To put it bluntly, yes, this game is about alts. With literally hundreds of AT combinations, if you're only playing one character, you are not experiencing the game.
One of the biggest things that make this game different from other games is THERE IS NO END GAME.
Virtue is the 'unofficial RP server', RP'ing anywhere else will be sporadic. Check the server forums for RP groups an your server.
As for altitis, yep, it's a common occurrence. There are still thing to do on your level 50, and there's really no way to have completed everything on one character.
Roll up a new character, swap villain/hero, choose another origin/AT, travel a different contact tree. Don't choose the ones you are used to, or that you are comfortable with. Move outside of the box.
And welcome to the game. 
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Okay that's fair, but without end game, you level up to 50 and then just start a new character and do it all over again? That seems kind of silly especially for an MMO, where the goal is to get your character to the level cap to become more powerful.
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Originally Posted by SunGryphon
To put it bluntly, yes, this game is about alts. With literally hundreds of AT combinations, if you're only playing one character, you are not experiencing the game.
One of the biggest things that make this game different from other games is THERE IS NO END GAME. |
Personally, I break out one of my 50s when I get bored with the grind and just wanna mess around.
I'll bring out a Kin and SB/heal/FS lowbies street-clearing in Atlas.
Bring out my Emp Defender and tag along behind a sewer team buffing and healing.
Bring out my Illusion/Stormie and join any group that will have me, regardless of level or task, just because it's the most fun AT I've ever played.
I think the new SSK system has really breathed new life into the post-50 "Endgame". Even if you're not earning XPs, it seems easier/more accepted now, to grab a 50 and go and do whatever you feel you might have missed, or whatever you enjoy most about the game.
Running lowbies, it's good to have a goal (leveling up, IO-ing, etc.). But sometimes you wanna take a true vacation from the grind... no schedules, no "gotta go Train real quick", no checking the Enhances, etc. etc. etc.
Sometimes it's fun to have a shower, shave, do the hair, get dressed all snappy-like, and join some friends for a social activity, & sometimes it's fun to skip the shower entirely, lie on the couch in your PJs, and watch TV / read / nap / eat / drink / smoke / pick your nose, all...freakin'... day.
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It's not silly when you consider how different each of the ATs play, as well as heroes vs villains, epic ATs vs villain epic ATs.|
Originally Posted by Kylazin
Okay that's fair, but without end game, you level up to 50 and then just start a new character and do it all over again? That seems kind of silly especially for an MMO, where the goal is to get your character to the level cap to become more powerful.
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Going through the game as a tank is not the same as going through the game as a stalker.
Hell, going through the game as a willpower tank is VASTLY different than going through it as a granite tank.
Thanks for the input guys. I suppose I'll formulate some sort of plan for what to do once we reach level-cap.
Every character you create is not going to follow the same linear progression. Once you are out of the starting levels then the story arcs and missions availably to each character is going to be different. It's not a relay race where every one of your characters are on a track, without any ability to choose a different path.
Start in Galaxy City instead of Atlas Park. Even if a contact does not cater to your origin, select them if you've not been through their content. What you want to experience in the game is up to you.
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You may realize that, in this game it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. Don't get hung up on getting to 50. There is plenty to do before you get there.| Thanks for the input guys. I suppose I'll formulate some sort of plan for what to do once we reach level-cap. |
It took me 9 months to get my first 50, and I wasn't in a hurry to get there. If you blow your way to 50, then you've already missed most of the game.
one thing the devs could add as sort of an "End Game" is if we could somehow gain more slots after 50 like in mabey some sort of SF make it as difficult as u like the prize of extra slots would be well worth it i think
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God no. Absolutely not.
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Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
one thing the devs could add as sort of an "End Game" is if we could somehow gain more slots after 50 like in mabey some sort of SF make it as difficult as u like the prize of extra slots would be well worth it i think
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This is a difficult question to answer since the answer varies between players.|
Originally Posted by Kylazin
I think the question is pretty strait forward. I'm a new-comer to CoX, but I have been playing MMO's since Ultima Online in 1997, I'm familiar with the way many of them operate and how end-game works. Spending time on the CoX forums though, it seems to me the end-game is all about creating a new toon with different powersets and going through it again.
