Memphis_Bill

Command-click, I believe. Though unless you're running a much older Mac, yeah, you *should* have a right click. (Actually, a mac that old won't run COH... *pretty* sure all Intel macs have two button mice, Magic Mice or the like.) It may not be assigned by default in COH, though - one of the regular Mac users would have to answer that.

Really? Have you run on said teams?

I have. We were certainly not "screwed as a team." Nowhere even close.

See, that's one of the things with these arguments (in the meaning of the customer of the argument clinic, not the arguer, if you know what I mean. ) It seems that so many of them concentrate *only* on the one powerset as opposed to the complete character - and I'm not really looking at "And you can get power pools to do XYZ," just primaries and secondaries.

It doesn't compensate, as you say - but it *can't be ignored,* and in quite a few of these arguments it certainly seems to be.

For instance, "Why bring another force fielder?" (or, to quote W_V's statement, ", a cold would put you over the soft cap and bring debuffs." - yeah, well, so does the defender's primary....)

Well, argument 1 is that they're protecting each other.
Two? They're putting you past the softcap, yes, but that means less degradation against tougher enemies and/or wiggle room vs debuffs.
And argument 3 is that they're doing different things with whatever paired set they have. FF/Sonic Defender and Earth/FF controller - Earth providing control and -def, Sonic providing -res and more damage than the controller.

You don't *just* bring a force fielder, you bring a complete character. (Which is part of what I find just... amazing as a disconnect on the boards - on the one hand, taking a powerset in isolation, on the other a solid stance that statements like "Stop blasting and just heal!" are so *wrong.*)

Now, this also isn't discounting that some combinations - well, stink on ice. And yes, having run it to 50, I put ill/sonic in there. I hated that character by the time I was done - only the epic pools made it worth playing, IMHO. (Of course, part of that is the dislike of Illusion, too. Only set I can grudgingly say I can deal with pairing it with is TA.)

Also,
and ...
I'll point out one of the loading screen tips - some power sets are designed to perform better in a team setting. There's nothing *wrong* with that. It's not a bad design philosophy. (And with dual builds, it opens up a lot of possibility on a solo build.) But I think, again, they're seen as "underperforming" because they're being looked at in isolation.

It's when the set underperforms in *all* situations that it has to be looked at on its own - thus giving us things like Electric Armor and Energy Aura getting heals added in. I don't think, for the sake of this discussion, that FF or Sonic are in anywhere near the same situation to be seen as "underperforming" or "problematic."

Kind of see where I'm coming from? (It's almost a relief talking about Peacebringers and Warshades - there's no "possible mix of powersets," only a choice of forms - or not - and powers.)

Edit:

I should also add (@W_V) that I have no issue with the idea of tweaking numbers or adding debuffs to the sets, any more than I did with turning Conserve Power to Energize. As long as it's done thoughtfully (versus some of the "I don't use/like it, so obviously nobody does, so just outright replace X power with one that makes spaghetti!" or whatever.) Which at brief glance yours appear to be - but I don't chase numbers, typically. (saying that while looking at my avatar....)

Plus, to answer a question:
I'm going to mention the FF tangent above. What's the benefit of the second FFer? Well, aside from (as mentioned above) giving the first one defense, it spreads out Dispersion Bubble (and the associated mez protection.) I... don't consistently see full teams actually stick together. (A team of up to 4, to me, is just right.) Melee gravitates one way, support/range stays back. It adds some flexibility and more room for error. And, as FF, it can provide benefit - at a lesser level, certainly - without the user paying attention to their primary much (assuming a defender, as above.)

As far as the general case? I cannot give a definite answer to "If they ignored their blasts and only buffed." Are we looking at a team taking a great deal of damage with that emp? In that case, heal, fort up when available, watch for anyone needing CM, and I can understand not using their blasts. Are we talking about a team that's steamrolling yet that emp is just putting the tank on follow and "rockin' the aura?" Well... while possibly not a *detriment* to the team, they're not being a benefit, certainly. It *really* depends on the character and the situation - and sometimes that can be fixed with some gently worded slotting suggestions in a tell. (Rad defender not blasting because of END problems with their toggles, for instance.)

And as far as feeling like you're "not doing for the team the way you should," as long as you're reasonably active and trying... who cares? You, obviously, and I think it's a good attitude to have, to a point - but you also have to remember we're playing COH, here, not Left4Dead. There's not a screen at the end saying "Teammates healed - William_Valance, 3! Enemies killed... ooh, you're second last with 31 out of 5000!" There are *very* few times I've ever felt like I wasn't contributing to a team - and the case is usually something like "The lone brute on a team with five masterminds... in a set of council caves, because I can't get past the damn pets!"

... you say to a person who mostly plays squishies. I've gone through full trays of breakfrees in malta missions. >.<

Do they use their secondary (or, in the case of a controller, primary?)

If so, they're still teammates. If not, they're leeches regardless.

You're ignoring primary (or, again, controller=secondary) again. Especially post-32, where the controller can use their pet(s) as targets for a debuff, to shield them, etc. (Same with FF, though yes, there's less benefit.)

See Sonic Dispersion, Clarity. And Sonic Dispersion works on *me.* Thermal offers me nothing for mez protection.
... but much later in the set.

Sonic, I'm debuffing from level 1. Thermal, I have to hit 38 before I'm affecting resistance (letting me hit harder,) and 35 before I have any debuffs at all. My solo build for my Dark/Thermal? One power from Thermal for most of her "career."

