big jolting ZAP as I punched some fool in his faced, followed by a FIZZ has I hit em with my hold just didn't work for me. In pairing they go well together tho. Build Up from /Elec helps with damage output, but I don't know if getting another aggro happy pet will be good or not. Has to potential to get you into some serious trouble combined with the gremlins.

They can be handy for tough battles on most ATs. I agree the general consensus is they are good for any AT with a buffing secondary. Empathy is a set that screams for a pet, if you are goin solo. Personally I am a bit torn, I know I will be taking MAKO on my storm trollers for the Water Spout+Tornado combo. The idea of my Ice/Storm having Jack Frost and The Coralax to go along with those is very tempting. The idea of many of my controllers having 2 pets is really tempting and that my (mind) trollers can now have one is good too.

Recharge time on pets is 15 minutes with a 4 minute up time. Slotting can bring that down to 7-8 mins recharge. Which is about a 50/50 ratio of having the pet out. Not including global rech which can make em perma on insane-O builds.

However, I feel that they aren't the make or break power. They are a nifty perk that can be fun/beneficial, but not OMG AWESOME power that many may want.

You lazy bum!!!! Seriously tho, I think we can pull one together. Provided of course a few SGs can actually run one. 24 people on the same page, that's another story. However with team Ouph we only need half that count!!

I am in the I don't care who leads boat as well. Although I do a different approach to the pylon order. I start at pylon 17 since its the closest to the entrance. Something I learned from a buddy, that just made sense and have run with ever since. It doesn't make that much of a difference time wise , but seems to flow a bit better.

However since its counter intuitive to the way most have been doing it I only lead when Valor or someone else isn't already leading. Its not about leading it as much as doing it.

2 MSR zones goin at once would be an interesting sight, hopefully we can make it happen.

Raids were good. Although I have to wonder what the hell was up with the leader war? There was someone sending people tells to boycott the first raid!! Simply because someone else was leading.

It was squashed relatively quickly. Just found it humorous. All in all both raids were very good. The zone was locked quicker then usual for the first raid. Would be awesome next time we get 2 RWZs to have enough people on 2nd one start a MSR there.

Till next Sunday.

Gah, sorry. Have to correct an error. Ice Assualt does not have the -dam power. I was thinking of a different set. Apologies for misleading on that regards.

No problem, just remember that the AOE immob Stone Cages, wrecks the Flop from EQ for 10 seconds. On a team it may not be so much of a worry if stuff is dying fast. But I've seen many a dom spam their AOE immob on top of EQ and Ice Slick.

Good luck! You should have a blast with that combo.

In theory it should be a very solid combo. Earth has lock down and def debuff in spades. Ice Assault has some nice powers all with some nice -rech. It also gets a good -damage aura.

EQ will be vital in helping your survival in melee. Slotted for -to hit, with enemies flopping adding all that -rech and a decent -dam. Even better with power boost!!!

So You get every kind of debuff except for regen/recov debuffs.

Best part stoney will be right there in melee with you.

Oh yeah your last ice power has a serious -to hit which goes well with EQ for making even tough enemies hit you less.

In short you got lock downs a plenty, the ability to wreck an enemies recharge, minor damage debuffage, all with a fairly hard hitting and obscure damage type (cold not heavily resisted).

Interesting and thanks for the thoughts so far. Actually my title was misleading but more to attract attention. It was merely a debate on gravity versus illusion that made me ponder if Illusion was a 1 trick pony. I enjoy gravity and illusion albeit not as much as other control sets.

There are/were so many sets that had that 1 power that many people considered to be the crown jewel. The one set that even if the other 8 powers were mostly crappy (old Psi Assault) they played it. Then one the other 8 powers got a decent buff and the 1 OP'd power got reigned in, many people believed the set as a whole was unplayable. A concept which boggles my mind, but to each his own.

I would enjoy Illusion even if PA acted like Voltaic Sentinel, that is just personal opinion. Being that my Illusion/Rad has never fully attained Perma PA status, she is still formidable and has solo'd many AVs. However I know that most of it is from the awesomeness that PA is, and less so of my actual skill.

But thanks, for keeping a civil and rather polite discussion about what could conceivably be a Flame worthy subject.

So the other day I was talking with a buddy. We had a good debate about the power of illusion control versus gravity control. He was raving about how awesome Illusion is, and I asked him a question that stumped him. Wanted to get some views.

If phantom army had not taunt power and acted like voltaic sentinel would you still play illusion? and if so would it be worse then gravity?

This isn't an Illusion needs X troll. Or a gimp Illusion thread. I am just curious if making that one change would make Illusion control the worst set and have people climbing the bell towers so to speak. Its 1 power of 9, but it the set defining power and if it didn't allow you to tank the latest AV/GM would illusion still be OMG inspiring?

Hopefully this won't devolve into a flame war, but I brought my fire suit just in case

Just curious how the demons stack up to the other primaries in the 40s. To get and idea of what to expect.

Cool, there has been a MSR every sunday at 9pm EST. The last few weeks we have actually done 2 in a row. Look forward to seeing you there. Shall let peeps know your running one this time.

Traps is best over all secondary for increasing damage of your primary. It gets all the good stuff early. Storm is great damage but you gotta wait till 30s to see true benefits, and then its chaoticly good.

There will be debates till the end of time upon the highest damage. Generally Bots/Thugs are in the top tier. Being that they do most of their damage from range. Demons seem nasty with all the -res being tossed around. I have yet to hear the final verdict on END (40-50) builds tho. Being that demons spend a lot of time in melee means they do great damage but have a greater chance to get wiped in one shot.