So my question is this, is there any point to have a level 50? Or is it just to start a new character and do it all over again? |
Yes, in the original vision for the game, Jack Emmert did intend for players to level to 50, slot up, then have players delete their characters and start again. As reported to us players, Mr. Emmert fought against such in-game features as re-specification trials and additional character slots. In all fairness though, the climate that CoH was born into was heavily influenced by Everquest and Ultima Online. I can't find it now, but somebody had a great post about how a lot of early CoH was focused on street grinding and killing mobs for exp, rather than gaining exp as a mission reward.
In the original version of the game you were somewhat locked to your origin's storyline. The origin storyline was determined by following contacts that sold you're origin's enhancements. Thus, if you did want to experience all of the available story-arcs, you would need to roll at least one character for: science, technology, natural, magic, and mutation.
Some time ago the system was modified so that stores sold all of the enhancements a player would need, which meant that players were no longer tied to their origin's storyline. In the time since the game has consistently been modified to open up access to the game's world.
With that in mind, there is a lot of gameplay value in trying out new builds, new avatars, new enhancement paths and so on.
Also with that in mind, there is a chunk of content that can only really be done as you get into the final levels. The Shadow Shard Task Forces, Lady Grey Task Force, Statesman's Task Force, Lord Recluse Strike Force, and the Praetorian War. You'll quickly find that even at level 50, there's a large amount of game that your avatar simply hasn't done.
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| I understand that once you are 50, you can go back and complete missed missions and continue to tweak your build, but without some sort of end-game PvE (excuse the WoW reference: Raiding) and no real "gear" to collect, is there even a point to making it to end-game? It seems that all the threads I read people say "just make a new character" but it seems that each character is going to be playing through the same game. |
Yes, if you are not in the game for badge hunting or character tweaking, you'll rapidly loose interest in level 50 content.
No: Although this game doesn't have gear as you know from other MMO's, and hopefully never be implemented, it does have enhancements. You can continue tweaking out your character to be outrageously powerful and unique.
Which brings the not really. A lot of players are focused on Going Rogue, the next expansion to the game since it may change up a lot about how characters play. The indicated morality system could be very interesting to work with from an end-game content viewpoint.
There's also other improvements that have been made to the game engine. One of the examples, which again I can't find, involved a developer stating that the game could now do stuff like "Cut the Red or Blue Wire" and change the storyline you are on accordingly. This could have a huge impact on task force's like Lady Grey where the mission line-up could change depending on whether or not you rescue Penelope Yin or the Queens of Yap.
Something else to keep in mind is that the developers have gone back to experimenting with enemy fights that extend beyond the simple debuff / beat the everliving stuffings out of formula. The Dr. Khan TF / Barracuda SF are the first entries since... I think the Sewer and Eden trials, that require additional tactics or temp powers to complete.
With NCSoft pumping more money into Paragon Studios (and Paragon Studio's presumably making more money back if the reports about booster pack sales were correct), the studio does have the resources to create compelling end-game heroic, or dastardly, experiences.
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| For me, the end-game is really roleplaying with other people, but from what I've seen (Pinnacle red-side) there aren't many people on, and many times I have to translate to OOC to communicate with them. I'm playing this game with my girlfriend, who is completely new to MMOs, and she is still having a blast, but I want to know what we do once we reach level 50. I know that she isn't the type to want to just do it again with a new costume and some new powers. |
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maybe in the coming future the devs have said for going Rogue there will be a way to improve level 50's to make them even more powerful|
Originally Posted by Redd Rumm
one thing the devs could add as sort of an "End Game" is if we could somehow gain more slots after 50 like in mabey some sort of SF make it as difficult as u like the prize of extra slots would be well worth it i think
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Originally Posted by SunGryphon
God no. Absolutely not.
