May we please have more than 1 Alpha-type power?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-11 18:36 in Suggestions and Ideas
I'd like it. I haven't really bothered with much of the incarnate stuff beyond alpha because nothing else really feels right for most of my characters.
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All my characters
Eh. My reactions are:
1. We have the IO system,
2. You can slot the powers and not use them (going just for a level shift to show you "getting stronger,") and
3. So far, other than judgement perhaps looking "over the top," what's the problem with the others? Make up your own explanation. *shrug*
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How do you know Omega isn't exactly that? |
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
To that end, is it feasible to have an alternate Incarnate track which would allow the slotting of the four current Alpha-level powers? Perhaps the alternate track could allow the slotting of Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta powers, as well as another "behind the scenes" power like the To-Hit Interface.
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I suspect that Omega is going to be very similar in function to Alpha. It would round things out nicely.
We won't know for a while, but don't count it out yet.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Bill: IOs do not give Incarnate-level power and they take up as many as six slots in order to get the IO and set bonus effects.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Eh. My reactions are:
1. We have the IO system, 2. You can slot the powers and not use them (going just for a level shift to show you "getting stronger,") and 3. So far, other than judgement perhaps looking "over the top," what's the problem with the others? Make up your own explanation. *shrug* |
In addition, some people don't want to set foot in an Incarnate Trial, so grinding for the present super-powered post-Alpha enhancers would likely not appeal to them.
On the other hand, some of those people might feel more comfortable playing through normal content to accrue the Shards, Components, and Notices they need to craft the Alpha powers. For some of *those* people, that would fit in very nicely with their character concept.
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Leagues pretty much suck for me most of the time. Horrible lag and having to deal with some players makes it un-worth it. I would love to be able to slot more powers made with shards which can be gathered solo, rather than having to deal with Leagues Trials for threads.
Until we finally get solo trials, this idea has my full support!
Then don't become an Incarnate, That way You stay normal and Plain. If my Natural Hero had a chance save Millions just by becoming an Incarnate. I bet he would become one, I am sure Many other Natural Theme Heroes would do the same. Hmm What if the Well of Furies is a Natural Force of Power, What If it's Origins isn't Magical, Mutation, Science or Technology then what else could it be but a Natural Source of Power. I could be wrong and Well that make you into an incarnate is a Different origin all together.
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Yeah I feel that you might be right, Another Enhancement Power to Balance the whole incarnate System together.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
How do you know Omega isn't exactly that?
I suspect that Omega is going to be very similar in function to Alpha. It would round things out nicely. We won't know for a while, but don't count it out yet. |
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
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You can't eat your cake and have it, too. If your characters are supposed to be street-level power, then they have no business chasing after godlike power, and if they're chasing after godlike power, then that's what they'll get.|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Bill: IOs do not give Incarnate-level power and they take up as many as six slots in order to get the IO and set bonus effects.
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Now, of course, that's not to say I don't want to see less elemental-looking, energy-type Incarnate powers. I do. I'd LOOOVE to see a Judgement power that's a ground punch or a large-scale sword slash. However, I still expect an Incarnate character's powers to behave like those of an actual demigod - even when they don't shoot various flavours of lightning, they should still look the part of a demigod.
City of Heroes has never been very applicable to the Spider-Mab/Daredevil type character past about level 40. After then, you end up arm-wrestling gods, giving noogies to giant robots, fighting off hordes of slobering monsters by yourself and more. You're quite a ways past brass knickles and billy clubs.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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GreenFlame and Samuel_Tow: A character like Batman is an Incarnate as well, albeit a different kind of Incarnate than Superman would be. Batman is the Human Potential Incarnate, and he *would* have the four Alpha-level abilities as well as the To-Hit Interface were he in the City of ... universe.
He has fought both street-level thugs and supernatural beings and been present at some very cosmic events.
To be Incarnate is to be a certain concept epitomized and does *not* require that someone have demigod-level abilties.
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Suffice it to say, then, that Batman is my least favourite character of all time, and regardless of what DC may claim, he has no place rubbing shoulders with gods. What's more, City of Heroes doesn't really allow for defeating anything if you had a week to plan, partially because it rarely gives you a week's notice and partially because our characters are never allowed to plan or use strategy. Almost every mission in City of Heroes consists of going to a place and beating an enemy into a greasy spot in stand-up combat with the same powers we use on every other enemy.|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
A character like Batman is an Incarnate as well, albeit a different kind of Incarnate than Superman would be. Batman is the Human Potential Incarnate, and he *would* have the four Alpha-level abilities as well as the To-Hit Interface were he in the City of ... universe.
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If Batman were a City of Heroes characters and he had to fight the Kronos Titan, he'd be forced to punch and kick it repeatedly until it went down. That's the extent to which the powers system permits planning and trickery.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That's not what an Incarnate is, not in this game anyway. An Incarnate is someone who has specifically unlocked powers from the Well of the Furies. Specifically, a god.
