RemianenI

You guys are so sensitive.

When I read the comment, (even though Twoflower won't admit it) I thought it was directed at Venture. I haven't seen a single reviewer here who is as biting in his criticism as he is. Some people like that (I know I do; give it to me straight with no chaser. Don't pretty it up. If you hated it, say you hated it without prefacing it with flowery language), other people hate it. I've played every arc he (and PW) has reviewed and while Police Woman is generally the kind, nurturing sort, Venture is 'BZZZT! Try again!'. I haven't always agreed with either of them but I see the differences in their approaches and take it into consideration. I really don't want to have to wade through all the trash that's still clogging up the MA.

Wait, isn't the last objective of that mission 'Escape with the relics' or something? Why are you bothering to fight anything? I've done that arc several times, with different ATs and haven't died once. It's just like real life. You hear the cops coming, you bail.

Yes. Look here. To quote the relevant part:

Really? Is EVE an MMO? What's the level cap there? What? You say it's a different game? Why yes, yes it is. Just like this game is different from what you might be used to. It's no more 'silly' to not design a static 'end game' in an MMO than it is to treat every MMO like it's the exact same thing as every other MMO.

Hmm, I don't remember this from EQ. Perhaps you didn't play that one. I know one reason why I have so many characters over 70 (and 80) is because of a desire to have other characters to support my 'main'. Most of the high end players I knew of were similar. Yes, even post-mercs, many of us kept our 'box clerics' (cuz they were better and well geared). Actually, except for faction/key farming, most folks only played their 'mains' for raids, working up supporting or alternate characters during off-days.

Anyway, this is just to illustrate that even your experiences in 'every other MMO' you've played can differ from others. Likewise, different MMOs have different styles and focuses. In every MMO I'm familiar with, there are people who have no problem playing one character to the exclusion of all else. Then there are folks who prefer to have the versatility that comes with experience playing several classes in challenging content. (On a side note, I always find it odd that it's always the latter group who are asked to 'log in your X, I need help with Y' by the former group) The same concept holds true here.

I'm the opposite. For the longest time (4 years, basically), I didn't see a point in having a 50 here. 'There's nothing left to do. 50 is 'the end' for a character.' To an extent, that's true (since I build characters on the way up, I tend to have the sets I want by the time I get to 50 and purples aren't the same as high end raid gear in other games) I actually prefer it when 'the best' changes every so often since it always gives me something to shoot for (typically after I've farmed the bejeezus out of the previous 'best' for months).

I dunno about you but when I was in school, people who were willfully stupid and lazy, got called on it. Didn't your parents teach you 'the truth shall set you free'? Tell the truth, call a spade a spade (and not 'a shovel' because someone might get offended), and be free.

I disagree. They deserve to forever be poor and looking for handouts.

Wouldn't work. Head's too thick. Ever try giving a cinder block wall a swift boot?

This. Except I don't sympathize at all. In fact, as irrational as it sounds even to me, I sometimes despise these people for impeding progress. "We can't do that because it's resource intensive and the game still has to be playable for the person with the 5-series video card and less than a gig of RAM." Ugh.

I don't want to stone you. I completely agree. Let's face it, if people didn't HAVE to upgrade their rigs to run new software (not just games, though games are often the most common reason), we'll all still be using PCjrs or Amiga 1000s or some such crap. Granted, I fit firmly in the 'enthusiast' category (glares at the AGEIA PhysX card on the floor) but there are two year old computers that giggle at this game on full settings and they're well under a grand (heck under $600 even, without the monitor). $600 every 2-3 years does not strike me as an excessive expense on what amounts to a hobby (if said rig isn't used for business purposes and can't be written off). Collecting comics is more expensive.

There might not be one. Devs are human. As such, they often have friends (inside or outside the industry) that they talk shop to. Heck, I could tell you stuff about Copernicus (Curt Schilling's forthcoming MMO) that was never posted on their forums but was said over beers and/or dinner. The first hints of Sigil's imminent demise (as well as the real state of Vanguard) weren't posted on its forums but were talked about in earnest nonetheless. Employees are funny that way. Employees whose paychecks bounce are HILARIOUS in that way (right Perpetual?).

