Local_Man

The -speed cap is 90%.

If you have never played a controller before, I generally don't recommend Gravity . . . it is not exactly the best control set. It has poor AoE control since Wormhole is really a situational power. It has good single target damage . . . as long as you have a long time to apply it . . . on teams, Gravity is really lacking.

I played my Grav/Storm mostly solo and finally got him up to 50. I enjoyed the character, but don't plan on doing another Gravity Controller unless Traps is proliferated.

It is not a whole lot . . . because I don't really focus on Defense. Most of the time, I don't need it since PA and Phanty are drawing the aggro. I'm in that odd camp who feels that most Controllers, and especially Illusion controllers, don't need to focus on Defense. I have the shield because it is a nice place for a Luck of the Gambler set, and because often teammates have one power or another that stacks defense up to significant levels as long as I have a base. So the Ice Shield provides that base without having to re-slot everything for capped defense.

Frankly, I don't mind faceplanting every now and then. When you have too much defense, the game gets a bit boring with no risk. Without huge amounts of defense, I have to be careful of dangerous situations and use strategy. That part is fun to me.

The goal with an Illusion controller is to get enough Recharge to get (or get as close as possible to) Perma-PA. You need something over 203% Recharge. Hasten takes care of 70%, but you have to make up the rest from sets. An Ill/Rad gets an extra 30% from AM, but Ill/Cold doesn't get that. So, you can certainly get a lot of recharge from 5 LotG Recharge and other IO sets, but it will be difficult (or impossible) to get fully to Perma-PA without using purple sets. You run into the limitations created by the "Rule of 5."

Start out with the purple confuse set, Coercive Persuation. It is usually the second cheapest purple set (after the sleep set). Not only do you get 10% Recharge for 5, but you also free up a slot for another 6.25% Recharge set in another power. Without any other purples, you can get close to Perma-PA, especially with the Recharge boosts from Incarnate powers.

Freezing Rain and Sleet both do very, very small amounts of damage . . . although you see a bunch of "-1" on the screen, those are actually about 0.3 damage. It is not worth slotting damage because even doubled, the 0.3 would only be 0.6.

I recently slotted Sleet in my Illusion/Cold with 2 Recharge and the Achilles Heel Resist Debuff proc, Posi Blast proc, Lady Grey proc and Impeaded Swiftness proc. It adds a fair amount of damage over a large area. Procs add a LOT more damage than slotting the power for damage.

Didn't need fixing -- Notice that I said, "To me, . . . "

And furthermore I don't agree. It is quite easy to play a MM by buffing up the pets, setting them on Bodyguard, and then aggro stuff to let the pets wipe them out. I agree Warshades are fun and more strategic than the usual damage AT, but once you get to high levels, there's a lot of "Eclipse-Mire-kill stuff."

I have to echo the many folks who oppose lumping several ATs together. I spend a lot of time on the Controller forums. Controllers don't play anything like Defenders or Corrupters. Controllers don't play anything like Dominators. Controllers are unique, and it would only be confusing to lump them in with others. And Masterminds are so different than any other AT that it would be confusing to combine them with any other group.

I could maybe see putting Corrupters and Defenders together. I could see putting Brutes and Scrappers together, but Tanks have a different focus than Brutes and Scrappers. All the other ATs are too unique to be lumped in together.

To further illustrate why Controllers are unique:


You have Controllers in three categories! Controllers fit into three different categories . . . but not all of them, as Mind Controllers have no pets. Where the heck are folks supposed to go for advice on Controllers under this suggestion? Three different forums?

The problem with your testing criteria is that killing minions and lieutenants is NOT a trivial activity in the game. Minions and lieutenants make up the vast majority of the foes you deal with. Your testing was designed to ignore one of Illusion's main strengths, Illusory Damage. I consider this to be similar to testing on foes who have Fire Resistance . . . obviously, Fire Control would suffer in that case. By choosing only bosses with high hit points, your test is excluding Illusory damage and thus removing a substantial amount of Illusion's damage.

There were other problems with your testing. Your slotting for PA was 3 Recharge, 2 Damage and NO ACCURACY. Standard SO slotting would be to 6 slot it with 3 Recharge, 2 Damage, 1 Accuracy . . . but that is aimed for a very small improvement on Recharge over damage. I seem to recall someone a long time ago tested PA with different slotting, and his finding were that 2 Recharge, 3 Damage, 1 Acc was optimal for maximizing damage. On the other hand, PA are often distracted away from the boss by other foes (those trivial minions and lieutenants), so by excluding the low level foes, you are actually increasing the damage done by PA to some degree. (This is one of several reasons I recommend killing the minions and lieutenants first for Illusion controllers -- so PA will focus on the tougher foes. It is also another reason why Illusion's ability to kill them quickly is not "trivial.")

