Yes, GMs are ... mostly irrelevant today, other than a few redside (and Sally, who doesn't "really" count as one) that are required for contact unlocks or accolades.
The problem with badges is that there's this big rush for the first month or so while the badgers go after them - then they're left alone, for the most part.
The main problem with GMs is that the reward for *fighting* them just doesn't really excite anyone. They used to give decent XP and be an interesting fight. Now? 2 reward merits (eh) and a piddly amount of XP - less, in many cases, than a boss fight, and certainly less than the newspaper mission you could have done in the same time.
I agree they need a review and "something new," and I've proposed a few myself. Generally, though, I tend to want to see them turned more into - well, *events* instead of the scenery they are now.
Doesn't bother me that there's no rolling kill-teams. Last time I wanted some badges, I put together a team to go hunt them, and within the space of two hours had a rolling group that had tracked down and defeated every single open-spawn GM on Blueside and was about to go Red before the server shut down.
You can still go get your GMs. You just need patience, and a sense of salesmanship for your recruiting.
Still all for extras to make GM combat a thing people WANT to do, but the problem is not as distinct as you imagine.
Just have them drop:
1) Rare Salvage (100% chance);
2) Rare Invention recipe (50% chance);
3) Two Incarnate shards.
And make an accolade power for defeating all GMs of a side. A good one too, like passive HP or Defense or something.
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This part I really love. In that other super hero game when you reach monster island crisis at the very end you take this serum and it grows you the size of the giant monster that's rampaging there and fight him one on one mono eh mono. It was so cool and just had that wow factor the first time it happened I would love to see something similar here.
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Originally Posted by jackattack
5. Create new ways to fight GMs, which require the (first) badge to access. Create instanced missions where heroes can control a giant robot (or grow to giant size themselves) to fight GMs one on one, or where teams can fight GMs in new/destructible environments, or (at the end of an arc?) where everyone on a team controls a giant robot (or grows to giant size) and fights several monsters at once.
Thoughts? |
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While I'd be quite happy with new badges and accolades (I enjoy GM PUGs), this list, especially the last item, is what would attract more player interest these days.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Just have them drop:
1) Rare Salvage (100% chance); 2) Rare Invention recipe (50% chance); 3) Two Incarnate shards. |
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I like the idea of giving better rewards and other bonuses. Though the incarnate may be a bit much as then lower lvl people may not get to fight as there will be teams of pure 50s.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Just have them drop:
1) Rare Salvage (100% chance); 2) Rare Invention recipe (50% chance); 3) Two Incarnate shards. And make an accolade power for defeating all GMs of a side. A good one too, like passive HP or Defense or something. |
But I agree with the better rewards and the accolade.
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Agree. But an accolade would be short lived like the badges, your 3 options should be enough |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Just have them drop:
1) Rare Salvage (100% chance); 2) Rare Invention recipe (50% chance); 3) Two Incarnate shards. And make an accolade power for defeating all GMs of a side. A good one too, like passive HP or Defense or something. |
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My only concern re: EvilGeko's idea is that there very likely will be a push to defeat the easier to spawn GMs continuously (farm-style)... and all the other ones will be ignored. Especially when Incarnate Salvage is tied to them. Sorta like how you don't see Keyes Island Trial run as often as the other two, and neither of those as often as the BAF.
I love love love the ideas put forth by the OP
I have an ill rad and i love to solo the GMs
As well as help out teams of lower players who are struggling with them
I spend aot of time hunting for them and would rather be able to spawn them by my activity
Also a badge for solo gm kills
And a separate badge for master of GM "x" if there are no deaths on the team
Thanks
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I dunno about Shards, but an Thread or two - or even better, an Astral? Yeah, you'll get people giving these the attention they deserve.
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As they work their way revamping lower level zones and getting to the higher level ones, I hope they rework the GMs into a zone event (a la Praetorian zone events) and they give a nice temp power reward among other things.
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A Praetorian-style event with separate phases that culminates in a GM would be pretty sweet.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
As they work their way revamping lower level zones and getting to the higher level ones, I hope they rework the GMs into a zone event (a la Praetorian zone events) and they give a nice temp power reward among other things.