That's true to a point. But in other MMOs (like the one you played and especially its predecessor), if you have crap gear, there aint no amount of 'skill' you can possibly have that'll make up for that. You're talking about characters in a raid force with basically the same level of gear. Try having your MT tank a current content boss with two expansion old gear. No amount of 'skill' is going to make that tank sturdy enough to do the job (unless your idea of skill is 'bring more Templars').

Your point is well taken though. It's just not as universal as you might think.

hehehe I like the 'sometimes', that is too true.

Plot device. In other fictional worlds, you see the same thing. For example, in Forgotten Realms, Chosen of Mystra are immortal....except when they're not (Syluné, Blackstaff, Qilué). The immortality thing exists to make an actual death more impactful since it is considered the ultimate sacrifice.

Ghost Widow and Scrapyard are classic examples of the 'returned for a purpose' type of death. Kelly is an example of how Croatoa is being pulled into the spirit world (as are the ghosts there). The body bags are used to apply drama and gravity to a situation. Just like Sefu's family.

BABs is speaking in general terms. Or at least, that's how I saw it. Besides, I was under the impression that some groups (most notably the Vahzilok) have devices that can be used to override or jam the medicom devices. JD's villain character (Blood-Wolf?) has one. I vaguely recall him linking to some lore thing that implied that (though I could definitely be misremembering).

In general terms, this is true and it does have a historical basis in fact. But that's not really how things tend to work nowadays, with even "street gangs" getting involved in politics (Latin Kings, as an example). You'd be surprised at how well represented so-called street gangs are in the American lobbying community. That's an example of how 'tough/challenging opponents' can be good for business.

And, as I noted, I've done missions where that wasn't the case at all. Which is the correct state of affairs then? And does the variance in our experiences using the same settings (I've done +0/x6/no bosses prior to going down to -1) indicate a problem?

I would agree. More options would be good. However, I think before new options are added, the existing system should work according to the way the devs planned.

Would you see the big deal if bosses were the dominant spawn in your mission(s)? If minions and LTs were rare and the vast majority of the spawns in your mission(s) were bosses? That's what's happening with some missions or mission arcs.

I also play mainly redside but I have a problem with features that don't do what they're said to do. I don't have issues with bosses (at least not beyond level 12. Prior to that, a mission full of them would get dropped. It's totally inefficient) but I do have a problem with a setting not doing what it's said to do. Prior to additional options being added, I'd like to see the boss option turned into a binary equation (an on/off switch, so to speak) until they fix the underlying spawn problems.


Problem is, that stealth fix might've created an issue with the new system.

This entire argument is flawed because there hasn't been any evidence that if given a chance to run a traditional offense, Vick couldn't do it. Incidentally, the same argument and the same knock was made against pretty much all prominent mobile quarterbacks of the modern era. McNabb, Cunningham, Young, Elway, all of them were said to be incapable of running 'mainstream' offenses due to their mobility. Considering the fact that two of them are Hall of Famers (with rings), and the other two morphed into pocket passers later in their careers (you know, when their mobility dipped), I don't think it's a fair assertion.

It's like saying LaDainian Tomlinson can't run in the 1-cut because he's never done it before. Vick has never worked in an offense with the weapons the Eagles have. DeSean is coming into his own as a go-to receiver, Maclin is giving safeties fits, and the other receivers fit the system so well, Vick wouldn't HAVE to run as much (unlike the situation when he was in Atlanta). Furthermore, if LeSean McCoy develops quickly, it bolsters the running game so opposing safeties will have to play closer to the line of scrimmage which further frees your receivers. With a quarterback like Vick (and his notorious mobility) paired with a feared running attack, play action (and bootlegs, real or faked) takes on a whole new dimension.

For good reason. Mike Brown (heck, the Brown family) is probably one of the most inept GMs/owners in the league. Only Al Davis is worse. I still don't understand why you take headcase Andre Smith that high, instead of trading down and taking Phil Loadholt (a better pass protector, at a cheaper slot price, with additional picks to boot) when you have THAT quarterback with his history. I see Smith turning into another Tony Mandarich/Robert Gallery type (read: F L O P !), which would fit the Bengals.

It's a good move. It costs them nothing and adding another dimension to your special teams is usually a good thing. Casual fans don't tend to understand how integral special teams can be to a team's success (the battle of field position). You don't have to be Devin Hester to be a successful return man (though nobody would complain if you were ).

With all due respect, I (and many of the people I started out with) didn't need those lessons. We learned them running from Qeynos to Freeport in EQ1, way back in "the olden days". Translating the same logic to this (or any other) game was beyond simple.