I haven't tried to do my own testing for several reasons . . . I wouldn't be able to reproduce your specific tests since I don't have access to every detail you used to create your tests. Also, frankly, I find testing to be tedious. I do enough tedious stuff at work. But just because I haven't spent hours and hours creating my own test that would allow for Illusory damage to have an effect does not mean that my criticism is invalid. I pointed out a flaw in your tests which very likely skewed the results. You refuse to acknowledge my point by calling it "trivial" even though the huge majority of the game involves killing minions and lieutenants.

And Illusion kills those low level foes much faster than most controllers. Mind and Gravity have substantial single-target damage, but their attack chains are slower. Fire and Plant are great at killing larger spawns, but take just about the same amount of time to kill small groups of 2 minion, 1 Lieutenant as a large group and have problems with ambushes. I bet that if a valid form of testing could be found for killing off minions and lieutenants, Illusion would be shown to kill those kinds of small groups much faster than the low damage controllers (Ice, Earth and Electric), and probably faster than most or maybe all of the others.

You shouldn't make a general conclusion based upon a limited test that skews the results against one of your test subjects.

You have a few options depending upon what you want for bonuses. If you have room for a 6.25% Recharge, then I suggest 4 Expediant Reinforcement, including the 10% Resist proc, the Sovereign Right 10% Resist proc and then you have a few options for that last slot . . . an Acc/Dam Hami-O will cap damage and give better Acc. However, you could go with an Acc/Dam/End from Blood Mandate.

Or you could go with 4 purple Soulbound and the two procs if you want Regen and a 4% damage bonus.

Personally, I don't worry about Rocky's endurance. He's more important as a tank. I've never tested whether EndRdx slotted in the power affects his attacks.

Illusion/Kinetics is a combo of two great sets . . . that have some synergy problems together. Illusion is a great primary that is strong on single target damage and control through distraction. Kinetics, of course, is wonderful for buffing the damage done by yourself and your team. One big benefit is Siphon Speed. As long as you have foes to siphon from, Siphon Speed helps the Recharge on Phantom Army -- and PA is the most important power in Illusion. By stacking Siphon Speed you can get a larger Recharge buff than Radiation's AM.

However, Illusion is really best as a ranged set. Phantom Army draw the aggro of the foes so that the foes use their attacks, including AoE attacks, on PA. As long as the Illusionist is at range, the AoE's are not a problem. Illusion does have one PB AoE control power (Flash), but everything else is ranged. Additionally, Illusion's Tier 9 pet, Phantasm, loves to knockback any foes who get near "the master." This can be a problem in melee, but works great from range.

Kinetics, on the other hand, pushes you into melee to receive the benefits of Transfusion, Transference and Fulcrum Shift. Going into melee exposes you to the AoE attacks of the foes and makes Phantasm a constant source of frustration -- just at you choose a nearby foe for Transfusion or Transference, Phanty sends that foe flying back just as you hit the powers so that the buff completely misses you. Some Ill/Kins simply don't use Phantasm most of the time due to this problem. Also, PA cannot be buffed by anything other than enhancements in the power itself, so they will miss out on your great Damage buffs from Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift, and the other great buffs from Speed Boost and ID. Phantasm can benefit from these buffs . . . but getting Phanty close enough to get Fulcrum Shift can be a huge problem when Phanty keeps knocking foes back.

Other secondaries have Resistance and/or Defense debuffs to help PA do more damage or hit more often. Kinetics lacks these important debuffs that can be found in Rad, TA, Cold, Time, Thermal, and even Sonic and Poison.

Still, many folks love the combo of Illusion and Kinetics. Any Illusion Controller can solo decently and can contribute to teams. Any well-played */Kinetics character will provide a huge benefit to teams. In my opinion, Illusion works best with Rad, TA, Storm, Cold and Time. Illusion/Emp is good if you want a battlefield healer, but Emp also lacks the debuffs. Kinetics works best with primaries that work best in or near melee like Fire, Ice, Elec, Plant. Fire and Plant in particular are good due to a lot of AoE damage which, when buffed by Fulcrum Shift, become huge.

(I have an Ill/Kin, but he is kind of stalled because I generally grab one of my other Illusion controllers or one of my other */Kinetics controllers when I want to play those sets. I have Ill/Rad, Ill/Storm, Ill/TA and Ill/Cold, Plant/Kin all at 50, with my Fire/Kin at 45.)

Take a look at my Ill/Rad guide, linked in my sig. It has a strategy section about Choosing Your Anchor.

Electric is a low damage controller, but it certainly lets you be in melee. However, you really don't feel the full benefit of Choking Cloud until fairly late in the build, so at level 10, you really don't know how good it can be. Electric/Time should be a good combo for Draining/Debuffing/Slowing/Sleeping/Confusing.

Ice/Time might also be a good combo with both toggles coming early, but again with low damage and tough on endurance.

There will probably be as many opinions as there are posts. Everyone has their favorites, and quite a few controllers would work very well for the purposes you indicated.

Deacon gave a short summary of a few sets, but I'm not sure there was enough information there. I'll give you my somewhat more longwinded version:

Time is a brand new secondary, and while many people have opinions that it should be very powerful, only a few people in the Beta have played it a bunch, and they tend to be the "power players." It certainly has some appeal for a melee-oriented set with the large ToHit Debuff toggle. And it has some ally-only powers, an odd heal and some other neat stuff. Most of us are only guessing on whether it has great synergy with the control sets.