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Originally Posted by Amerikatt
GreenFlame and Samuel_Tow: A character like Batman is an Incarnate as well, albeit a different kind of Incarnate than Superman would be. Batman is the Human Potential Incarnate, and he *would* have the four Alpha-level abilities as well as the To-Hit Interface were he in the City of ... universe.
He has fought both street-level thugs and supernatural beings and been present at some very cosmic events. To be Incarnate is to be a certain concept epitomized and does *not* require that someone have demigod-level abilties. |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
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Sam and Gob: How are your pessimistic posts germane to the discussion of our characters having the opportunity to have multiple Alpha-class powers?
Your posts belong in a different sort of thread. Please restrict your discussions to the topic at hand.
Thanks!
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They were responding to your post, therefore it is germane. Being an Incarnate in this game has a specific definition: you have gained the powers of a demi-god through the Well of the Furies. Batman would in no way, shape, or form be an Incarnate in this universe. He's very fit, but not an Incarnate.|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Sam and Gob: How are your pessimistic posts germane to the discussion of our characters having the opportunity to have multiple Alpha-class powers?
Your posts belong in a different sort of thread. Please restrict your discussions to the topic at hand. Thanks! |
The Devs have set up the Incarnate powers to at least be semi-balanced with each other. Allowing for people to gain four alpha slots basically, instead of the other options, would be a headache for them.
Like the others, I see no reason for this. If you don't want your character to have demi-god like abilities, don't chase them. But there's no reason to give you all four alpha abilities just because you don't like the others for your character with a very narrow concept. You don't need to get them at all, and doing so would break your concept, so just don't get them.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
If you want to play X character, why are you pursuing something that is mutually exclusive with the character concept? Either you have the unstoppable power of a pseudodeific creature, or you are a street-level dude. Hell, why are you AT level fifty if you want to be a street fighty dude? Past level 35 the enemies you face and the challenges presented are beyond anything street-fighty-dude should be capable of unless he begins to become something else than a street-fighty-dude.
Either your concept is more important, or your in-game efficiency at killing is more important. These two are mutually exclusive, and will remain mutually exclusive no matter what developer decisions are made, short of radically changing the game to weaken everyone around you so that you can still be street-fighty-dude and not get upset about not being at the same level of power as Baron Deus von Machina and his dimension-swallowing Omnispecs.
Either you want godlike power or you don't. This is your problem to resolve, not the developers.
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This.|
Originally Posted by uberschveinen
Either you want godlike power or you don't. This is your problem to resolve, not the developers.
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If you seriously cannot rationalize a "Human Potential Incarnate" (whatever that garbage means) throwing out a Judgement power, how can you rationalize said hero routinely survive being burned, shot, sliced, dosed with radiation, exploded, beam rifled, and every other thing that would kill even the best humanity has to offer?
If you made it to level 50, your character isn't a mere human. Get over it, or turn XP gain off at level 1 when you can still survive bullets. It's pretendy fun time games.
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So you want the power with no sacrifices?|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Bill: IOs do not give Incarnate-level power and they take up as many as six slots in order to get the IO and set bonus effects.
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If you don't want "incarnate-level power," what do you want? Because Alpha, other than the level shift, basically gives an SO or high level common IO's boost across the board, with some effect from ED. To get that, you sacrifice some time to run either a trial or the arc, and grind away to get shards.
And you can certainly meet or exceed what Alpha could give you in various cases - including areas that Alpha can't meet at this time, such as defense in characters with little to no defensive potential in their powers - using set IOs.
It's a choice in what you want to sacrifice.
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| In addition, some people don't want to set foot in an Incarnate Trial, so grinding for the present super-powered post-Alpha enhancers would likely not appeal to them. |
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| On the other hand, some of those people might feel more comfortable playing through normal content to accrue the Shards, Components, and Notices they need to craft the Alpha powers. For some of *those* people, that would fit in very nicely with their character concept. |
And how do the other powers not mesh with a concept? Ignore the funky glow around the Lore pets, pick a robot (or Longbow) and viola, you've got a perfectly "natural human" character that can summon some help... or do you skip things like the Backup Radio and the like? You can explain judgement powers by way of an invention or device. Interface as a new technique you've learned. And Destiny... well, you use inspirations, right? Call it a very big one.
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lol wut
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Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Human Potential Incarnate
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Well put, Never thought About batman being like that, I guess in a way batman is a Human Incarnate.
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Originally Posted by Amerikatt
GreenFlame and Samuel_Tow: A character like Batman is an Incarnate as well, albeit a different kind of Incarnate than Superman would be. Batman is the Human Potential Incarnate, and he *would* have the four Alpha-level abilities as well as the To-Hit Interface were he in the City of ... universe.
He has fought both street-level thugs and supernatural beings and been present at some very cosmic events. To be Incarnate is to be a certain concept epitomized and does *not* require that someone have demigod-level abilties. |
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
Batman isn't an incarnate.
Street Level Heroes wouldn't be incarnates.
