PC_guy

i don't think thats necessarily true. i think its apparent that everyone in that thread wants a not i13 style of pvp more than a pre i13 style of pvp.

it wasn't all that great. yea it was better than now, by alot, but it still had could use a fair amount of toying with

perhaps, i've got afew friends that play guild wars and from what they've told me, it's a very pvp oriented game that can be pretty fun. I don't think NCsoft has some big master secret plot to push all pvpers towards those games, I think it's just more localized in that the people a PS F***ed this thing up and have no idea how to fix it and have had success in the past ignoring those types of issues instead of fixing them.

fixt

procs

he's a warm body and useless on a team


as for my WS, it does...okay. i've only taken him on lambda and did fine on most of it. but its all human so the marauder fight was pretty bad. low DPS + no bodies around meant i was pretty much useless during that fight.

I wouldn't put it past them. I could still see the devs implement a massive DR-esque mechanic and just leave incarnate abilities exempt.

i don't think you can do this though. because if you do it to just blasters, then you'd get an outcry from corrupters and defenders that theirs doesn't. I think the devs are in a situation were if they do do(heh) something like this, i'd be an all or nothing thing. which would ultimatley decrease the value of the buff for blasters in the first place.

in all likelyhood i'm more inclined to think that we'd see a nerf to force manipulators before a buff to blasters.

it's not kb it's their broken damage

It's stupid broken in pvp. Sharks do like 300 damage from range and crit. That's basically all you have to have to play a stalker in pvp anymore

BU>sharks>placate>sharks>repeat

The kb mag isn't high enough to really do anything. Most builds are running with 40 kb points. At most it'll just show who hasn't slotted for kb. But you want it for the damage

nitpick i suppose but the entire mac client wasn't down. i'm pretty sure it was just ATI based macs. i'm also on a mac(ironic i know) and i've played some basically every day.

reading comprehension helps

Also, in no place in my post did i insult you and defend the devs. as a matter of fact I took a jab at the devs lack of ability to make hard content.

because taking a toon from 1-50 requires much less time and attention.

it's really not that difficult, if you wanna do it, then do it. if you find yourself not playing your 50s then don't do it.
but not doing it because it's a grind is complete and utter stupidity since the majority of things in this game(and for that matter MMOs) are grinds. they're only bad grinds if you allow them to be. the trials aren't by any stretch of the imagination hard(Its gotten to the point were I honestly can't decide if the devs can't make hard content or have their hands tied in doing so) and they'll only get easier with time. the time sink is very very low when you compare it to any other grind it game.

the community doesn't keep people from pvping. coh pvp keeps people from pvping

is it really that hard of a concept to grasp that any player that is remotely interested in pvp wants the system TO MAKE SENSE.

there are plenty of leagues and boot camps going on to enocurage pvp. its not doing anything because it's broken. again THERE IS NOTHING THE PLAYERBASE CAN DO ANYMORE. it is entirely in the hands of the devs.

lolwut? its not like the data changed. it's not like the dev's have made any changes to pvp. the things that were broken and need fixing 3 years ago are still broken.


it's amazing how little you know about this. if you go look in the i20 feedback section RIGHT NOW dawun has an entire thread about data and feedback on the incarnate powers in pvp with list of feedback and things that need to be fixed. it won't happen because it is entirely up to the devs. the whining crowd has absolutely nothing to do with it.

and for that matter, there are multiple running sticky threads with new bugs for stuff that has been running since i13 with stuff, they're sticky'd at the top of the pvp section if you wanna look at them. you won't because you have a tendency to just spout stuff off without looking at what has actually happened but they're still there.

for instance, KM was added afew issues ago and there are multiple posts of data on it in those sticky's because the t9 for scrappers is incredibly broken.

again its really amazing how little you know about this. there is data. its be compiled and added to since i13. THE DEVS WON'T LOOK AT IT. or if they do they disregard it. which i guess isn't that hard to do since you seem to do it pretty well.

and people ask for i12 back because in the mind of the community, it's the easiest solution to the problem of pvp. a reversion would be easier than a complete overhaul.

also, you can't get people intersted in pvp. because the system is broken. people have tried. I personally have tried 3 times to get different things going. people don't want to do it because of the i13 system.

okay jackwagon, lets follow that logic abit shall we?

you want a more populated pvp component. How, prey tell, do you expect a game with a dev team that hasn't given any support for pvp in the past and drove off the pvp community, to increase population when the system is broken and it is blatantly obvious to everyone that goes into pvp, whether they hear the wah! or not.

your way to fix pvp is to increase population in a broken system with people who don't want to pvp in the first place i.e. pver's. yup, sounds like a winner to me.

theres only one way to increase pvp population, fix the GD system and give it some support.