Fire Control: The key powers are -- Char, Fire Cages, Hot Feet, Flashfire, Cinders and Fire Imps. Ring of Fire, Smoke and Bonfire are optional depending upon your playstyle. Personally, I like Bonfire and have found the others skippable. Fire is the highest damage controller, and is a set that puts you in melee in order to take advantage of Hot Feet. It relies heavily on Flashfire's stun, so while that is recharging, you may have a problem with new foes. It is an offensive, more aggressive controller that fits many people's playstyle. Fire pairs wonderfully with Kinetics and Radiation. (I have two Fire/Rads at 50 and a Fire/Kin at 45.) Fire/Storm is very powerful but one of the most endurance draining builds in the game. Fire/Time looks interesting on paper, but I don't have experience with it. With your team of New player Blasters and Scrappers? I would suggest something less offensive as they should be providing the offense. Your goal should be to let your buddies have fun doing what they do best, rather than stealing the damage from them.

Earth Control is one of my favorites -- I wrote a guide on Earth/Rad, and also have an Earth/Storm at 50 as one of my favorite characters. Earth is the best ranged AoE control set in the game, but trades that great AoE control for low damage. The only optional powers are Stone Prison and Salt Crystals. One of the best parts of Earth Control is not only the great AoE control, but also the Defense Debuff helps teammates hit more reliably with less worry about slotting heavily for accuracy. Use Quicksand a LOT, for both the slow and Defense Debuff. There are three main AoE control options -- Stalagmites+Stone Cages (+Quicksand), Earthquake (+Quicksand), and Volcanic Gasses (+Quicksand). Those are three different types of AoE control, so you can handle any situation. Earth goes very well with Radiation and Storm, and goes pretty well with the other secondaries, too. For a team of newbie Blasters and Scrappers, Earth Control would be outstanding. Earth can keep groups in one place, controlled, while teammates beat up on them. It is also visually impressive. The pet will also fill a gap in your team make-up, as Rocky can act as a tank for your little group.

Plant is a popular control set for good reason. It has the second highest damage after Fire, and has better control that becomes available in low levels. It is easier to level up than a Fire Controller. However, it is a bit of a "one-trick pony" that relies heavily on Seeds of Confusion. Once you have thrown the Seeds cone, you have a lack of control until Seeds recharges. The damage comes from a combination of Roots (The AoE Immob does twice the damage of the AoE Immob in other control sets.) and Carrion Creepers, a unique power that does damage, some control and some distraction and follows you around a bit. Visually, Plant is fun and has the most fun looking pet. For a team of newbie Blasters and Scrappers? I would rank it better than Fire, but not better than Earth. In your situation of newbie players playing offensive characters, you need more control than offense. Plant does great on the initial group, but until you can load up on a lot of Recharge, you may have to wait around for Seeds to Recharge.

Illusion is my favorite control set, and it would work well for your team . . . once you hit 18. Your team is lacking a Tank, and Illusion's Phantom Army would provide that. My favorite character in the game is my Ill/Rad, with Ill/Cold and Ill/Storm pretty close. Illusion is lacking in AoE control, however, so while it would work well, it may not be ideal for your little group. Illusion is ideal as a second controller on a team, however.

Ice Control would work well, but it is a low damage, melee-oriented set. Mind has lots of AoE control, but not until late in the build. Electric provides good AoE control with low damage . . . but lots of Damage over Time is a problem for Electric Control -- it would depend upon the powersets of your teammates to determine if Electric would be a great set for you. Gravity? It has pretty poor AoE control -- better as a solo controller in my opinion.

As for Secondaries other than Time, Rad works with everything, is very flexible and provides a lot of benefits for teams as well as solo. Kinetics mostly puts you in melee and is very, very busy to play, but will substantially help the team kill stuff faster. Kinetics is very offensive-focused, and lacks much in the defensive end. Storm is a great and variable set of powers, as well as being visually impressive. It is a challenge, however, to learn how to limit the knockback and use it to benefit the team -- a badly played Stormie is more of a liability than a help because he can scatter foes all over the place. Other secondaries have their benefits . . . Therm is a nice combo of buffs and debuffs with heals and Resistance Shields. Cold adds a lot of Defense and Resistance Debuffs -- it is late blooming but very powerful for taking down tough targets. Empathy is healing and buffs, but no defense or debuffs. Sonic and FF are the least used secondaries for good reason, but they have their uses.

For your team? I would consider an Earth/Rad first. Rad provides a heal, team buffs and a rez. Earth/Storm is a very good choice as long as you can learn how to control the knockback, but its heal is weak, no team buffs and it has no rez power (which might not be a problem for higher level players, but will definitely be useful for a team of newbies). Earth/Time looks like fun, but mine is pretty low level so far. (I rolled up both Ill/Time and Earth/Time, and I may try a Fire/Time.)