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And here I was expecting suggestions along the lines of "Sally needs a boyfriend" or "Find Lusca a cute squid to wrap those tentacles around".
Joking aside, yes, something to make GMs more desirable, in a balanced way, would be good. I actually like the thought of them dropping a shard (I think more would be too exploitable) for Alpha-unlocked toons. A guaranteed way to get shards? Even very slowly? Yes, please.
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I could get behind this, but I wonder if it would also be possible to code it so that the rare salvage and recipe roll tables would pool all level ranges together? Like say you're a level fifty, you beat Jack-in-Irons, and instead of just a level fifty rare recipe you could get a level 30 rare recipe?|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Just have them drop:
1) Rare Salvage (100% chance); 2) Rare Invention recipe (50% chance); 3) Two Incarnate shards. And make an accolade power for defeating all GMs of a side. A good one too, like passive HP or Defense or something. |
Also, I there's a lot of +HP and +End accolades, I'd lean towards a small, passive, +res and +defense, possibly working a bit similar to eye of the magus/demonic aura. (As in "Resistance/Defense to all but Psionics.")
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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With some exceptions, I completely agree. |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
A Praetorian-style event with separate phases that culminates in a GM would be pretty sweet.
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Some GMs - Lusca, Deathsurge, and the Croatoan Monsters, off the top of my head - I think the event should begin with the GM encounter, and develop from there.
In some cases, I can even easily see how to branch the event...
For example, the Ghost of Scrapyard.
When the strike begins, in addition to the normal Scrapyarders on the streets, a large group shows up in front of the Hell Forge (or whatever it's really called.) There, they are facing off against Cage Security.
Here, the players are faced with a choice:
1) Break the Strike - defeat X number of Scrapyarders.
2) Start a Riot - defeat X number of Cage Security.
The first path would involve defeating continuous waves of Scrapyarders, (with some piddling help from Cage Security forces) until you finally take out a certain number of Foreman enemies (and possibly take out the Sea Witch along the way), which triggers the final phase, as the Ghost of Scrapyard shows up to crush your heads.
The second path lets the Scrapyarders invade the Hell Forge. While Cage Security is forced to deal with the riot, the 'allows the players' to sneak into a Cage warehouse and liberate a large quantity of the Red Coral Cage has dug up. Of course, the player's aren't the only ones trying to take advantage of the situation... they will have to deal with not only Scrapyarders and Cage Security, but Slag Golems, CoT, Coralax, and maybe Freakshow as well. This path either results in another encounter with the Ghost of Scrapyard, or in facing off against several 3-4 EB level enemies at one time.
Both paths should result in a reward table, possibly with separate badges for both paths. (And, if the Ghost of Scrapyard can be faced in both situations, these should not include Hammer Down.) At least one reward should be incarnate salvage (probably 2-5 shards?) but that one would obviously be locked to level 50s. (And probably can only be rewarded once every 20 hours.)
Another reward could be the Ghost's 'Spectral Hammer' (I know, he doesn't seem to actually wield a hammer, but go with it...) temp power. It would basically be like the Gabriel's Hammer power, but would do heavy Smashing/Negative Energy damage, instead.
That's just my thoughts on how to update that one event, though. I hope the Devs do consider revamping the GMs - and all other Zone events, for that matter - when they get around to touching up the old zones.
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I really think some of them don't spawn enough if you ask me. I certainly wouldn't want the spawn timers to be increased. Would like to see new gms added to each and every zone though.
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Eh, I think that'd be too much. One per three, perhaps. Mix in with events or whatnot (like the steel canyon fires) or something else specific and thematic to the zone.
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Originally Posted by Noyjitat
Would like to see new gms added to each and every zone though.
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Originally Posted by jackattack
I've been away for awhile, and one of the biggest changes I've seen since coming back is that Giant Monsters don't seem to get any attention at all. Lusca wouldn't've lasted ten minutes before I left, and now she is little more than an occasional decoration in the harbor.