there's a massive disconnect in your logic between ED and those changes and the pvp changes. the most obvious being that IOs and Pre ED toons are very comparable in terms of power except IOs are more complex and give a more difficult element to the game. IO's fixed the problems that ED created. they also went and continued to fix bugs and provide support for the system and held up their end of the bargain of "yea this is necessary and it sucks, but we'll ultimately fix it for the better" and they did. also, ED didn't kill the pve community. was there a massive amount of people that left? yea sure but it didn't do to the pve community what i13 did to the pvp community. the game was still playable post ED, it was more difficult and wasn't so cookie cutter fire tank emp blaster team beats everything, but it didn't kill pve.

if the devs had put in ED and the GDN's and never did anything with it after that then you might have a point.

they weren't percieve betrayals. they were outright betrayals. they promised us something, in writing, multiple times, and have yet to deliver.

However, it does mean a great deal even if you don't think it does. it shows that the devs openly don't care anything for the player base and have no respect for them, which is a very very large obstacle to overcome if you're trying to accomplish change for said community.

alot of people joke about "oh yea the devs hate X" this is a rare case were the devs, do in fact, hate pvp.

again, since you clearly don't know what you're talking about, lighthouse was the community rep that came out and said to the pvper's that all the changes were not made for pvper's. he wasn't rubbing it in our face, he was doing us a favor by telling us straight up what the bigger dev team wasn't. it was a very commendable act. he was fired soon after, wonder why?


do you not see the horrible catch22 that the devs have put pvp in? are you serously that blind?

you aren't going to attract any new players because the system is incredibly broken with countless bugs that haven't/aren't going to get fixed. attracting new pvper's from other games is out the window since every other game on out now has pvp that works better than coh and attracting pver's to pvp is a dumb decision. the obvious solution being to fix the system, this time listening to pvp player feedback and not implementing an issue half cocked.

yet, you can't do that because you can't get enough players to participate in the current broken system (go figure)

people have tried to increase participation with leagues, bootcamps, ect. but in the end, the system is too broken and not deep enough to maintain any playerbase. prei13 was somewhat similar and the i13 changes SHOULD have addressed this. instead that just turned a scratch into much larger wound.
so then i13...

except most of the Wah! now is coming from pver's/ the new people you're trying to get to pvp who go into the system, recognize the obvious brokenness of it, and come to the same conclusion that the old pvp community came to back during implementation.

that'd be nice if the system allowed for that to happen. it doesn't. at all.

except they kinda already did that. during beta as a matter of fact. yet nothing was changed. there are multiple threads with large amounts of data that supports changes yet here we sit 3 years latter, in the same sinking ship.

you're right that complaining hasn't done any good ove the past 3 years, but its not that it isn't supported whinning, its that the cries fall on deaf ears. there is literally nothing more the playerbase can do to warrent changes, it is entirely up to the dev team to do something, and it has been for a few years now, they haven't.

the massive spike downward was rule changes. but im sure there are some that left for those other reasons as well.

then you're an idiot. I can honestly count the number of people who like i13 pvp on one hand. was prei13 perfect? of course not. it had its problems and the decision to do something about pvp in i13 was needed. the fact that it wasn't for the pvper's, said by lighthouse, was the absolute worst thing they could have done. post i13 is even more buggy, has less diversity, and the only amount of fun to be had is when you can go into arena and turn most of the changes off.

not really. maybe for pve but overall they've had little effect on pvp

this would be true if pvp IOs were worth a damn in pvp. most pvpers don't use any pvp ios because most of the bonuses are the kind that get DR'd down to nothing and aren't worth their money. the only pvp IOs that pvper's use are damage procs, some glad javs, and pana's. and the last two are basically used because they give a range bonus.



this basically says that you have no idea what you're talking about.

same thing with this statement. the mez change didn't open up the game to additional AT's. it just took insp management out of the game. the fact that a mind dom in domination can put a hold on you for anywhere from 6-8 seconds and you can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT is complete and utter crap. any effectiveness this change had was taken out when they took out toggle dropping on mezzing.



well there haven't been any changes in the last 3 years and the last one we said was DOOOOOM!!!!! was, in fact, doom so....


they were not good changes. taking buffing out of the game was not a good change. making mez protection useless was not a good change. making it so every build is basically the same cookie cutter thing and that the entire gameplay experience is a glorified rock paper scissors thing was not a good change. making is so that i slow myself more by activating a power than if someone uses a slow power on me was not a good change. changing how damage is done to make flurry and jump kick harder hitting powers than some t9's was not a good change. not fixing any of the bugs that have been in game since the implementation of i13 and leaving it in the same broken state was not a good change.