Speaking of which, I was turned on to CoH by a guildie who was going to be kicked from guild for skipping raids (to play CoH, I later learned). So from the moment I started playing, he was showing and teaching me all about the game (that wasn't necessarily a good thing. Hi Brickstown tram!). Anyway, I'm playing my blaster (fire/dev because, as he told me, smoke grenade is 'f-in ridiculous. You gotta get it!') and, having played a druid and wizard extensively in EQ1, I kited everything when solo. No no, you don't understand, I mean EVERYTHING. Enter mission, find first spawn, throw down caltrops, and run in circles around the group throwing fire blast and fireball (no flares because "that power sucks", as I was told) at them until they di...err, were defeated. Then, wait for caltrops to recharge, move to the next group and repeat. Then I complained about how leveling speed here was worse than in EQ (yeah, I'm sure elemental planes access there and playing this game like a special needs player had nothing to do with it ).

My first day playing, I thought the only place people teamed was at the Brickstown tram (and that most of the team had to stay at the station for some reason).

For a week, I thought Kings Row was a high level zone whose intent was to kill low level toons by tricking them into thinking it was low level (with the spawns near the tram). Why did I think that? Because the first four times I entered the zone, I got flattened in seconds by a level 30+ ambush of some kind.

I thought you could only enter your character's bio at creation. So while making one character (dark/dark defender), I spent so much time on her costume and bio that I thought I had switched to the rad/rad defender I had intended to make next. As a result, my dark/dark defender has the name I had planned to give the rad/rad.

First stalker (so I should've been a vet, right???), I set her up like I do all my characters and put brawl on auto. Then wondered why my assassin's strikes weren't doing as much damage as people said it should (hey moron, try not attacking and dropping hide before you AS!).

I like this guy (or girl, as the case may be).

CoX Junkie, someone posts an issue where the difficulty system possibly isn't working as the devs may have wanted, and they're crying? Kinda like the drop rate problem that "wasn't a problem" according to many (that is, until it was), was people crying. Got it!

Patently false:

(emphasis mine)

When you raise your team size, it overrides your boss setting (or seems to).

I've had Sam's problem with certain groups (Carnies, all of the Croatoa factions, etc). I've done -1/x6/no bosses in Croatoa and gotten a boss-level Sorceress of the Winds in every other spawn (except for the spawns of TWO of them). What's worse than one hurricane? TWO of them. It doesn't bother me as much as it could but that's mainly because I tend to only run strong builds. I can see how it would be sh...um, poop on a shingle for a concept build or a build that isn't one of the stronger pri/sec combos.

And whenever a discussion like this comes up, someone always mentions how it works with teams. I don't think that's the issue here. Sam brought up (in the original post, for reference) how things are working for him solo. You know, sans team? I don't give a flying flip how it's working for teams, teams always trivialize content. No team worth joining, in my view, is going to turn their difficulty DOWN to the levels Sam notes he's running at solo. The feature may not be working as intended since, I was under the impression that the 'boss when solo' part was supposed to operate independently of the team size part. Like Perfect Pain notes, I thought it was supposed to jack up the amount of spawns and allow folks to decide whether they wanted to see bosses at all. Oh and raising the team size automatically adds levels, just like it did in the old system (i.e. Unyielding = +2 with double spawns) so +0/+2/no bosses adds a level to the mobs you're fighting. That's what clued me in to the system not working in absolute fashion. Each option bleeds into or affects the others.

Also, 'too easy' is relative and highly subjective. I've maxed out (primary class and subclass) four (almost five when I quit) characters in Lineage II. Every western MMO is 'too easy' to me. You can't get there from here.

Right but the use of lethal force strips him of his heroic status, regardless of his previous aversion to the method, right? And the 'silliness' of Final Crisis is debatable. In my view, it underlined Batman's ability to see beyond rhetoric and idealism and do what needed to be done, regardless of how that was accomplished. Darkseid needed killin' and the only means of doing so was with a gun so Batman made 'a once in a lifetime exception' and got the job done, at great person risk & cost. It's what makes the character compelling, in my view.