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| thoughts? |
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| 1. Create new badges for defeating (some of the) GMs multiple times. This doesn't really work with the Ghost Ship, and let's leave poor Sally alone, but is perfect for Jurasik or Kraken. |
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| 2. Create an achievement badge for defeating all of the GMs, and an accolade for defeating all of the GMs multiple times per the new badges. (Sorry if this already exists.) |
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| 3. Reduce GM availability and/or link GM spawn to activity in a zone. If the GMs appear less often, then heroes who want to fight them will come running when they appear. If the GMs appear when there are at least X heroes in the zone, it will be more convenient for the heroes to stop and defeat the GMs. |
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| 4. When a hero has defeated a GM multiple times, award a temporary power (at the end of an arc or mission or by talking to a contact) that will allow the hero to solo against that GM. The temporary power should be medium to close range, should be about as effective as the fire extinguisher temp, and should disappear when the GM is defeated (and another badge awarded for soloing the GM). For example, Jack in Irons might be done in with a mystical tranquilizer dart, while Babbage might be vulnerable to nanobots or a rust ray. |
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| 5. Create new ways to fight GMs, which require the (first) badge to access. Create instanced missions where heroes can control a giant robot (or grow to giant size themselves) to fight GMs one on one, or where teams can fight GMs in new/destructible environments, or (at the end of an arc?) where everyone on a team controls a giant robot (or grows to giant size) and fights several monsters at once. |
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| 6. Tweak the monsters so they do something new, unique, and fun. Give Lusca the power to throw a hero across the harbor. Let Jurasik stomp a hero into a hero-shaped depression in the ground. Make Pumpkin-Guy turn give a hero pumpkin head for ten minutes. Make it something that only happens to one hero per minute, and award a badge. Some players will start fighting GMs again just for the chance to see or experience the new GM power. |
No idea if they will ever do anything about it but I hope most of your suggestions find their way into the game.
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Salvage, recipe, and other drops is a great idea and I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of it.
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The comment about size restrictions not allowing giant robots or giant heroes: Don't grow the hero, shrink the world. In an instanced mission space, miniature buildings and hero-sized monsters would generate the same effect.
Eh, just have 'em drop 100 Paragon Points per defeat and you'll be swimming in GM hunting parties in no time.
I've been away for awhile, and one of the biggest changes I've seen since coming back is that Giant Monsters don't seem to get any attention at all. Lusca wouldn't've lasted ten minutes before I left, and now she is little more than an occasional decoration in the harbor.
So, how to make GMs relevant again?
1. Create new badges for defeating (some of the) GMs multiple times. This doesn't really work with the Ghost Ship, and let's leave poor Sally alone, but is perfect for Jurasik or Kraken.
2. Create an achievement badge for defeating all of the GMs, and an accolade for defeating all of the GMs multiple times per the new badges. (Sorry if this already exists.)
3. Reduce GM availability and/or link GM spawn to activity in a zone. If the GMs appear less often, then heroes who want to fight them will come running when they appear. If the GMs appear when there are at least X heroes in the zone, it will be more convenient for the heroes to stop and defeat the GMs.
4. When a hero has defeated a GM multiple times, award a temporary power (at the end of an arc or mission or by talking to a contact) that will allow the hero to solo against that GM. The temporary power should be medium to close range, should be about as effective as the fire extinguisher temp, and should disappear when the GM is defeated (and another badge awarded for soloing the GM). For example, Jack in Irons might be done in with a mystical tranquilizer dart, while Babbage might be vulnerable to nanobots or a rust ray.
5. Create new ways to fight GMs, which require the (first) badge to access. Create instanced missions where heroes can control a giant robot (or grow to giant size themselves) to fight GMs one on one, or where teams can fight GMs in new/destructible environments, or (at the end of an arc?) where everyone on a team controls a giant robot (or grows to giant size) and fights several monsters at once.
6. Tweak the monsters so they do something new, unique, and fun. Give Lusca the power to throw a hero across the harbor. Let Jurasik stomp a hero into a hero-shaped depression in the ground. Make Pumpkin-Guy turn give a hero pumpkin head for ten minutes. Make it something that only happens to one hero per minute, and award a badge. Some players will start fighting GMs again just for the chance to see or experience the new GM power.
I'm not a game designer/developer, but I think the first three would require minimal effort to brainstorm and implement. The last three are a lot more ambitious, but I think they would be a lot of fun.
Thoughts?