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je_saist, thank you for your extremely helpful post. I'm not in any rush to get to 50, and I consider myself to be a casual gamer. My girlfriend and I are both full-time students and we don't play too often. I always focus on the journey and not the destination, it just worries me that after we reach that end-point that the only thing to do is make a new character and do it again. Every other MMO I've played, most players almost exclusively use their high-level characters to progress in content the developers have created and made available for them. They continue to earn things for their characters to make them better and further them in progression.
I really do like the character creation in this game, and the fact that I can be whatever I want to be. It is really a very cool concept, and the developers have really done a great job on making it a reality. I am going to continue with my "main" (since I've already made 14 characters, none of them getting past level 12, because I come up with a different hero concept and start all over) to 50 and just go from there.
Just want to add something I forgot AE, Architecture Entertainment. This is a wonderful tool to make your own content and play others content. This has limitless content if you think about it and you can custom tailor your own challenges!
I wasn't a huge fan of AE when first released but alot of the problems have been addressed and I think the devs have AE going in the right direction.
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Originally Posted by Kylazin
je_saist, thank you for your extremely helpful post. I'm not in any rush to get to 50, and I consider myself to be a casual gamer. My girlfriend and I are both full-time students and we don't play too often. I always focus on the journey and not the destination, it just worries me that after we reach that end-point that the only thing to do is make a new character and do it again. Every other MMO I've played, most players almost exclusively use their high-level characters to progress in content the developers have created and made available for them. They continue to earn things for their characters to make them better and further them in progression.
I really do like the character creation in this game, and the fact that I can be whatever I want to be. It is really a very cool concept, and the developers have really done a great job on making it a reality. I am going to continue with my "main" (since I've already made 14 characters, none of them getting past level 12, because I come up with a different hero concept and start all over) to 50 and just go from there. |
After almost 5 years playing CoH, it never ceases to amaze me that this game, and this forum, continue to attract, and be populated by, such intelligent, mature, level-headed, interesting people (compared to some other MMOs I've sampled).
Welcome to the game, and the forums, Kylazin. You and the GF are very welcome here.
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Here's the article in question: http://www.boomtown.net/en_uk/articl...w.php?id=18195|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
maybe in the coming future the devs have said for going Rogue there will be a way to improve level 50's to make them even more powerful
Well then you may be dissappointed with Going Rogue. |
Here's what Posi says:
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| Matt Miller: I cant release much information yet. Hopefully the name alone, Going Rogue, provides a good foreshadowing to what the game will encompass. But among other things there will be new zones, the ability to switch a hero to a villain and vice versa, and difficult tasks for level 50 characters to do that make them more powerful. |
Basically, all Posi could be saying is that Going Rogue will have an event that could give a reward choice of a purple recipe. I'd hesitate to read anything else out of the statement until after HeroCon.
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There's still a lot to do with a 50, never fear. The xp curve smoothing generally means there's still a lot of things you never got a chance to do while leveling. While you could choose to do them on a new alt, you can just as easily choose to use your 50.|
Originally Posted by Kylazin
je_saist, thank you for your extremely helpful post. I'm not in any rush to get to 50, and I consider myself to be a casual gamer. My girlfriend and I are both full-time students and we don't play too often. I always focus on the journey and not the destination, it just worries me that after we reach that end-point that the only thing to do is make a new character and do it again. Every other MMO I've played, most players almost exclusively use their high-level characters to progress in content the developers have created and made available for them. They continue to earn things for their characters to make them better and further them in progression.
I really do like the character creation in this game, and the fact that I can be whatever I want to be. It is really a very cool concept, and the developers have really done a great job on making it a reality. I am going to continue with my "main" (since I've already made 14 characters, none of them getting past level 12, because I come up with a different hero concept and start all over) to 50 and just go from there. |
My advice to you is to "do what you want" The new rules for being an exemplar make it even easier to level down and still feel powerful, and have a good time even without the entire array of your powers. While you're doing that you can still earn drops and cash to use to improve your character.