But who gets to determine whether a character subscribes to this heroic ideal you cite? You? Or the character's creator? That's my problem with broad brush classifications. None of my heroes believe in the heroic ideal you mention. Not a single one of them. The rate of recidivism is so high in Paragon City, many (if not most) criminals go to their graves committing crimes. Thus, culling their numbers is in Paragon City's best interest. Since heroes aren't responsible for attacking the root cause of criminality (i.e. poverty and the like), we can only deal with the after effects. Non-lethal force is indeed preferred but it's not the only means of accomplishing the public safety goal. Besides that, if my heroes are involved in something, those people in front of me are criminals that baseline/mundane law enforcement is ill-equipped to deal with. So they pass 'em off to us.

Then again, I've despised Captain America and Superman since I was little.

No more stupid than your assertion or belief that every hero should (or does) adhere to the same ideal.

As I said, I have no issues with additional skins, as long as they make sense. BAB's comment on damage types is great, I think. A lethal damage attack shouldn't have a smashing damage skin IMO.

This (though I only made 2.1 billion). I use AE now to buy rare salvage and for random rolls to sell. Contrary to many people's beliefs, there are still over a dozen efficient (though not as much so as pre-I16) farms in MA that are excellent for ticket accrual. While leveling a newbie toon isn't quite as fast now as it was previously, it's still a helluva lot faster than normal teams can accomplish. Double XP weekend was well timed as it allowed me to push up through the boring (i.e. pre-20) levels the conventional way. But I still have quite a few more who need work and AE is better for that, for me.

Yep. It's also more efficient when you factor in travel time (or lack thereof), especially blueside. Running the Fusionette Task Force/MercyTown are MUCH more efficient than the comparable number of radio missions, for example. Much better storywise too, no matter how many times I've done them previously.

Argument fails because none of those examples you use were ever the case previously. No 'random mission door in Talos' was ever packed to bursting in the past. No random trial or TF/SF contact was ever packed to bursting in the past (not even when the TF/SF was first released, i.e. STF/LRSF/ITF or the 'Speed Katie' period). Reason being, there are too many of them and there was never a time when a level 2 could do Katie Hannon. You can't compare the 'AE craze' to any other period in CoX history. It doesn't compute. As many have said previously, it was a perfect storm of conditions that led to what occurred during that time. Between easily exploitable custom mobs (i.e. mobs with no ranged attacks, mobs with bloated xp values for their rank, etc) and auto-level scaling regardless of natural level, extreme reward slant (pre-ticket cap, as the most glaring example), and so forth, trying to compare it to standard content that was never able to take advantage of those things, is an exercise in futility.

AE is "dead" (and I use the term in strictly tongue in cheek fashion) because its reward structure isn't as overwhelmingly dominant over normal content anymore. It still has utility and it's still useful to those who look beneath the surface, but most people aren't interested in doing that. It's no longer what "everyone" is doing and the initiators (i.e. the people starting and running those teams) are no longer there so the sheeple aren't there anymore either.

In my case, this is absolutely false. I've been playing this game since May of 2004 (with a couple breaks to play elsewhere). I've seen this game pre and post-Purple patch, pre and post-Smoke Grenade nerf, pre and post-Burn nerf, weathered all the various Regen nerfs, seen the highs of I4 Invuln and the lows of I5. In fact, I signed up for my first yearlong subscription term (on two accounts)....three weeks before I5 hit Test. I've been here. Even with the Founder's Club sub in LOTRO (that I never use) and the lifetime sub in Champions, I still took advantage of the year sub promotion offered by NC.....a month after I had resubbed both accounts for a year (so I'm here for 2.5 more years, just about). Fast advancement means nothing to me....as long as I can still buy more character slots. And taking a wild guess here, I'm thinking it'll take me more than 2.5 years to level and fully IO out 704 characters (11 servers, 32 characters per server, 2 accounts), even with pre-I16 AE leveling speed.

Yeah, I'm an extreme case (if only due to having two accounts) but using the logic that 'giving the players a fast rate of advancement will fuel your subscriber churn' sells short your longtime players who don't see that as be-all, end-all. There are people right now who have two dozen (or more) 50s and they're still playing.

While I don't agree with the 'I pay $15, I should be able to do what I want and have everything I want' crowd, I also don't think you should pander to the opposite end of the spectrum (which I would pretty much be a part of, given the fact that 'Asian grind MMOs' don't affect me in the least). The answer lies somewhere in the middle, where AE is a viable alternative to standard content. We're not quite there yet (many of the recent changes have mainly impacted story writers far moreso than farm creators) but hopefully we will be soon enough.