No, those that'd wah'd at the time, left.

a 4 year old can make an effort to eat his vegetables, that doesn't mean he enjoy's it. the only enjoyable thing about pvp is even with all the restrictions it is still more difficult and challenging than anything in the pve game.

but the statement that complaining about a change that is universally and by majority hated in order to get it changed doesn't make any sense to me. if we didn't, we'd still be dealing with 100 mag hold procetion mito's on hamis and fire wouldn't have gotten the buff it got afew issues ago.

and see this is really what i have never understood about the i13 changes. i can understand the idea of fixing pvp to bring in more people. i can understand the mentaility of catering to a group you're trying to encourage pvp within (i don't agree with doing it but i understand why). what i don't understand is if the devs were trying to increase popularity within a group that doesn't pvp i.e. pver's or people that casually pvp, then why wouldn't you put something in game letting the player know, not only that the game mechanics are different but how they're different. something to let new players know without them having to come to the forums and more or less require you to do research before entering a zone. you would think that would be a major part of massive system overhaul.

its not that the roles are missing, its that they're extremely limited. there are only a handful of combinations that have the ability to do a decent amount of damage which was, ironically, the opposite goal of i13. pre i12 wasn't very diverse, but it is way more diverse than it is now in its roles.

brute's aren't useless due to fury and run and gun tactics(albeit that doesn't help but thats not the main reason. defenders still have *some* use but not much) they're useless because their main job in pvp, taunting, can be done much better by a tank. it's got less HP therefore has less ability to handle a spike, and the higher damage mod isn't enough to make them viable. they're basically a nerfed scrapper with the inability to spike.

also warshades, and to some degree defenders(since their debuffs aren't unresisted anymore and corrs do more damage) are useless. and in the current AT's that are still some what worth a damn, each AT has a pleathora of builds that are just as useless as those ATs. any blaster primary except sonic fire and psi and any secondary other than energy or MM. most of the buffing sets for corr secondaries and defender primaries buffs are useless. for instance the best and basically only tool an FF defender has now is force bolt. defense based sets are so sub par to resistance or heal sets that you're gimping yourself if you go into a zone with one (the exception being stalkers because they work differently but for things like VEATs and defense based scraps tanks and brutes, you're screwed)

ok. lets do that. i'm a new player and decided to roll force field as my first toon. I get curious, go into zone, and notice my buffs aren't doing any good, my cages don't work, and i'm still getting held despite having a mez bubble. sometime later i level up an ill/rad and notice after sometime that my heals are for some reason, doing less AND slowing me down to get ganked by the exorbitant amount of stalkers and kin scraps roaming around. i also notice that i'm getting knocked around like crazy despite having kb ios and acrobatics.

and most imporantly, I as a new player has absolutely no idea why any of this is happening since there is no warning or pop up message or "lolbtw" message telling me all of this stupid S**t has been put on my toons (and there's no way of knowing without coming and checking the boards).

yup, sounds like fun to me.


semi true. it really depends on what you're doing. obviously the point putting that much inf into a toon is to make it a relevant threat and that really doesn't matter in zone anymore since the only thing that decides who wins is the numbers on either side. the only time i've ever been in a pvp zone and it was even on both sides was about a year and a half ago were everyone in zone was part of an sg vs. sg event and we tinker'd with the sides when it got uneven(surprisingly, zone pvp's level of fun goes through the roof when the sides are even, it just never ever ever happens).

however, if you're doing something were the numbers are more controlled i.e. 1v1s-8v8s it's alot harder to be competitive on something that doesn't have a large sum pumped into it. but silver age's post had alot of correct parts, one being that skill doesn't matter in pvp anymore, how good you are depends on what you roll and how much you pump into it.

but it is true that the base survivability/power of some sets is so much higher than other sets that you don't *have* to put massive amounts of inf into a toon, but there are some that you do have to put in a considerable amount to be relevant. for example, i could put 500 mil into a regin and be 10 times more survivable than someone who put billions upon billions into an SR build.


OP: there's 4 tier's of pvp. there's taunters, disruption, buffers and damage. if you want to taunt, fire tanks are the way to go(broots are pointless) disruption has alot more options, anything that has alot of knockback so like FF, grav, earth if you know what you're doing, ill has some nice disrution and secondary's that can debuff specifically -res debuffs -movement debuffs (not to be confused with slows since those are pointless, these are your -jump, -fly ect.) therm is good example since it has a nice debuff in heat exhaustion. buffers are very limited to emp's and pains. and damage falls under psy/fire blasters kin/fire scraps mind/fire doms and stalkers. but if you're going to zone you're better off going with something that can take a spike so a tank or regin. it really is ridiculous the level of survivabilty a regin has due to internal heals, hiber or shadow meld/ phase and mog. unless you glitch/lag/brainfart/something, you'll never ever ever die.