I spend a mix of my time on characters of all levels. Some nights I take a lowbie, some nights I take a 50. The beauty of it is, you get choices. Don't think for a moment having your 50 will somehow limit your options.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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To be honest, that's only the goal for *some* MMOs. Yes, it's a pretty common goal, but I wouldn't say it's required of the genre. (It's the easiest way to keep people playing - and paying - so many companies go that way. The other really common method is making getting to the cap a nigh-infinite grind - see Asian MMOs in particular for that one.)
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Originally Posted by Kylazin
That seems kind of silly especially for an MMO, where the goal is to get your character to the level cap to become more powerful.
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The only other alternative could be dismissed just as offhandedly: "You mean the goal to hitting 50 is to get on an endless treadmill of acquiring raid gear?"|
Originally Posted by Kylazin
Okay that's fair, but without end game, you level up to 50 and then just start a new character and do it all over again? That seems kind of silly especially for an MMO, where the goal is to get your character to the level cap to become more powerful.
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Either way, 50 is either the end or no goal at all. The Devs just picked one of those two.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
You can also Purple out your 50, and have an easeir time with raids, late-level TFs, and AE arcs. Go Badging. PvP is also an option.
There's no "Level 50's only" exclusive content that signals "Game over" or "End of story". It would be counter-intuitive with the Devs desire to let people play with friends of any level (except in the most extreme circumstances) and to allow your character to have an active part in the universe.
I mean, think of it this way: Lots of MMOs have an "end-game". You do it. Then what, cancel your subscription? No, you keep playing (in theory). That doesn't sound like an "end game" to me.
But, yes, altitis is key. Because playing an Empath defender is NOTHING like playing Forcefields which is NOTHING like Trick Arrow which is NOTHING like Dark Miasma which is NOTHING like Sonic which is NOTHING like Storm which is... well, you get the point. And that's only SOME of the Primary powersets within ONE AT out of 14 available! The possibilities are near endless!
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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This game is about whatever you want it to be about. What does "end game content" mean in a game that has no end?|
Originally Posted by Kylazin
Okay that's fair, but without end game, you level up to 50 and then just start a new character and do it all over again? That seems kind of silly especially for an MMO, where the goal is to get your character to the level cap to become more powerful.
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If you don't find enough to do on a level 50, make an alt. If you do, play your level 50. For me, the game is about trying new things some of the time and playing on awesome teams with my friends the rest of the time. I have 7 level 50 characters, all different. That was great for the first part, trying new things. But it's also great for the second part, playing with friends. Having so many high level characters means I nearly always have something that goes well with the team and brings something to the table. I like to do Task Forces a lot and there's no TF I can't bring a level 50 on.
If we're doing Synapse, I know my Ice/Kin Controller is a great match because I can hit everyone with Speed Boost when they may have a barely slotted Stamina and the bad guys are endurance drainers. If we do Hess or Katie Hannon, I can bring my Scrapper because she has them both unlocked. My Controller has Katie unlocked and is also great there because she has several KB protection IOs and can use Increase Density on the squishies to keep them from getting slammed to the ground so often. Etc etc.
Other people play for years and have NO level 50s because the like alts so much.
That's the reason I like this game so much. We're not forced into loot, gear, and leveling to FINALLY get to do something different/neat. You can drink the Purple Enhancement Kool Aid or pass it up. You can run missions all day or spend a day writing a mission. The game is whatever you make it.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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And really, I kind of don't appreciate it when the level cap keeps getting pushed out and pushed out. I have enough moving targets to shoot for at work; I don't need someone to keep changing the rules in my game, too. "Thought you had a plan, you were on top, had it all figured out? Think again! Now you're small and weak and have to do it again!" I don't mind starting over on a new character; I expect that and enjoy it. I don't like it when my accomplishments on an old character suddenly get downgraded and I have to climb back up to the top.
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Originally Posted by Kiralyn
To be honest, (getting to the level cap to be more powerful is) only the goal for *some* MMOs. Yes, it's a pretty common goal, but I wouldn't say it's required of the genre. (It's the easiest way to keep people playing - and paying - so many companies go that way. The other really common method is making getting to the cap a nigh-infinite grind - see Asian MMOs in particular for that one.)