This has been my experience as well.
Yep, I saw it on Virtue at the WW in Atlas Park over the weekend. You can tell who these toons are (their names give them away) but it must've been a shift change since the toon didn't actually say anything while I was there.

I concur. But progress will always have opposition as with the cell phone ("Use a pay phone. They're everywhere!"), portable music players ("So AM and FM aren't good enough for you? You want to choose your own music?!?"), and so on.

It depends on where you take those characters. These people work from population centers in most games. So folks who run through places like Atlas Park, Talos Island, and PI blueside and Mercy, Cap, and Grandville redside, tend to get disproportionate amounts of email spam compared to people who either avoid those zones or don't stay in them very long. My market characters got TONS of spam emails but my play characters got relatively few (though it increased when they reached the levels they would be actively spending in the aforementioned zones).

It's like that in every MMO with email spammers. I haven't yet gotten any tell spam but I don't think it's too far away. Once they program something that allows them to automate the process, it'll become the de facto standard for these people.

Uh, you do realize Batman has killed people before yes? With a gun no less (most recently, shooting and killing Darkseid in Final Crisis #6).

Rian brings up a good point which begs the question, why is this an issue for you now? Did you not read comics previously? Did you not see this very same thing occurring there? If someone who can deadlift and juggle cars punches a mugger in the mouth, is that not going to cause permanent damage? How many people (powered and otherwise) have Hulk, She-Hulk, Fairchild, et al, punched in the mouth over the years? That's not even getting into Wolverine and his claws or worse, Jean Grey/Psylocke/Emma Frost/Professor X and their ability to turn minds into mush. Is it better to turn someone into a vegetable rather than outright kill them?

I also take issue with extremely narrow definitions of 'hero'. It's as if using a deadly weapon (or powers) in the apprehension of criminals somehow makes a person lose their 'hero cred'. Police officers shoot suspects every day. Are they not heroes? Armed forces members shoot and kill "the enemy" every day. Guess they're not heroes either. A hero (by my estimation) is a person who does what is necessary to keep their people safe. If you shot a person breaking into your home, you'd still be a hero in my book even though, in theory, you probably could've stopped them with a broomstick or a baseball bat. None of the civilians saved care what means was used to extricate them from the situation they were in. To them, you're a hero because you were motivated to do something for someone else with little to no care for your own well-being.

I have no issues with additional options for powersets (like the bokken and escrima sticks suggested). Full blown powersets though, might be pushing it a bit. Has to be "sexy" I think and I don't think non-lethal sets fit that description (at least not as much as dual blades, dual pistols, demon summoning and the like).

Doesn't fit. I have one who solos well and happens to duo very nicely with a useless SR scrapper and Ice tanker with simply dispersion bubble (I only took powers that would also benefit me).

TA/energy seems the closest choice.

Because WoW is still kicking every other game's teeth in, financially? Whenever a discussion like this comes up, I notice people are quick to mention Blizzard's baby. You're doing your game a grave disservice by even mentioning it. Don't compare this game to that one. That game could lose three times this game's total subscribership and not even flinch.

CoX is a game. WoW is a phenomenon. It's not fair to this game to try to make any kind of comparison. Just pretend WoW doesn't exist.

Evilanna, was this your first visit to the MMORPG.com forums? Because you seem awfully sensitive when that thread was one of the tamest I've seen there. People expressing what they didn't/don't like about the game and then stating what they'd like to see changed in the next version does not equal 'bashing'.

A compelling case can be made for niche games to reinvent themselves more than once per decade of life. And this game would probably qualify as a niche game (since it's not in the firmly established, massively popular fantasy or sci-fi settings). Other games are taking what CoX used to be king of and beating Paragon over the head with better and more expansive versions of it. And as UnSub mentioned, new games are governed by new hardware capabilities while older games can't move forward because of folks with 5 year old rigs. Can't really make a leap forward with a noose around your neck.

I think the game has aged nicely but I wouldn't be averse to a sequel shipping in 2011/2012. That would give them enough time to get in front of the existing innovations and go a step further.

As a 5-year Virtuean, you should know better than to make a statement like the above. Here, lemme fix it for you:

It can be misleading to tell a person that Virtue is officially recognized as the roleplay server for those folks coming from games that actually have official roleplay servers.