Use the Incarnate Powers OOCly. I don't consider my main an incarnate per se. I consider her one who has the ability to take on incarnate level characters and manage to win. That said, I consider her on the level of such heroes as Spider-Man.
I wouldn't be against some tech options with some of the powers. Dual Pistol/Assault Rifle/Archery/Sword/Dual Blade options for Judgement would be awesome!
Maybe have the melee weapons be much smaller PBAOEs but make up for it by doing more damage.
Not that it's hard to turn some of those Judgement powers into tech options now. Fire Judgement can easily be a Flame Thrower style power in one's gloves/gauntlets. Ion could be a massive powered taser.
[Edit] And no where does it say one has to be an incarnate to be at cosmic level events. Shadow Shard would be cosmic level, and being an incarnate isn't required.
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Solution 1:
To respond to your Batman reference: Yes, I would agree that Batman is perhaps capable of matching Incarnate abilities, but that is due to his gadget strategy, or in other words what he brings with him to a particular fight. To emulate this, why not craft all of the passive Incarnate powers (i.e. 1 from each Alpha tree and 1 from each Interface tree). Then, you can slot a certain ability prior to jumping into a mission or particular mob. For example: slotting a Musculature Alpha and Reactive Interface might be akin to Batman bringing one of his battle suits to a fight.
Solution 2:
Slot the Alpha and/or Interface that works best for your character's concept. For example, on my Archery/Devices blaster, I find the idea of "waiting for my arrows and gadgets to recharge" to be ridiculous; I should be able to fire off blazing arrows and smoke grenades as frequently as I want. So, when he gets to 50, he will be slotting the Spiritual Alpha to accommodate that. Or as another example: My SS/Shield Tanker is supposed to be scientifically engineered as a super soldier, with very high endurance, so he has taken the Cardiac Alpha Tree to better emulate his tireless nature.
Unfortunately for some, the Devs have designed the Incarnate progression path a certain way, and have tied it to the lore in a certain way. The best you can do is ignore the lore and write your own power justification as best you can. Sure, this is the idea forum and you are welcome to pitch as many as you like, but in the mean time, I say use what ya got.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
I have 20 buck riding that the omega is pick another alpha
Or 4 new alpha like options with the secondary power boost being the primary switcheroo
I too have a low level all natural street brawler with xp turned off at lvl 9 and i patrol kings row and street sweep for role playing fun
I am also an ER doctor
And the abuse a lvl chatacter can survive is beyond what any level of natural training could ever acheive
Plus running faster than cars without ever tiring for miles and miles
Basically sprint unenhanced is like running a 5 sec 100 meter dash
Basically twice the speed of the current wod record holder
Yeah anyhting beyond level 1 is beyond natural
But hey its all pretendy, alter ego boosting fun
Laserblitz
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If you see a rainbow costume or named "Emcc" it is me
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^This|
Originally Posted by Laserblitz_Emcc
I have 20 buck riding that the omega is pick another alpha
Or 4 new alpha like options with the secondary power boost being the primary switcheroo I too have a low level all natural street brawler with xp turned off at lvl 9 and i patrol kings row and street sweep for role playing fun I am also an ER doctor And the abuse a lvl chatacter can survive is beyond what any level of natural training could ever acheive Plus running faster than cars without ever tiring for miles and miles Basically sprint unenhanced is like running a 5 sec 100 meter dash Basically twice the speed of the current wod record holder Yeah anyhting beyond level 1 is beyond natural But hey its all pretendy, alter ego boosting fun |
Except that I really hope Omega is something WAY more impressive. I love the Alpha slot, don't get me wrong. But, frankly, Omega should be something along the lines of a fully customised signature power. Heck, we've had a thread about that *stickied* for god knows how many years now.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I agree that Omega better be more than an alpha, but I personally would like to see it as another persistent effect similar to alpha/interface. I'm running out of tray space on a lot of characters for more clicky thingies. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I really hope Omega is something WAY more impressive [than the Alpha slot]. I love the Alpha slot, don't get me wrong. But, frankly, Omega should be something along the lines of a fully customised signature power.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Heck, we've had a thread about that *stickied* for god knows how many years now.
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Where to now?
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The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Hah, Touche |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I agree that Omega better be more than an alpha, but I personally would like to see it as another persistent effect similar to alpha/interface. I'm running out of tray space on a lot of characters for more clicky thingies.
Yeah, well, the "Placate is Bugged" thread has been stickied since 2006. |
fact f'today, too. Even so, a fully customised Omega power trumps that as well. Because surely it could be either a clicky attack/buff/debuff OR a passive boost?
Given the years of it being suggested, no one can argue there hasn't been time to consider it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Not everyone has (or wants) powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men and women!
Some characters are street-level crimebusters and it makes sense for them to have abilities which reflect their intense drive toward realizing the pinnacle of their personal development.
To that end, is it feasible to have an alternate Incarnate track which would allow the slotting of the four current Alpha-level powers? Perhaps the alternate track could allow the slotting of Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta powers, as well as another "behind the scenes" power like the To-Hit Interface.
What do you all think?
Clear skies!
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