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~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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Really? Is EVE an MMO? What's the level cap there? What? You say it's a different game? Why yes, yes it is. Just like this game is different from what you might be used to. It's no more 'silly' to not design a static 'end game' in an MMO than it is to treat every MMO like it's the exact same thing as every other MMO.|
Originally Posted by Kylazin
That seems kind of silly especially for an MMO, where the goal is to get your character to the level cap to become more powerful.
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Originally Posted by Kylazin
Every other MMO I've played, most players almost exclusively use their high-level characters to progress in content the developers have created and made available for them.
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Anyway, this is just to illustrate that even your experiences in 'every other MMO' you've played can differ from others. Likewise, different MMOs have different styles and focuses. In every MMO I'm familiar with, there are people who have no problem playing one character to the exclusion of all else. Then there are folks who prefer to have the versatility that comes with experience playing several classes in challenging content. (On a side note, I always find it odd that it's always the latter group who are asked to 'log in your X, I need help with Y' by the former group) The same concept holds true here.
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Originally Posted by MissInformed
And really, I kind of don't appreciate it when the level cap keeps getting pushed out and pushed out. I have enough moving targets to shoot for at work; I don't need someone to keep changing the rules in my game, too. "Thought you had a plan, you were on top, had it all figured out? Think again! Now you're small and weak and have to do it again!" I don't mind starting over on a new character; I expect that and enjoy it. I don't like it when my accomplishments on an old character suddenly get downgraded and I have to climb back up to the top.
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@Remianen / @Remianen Too
Sig by RPVisions
Although I have a lot of alts, I still go back and play my 50s, respec them to make them better, add a second build, etc. They're a lot more powerful and they struggle a lot less than lower-level characters, so it's fun to change things around and be super-powerful some of the time.
I've never really rushed any character to 50, because there isn't any point. There are some that I really struggled with (my Empathy defender was probably the least interesting).
The only valid reason to hurry to 50 is if you're dead set on creating one of the epic archetypes. And I've got to admit I find the epics less interesting than the regular ATs.
Otherwise rushing a character to level 50 is like rushing to get to your 50th birthday.
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Eh? I think most other MMOs are silly because they can't satisfy my Altitis. Before I16 I had one toon of each primary/secondary combination blueside and was working on redside. |
Originally Posted by Kylazin
Okay that's fair, but without end game, you level up to 50 and then just start a new character and do it all over again? That seems kind of silly especially for an MMO, where the goal is to get your character to the level cap to become more powerful.
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With 450 alts and counting, I love the focus on alts here :-) (12 50s so far)
I want to log in and think "ok, who do I feel like playing today?" and constantly shift my focus
I think the question is pretty strait forward. I'm a new-comer to CoX, but I have been playing MMO's since Ultima Online in 1997, I'm familiar with the way many of them operate and how end-game works. Spending time on the CoX forums though, it seems to me the end-game is all about creating a new toon with different powersets and going through it again.
So my question is this, is there any point to have a level 50? Or is it just to start a new character and do it all over again? I understand that once you are 50, you can go back and complete missed missions and continue to tweak your build, but without some sort of end-game PvE (excuse the WoW reference: Raiding) and no real "gear" to collect, is there even a point to making it to end-game? It seems that all the threads I read people say "just make a new character" but it seems that each character is going to be playing through the same game.
For me, the end-game is really roleplaying with other people, but from what I've seen (Pinnacle red-side) there aren't many people on, and many times I have to translate to OOC to communicate with them. I'm playing this game with my girlfriend, who is completely new to MMOs, and she is still having a blast, but I want to know what we do once we reach level 50. I know that she isn't the type to want to just do it again with a new costume and some new powers.
This isn't a criticism of the content in this game, I do like many aspects of this game, but an actual question as to what end-game is truly like in CoX.
Thanks for reading.
-KZ