Mercs are the absolute worst. Necro has some nice damage, but it gives up being top damage in the form of other perks and the penalty of being mostly in melee.

Back in the day, a Thugs/Poison beat out a Bots/Poison at being the quickest to take out spawns. Dunno if that still holds true.

From personal observations on all my MMs, I find that thugs are generally better at dishing out damage, followed swiftly by my bots. My mercs is terrible, My zombies are good, and My ninja are awesome if I can stay in melee and keep em alive. Don't have a high DEMON yet as I'm waiting for the scene to cool down before I get em to the high end.

From a power set point of view, Trick Arrow is extremely lacking. It is handily bested in the debuff department by most sets who also have buffs. No other set matches the damage that TA can do, if you can the friggin slick to light consistently. That is all TA has over other set.

Now that defenders have traps, you can see how glaringly weak TA is. Traps has more reliable -res with a -def component. Traps has a godly -regen (even if only for 10seconds) and it gets it stoopidly early the only -regen TA gets is rather weak and the very last power. PGT also beats that power in being able to hold people. Seekers do way more -Dam then Poison Gas Arrow with few other perks to boot. Traps gets a nice Def power (which cost no upkeep) and has some nice protection from certain mez. Web-nade is way better then Entangling Arrow. Hell the last 2 powers are total trash in traps and it still runs laps around Trick Arrow. NOTE: The 2nd to last power is not really trash, just my personal belief.

I mean the heal in Dark Miasma is a better debuff then most of the stuff in TA combined and it heals!!! That's not even the premier debuff in that set!!

I love trick arrow. Hell I geeked out when I got to run a TF on libs with luminara!! I have 2 lvl 50 Trick Arrow Trollers, and even a trick arrow MM!!! (The traps MM is sooo much better tho). I still think TA could use some help to make as effective as some of the other sets. Its a fun set, despite being over shadowed by every other set.

Sadly I think the controllers are throwing off the curve for the rest of the ATs. But someone once said it best. If Trick Arrow is only debuffs, then it should be one of the best at it!! Right now its not even in the top 5.

The costumes pieces look great. They do however lack in the over all mutant booster theme. While looking great many are mutually exclusive to either certain colors or other costume pieces.

The bioluminous effect is neat, the glow depending on light is kinda neat. I agree the face option should be available for any face. In a game that is based upon characters looking vastly different from each other, it seems strange to make so many limiting pieces.

Hopefully there is still time for them to listen to the pleas of their buyers and add a few of the options in this thread. Maybe someone should get them a copy of one of the Bloody Roar games for the next Animal Mutant themed booster?

They are only really good till lv 20 aren't they? The chance to do damage expires at lvl 20. Dam/Rech of 16% each is weak. They are starter items, much like Guild Wars did. A way to help out low level characters. Considering how fast one can hit 20 in the game they will be obsolete real quick. I

So if you pre order from NCSOFT and PS you get early access to Pistols and Demons. Pre order from Gamestop and you get 5 lowbie items for all your new toons to enjoy.

So did a lady grey tf today, heard there was a bug with green mitos being unkillable. We destroy everything fairly easy, get to the green mitos and BAM, not even a dent. Someone used a MK 3 Analyzer, and they have 90% res to all??? Some decent regen/recovery, serious debuff defense and they heal each other!!

After 10 minutes of no attack (Holds, Immob, Ranged, Melee) doing any significant damage even with stacking heaps of -res & blasters using Aim/Build Up!! Are they using actual HAMI stats?

Anyone else have this problem? Waited 20 mins with no sign of GM help so everyone quit. As is the lady grey is pretty much unbeatable due to the status of the green mitos.

Lightning Rod doesn't break stealth. It does however aggro the hell out of everything and they will respond in kind. So what ever follow up attack you want to crit, needs to be activated really fast and hope you have really good DEF to not get interrupted. That being said LR followed by CRIT'd Thunderstrike is truely amazing sight.

The best part of Defiance is that you can use tier 1 and tier 2 blasts while mezzed. That gives it a significant damage boost in many situations. More so when mez becomes more prominent, you can burn through break frees pretty fast. Nothing is worse then having 1/4 of your health, no break frees and getting killed by a boss with less then 10% of his HP as you watch helplessly

Serious note I think they both work out to be roughly the same, as others have pointed out.

If vigilantes can indeed start villain content then I can see Red Side market being dead. If vigilantes can not start SFs/Arcs, then I see people making most of their toons vigilantes with a few Rogues to start said SFs/Arcs.

Sadly neither case is good for the Black Market which is already on its death bed. Low player base over all, combined with red side having as few as 1/2-1/4 of the players that blue side has at any given time. Now you got most of that minority already planning to split to blue side and red side will be much much worse.

Add in the fact that the new Incarnate system and high lvl stuff is in the new land and very few heroes will probably cross to red side for some time. That is until they are done with all the newness that praetoria brings, then its likely that they'll go after those red side badges.

I am not entirely in favor of a market merger with going rogue. If the markets were merged I would want it to be in a free issue/update, not for the people who bought rogue. That will bring a whole new slew of troubles tho, I imagine.

As is I think red side will crash and burn and everyone becoming vigilantes, especially if they can start red side content. Which I am seriously hoping is not the case. I think that only villains/rogues should only be able to start SFs/Do contacts for their side. Not a popular thought I know.