Thermal gets a power that does -dmg, -end, -recovery -regen, then an AOE that does -def and -res. Sonic, meanwhile, gets powers that give you a +res (and more for teammates) - so, functionally, -dmg for the target. Nothing for end or recovery, but given you're hitting more with several -res effects, you *can* look at it as diminishing the value of their regen. And liquefy adds a -def to the mix. (Plus -tohit, knockdown and hold.) So, frankly, it doesn't really look like Thermal's doing all that much more debuffing. It debuffs one or two different areas, but not anywhere near as early or consistently as sonic does.

Honestly - and this is a general statement - it feels like so many people just want to homogenize everything with threads like this. Give us all sets that are 99% the same in values and effects, just with different effects. Blah. Boring.

Eh, I think that'd be too much. One per three, perhaps. Mix in with events or whatnot (like the steel canyon fires) or something else specific and thematic to the zone.

Don't forget some of the others -

I've done (rough) timings, because of arguments like this, of knockdown, knockback and the like.

Knockdown:
About 2 seconds before the mob's back up.
Mob comes BACK up where they were - which, with many of these powers, is still melee range, meaning I'm in danger of most mobs most damaging attacks still (melee attacks.)

Knockup:
Typically Air Superiority, about 3 seconds.
Same issue with KD.

KnockBack - flat surface
Typically 5-6 seconds that the mob *can't do anything.* Plus, when they get up, they're no longer in melee range and have to use (often weaker, if they have both melee and ranged attacks) ranged attacks.

Knockback - incline
6 seconds to "infinity" (mob killed while on incline.)
Inclines are NOT hard to find - and they don't even have to be that big. The little ramps on Arachnos ramps (not the tall, empty room, I mean the little ones under the platforms in corner rooms, for instance - about character height) gave me a good ten seconds to finish off a mob where they couldn't fire back, go into hide, placate me, smoke grenade the team heal themselves or others...

And dont' forget not-so-rare mobs like Energy-based PPs or Fake Nemesis. The longer they're down (or flying back from knockback,) the longer they're prevented from firing off their PFF or MOG (for instance) and *prolonging* the fight. And of course they're *still* taking damage from the person knocking them back (and probably others.)

That is the fault of the *player,* not of knockback. The *player* has to know when to do so. The *player* has to adjust their position for AOE knockback. Nobody complained when, for instance, the Lich (think it was) MM pet's torrent was turned to knock*down*... because the Lich can't use it intelligently. A player, supposedly, has a brain and can figure out when and when not to use it. You're blaming the car for running through a crowded crosswalk when you should be looking at the driver.

/this.

And if you do so, mention if there's a specific goal you're going after. (And if you have a "budget" - something that will hit whatever goal you want, but runs 10 billion at market prices, is rather.... yeah...)

The fact I seem to be stuck with eternally reading that as "dance dance revolution" makes that a very amusing request.

*hasten fires off*
*character starts dancing wildly*

Other character, NPCs: "Buh?"

To get one from PVP, you have to find someone to PVP against.

Or have a second account.

Both also require a lot of time (or very good luck.)

It's probably faster to hand-craft hero merits out of twine and bits of colored paper.

And this seems to be, honestly, a baseline some people (and I'm not saying "some people" and glancing sideways at any poster, just a general statement) seem to refuse to take, which makes some conversations rather frustrating.

For instance, hearing people complain about a powerset being "too slow." Well, slow compared to what, and what are the tradeoffs that make it "slow?" Not everything's going to be a brute, scrapper or tank - and not everything should be.

I happen to really like control sets. Controllers *and* doms. I know I'm not finishing a full (say) battle maiden map when it comes up in 5 minutes at +4X8, but - that's not my job. I'm making them attack each other. Or I'm paying for that lesser damage by being as close to perfectly safe as I can be while going through that map.

Or there'll be posts saying, "Why bother with a Defender, when a Blaster can tear through this with much more damage?" OK. Yeah, that's what a blaster does. Meanwhile, if I feel like it, I can debuff those targets and /em robotdance in the middle of them without getting hit.

There is no AT that is incapable of soloing, even on TOs (or, as we're commonly told, SOs, which the game is balanced around.) No powerset falls in that category. Some may not "click" with some people - individual powers *or* powersets - but we do have a baseline guarantee that everyone can, if they choose, solo 1-50. It just may not be at the speed they want. In which case... reroll. *shrug*

Besides, if they move that baseline - again, say, damage, since that seems popular - all that'll happen is the enemies will be changed to compensate. We'd end up at pretty much the same spot... if not worse off when things aren't rebalanced properly.

(The flip side, of course, being another suggestion that comes up of "just let us freeform select powers" - that having been done and found (a) impossible to balance and/because (b) players could too easily either create tankmages or be completely useless - as in zero attacks.

Nah, what makes it a waste of time is that he apparently can't see the area between the extremes - "Get some experience with the aircraft" vs "Spend 10 years as an aviation tech," or, more on topic, "Get rid of the cottage rule" (meaning, bluntly, ANY form of thought into the powers, balancing, consistency and the like) and "Must not even change the spelling of a power or the whips and hot coals come out." Or "Just throw everything away, it'll be OK."

Which is illustrated in his other comment, a ways back:
... which apparently ignores what makes an EAT an "E"AT (the bit about being tied to the lore, etc.) and all the... other... bane spider NPCs in the isles they were based on.

(And I'll be honest - I enjoy playing my stalkers *more* than playing my bane - to the point my bane's second build turned into a huntsman instead. That's "fixed" in his opinion? Plus, looking around, I see far more post-24 Huntsmen and Crabs than I do Banes.)

But the thread in general, yes, is a waste of time.

... you mean like pilot training, and training in their specific aircraft's systems and the like?

Yeah. Silly requirement for the air force to have.

Now reply in context.

What you replied to was in turn a reply to the suggestion that the smaller servers are somehow having problems because, essentially, they're not freedumb. Not that the game's population as a whole should never rise.